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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  doppelbock: roasty vs. toasty ("Peter A. Ensminger")
  A good starting point ("Alex Bradstreet")
  Wash-Off Labels (FLJohnson52)
  Re: Lager question (Jeff Renner)
  wine yeast/crimped copper chillers (Matt)
  Re: Malt flavor & aroma (Jeff Renner)
  Keller Bier ("Tom Viemont")
  RE: Kellebier ("Rick Garvin")


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Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 01:04:04 -0500
From: "Peter A. Ensminger" <ensmingr at twcny.rr.com>
Subject: doppelbock: roasty vs. toasty

Many responses to my request for a suggested malt bill for an upcoming 
doppelbock.

According to BJCP, a doppelbock should be "toasty", but not "roasty". 
What exactly is the difference between roasty and toasty?

See: http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category5.html

Cheers!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
Apparent Rennerian: [394, 79.9]



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Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 07:39:03 -0500
From: "Alex Bradstreet" <abconsulting at hotmail.com>
Subject: A good starting point

Thank you John Peed for your remarks regarding scorching your barley. The
line "the beer was said to have a soy sauce character" made me laugh out
loud.

I have wondered where is the most efficient starting point for the home
brewer (grow the grains? make your own extract from malted barley? use
extracts?) as my overall goal is to make organic, great tasting beer. I
think that making your own extract might be less costly than using extracts
from a bag or can, but that adds a few hours to your process. Thoughts?

I've got a small batch of oganic "Toasty Brew" from extracts in the works,
and if it comes out well I'll post the recipe on my website.

Alex Bradstreet
Old Orchard Beach, Maine



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Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 08:49:20 -0500
From: FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com
Subject: Wash-Off Labels

There has been some recent discussion on how to make bottle labels that
are easy to remove. I just received a catalog from Diversified Biotech
in Boston, Massachusettes advertising lots of novel products, one of
which is a wash-off label. From the picture and description, these look
much like a standard Laser-printable (perhaps also ink-jet printable?),
Avery style label. They are advertised to "dissolve under running water
in less than 30 seconds". I suspect just soaking the label briefly would
allow one to rub it off with no trouble. It is described as 100%
biodegradable.

Labels come as 

Cat No. WASH-1000 Color White 2.625" x 1", 750/pk for $65.00 and
Cat No. WASH-2000 Color White 4" x 1" 500/pk for $65.00

You can check them out at www.divbio.com

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA


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Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 09:24:19 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Lager question

Darrell asks:


>  What would be the implications of re-cooling a CAP/ LAGER after  
> the diacetyl
> rest, and before taking it off of the yeast?  I ask in that I wish  
> to re-use
> the yeast just by pitching on top of the cake, but cannot do so for  
> several
> days, and my lager has sat for 2 days at around 60F.

I don't see any problem with that, as long as the diacetyl is  
completely gone and fermentation is nearly over.

But before doing a diacetyl rest, I always encourage brewers to be  
sure they need it by smelling and tasting the nearly finished beer.   
I never do one and I am really sensitive to diacetyl.  It depends on  
the yeast selection and fermentation procedure.

I use WLP838 Southern German Lager Yeast (Ayinger) almost exclusively  
and chill and pitch to as close to 48F (9C) as possible, which is the  
temperature I ferment at.  no diacetyl whatsoever.  Some strains  
produce a fair amount under some conditions.

Jeff

- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943




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Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 06:40:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: wine yeast/crimped copper chillers

Raj, can we hear some more about this wine yeast?  Why do you use it?

- --

No good temperature measurements yet, but in messing around with the
completed "crimped copper" counterflow chiller, it seems to be very
much more efficient than the uncrimped version.


 


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Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 09:53:44 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Malt flavor & aroma

John Peed wrote from Oak Ridge, TN:

>   I have attempted 3 Doppelbocks, a Dunkel
> and a couple of Alts - all have been disappointing in malt flavor &
> aroma.  The last straw was a 100% Alt that had all the malt character
> of, say, Coca Cola.  I actually threw it out without even carbonating
> it.

