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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Dream Lager (Joe Uknalis)
  Cider Questions (POST)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #501 (September 21, 1990) (Pavel Svitek)
  Kolsch (Jay Hersh)
  Homebrewing in New York City? (Dan Strahs)
  spices/jalapenos considered harmful? / burnt taste in dark beer (Greg Troxel)
  trub rubbing wrong way (cckweiss)
  the dismissal of brewpubs (florianb)
  Lovibond (GARY  27-Sep-1990 1926)
  Germany, Part 3 (Norm Hardy)
  Help a Beginner (Drew Lawson)
  Biology of Taste (mike_schrempp)


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Date:         Thu, 27 Sep 90 08:38:02 EDT
From: Joe Uknalis <UKNALIS at VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Dream Lager


I just tried the first bottle of DREAM LAGER, (last recipie in CJOH)
and while it was very good it seems a bit too hoppy for my other
homebrew tasters.  Has anyone experimented with different kinds of hops
in this particular recipie?  From watching the Beer hunter I am tempted to try
Saaz in the next batch, not a 1/4 pound though...

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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 90 08:06 PDT
From: POST at LIS.llnl.gov
Subject: Cider Questions

Please indulge a fellow homebrewer for a non-beer related fermentation 
question....

I started a five gallon batch of cider on Monday using 5 gals of cider from
the store( hey, it's an experiment!) and a packet of Montrachet wine yeast.
I had a huge head built up by Tuesday afternoon, spewing out the lock like
crazy.  I removed the lock, attached a blowoff, and waited for the head to
drop off, the replaced the lock yesterday.  I still have *active* fermentation,
But.....

I notice a strong sulfury odor when I open the door to the brewfridge.  Do I 
have an infection happening, or is there some strange DMSO or DSM thing with
cider that I am not aware of?  Mind you, I'm not worrying, just a bit concerned.
Luckily, I still have a third of a keg left, so I'm relaxed....

(Ever tried playing golf after a homebrew?  Kionda screws up the coordination
a bit, eh?

john

post@ vaxt.llnl.gov
post@ lis.llnl.gov

Discalimer:  Hey man, I'm on contract!  Who cares what I think?
(  ^^^^^^^  Damn!  Sorry!)

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Date:     Thu, 27 Sep 90 08:24:01 PDT
From: pxs at Iago.Caltech.Edu (Pavel Svitek)
Subject:  Re: Homebrew Digest #501 (September 21, 1990)


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Date: 27 Sep 90 14:16:34 EDT
From: Jay Hersh <75140.350 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Kolsch

Thanks Norm H for the mention of cold conditioning the Kolsch. I made one a 
little while ago, with Ireks Light Extract and Hallertauer, Saaz hops and
the wyeast Bavarian Ale (don't know the # offhand). It came out great full
and smooth. The color was a little too deep due to caramelization of the wort
during the boil but it was very tasty and full bodied. While I didn't cold 
condition I think I may try that, you suggested down to 32F, for how long 
would you recommend??

Thanks  - Jay H

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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 90 18:13:03 EDT
From: Dan Strahs <strahs at murex.bioc.aecom.yu.edu>
Subject: Homebrewing in New York City?

	I'm a hopeful homebrewer, just starting.

	I'm working with another experienced homebrewer, an Asst, Professor
	here at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine.

	He's having trouble getting supplies around here and, as for myself,
	I obviously need to get equiptment.  

	Can someone send me information about supply stores for homebrewers
	in the New York Metropolitan area?

	Does someone have an address/contact person for the Homebrewer's
	guild in New York?  

	Any other information you care to send woule be greatly appreciated.

	Thanks in advance.

							Dan Strahs
						strahs at murex.bioc.aecom.yu.edu



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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 90 16:05:48 EDT
From: Greg Troxel <gdt at allspice.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: spices/jalapenos considered harmful? / burnt taste in dark beer

In general, I prefer porters and stouts.  Recently, though, I have
tasted several beers (including Mass Bay Brewing Company's
experimental dark lager, their "Oktoberfest" beer, Grant's Imperial
Stout, and Yuengling Porter) that have a burnt taste, making them very
unpleasant, and some undrinkable.  I don't mean the normal stout
taste; I have had Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout, Imperial Stout and
many more, and they tasted just fine.  The burnt taste almost reminds
me of the odor of a cigarette left in the bottom of a Coke can, but I
can't descibe it any better than that.  I noticed this taste in the
Yuengling Porter last night after I had eaten very spicy Texas
barbeque and a few jalapeno peppers (from which I perceived no ill
effects).  A friend who had eaten at the same restaurant who normally
likes Yuengling Porter noticed a taste in the porter that he described
similarly.  Does anyone know of any relationship between eating
particular spices/peppers and significant alterations in beer tastes,
or any other explanations for what I have observed?

