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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Mash mixer and recirculation ("Doug Moyer")
  Methanococcus (Jesse Stricker)
  RE: Hot side aeration ("Brian Lundeen")
  Berlin? ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Mash/Boil Oxidation ("Graham L Sanders")


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 10:28:02 -0500
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Mash mixer and recirculation

Does anyone use a mash mixer while recirculating with a pump?

If so, can you describe your system?

Also, does anyone use a grant to gravity-drain the mash tun and a float 
switch to control a pump for recirc'ing?

(Yes, as you can guess, I'm having problems where my grain bed compacts so 
much that my DOUBLE Bazooka screens collapse...)


Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Troutville, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org

Beer, brewing, travel & kids: http://shyzaboy.blogsome.com 



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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 09:38:31 -0800
From: Jesse Stricker <stricker at bioeng.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Methanococcus


	Dylan Tack wrote:

> I didn't mention this, but methane metabolism 
> appears substantially the same in all the organisms I checked with the 
> Kegg pathway database, including:
> 
> Methanococcus jannaschii (a methanotroph, i.e. methane-eating bacteria)
> ...

	There is approximately no chance at all that you'll get Methanococcus 
jannaschii in your beer.  It lives under thousands of feet of ocean at 
high temperatures and can't tolerate oxygen or low pressure or 
temperature (like atmospheric pressure or room temperature).

	Jesse
	
- -- 
        Jesse Stricker                 stricker at bioeng.ucsd.edu


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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:38:47 -0600
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at mts.net>
Subject: RE: Hot side aeration

> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:59:10 -0800
> From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com>
> Subject: Re: Hot side aeration
> 
> I haven't been following the whole conversation, so forgive 
> me if this is off base, but I do have some personal data 
> concerning mashing in a rectangular cooler and the risks of 
> HSA.  A few years back, Brian Lundeen was such a vocal 
> proponent of using metabite in the mash that I decided to 
> give it a try.  

If memory serves me correctly, I was a vocal proponent of having a great
many brewers try k-meta in their brewing process, and report back the
results. I think you were one of the few that actually tried it. I have no
vested interest in this, I sold off my shares in Metabisulfite GmbH over a
decade ago. I know the guru from down under, Graham Sanders, swears by the
stuff. Then again, he has been hit by a bus, so take that for what it's
worth. ;-)

Cheers
Brian, in Winnipeg



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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 01:46:06 -0500
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd at spencerwthomas.com>
Subject: Berlin?

I'm traveling to Berlin (Germany, yes) next week.  What beer
sites/sights should I NOT miss?  What else shouldn't I miss?  Last time
I was in Berlin, it was 1979, so a lot has changed since then. :-)

Thanks for any pointers you can give.

=Spencer



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Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 19:04:07 +1000
From: "Graham L Sanders" <grahamsanders at rawnet.com.au>
Subject: Mash/Boil Oxidation

G"Day All

dear oh dear.

I feel like taking you all aside, taking you all back to school, sitting you 
lot down, making Steve "faviourite student" and giving you all six of the 
best. Where do I start in mashing 101?

Firstly, I have yet to meet a brewer who airated his mash and especially 
boil. Phil Yates had a lot of hot air come out of his mouth, but none 
penetrated the mash or boil in the process. Still I banished him to the back 
blocks to be save. None of you need to hear his waffle. I tried to get him 
to play with the local sting-rays, but he is not that dumb!!!!!!!!

But this bloody Hot Side Airation. No brewer i know airates their mash. If 
you do "your a bloody idiot". Please students, what we are discussing is 
Mash and / or Boil Oxidation, in all it forms. Lets get the the words right. 
You automatically fail in my class, and any-one elses with any knowledge of 
brewing practices or now-how if you say HSA. It doesn't exist, never has, 
never will, unless you are actually doing it. And as i said, no-one I know 
is bubbling air thru their mash or boil.

OK, does oxidation of the mash and boil exist exist. Bloody oath it does. 
Any-one who denys this leave the class now, you dont know your chemistry. It 
occurs thru two main pathways. One is thru an enzymic pathway. A little 
beast called lipooxygenase, that althou is denatured at mash temps, hangs 
arround well long enough to such up O2 at a high rate of knots, converting 
UFA to precusors of staling compounds. This in the brewing scene at home is 
impossible to stop, and sucks your mash dry of O2 in seconds. This is why 
ALL beer goes off - so to speak.

The other method you can contol is the mechanical method, where lipids are 
also converted to nasty compounds. This is very temperature dependant, 
bascially the hotter it is, the faster it occurs, and the results basically 
make your beer go off "faster". Got that.!!!!!!!!!!! So children, any method 
that can reduce this ingress improves your beers freshness, taste and life. 
My faviourite student has well and truly covered this.

I shouldn't be rude, so I will be honest and frank. Mask and/or boil 
oxidation does exist. Its flavours are well known, papers written, and can 
be tasted. Any bugger who says they dont taste it probably has over oxidised 
beer thru-out his/her life, so doesn't know the difference. Any judge who 
have never tasted true beer made with anti-oxidant brewing techniques is not 
a good judge - and i dont care how many certificates they have. Please you 
so called judging experts, educate yourself.

Its real.

Now where is that hole to crawl into to!!!!!!!!!!

Shout
Graham L Sanders

oh

Those crocs up here are getting bad. Some bright spark saw one in the water 
and wanted a better picture, so got a stick and poked it. Well you can 
guess, what happened next. Lucky bugger is in hospital getting sown up 
again.

Bloody tourists. 




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