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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  CO2 Pressure ("A.J deLange")
  Alcohol content ("Michael Kolaghassi")
  what happened to my fusels/harshness? ("Peter A. Ensminger")
  old malt ("Ian Watson")
  re: what happened to my fusels/harshness? ("steve.alexander")


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Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 03:08:10 +0000
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: CO2 Pressure

Yes, the high pressure gauge can fail but temperature is also a factor. 
The saturated vapor pressure of CO2 is 830 psi at 70F and that is what 
the high pressure gauge should read if the bottle is at equilibrium at 
70. At 40F, however, the pressure will drop to about 590 psi and at 88F 
it will increase to about 1100 psi (all assuming there is liquid in the 
bottle - above 88 there will be no liquid). If all the readings you saw 
were at the same temperature, then it's the gauge.


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Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 07:22:22 +0000
From: "Michael Kolaghassi" <kolaghassi89 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Alcohol content

Hey guys/gals,

I made some "sugar wine" out of table sugar, water, and baker's yeast, and I 
siphoned it from the fermentation jug to another one after about 2 weeks of 
letting it ferment.  When I first tasted it I thought I could smell and 
taste the alcohol, now after about a week I don't think its as strong when I 
tasted it after tasting my Ancient Joes Orange mead that I just racked and 
tasted.  Is the mead (made also from baker's yeast) just a stronger drink 
than the sugar wine or has some of my alcohol from the sugar wine evaporated 
or something since I leave it at room temperature?

BTW the sugar wine tastes pretty much like the Smirnoff malted beverages...I 
think Smirnoff is making a killing of a profit selling a drink that probably 
takes probably less than a dollar to make a gallon and turn around and sell 
it for $8 bucks for a six pack...

Thanks,
Michael K.



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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 01:07:32 -0400
From: "Peter A. Ensminger" <ensmingr at twcny.rr.com>
Subject: what happened to my fusels/harshness?

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the tip about ethyl acetate in 
http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/5068.html#5068-5 .

Both fusels and ethyl acetate are described as having "harsh" and 
"solvent-like" flavors. Apparently, I can't tell the difference. Can a 
more experienced beer taster can describe how these differ?

Cheers!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY




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Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 13:14:12 -0400
From: "Ian Watson" <hophead at sympatico.ca>
Subject: old malt

Hi all

I discovered I have a pail of milled pale malt that must be about 8 months 
old.  It's been in a plastic pail with a tight fitting lid and smells fine. 
Is it worth brewing with?

Thanks

Ian 



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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 19:11:31 -0400
From: "steve.alexander" <-s at adelphia.net>
Subject: re: what happened to my fusels/harshness?

MattB discusses finished beer less harsh than previous ...

>Glyn writes "Most of the high alcohols/fusels break down or
>combine."

If it were true that fusels were spontaneously replaced by less
flavorful products, the distilling industry could save many 
millions of dollars.  Doesn't happen - no way !

Now in whisk[e]y aging there is a *very modest* non-enzymatic
conversion of alcohols to esters, but note that beer is about 10x
less concentrated, is aged for at most 20x less time and that the
vast majority of the conversion involves ethanol, not fusels.  The
impact in fusels converting to esters is certainly many orders
of magnitude less in berr, and is not a significant mechanism for
fusel removal.

Many fusels in low ethanol solutions (ABV <50%) are more volatile
than ethanol, but only modestly so. Unless you are aging beer in
open vessels the fusels are not lost to selective evaporation.

The fusels could potentially oxidize to the corresponding aldehyde,
and this is energetically favored, but for each of the five flavor
significant fusels in beer <iso-butanol, 2-methyl-butanol,
3-methyl-butanol. 2-phenyl-ethyl alc, n-propanol> the related
aldehydes are roughly 100 times more flavorful, and all are considered
flavor negative.  This is a common form of beer staling, and is promoted
by the presence of melanoidins. No - this isn't a reasonable mechanism
for the flavor improvement.

The yeast do not and cannot 'filter' fusels.  Heck, the mammalian
blood-brain is a highly sophisticated barrier mechanism, and ethanol and
fusels make their way through this readily.  The simple lipid bi-layer
in yeast cells are virtually invisible to these polar solvents.

Sorry - beer fusels aren't going anywhere fast.

On a practical experience note ... it is said that some level of
beer fusels is a characteristic part of beer flavors, but I happen
to find certain types/levels (unidentified) to be particularly obnoxious.
A few years ago I had a case of SN-bigfoot ale which I found to have a
moderately offensive fusel flavor.   I drank these over a ~2.5 year period
and the fusel flavor never declined.   Actually the overall beer flavor
was remarkably stable with a moderate decline in hop bitterness.

>One possibility is that the rocket-fuelly thing that has been aging out
>of people's otherwise delicious beers is an excess of ethyl acetate,

This is possible.  Ethyl acetate (ethyl ethanoate) in quantity certain
tastes and smells as rough as any fusel - nail polish remover and glue
come to mind. I'm not sure about the mechanism.   Ethyl acetate is esterified
ethanol + acetic acid, and this can break down into ethanol & acetic.  OTOH
I read that the increase in acetic acid in stored whisk[e]y is entirely due
to acetic residues extracted from oak barrels.  I doubt this hydrolysis of
esters is at a high enough rate in beer to account for so much.

 -S




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