Greg Troxel, N1DAM		  <gdt at allspice.lcs.mit.edu>
MIT Laboratory for Computer Science		I'm the NRA.



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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 90 13:49:04 -0700
From: cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu
Subject: trub rubbing wrong way


After the recent traffic on cold breaks and racking off the trub, I figured,
"What the hell" and tried it last night. It's clear that I have a basic
misunderstanding of the process, and I was hoping one of you veteran
trub rackers (Yep, sonny, I remember the great trub gobbet of '09) could
help me out.

Here's what I did:

Boiled 7lbs of dark syrup extract with 4 oz. peeled grated ginger and 2 oz.
Cascade hops for 45 minutes. Hops were in a hop bag. Added 1 tsp. Irish Moss,
continued boil for 10 minutes. Added 1 oz. Kent Goldings finishing hops, also
in a hop bag, and boiled 2 more minutes. We're talking a strong, rolling boil,
not a wimpy simmer here.

I then placed the brewpot in a bath of ice water. I gave it a strong stir
to create a whirlpool and put the lid on the pot to prevent contamination.
Every 10 minutes or so I spun the pot around a little, to help the process
of heat transfer. In 40 minutes the wort in the pot was around 100 degrees.

When I took the lid off the pot, lo and behold, there was a cloudy mess in the
center of the pot, and crystal clear wort around the edge. I filled my siphon
hose with water, stuck one end in the brewpot, and the other in my primary,
and began siphoning. That's when trouble started. The siphon just sucked
in all the trub along with the wort. The trub was a very fine textured
stuff, and mixed with the clear wort *very* easily. I didn't see any big
flakes of material, just a cloud.

I still managed to leave some of the trub behind, and more will be left
in the dust on Friday, when I rack to the secondary, but it seems like
this didn't work the way it was supposed to. What's wrong here? Is it
my technique or my expectations?

On another note, I ordered a 6.5 gallon glass carboy from Great Fermentations
in Santa Rosa yesterday. They are charging around $25, plus shipping estimated
at $5. Maybe that's robbery, but I couldn't find one locally, and at $30
total cost they can't be stealing much. Plus I got to actually speak to
Byron Burch, which was kind of a thrill. It was his book "Brewing Quality
Beer at Home" that got me started in homebrewing back in 1977. Yes, I am
living proof that experience is not the same as expertise.

Ken Weiss
cckweiss at castor.ucdavis.edu

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Date: 27 Sep 90 16:13:36 PDT (Thu)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: the dismissal of brewpubs

Quote from Jay Hersh:

>fresh. Along with the great, you get the good, the bad and the truly ugly.
>
>If you dispose of the whole micro movement because you don't like some of the
>beers (or even a majority) you do yourself a disservice in also passing up
>the good. I feel that there are still a lot of good micros out there, among the

I bow to your well-based argument.  At the risk of drawing this out longer
than it needs (and I was one complaining about talk of micro-brews only
two months ago!), I'll say that I would compliment the micro brewers if
they would just let their wares age more than one week to remove aldehydes
and refrain from advertising their wares as if they were the gods' gift
to brewing.  After all, there are probably 500 people reading this digest
who could, with a modicum of care, brew ale of quality (definition?) which
can exceed that of most micro brews.  For every micro brewery, how many
home breweries exist which are outdoing them?

Really, it's the same as with cooking.

Finally, I simply must underline my comments about headaches.  In my several
trips to England, I absolutely gorged myself on ale (some real, some not).
Never once did I get a hangover.  To drink one or two pints of micro brew
and get an almost immediate headache tells me that something is seriously
broken.  I can't say for certain what it is, but I'd lay odds it is the
lack of aging.  Other opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Florian


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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 90 16:29:31 PDT
From: GARY 27-Sep-1990 1926 <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Lovibond

Is there a way that we at home can measure the Lovibond rating of a brew?  Not
estimate, but measure.

