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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  more belgian yeast (Matt)
  Michael Jackson has passed away... (Todd Rambeck)
  Chris White's recommended pitching rate (Fred L Johnson)
  Fermentabilty of Wort WRT mash thickness (IT)" <stjones@eastman.com>


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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:23:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt <baumssl27 at yahoo.com>
Subject: more belgian yeast

1. WLP530 is not a brettanomyces.  Using brett as a primary fermenter
is a very strange experimental thing that only a few people are doing
these days.  Both White Labs and Wyeast sell some brettanomyces, but
those strains are named as such.  Your WLP530 is a saccharomyces very
similar to the yeast used at Westmalle, Achel, and Westvleteren.  

2. "I was curious mainly to know whether or not brewers filter the
primary/secondary yeast before introducing another strain."  The
purpose of adding more yeast is generally not to change the character
of the beer (unless the second strain is brettanomyces) but to provide
fresh, healthy yeast that will reliably carbonate the beer in the
bottle.  Sometimes this "bottling yeast" is the same strain as the
primary, and sometimes it's not.  Anyway the primary yeast is generally
removed not by filtration (which can harm the beer's character) but by
either natural settling or unnatural settling (centrifuge).  And the
only real reason it's removed is that you don't want near-dead yeast in
your bottles.  For lower gravity Belgian beers many homebrewers don't
add bottling yeast at all, treating these beers just like any other
ale.

3. I would be surprised if Val Dieu used anything other than a single
strain.  But be aware that their bottling strain could be different
from the primary strain that creates the character you like.  Some
breweries use a different strain for bottling due to convenience,
secrecy, or having a primary strain that doesn't perform well in the
bottle.  Anyway, adding your Val Dieu culture at bottling will probably
not make your beer taste much more like Val Dieu--for that you'd need
to use their yeast for primary fermentaion.

The book "Brew Like a Monk" answers a lot of these kinds of questions,
talks about various ways to use WLP530 and other yeasts, and even talks
about the Val Dieu beers.  You might want to check it out.

Matt



       


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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:07:44 -0700
From: Todd Rambeck <ph4ls3ph4c3 at comcast.net>
Subject: Michael Jackson has passed away...

His books, and TV show - The Beer Hunter - are what got me interested  
in both beer, and homebrewing. WE ARE diminished!!


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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:10:21 -0400
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Chris White's recommended pitching rate

A couple of weeks ago on The Brewing Network's Sunday show podcast,  
Chris White--or maybe it was his brother, Mike--of White Labs Yeast  
Company stated a few times that most of us are over pitching our ales  
when we pitch at the rate of 1 million cells/mL/degree Plato. He says  
that half that usually produces a better flavor profile. On the White  
Labs web site, the figure of 1 million/mL/degree Plato is often  
mentioned. On the podcast, White said the 1 million rate is a lager  
pitching rate. He claims Sierra Nevada pitches half this amount for  
their ales.

I have always tried to pitch at least at the 1 million rate and  
usually a bit more, with the (mis)understanding that this was the  
recommended minimum. This is the first time that I've hear that 1  
million/mL/degree Plato could be OVER pitching. As I think back to my  
early brewing days in which my starters were small or even  
nonexistent, I produced some very good beers back then and frankly  
have been a little disappointed in what I've been brewing more  
recently. Perhaps I'll cut back on my pitching rate.

Comments?

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:18:21 -0400
From: "Jones, Steve (IT)" <stjones at eastman.com>
Subject: Fermentabilty of Wort WRT mash thickness

On Brews n Views there was a comment made quoting John Palmer on this:
"The grist/water ratio is another factor influencing the performance 
of the mash. A thinner mash of >2 quarts of water per pound of grain 
dilutes the relative concentration of the enzymes, slowing the
conversion, 
but ultimately leads to a more fermentable mash because the enzymes are 
not inhibited by a high concentration of sugars."

This seemed counter to a discussion here years ago (when there was much 
more traffic here) that was about this same thing (but also including 
Temperature). I believe that -s was involved, and I have some data in a 
spreadsheet from that discussion. It has 2 tables - one with mash temps 
of 140F, 151F, and 155F, and shows the amount of each type of sugar 
(including dextrines) extracted from that mash. It also showed %extract,

and %fermentables. The second table showed these same parameters and 
values at mash thicknesses of 1.4, .81, and .61 qts/lb. The last table 
showed an average of %fermentables for each of the 9 combinations and 
ranked them, showing that the most fermentable wort was produced at 140F

and .81 qts/lb.

Does anyone remember that discussion, and the source of the data? I can 
post the tables if anyone is interested.


Steve Jones, Johnson City, TN
State of Franklin Homebrewers
http://www.franklinbrew.org





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