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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

Contents:
  cidery smell & plastic vs. glass (Jason Goldman)
  Errata (Andy Newman)
  Not about sugar (Dave Hollenbeck)
  Fish bladders, seaweed, etc (rdg)

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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 89 07:43:24 mst
From: Jason Goldman <hp-lsd!jdg>
Subject: cidery smell & plastic vs. glass
Full-Name: Jason Goldman

Well, I started my second batch this weekend.  As an experiment, I decided to
try starting my yeast the night before.  I boiled 1/3 gallon of water with
some malt extract and some sucrose.  When everything cooled, I put the mini-
wort into a gallon milk jug and pitched my (dry) yeast.  I put an airlock on
the jug and was pleased to see some bubbles within a couple of hours.  The
next morning, when I was getting ready to pitch my starter, I noticed a sort
of off smell along with the strong yeasty smell.  I think that this is the
cidery effect that has been discussed here.  I decide to pitch the starter in
despite this smell and my beer is boiling nicely.  I haven't noticed any off
smell, so I think it was diluted enough.

Next debate question:
Glass carboys vs. plastic tanks.  I bought my first kit from Williams and I
got their 'system'.  This includes 2 plastic 6 gallon containers (each with a
spigot), a lid (with an airlock hole) and an airlock.  For my second batch, I
borrowed a friend's glass carboy and siphon pump.  The Williams kit does not
require a siphon due to the spigots.  I played with the siphon pump before I
started my beer and I decided that this was not as nice as the spigots.  I
haven't even gotten to the point of siphoning my beer into the priming tank
for bottling and I think that I prefer the plastic.

I think that if I were using a secondary fermentation step, I would probably
use glass.  Also, I know that plastic can get scratched and hold bacteria,
but if the tank gets scratched, it is easy enough to make another one.

Comments?

Jason
hp-lsd!jdg

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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 89 09:17 EST
From: Andy Newman <NEWMAN at Venus.YCC.Yale.Edu>
Subject: Errata

Greetings:

I have a series of questions that have come up over the weekend.

	1) I currently use those large (~7 gallon) plastic lidded
	buckets as primary fermenters.  While they are generally
	adequate, the lids are damnably hard to remove and install
	without shaking the brew around a lot.  It there anything
	more -- um -- professional that is available that maintains
	a good seal through, perhaps, a more precise manner?

	2) My understanding of the use of gelatine as a fining agent
	is that it works in a purely mechanical fashion to remove the
	yeast from the liquid.  Just how complete is this removal?  
	Essentially, what I'm interested in is if I'm going to have
	any problem bottle conditioning my beer if I add gelatine 24
	hours prior to racking them.

	3) (Big question)  I've recently become interested in trying
	my own mashing.  Up until this point I've been making beer
	from various combinations of extract and adjuncts that already
	have undergone starch conversion.  My local brew supplies
	store claims that "it's not worth the trouble...the beer
	kits are much better these days"...even if he's being 
	truthful, I'd still like to try it.  My two questions on
	this topic are:

		a) What equipment should I buy?  What's mandatory,
		what's nice to have, and what's a total waste of
		money?

		b) What is the relative cost of, say, pale malt
		versus canned malte extract and DME?  My supplier
		charges about 8 dollars for a can of low-brow
		extract (3.3-3.5 pounds) and the same 8 dollars for
		4 pounds of DME.  He doesn't stock quantities of
		unconverted malt.

	4) I'm trying to track down a recipe for Oatmeal stout....I
	understand that there was one published in a back issue
	of Zymurgy that I haven't been able to track down...If
	someone has this recipe and would be willing to either 
	post it or mail it to me I would be eternally grateful.

	5) (Finally)...just a word of note/warning...I just finished
	bottling a batch last night (that's not the warning).  I 
	used two cases of empty Sam Smith bottles because they
	seemed rugged and looked attractive.  I notice, however,
	one minor flaw with these bottles.  The mechanical hand
	capper I have doesn't fit the neck of the bottle correctly.
	Specifically, the metal yoke that is designed to clamp all
	the way around the bottle doesn't make it.  As a result, when
	you apply pressure to seal the cap, you are also attempting
	to constrict the neck of the bottle.  I managed to crush the
	neck of a bottle this way.  The class just completely
	pulverized and left me extract glass dust from my capper.
	I discovered that if you apply a small amount of pressure and
	then reposition the capper down slightly (after the cap has
	partially seated) for the final ooomph...it seems to reduce
	the risk notably.

				-long windedly your,

				 Andy Newman

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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 89 09:57:48 mst
From: Dave Hollenbeck <dbh at hpesdbh>
Subject: Not about sugar

Not that the sugar stories aren't interesting, but how about some
discussion about mashing?

I've seen it said that the specialty grains (dark and crystal) don't need
to be added during mashing - they can wait until the boil.  I've also
seen it said that the dark grains contribute to a proper pH level during
the mash.  Does anyone have any facts to share on this subject?

My habit has been to always include all the grains during the mash,
partly because I figured it was better for the wort, and partly because I
don't want to waste volume in my boiling kettle for grain.

I'd also be interested in hearing about time/temperature profiles that
people think are good or bad.

Happy brewing,
Dave ("Relax? I can't get any more relaxed!") Hollenbeck

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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 89 11:52:41 MST
From: rdg at hpfcmi
Subject: Fish bladders, seaweed, etc
Full-Name: 	Rob Gardner	

There have been several mentions of finings (gelatin, etc) lately,
so I thought I'd add my highly opinionated opinions.

The process called fining is a good one to experiment with, but I
think you'll find that you can make very clear beers without it.  You
should also know that gelatin is made from ground-up dead animals, so
your vegetarian friends might not want to drink your beer ;-) Other
fining agents include egg white, fish bladder extract, dirt, and
mashed up seaweed. I wonder who first got the idea that these things
would improve their beer! In all seriousness though, I would consider
any fining agent to violate the "all-malt" creed, and its use is only
to correct faults, and not to be put into your all-malt homebrew. How would you
feel about adding some chemicals to your beer to improve head
retention? Well, there are heading compounds you can buy and add to
your beer, but I would classify them with fining agents, since they
are not needed in an all-malt brew, only in worts with high sigar
contents or other additives.

Rob

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