---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
Visit http://www.northernbrewer.com  to show your appreciation!
               Or call them at 1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********


Contents:
  Nut Brown and smoke (leavitdg)
  RE: A question for you promash masters... ("Doug Hurst")
  ProMash sparge water ("Peed, John")
  Re: beer preservatives (jhandy)
  Re: Efficiency of Color Extraction ("steve.alexander")
  Color Extraction ("A.J deLange")
  Re: beer preservatives (Jim Wilson)


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*           The HBD Logo Store is now open!             *
*            http://www.hbd.org/store.html              *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*  Suppport this service: http://hbd.org/donate.shtml   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*   Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
                  and Spencer Thomas



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:50:36 -0400
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Nut Brown and smoke

Ending a nice trip to Bozeman, Yellowstone and the Tetons,
we stopped in Idaho Falls, and found the Brownstone Rest and
Brewery.  All of the brews were good (to me) but the Nut Brown was
just a little over the top in smoked flavor.  I am guessing that
they did not use Peated malt.  I asked and the brewer was not in, and
the guys in the back suggested that the flavor came from Chocolate malt.
I don't think that is the cause of the smoked flavor.

Anyone know what malt they use for the smoke, and if you have tried it,
do you also think it was a little over the top? I know that this is
a subjective thing, and some don't like smoke at all.  I do, but just a
little bit.

Happy Brewing!
(by the way, if you are ever in Jackson Hole, look up the Snake River
Brewery.  The best that we visited.)

Darrell



Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:41:04 -0500
From: "Doug Hurst" <dougbeer2000 at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: A question for you promash masters...


Joe is aggrivated by Promash's inability to automatically adjust water 
amounts.  I have noticed this as well but simply go to the "water needed" 
section and adjusted manually.

Jeffrey Donvovan runs a discussion board at the Promash website.  You might 
get more tips and suggestions there:

http://www.promash.com/proboard/index.html


Doug Hurst
Chicago, IL
[197.5, 264.8] Apparent Rennerian




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:34:12 -0700
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: ProMash sparge water


Joe asks about ProMash's sparge water calculations.  You need to set the
batch size in the Edit Ingredients window (that's your desired post-boil
kettle volume), set strike water quarts per pound of grain in the Mash
Schedule, then adjust the Sparge Gallons in the Water Needed window
until the After Boil item is equal to the batch size.  For a 60 minute
boil, this works out to the right amount of sparge water (pre-boil
amount is collected about the time the runoff is approaching 1.010).
For longer boils you can just add top-up water (at 1.25 qts/hr boil-off
rate, I add 0.6 gallons for a 90 minute boil).  You can set a default
batch size and the strike water ratio (although it doesn't always seem
to stick), but I don't know any way to automatically dial in the sparge
water.

John Peed
Oak Ridge, TN




Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 19:30:10 -0700
From: jhandy <j.handy at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: beer preservatives

 This is a good reason to stick with homebrew. All kinds of things are 
added to beer. Check out the experiment with Foam Stabilizers here:

Does Budweiser beer contain ... chicken hearts? 
<http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_356b.html>

J Handy


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 01:02:50 -0400
From: "steve.alexander" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Efficiency of Color Extraction

ARRON K. JONES says ... >

>My guess:
>
>It would seem to me that a lot of the variables for color 
>extraction are the same ones we deal with for "extract extraction" 
>(temperature, time, pH, crush, etc.), however, we have a new 
>player, namely, the husk of the grain.  We are no longer dealing 
>with only the kernel, but the husk as well, which provides 
>tannins, among other things, that can add color to beer.  So I 
>would hypothesize that color extraction efficiency is not exactly 
>equal to conversion efficiency.

You didn't go far enough Aaron.   There are a few overlapping factors
for color & extraction, but many more independent or mostly independent
terms. Methods that increasing the color can even decrease extraction
efficiency and visa-versa.

