HOMEBREW Digest #5097 Tue 21 November 2006

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  Re: Hot side aeration (Denny Conn)
  Re: Bacteria and Methanol (Dylan Tack)
  RE: Sherry Pyment from F-pack ("Brian Lundeen")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:59:10 -0800 From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com> Subject: Re: Hot side aeration I haven't been following the whole conversation, so forgive me if this is off base, but I do have some personal data concerning mashing in a rectangular cooler and the risks of HSA. A few years back, Brian Lundeen was such a vocal proponent of using metabite in the mash that I decided to give it a try. Since I batch sparge in a rectangular cooler, it would seem that I was a prime candidate for mash oxidation, if indeed it existed. In addition, I have tasted beers that I believe suffered from mash oxidation, so I was interested to see if there might be something I could do to avoid the possibility in my beers. For a year, I experimented with adding 1 or crushed campden tabs to my mash tun. However, I never detected any improvement in my beer. FWIW, I also detected no abnormal oxidation in the beers, either before I started using the campden or when I was using it. This lead me to conclude that it was likely that despite my rough treatment of the mash, I was not experiencing oxidation issues due to it. I still definitely believe HSA exists and *can* be a problem, but I also believe that it's harder to get it than you would suppose. It would appear that batch sparging in a rectangular cooler is not a problem as far as HSA is concerned. And one more data point...Don Lund brewed a batch of mid gravity beer that he purposely tried to oxidize as much as possible. He sent me 2 bottles, at about 5 months. Another BJCP judge and I tried 1 bottle at that poinrand another about 2 months later. The beer was no more oxidized that any mid gravity beer would be at 7 months of age. --------------->Denny Conn Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:28:27 -0600 From: Dylan Tack <dylan-tack at uiowa.edu> Subject: Re: Bacteria and Methanol Another HBD reader raised an issue regarding the link to the methane metabolism pathway. The pathway was for S. Cerevisiae, and not other less desirable organisms. I didn't mention this, but methane metabolism appears substantially the same in all the organisms I checked with the Kegg pathway database, including: Methanococcus jannaschii (a methanotroph, i.e. methane-eating bacteria) E. Coli (hopefully not in your beer!) Lactobacillus plantarum (no pathway maps yet for L. brevis or pediococcus) Zymomonas mobilis (another beer spoilage organism) While this is not an exhaustive list of all organisms that might possibly grow in beer, I'm still reasonably confident you won't get methanol in your beer without formaldehyde (or methane). -Dylan Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:43:06 -0600 From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at mts.net> Subject: RE: Sherry Pyment from F-pack > > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 18:27:13 -0500 > From: "Kevin Morgan" <kmorgan1 at localnet.com> > Subject: Re: Sherry Pyment from F-pack > > > I've made several of the wineexpert kits with the F-pack. > The F-packs are added AFTER stabilizing. Don't count on the > F-pack containing "anti-fermentation" > agents, other than that I can't think of any reason not to > use them in a Pyment > Tim Vandergrift of Winexpert wrote in a winemaking forum, "F-Packs not only contain sorbate, and sulphite, they also have a measure of sodium benzoate, plus they are acidified to lower the pH. They can't be easily fermented". This does not mean they can't be fermented, but you need a strong, active yeast population when you add them. People have reported successfully fermenting out an f-pack added into a 23 liter kit at the height of fermentation. If the goal is to keep the pyment dry, then that would be the approach to take. For a sweet pyment, just add it after fermentation. Cheers Brian, in Winnipeg Return to table of contents
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