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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Jeff's pressure cooker ("Dave Draper")
  RE: doppelbock: roasty vs. toasty ("David Houseman")
  Call for judges - AHA Southeast Region (John Larsen)
  wine yeast (Raj B Apte)
  Re: Lager question (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Lager question (Bill Tobler)
  Toasty & soy sauce ("Peed, John")
  Classic American Pilsner - one experience ("Doug Moyer")
  The Renner Decoction Mash (harry.backenass)


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Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 21:28:19 -0700
From: "Dave Draper" <david at draper.name>
Subject: Jeff's pressure cooker

Dear Friends,

All I can say is... can there be anyone else but Jeff Renner who has 
a TWENTY-ONE LITER pressure cooker?!?!  Damn!

Cheers, Dave in ABQ
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
David S. Draper, Institute of Meteoritics, Univ New Mexico
David at Draper dot Name
Beer page: http://www.unm.edu/~draper/beer.html
We [HBDers] are like the Borg ---Chris Geden






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Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:22:13 -0500
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: doppelbock: roasty vs. toasty

Peter,

Good question.   To me there's a continuum of maillard reaction that goes
from one extreme to the other.  Where the line is crossed may be somewhat
subjective.  Toasty is like smelling freshly toasted bread.  It's a rich
graininess.  Vienna malt has toastiness.  If you put pale malt in the oven
until it smells like baking bread the resulting beer is toasty.   Roastiness
is a much darker char.  Coffee if roasty.   Toast that burns in the toaster
is roasted.  Chocolate, black and roasted barley fall into roastiness.
It's more acrid, coffee, burnt.   So in a doppelbock, the roasted grains
aren't used.   The exception might be a bit of de-husked caraffa for color
but below the flavor threshold.  Similarly roasted barley at low levels in
Scottish ales for color and adding just a hint of "smokiness."

Dave



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Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 09:26:32 -0500
From: John Larsen <jlarsen at nettally.com>
Subject: Call for judges - AHA Southeast Region

The North Florida Brewers League www.nfbl.org in Tallahassee, Florida 
is hosting the Southeast region of the AHA National Homebrewing 
Competition.  We need judges.  Judging will take place on Saturday April 
21 and Sunday April 22.  

We have arranged a great rate at a nice hotel - The Cabot Lodge.  Call 
850.386.8880 to make reservations.  Call by April 6 and tell them you 
are with the AHA National Homebrew Competition to receive the special 
rate - $65 for a king or two doubles.  You can have up to 4 people in 
tbe room at that rate.

Did I mention that we will need lots of judges?  If you can help, please 
contact our judge director, Thomas Crawford, crawfow at comcast.net

To enter the competition, you need to register through the AHA.  Go to 
www.beertown.org for details.

John Larsen





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Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 06:51:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Raj B Apte <raj_apte at yahoo.com>
Subject: wine yeast

Matt asked about my use of wine yeast.

I use  

http://www.thewinelab.com/HansenYeast.htm

for my dry yeasts. I bought 500g of Harmony (for the price
of 4 stupid wet-yeast tubes) and have used not much else
for 3 years. A typical run starts with 20g of rehydrated
dry yeast that is repitched (1/3 of cake) 4-6 times
(perhaps defeating the multi-strain balance).  That's 100
batches of beer for <$30.

I used the yeast initially for its fruitiness (English Ale)
for sour ales, but now I use it for everything. It has
broad temperature (63F - 80), makes very fruity IPAs, and
handles the 1.075 - 1.100 range that I typically brew in
with aplomb. I made a mead from it (1.150) recently--a
rhodomel doped with organic dried rose hips--that was
really very nice (before I pegged it for long-term
storage). 14% alcohol tolerance for those big beers. I was
pleased recently during a cold snap to see it perform at
62F, where it make a nice, clean fermentation.

The first 20L of a new yeast batch sometimes has a slightly
worse taste than the 3rd or 4th, but I think that's typical
for yeast generally.

I have no connection to Chr. Hansen, the Wine Lab, or any
yeast manufacturer.

raj


 


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Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 10:22:12 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Lager question


On Mar 9, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Bill Tobler wrote:

> Yesterday, Jeff said,
>
> "I use WLP838 Southern German Lager Yeast (Ayinger) almost  
> exclusively and chill and pitch to as close to 48F (9C) as  
> possible, which is the  temperature I ferment at.  no diacetyl  
> whatsoever.  Some strains  produce a fair amount under some  
> conditions."
>
> Jeff, you either got this wrong, or I've been using the wrong yeast  
> for years.  Here is your post in year 2002,
>
> http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4114.html#4114-8,
>
> Stating WLP833 is the Ayinger strain.  Below is the description of  
> both yeasts, WLP833 and WLP838.  Ok, come clean now, which one is it?