The primary sources of beer color are melanoidin compounds and
phenolic (tannin) compounds, particularly when oxidized.  The phenolic
compounds come both from the grain and the hops.

Typical "colored malt" has the color concentrated in the outer surface
of the malted grain.  It's the "skin" that is colored in caramel or
munich and the interior far less so, so access to the colored
surface is NOT comparable to the slow enzymatic access to the interior
starch.  Extraction efficiency greatly depends on the crush - color
extraction can proceed with no crush at all.

In the mash, low concentration (high water:grist ratio) generally
improves extraction efficiency, but lowers the resulting color.
The lower color is probably because the less concentrated wort has
far less maillard reaction and melanoidin formation than a
concentrated one; but this is also pH and temperature dependent.
Also perhaps less enzymatic oxidation in the less concentrated mash.

Oxidation .- yada-yada - The bottom line is that open boiling and
open mashing in very small (HB size) batches causes very considerable
wort darkening due to phenolic oxidation.   It can be reduced and
even partially reversed with the use of anti-oxidants which do not
impact extraction.

The sparge is interesting too wrt wort color.  I once did an experimental
batch ((OK all my batches are experimental)) of Marzen, and I used
first-runnings for the first 5gal, and a mix of first runnings and
sparging for the second.  *BUT* I adjusted the SG by adding water to
the first-runnings and slightly over-boiling the second.  Both
worts came from the same mash, and had the same SG, but the diluted
first-wort had considerably darker color. The conclusion is that there
is more color per unit extract in first runnings than in spargings -
IOW the color comes out faster than the sugars. So here is another case
where more color and less extract go hand-in-hand. If you sparge less,
you get lower efficiency, but more color per unit extract (and therefore
per gallon).

No - the relationship between color and extract is rather weak even
under normal HB conditions.

As a practical matter I think you should consider the SRMs and quantity
of each grist on your mash bill, and the volume of the resulting beer
when "designing" a color. Including the extraction efficiency in the color
calculation is an error IMO.  Increasing the efficiency, particularly with
a better sparge or a thinner mash, actually DECREASES the color of the
resulting beer !!

Also, if you think beer color matters enough to take any precedence over
flavor in your grist-bill design, then you certainly need another beer.



 -S
 



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 13:54:48 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Color Extraction

The same general principals may apply with extraction of coloring matter 
as apply to the extraction of sugars but there is no reason to suppose 
that the same numbers apply. Furthermore, beer doesn't follow Beer's law 
(that the absorbance at a particular wavelength is proportional to the 
molar concentration of the absorbing substance) so that would throw off 
any practical scheme for calculation of color linearly based on 
quantities. Remember that 60L crystal means that it produced a 60L wort 
using the Congress mash procedure. Your mashing procedure is likely to 
be quite different. What all this means is that about the only way to 
predict mash color is to take careful notes as to how much of what 
produces which degree of color depth using your equipment and methods. 
As an example of the importance of method I've noticed that all my 
recipes are appreciably lighter in color now that I am using steam than 
they used to be when I used gas directly.

A.J.


Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 08:10:35 -0700
From: Jim Wilson <jgwilson at adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: beer preservatives

The CSPI published a little book in 1982 "Chemical Additives in Booze" that
was sprinkled with beer factoids.  Chapter 2 discussed Test-Tube Beer.  6
anti-oxidants were listed; Vitamin C, Sodium Erythorbate, Potassium
Metabisulfate, Sodium Bisulfate, Sodium Hydrosulfite and Sodium
Metabisulfite.  1 anti-microbial preservative was mentioned; heptylparaben.
 The book is a little dated now, but is a good read and can be found in
used book stores.  No affiliation yadayada.

Jim Wilson

                  o           \o
   __o         /\           /
  `\ <>       `\ `>       `\  >
(*)/ (*)    (*)/ (*)    (*)/ (*)

I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle.





Return to table of contents

---