Thanks...Gary

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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 90 17:30:51 PDT
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Germany, Part 3

Nuernberg is a large city sitting at the north gate to Bavaria, so to speak,
and as a result there are many things coming in and going out.  With the 
recent events in E. Europe, Nuernberg was very crowded with transients
(like gypsies) who made tourist travel very entertaining.  I make no
judgements of Nuernberg (sorry...) but the beers were diverse.

Coming from Northern and Central Germany, the thing I noticed about the
beer was the increased popularity of the Export or just plain Lager.  I
found them refreshingly drinkable without the influx of all the hops that
the pilseners had.  Also, there were many styles of beer available on tap,
including Black Pilseners, Munchner Dunkels, Helles, and wheat beers.

The Helles (lager) was straw colored, malty, low to moderately hopped, and
(quantity wise) very enjoyable.  The Black Pilsener was an incredibly smooth
lager with a hint of smoked malt and a nose that was amazing.  Drinking it 
on tap in an outdoor restuaant in the middle of the old city made it all
the more enjoyable.

My favorites:  Tucher Alt Franken Dunkel, Kulmbacher Reichelbrau Edelherb
Pils, Neumarkter Lammsbrau Hell, Monchshof Kloster Schwartz Pils, and
Lederer Premium Hell.

Homebrew hints:  Try to get an OG of around 1.050 and reduce the hops to
allow for bitterness but less aroma than a pilsener.  Hallertauers of 5.0%
Alpha would be good, at the rate of 1 to 1.5 oz per 5 gallon batch., all
boiled for an hour.  Refrigeration is again vital, using a good liquid
yeast, like Wyeast 2206.

Finally, most Americans who enjoy good beer (like most of the microbrews)
would probably prefer the Helles or Export styles of German beer, rather
than the Pilseners.  

Next....Munich (with a special trip to Andech's Kloster....)

Norm Hardy


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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 90 20:14:49 -0400
From: dlawson at grebyn.com (Drew Lawson)
Subject: Help a Beginner

I'm an interested pre-novice who has been reading through the last
month or so of this digest collecting a lot of perspective which I'me
sure will be of great value when I get started.  I have a short string
of questions to ask (now that I'm up to date on my reading).

I have picked up a few mail order addresses from magazine ads, but would
prefer those used by more experienced brewers.  One company I've noticed
meantioned several times is Foxx.  I would appreciate it if someone
would send me that address, and addresses of any equipment/supply companies
that you can recommend.

There seem to be a small collection of books that are held as the Farmers'
Almanac of Brewing.  What are these, and which would you recommend for
a beginner?

Lastly, it still may be a few months before I have the funds to get started.
I take it that this is a temperature sensitive activity.  Is winter a bad
time to start a batch? (I'm in the Washington, DC area; basement in the 50s)

I don't want to clog the digest with common knowledge.  Perhaps Email
responses would be best.  Thanks for the information, past and future.


+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Is life an illusion?                          | Drew Lawson             |
| Or does it just seem that way?                | dlawson at grebyn.com      |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Date:        27 Sep 90 07:35 -0800
From: mike_schrempp%29 at hp4200.desk.hp.com
Subject:     Biology of Taste

Anybody out there know about taste? I'm almost done drinking a batch of bitter
ale and getting ready to brew the next, trying to decide what to make. I noticed
that when my beer is a little warm (20 min in the freezer 'cause I forgot to
put it in the fridge before work) the flavor has a better balance than when it's
very cold. The colder beer always seems more bitter. I'm wondering if a person's
sensitivity to sweet decreases as temperature goes down more than the
sensitivity to bitter? As a test I tried some warm Pepsi, and it was almost like
drinking syrup!

If this is true, it seems important to know your planned drinking temperature so
you can properly balance the malt and hops. A beer for cold drinking would want
less hops in proportion to the malt to keep a balance. Maybe this is why the
Budalob guys have such success. A bland beer, but well balanced for pulling out
of a tub of ice.

Also, if drinking temperature is important for hops balance, would this apply
to the finishing hops as well?

Is this aspect mentioned in any books? I mean besides the notation that some
countries drink their beer warm.

Mike Schrempp


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #506, 09/28/90
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