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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE: toasty vs roasty (Andrew Tate)
  hop rhizomes ("Andrew Stuart")
  Re: European Biercation ("Glenn Raudins")
  Jefferson City Missouri drinking establishments? ("Steve Laycock")
  Thanks to everybody who participated in this year's Las Vegas Winterfest (Scott Alfter)
  fine line between hobby & mental illness ("-s@adelphia.net")
  Pressure cookers, Kellerbier (Calvin Perilloux)
  Potential for service upgrade... ("Patrick Babcock")
  KNICKERBOCKER BEER (Sharon Bell)


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Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2007 22:07:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Tate <y1090r-hbd at yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: toasty vs roasty

A very interesting topic!  Dave Houseman's post
reminds me of something I've been working to solve for
some time.  I've noticed a toasty taste in one of the
local New England beers, Harpoon IPA, that I'd like in
my own ales.  It's a subtle, but identifiable, dry
crusty baked grain type of flavor in the middle.  The
Harpoon web site is a little elusive:

"Harpoon IPA has three malts. One adds a toasted
flavor and another a malty flavor. Along with the
third malt, a 2-row pale..."

The beer is pretty pale (listed as 15 EBC, roughly 6
SRM) for a 15.5P beer so there can't be much of
anything too dark.  I've tried victory, biscuit, and
small amounts of chocolate or roasted barley in my
ales.  Toasting my own pale malt was going to be my
next step.  

Dave describes Vienna malt as an example of toasty
flavors.  I hadn't considered this, and perhaps that's
the trick.  Anyone care to share tips for getting a
smooth toastiness in a pale ale?  

Thanks.

Andrew
Boston, MA





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Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 13:22:43 -0500
From: "Andrew Stuart" <acstuart at gmail.com>
Subject: hop rhizomes

I've been brewing for about 6 months now and I want to take the
opportunity of the new springtime to grow some hops and see if there
is a difference between fresh hops and hop pellets/old dried whole
hops. I have talked to my local brewmaster store but they don't have a
lot of information about where their rhizomes are from. I know from
experience that where you get your strains (genetics) can greatly
affect the outcome of the plant, along with fertilization etc. Do any
of you know where I could go to find some good hop strains? Does it
really matter (after all the processing during brewing?) Since its
going to take at least 6 months to grow these I want to make sure I
start off on the left foot. Below are a couple of websites I have
found for ordering rhizomes. Thanks for your input!

http://ypsilantibrewing.com/catalog/rhizomes.php

http://www.thymegarden.com/site/561124/page/217466

Andrew Stuart
acstuartATgmailDOTcom
Durham, NC USA


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Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:44:43 -0400
From: "Glenn Raudins" <glenn at raudins.com>
Subject: Re: European Biercation

Robert asked about beer tripping through a number of countries.  Since you 
mention the Baltics, I would suggest a trip to Riga, Latvia.  It is 
difficult to tour breweries there because they are food industry, or so I 
have been told.  (I did manage to pull enough strings during my last visit 
to tour Aldaris though, so anything is possible.)  But while in Riga, I 
would encourage heading to the "Old Town" portion and enjoying an Aldaris 
Porteris in a cafe near one of the 800 year old city fortification walls. 
It is the perfect blend of beer and atmosphere.

If you don't choose to visit Belgium, while in Amsterdam, I suggest you 
visit the Cracked Kettle beer shop (http://www.crackedkettle.com/) for your 
beer acquisition needs, and then go across the alley to Gollum, a small yet 
brillant pub which features a great selection of Belgian beers.

Glenn




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Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:40:54 -0800
From: "Steve Laycock" <slaycock at discoverynet.com>
Subject: Jefferson City Missouri drinking establishments?

I will likely find myself in Jefferson City Missouri this next weekend and
was hoping for comments on any good places to find beer and good food.  Any
blues bars?
Thanks for any help!
Steve in KC
P.S.  I did a couple searches and found very little on line for jeff city.




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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 00:27:00 -0700
From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us>
Subject: Thanks to everybody who participated in this year's Las Vegas Winterfest

 ...especially the eight judges, whose livers will one day be of interest to
science. :-)

The 62 entries from seven states were all worthy contenders.  The best of the
lot, as determined by our Best of Show panel, are the following:

    Best of Show: Old Dog, an Old Ale by Bill Tobler of Lake Jackson, TX
2nd Best of Show: German Pils, a German Pilsner by Mark Naaktgeboren of
                  Long Beach, CA
3rd Best of Show: Wee Heavy, a Strong Scotch Ale by yours truly

Full results are up at
http://www.nevadabrew.com/twiki/bin/view/Competitions/Winterfest07Results.