I have one rule about bad or disappointing beers - I don't throw them  
out until they are old and bad.  Your beer might have been nice, if  
not what you wanted, once it was carbonated and had settled down with  
some maturation.

But disregarding that, I have had good luck with a couple of tricks  
in brewing malty Dunkles, which should apply to Doppelbocks.  First,  
I use mostly or nearly all dark Munich.  Then I do a pseudo- 
decoction, which I have described previously.  I think this was  
suggested by one of our Austrian members, whose name escapes me just  
now.  It is much easier than a decoction and give much the same  
flavor results.

For this, I mash about a third of the grains as usual at ~153F/67C  
for 30 minutes, then boil them for 30-45 minutes, then return them to  
the rest of the grains, which I have mashed while the first was boiling.

This is rather like a traditional American cereal mash.  The main  
mash rests at about 146F (63C) for perhaps 30-45 minutes, then when  
the boiled mash is added, the temperature goes to about 158F/70C.  I  
rest it there for another 30 minutes or so, then mash out and lauter.

Most recently, I have even pressure cooked the small mash (as I do  
with cereal mashes for CAPs).  I put the pot with the mashed grain in  
a big 22 qt (21L) pressure cooker so that I am not applying heat  
directly to the grains.  Twenty minutes at 15 psi (250F/121C) really  
produces nice melanoidins.

There is hope - don't give up yet!

Jeff

- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943





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Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 09:57:15 -0500
From: "Tom Viemont" <t_viemont at hotmail.com>
Subject: Keller Bier

Rick-

Great post about maltiness and the necessity of decoctions in HBD 5157. 
Can't say I'm willing to step up to the decoction plate yet.  My first lager 
is still in the fermenter.  I am very interested in hearing more about that 
Keller Bier recipe, though.  Can you share a little more with the class?

Best regards,

Tom Viemont
Raleigh, NC 



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Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 12:07:24 -0500
From: "Rick Garvin" <rgarvin at garvin.us>
Subject: RE: Kellebier

Tom,

The Franconian Kellerbier that Christine and I make is a distinct historical
style brewed by more than 100 breweries in the Northern Bavarian region of
Franconia. It is not just any style of lager served with yeast like a Keller
Pils, Keller Helles or Keller Bock. Dirty little secret: you are more likely
to find Kellerbier in Bamberg than Rauchbier. I have more on this if you are
interested.

The color of Kellerbier runs from a relatively pale beer such as St. Georgen
Brau or Lowenbrau from Buttenheim to the more frequently seen light-medium
amber such as that Mahrs' Ungespundet-hefetrub. This is usually served
Ungespundet (unbunged) by gravity with low-medium carbonation. Our version
is towards the St. Georgen lighter end of the spectrum. The darker versions
are sometimes called a Vollbier, which in Franconia is a red/amber
Kellerbier. This is an overloaded term and confusing since vollbier is also
a taxation classification. More info at http://www.franconiabeerguide.com/.

Subjective impression: crisp hoppy beer with malt support, white pepper
Spalter character in bitterness, flavor and aroma

It's a pretty simple beer:

OG: 1.050
FG: 1.010
IBU: 45
SRM: 4-7 estimated
Water: enough sulfate to support the hop bitterness

82% Pils malt
18% Vienna malt
100% Spalter hops

Single temperature infusion mash at 150F with 1.5 quarts water per pound

Hop schedule
60 minutes - 40 IBU (about 2 oz per 5 gallons)
10 minutes - 5 IBU (about 1.25 oz per 5 gallons)

Attenuative lager yeast, we use WLP830, fermented at 50F for two weeks and
then cellared until sulfur dissipates. We have gotten pretty good results
with fermentation temperatures between 45F and 65F, but 50F provides the
best flavor integration with this yeast.

Serve as keg beer or, for a fun party, serve from a firkin under gravity
with light carbonation the way they do in Brauerei Ausschanks in Franconia.

Cheers, Rick



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