Oops, a bad job on my part of cutting and pasting from the WhiteLabs  
web site on my part.  Two similar names tripped me up.  Thanks for  
catching this.

For the record, my favorite and standard yeast is WLP833 German Bock  
Lager Yeast.  This is especially embarrassing since I had a part in  
convincing WhiteLabs to carry this year around rather than  
seasonally.  It was brought to the US from Ayinger by fellow Ann  
Arborite Dan McConnell of the late Yeast Culture Kit Co, whose yeast  
collection (hundreds of yeasts) is now at WhiteLabs.  It's a great  
all round lager yeast.

Once again, my favorite lager yeast is

WLP833 German Bock Lager Yeast.

WLP833 German Bock Lager Yeast.

WLP833 German Bock Lager Yeast.

Wish I could use bold type and underline to more emphatically correct  
this error!

Thanks again, Bill.

Jeff

- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943




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Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 09:21:54 -0600
From: Bill Tobler <brewbetter1 at houston.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Lager question

Yesterday, Jeff said,

"I use WLP838 Southern German Lager Yeast (Ayinger) almost  
exclusively and chill and pitch to as close to 48F (9C) as possible,  
which is the  temperature I ferment at.  no diacetyl whatsoever.   
Some strains  produce a fair amount under some conditions."

Jeff, you either got this wrong, or I've been using the wrong yeast  
for years.  Here is your post in year 2002,

http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4114.html#4114-8,

Stating WLP833 is the Ayinger strain.  Below is the description of  
both yeasts, WLP833 and WLP838.  Ok, come clean now, which one is it?



Bill Tobler
Lake Jackson, TX
(1129.2, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian
Brewing Great Beer in South Texas


WLP833 German Bock Lager Yeast
 From the Alps of southern Bavaria, this yeast produces a beer that  
is well balanced between malt and hop character. The excellent malt  
profile makes it well suited for Bocks, Dopplebocks, and Oktoberfest  
style beers. Very versatile lager yeast, it is so well balanced that  
it has gained tremendous popularity for use in Classic American style  
Pilsners. Also good for Helles style lager beer.
Attenuation: 70-76 percent
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 48-55 F
Alcohol Tolerance: Medium-High
Review this strain

WLP838 Southern German Lager Yeast
This yeast is characterized by a malty finish and balanced aroma. It  
is a strong fermentor, produces slight sulfur, and low diacetyl.
Attenuation: 68-76 percent
Flocculation: Medium to High
Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 50-55 F
Alcohol Tolerance: Medium
Review this strain






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Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 07:33:57 -0800
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: Toasty & soy sauce

Peter, toasty is a description of the deep, rich malt flavor that you
find in the best Doppelbocks, Alts, O-fests and Dunkels (the Munich malt
flavor that is underneath the sweetness that may be present in varying
amounts, depending on the style).  Roasty is more what you get in stout
or porter (dark brown and black malts). 

Alex, soy sauce appears to be a fairly common descriptor for part of the
character that you get from a "malt reduction" (boiling a small portion
of the first runnings down to some fraction).  In a mild to moderate
reduction (50% or less), you get mostly caramel richness.  If you reduce
more than that (or scorch the wort, as I did), then you can get into
some really interesting flavors, some of which might be described as soy
sauce.  Traquair House has some of that character.  Incidentally, a
while back I tasted a home brewed dark beer and commented to a friend
that I tasted something familiar but that I couldn't place it.  After
about 5 minutes it hit me: balsamic vinegar.  He agreed.  It wasn't
really vinegary, but it did have some of that characteristic flavor.
Strange things can happen in dark beers.

John Peed
Oak Ridge, TN





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Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 11:01:52 -0500
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Classic American Pilsner - one experience

Jeff Renner suggested that I post a link to the entry on my blog detailing 
my recent (Monday) brew session, a CAP.

http://shyzaboy.blogsome.com/2007/03/06/a-tip-of-the-cap/

Hopefully some of you will enjoy the pictures!

Next CAP, I will certainly follow Jeff's suggestion of pressure cooking the 
cereal mash...

Any comments, criticisms or questions welcome!

(p.s. all the pictures are hot linked to larger versions - just click on the 
picture.)


Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Troutville, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org

Beer, brewing, travel & kids: http://shyzaboy.blogsome.com



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Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 8:56:33 -0800
From: <harry.backenass at charter.net>
Subject: The Renner Decoction Mash

Jeff - you mention holding 1/3 of the grist separately for
bringing to a boil for a decoction mash.  What water / grain ratio
do you use for this separate mash?  I'd like to try this method 
with a German or Czech style Pilsner this spring.
 
Would a decoction mash like this be beneficial to an Oktoberfest? 
It's that time of year! 
 
H.B. 
Glen Carbon, IL 


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