Scott Alfter
scott at alfter.us




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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:12:14 -0400
From: "-s at adelphia.net" <-s@adelphia.net>
Subject: fine line between hobby & mental illness

>All I can say is... can there be anyone else but Jeff Renner who has 
>a TWENTY-ONE LITER pressure cooker?!?!  Damn!

YO !  Actually  I have two!  OTOH I think the micro-CCV crowd and
their money are soon parted, and we intermittently see posts
from guys who think of a sanke as 58L pressure cooker.

Takes all sorts, as you should well know by now Dave,

 -S







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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:54:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Pressure cookers, Kellerbier

Two items....

Dave Draper asks: 

> All I can say is... can there be anyone else but 
> Jeff Renner who has a TWENTY-ONE LITER pressure cooker?!?!

Of course!  I've got one at home.  Don't you?
Doesn't everybody?  What do YOU use for preparing
your canned starter worts?  :-)  My cooker is aluminum,
vintage 1940's, Dixie Canning Company, Little Rock Arkansas.  
And you can still get parts -- from Wisconsin Aluminum Foundry.

I haven't tried Jeff's pressure-decoction yet, though.
That sounds like a interesting and fast way to develop
some good melanoidins.

On a separate note, Rick Garvin writes about Kellerbier:

> Serve as keg beer or, for a fun party, serve from a 
> firkin under gravity with light carbonation the way 
> they do in Brauerei Ausschanks in Franconia.

My experience there in S. Germany was that we'd receive the 
kegs under full pressure, e.g. the usual approx 2.5 vols CO2,
and then we'd vent and tap them.  This was at work at an 
airline IT shop, and oh I do miss some parts of that job, 
like sitting at the desk with a [name-yer-beer].  

The beer would indeed be served via gravity, but it still 
was fully carbonated, at least until you "splooshed it foamily" 
into the liter Masskrug.  So I'd recommend carbonating the beer
lager-style, then serving it Real Ale style.

And I'd like to encourage those looking to brew a nice 
Kellerbier to follow any of Rick's advice he's given in 
these recent HBD's.  He and Christine (the real brewer 
behind the operation, you know) make some truly excellent 
lagers.  Especially that Kellerbier.

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA



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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:26:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Patrick Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Potential for service upgrade...

Greetings, Beerings! Take me to your lager...

For several years now, the HBD has been operating under a 1/4 T1 (384
kbps) symmetric DSL. We were unable to upgrade the bandwidth because of
the line distance of the servers from the local telco.

Our service provider, Covad, has just dropped the price of a full T1 line
into the "affordability range"; however, the HBD is without a sponsor, and
I'm reticent to sign on to the required 1 year contract due to the
condition of the economy and the shaky position the auto industry is in at
the moment. A change to T1 would all but eliminate the outages experienced
when trying to reach the HBD site, and will also allow me to sign on some
"programming" janitors, since off-site access won't be so ridiculously
slow. This has the potential to greatly enhance the quality of the HBD.

Here's what I need to "make the leap": a signed-on and paid sponsor for
the HBD at the full $3600 rate. The T1 line is $299/mo, not counting fees
for the equipment (sales tax) and our domain name. I had been trying to
wean the HBD from sponsors' monies; however this opportunity is too good
to pass up. Time is limited, though - the monthly cost goes up
significantly if I don't act by 31 March.

Donations from individuals can also make the necessary amount. Donations
to the HBD Server Fund can be sent to PO Box 871309 Canton Township, MI
48187-6309

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All the best!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan
Chief Janitor, HBD.org





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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 21:04:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Sharon Bell <miss2ndlt at yahoo.com>
Subject: KNICKERBOCKER BEER

Hi,... My boyfriend and I live up here in northern california and have been 
looking all over for this knickerbocker beer. my guy went to a place in davis 
california where he tried out "knickerbocker" I was with him at the time, so 
i dont know exactly what this drink looks like.. all i know is they had it at 
that place. he's leaving for afganistan in a month and i wanted to get it as 
a gift for him for easter.
   
can you guys help me out and tell me where i can find this beer? where it is 
still being made and if i can purchase it.. thank you.



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