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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Oops ("A.J deLange")
  San Francisco ("Keith Anderson")
  Basic Brew (Richard Lynch)
  Re: Basic Brew (Scott Birdwell)
  Basic Brew ("LYLE C BROWN")


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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:30:37 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Oops

The second set of coefficients I posted yesterday gives the deviation of 
the density from 1 i.e. you must add 1 to the resulting value when these 
coefficients are inserted into a polynomial. Or you can just add 1 to K0 
making it 1.000030942 which is what I meant to do. The first set of 
coefficients is OK in this regard.


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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:35:55 -0400
From: "Keith Anderson" <keithxanderson at gmail.com>
Subject: San Francisco

Jay White asks:

>I'm heading out for a business/vacation trip next week and I'm and looking
>for
>suggestions of where to go for some good grog.  So far I have Russian River
>Brewing and Rogue's  Ales Public House in San Francisco and perhaps Anchor
>Brewing.  Welcome to hear what others recommend.  Wineries too!
>Thanks - Jay

>Or perhaps you can give me some hot spots to hit?

>Thanks - Jay
>white139 at comcast.net

Hi Jay,

Just got back from San Francisco a few weeks ago which makes 3x for
me.  The Anchor Brewing tour is great if you can make it there during
the week and get a reservation made.  They do an in depth tour of the
facilities and basically have a free open bar at the end.  ~8oz
glasses of all their beer on tap (plus refills if you like!) which is
more than you can drink unless you plan on camping out there and
walking back to where you are staying.  It is in the Potrero
neighborhood which isn't close to most of the tourist attractions so
you kind of have to go out of your way to get here.

Russian River is a decent (2hr?) drive out of San Francisco and would
be a good choice if you are already doing winery tours.  The long
drive prevented me from going since there is so much so do in the
city.  Rogue is a small-ish bar with a great tap selection and lots of
Rogue merchandise but not a memorable place.  Worth going for the beer
and shirts alone if you like Rogue beer but wouldn't go out of your
way to get there if you are not.

The Toronado is a great beer bar in lower haight and worth checking
out for the tap selection alone.  It is kind of a run-down dive bar
but the place has an amazing selection of everything (check out the
website).  I'd go in the afternoon to avoid the crowds and metal
music.  The sausage grill next door has the best sausage sandwiches i
have ever had and they will bring them to you in the bar to eat.  The
Magnolia brewpub is in Upper Haight and has great beer and pub type
food.  It is a long walk (lots of hills!) between Toronado and
Magnolia but if it is nice out and you want to see the sights it goes
quick.

I haven't made it to Zeitgeist but hear it is great also.  This is in
the mission district and is a dive bar with a great tap selection.
Friends tell me to go there on a nice day and sit outside, drink beer,
and get food from the BBQ.

Keith


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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:08:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard Lynch <rlny7575 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Basic Brew

Hey Matt, In response to your Basic Brew:

I too, like to make a quick, easy, and cheap brew (I
named my "Lowfunds' Pale Ale") once in awhile.  I do a
mini-mash to save little more money, since grain gives
you the highest fermentable sugar/money ratio -but all
extract is probably pretty close in terms of money
I've spent.  Northern Brewer is offering 3lb bags of
Organic DME for $10.50 right now, btw.  
Here's what I typically use for my budget brews:
Sugars:
~ 5 lbs. of Amber DME (if your not going to steep
crystal) If you've *got* to save money you can use
dextrose (corn sugar), or even table  sugar to no ill
effect, just don't overdo it - stay under 10% of the
total weight of your fermentable sugars and you
shouldn't notice the flavor difference.
Yeast:
Coopers Dried Yeast - This is my maybe my favorite dry
yeast because it's cheap, it smells *awesome* when you
rehydrate, gives a nicely rounded, ever-so-slight
bready-woody-fruity flavor to the beer, and clears
pretty well.  
 -or-
Safale US05 - I think this was called US56 at some
point.  Gives a really clean smooth, soft flavor.
I'd steer clear of Danstar Nottingham yeast - It made
my beers to dry and harsh tasting.

Hops:
You can get away tweaking the sugars, but without hops
your not going to make something which tastes like
beer, so: Whatever is strong (high alpha-acid%) for
bittering so you need less, although I've had bad
results from using Galena - it can give harshly bitter
and metallic taste. Cascades are usually pretty cheap
and easy to find, and are an excellent choice of aroma
hop if you want that citrusy, grapefruity IPA flavor. 
Centennial, Goldings, Hallertau, and Fuggles are also
all very nice aroma hops for ales I've found.

Good luck!
Rich






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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:53:28 -0500
From: Scott Birdwell <defalcos at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Basic Brew

Michael O'Donnell is trying to help Matt produce better tasting  
beer.  Here are his comments below:

> Matt, if you are really looking to minimize cost, I'd suggest that you
> switch to all-grain. Lots of people will say that going to fancy  
> liquid
> yeast is critical, but I'd definitely stick with dry yeast over  
> skipping
> hops (Your recipe will make Zima, I think. Ok if you are just looking
> for some fermented ethanol, but not really beer.)
>
> Here's a dirt-simple and cheap recipe.
> Buying 9 lbs of base malt and a pound of crystal malt will set you  
> back
> about $15
> 4 oz of cascade hops will go for ~$6.
> Add a package of dry yeast for $2 and you've got 5 gallons of  
> drinkable
> beer for <$25. In fact, if you go to www.morebeer.com or
> northernbrewer.com, you'll find plenty of all-grain kits for <$20...
> about 10-20% cheaper than a comparable extract kit.
>
> Going into your homebrew store and choosing the the hops and grains by
> what is cheap is another way to make it cheaper (but, given that the
> whole thing is only $20, about the most you might save is a $1 here or
> there)... If Magnum hops are cheaper than Cascade or Glacier hops  
> are on
> special sale, buy whichever. Your beer will taste different, but it  
> will
> still be OK.

I guess you can save money by going all-grain, but you better be  
patient and better have lots of time to brew.  Extract and grain can  
easily be brewed in an hour and a half to two hours, while all-grain  
tends to take four to six hours.  Currently, the raw ingredients for  
all-grain brewing are noticeably less expensive than extract and  
grain, but the gap may be closing in the near future.  Grains are  
currently going up in price by 40 - 80% across the board.  Bio-Fuel  
production has enticed malting barley farmers to dump barley in favor  
of cheap, profitable corn.  Poor crops, especially in Europe, are  
driving international pricing sky high.  Hops are even worse, with  
the price doubling, even tripling on certain varieties.  Some  
varieties (Magnum being one, may not be available at any price.   
We've been in a hop shortage for a couple of years now and the  
strategic national hop reserve is depleted.  We've spent  
approximately $5,000 with one hop broker alone over the past 12  
months, and they are telling me they have nothing to sell me for the  
next year!  Poor weather, combined with hop farmers giving up because  
of low profit margins are driving these prices.  Now obviously the  
extract manufacturers are buying grain and hop products, too.   
Therefore the extract will be going up, too.  However, these  
manufacturers, like many of the breweries, are contracting for malt  
and hops for years to come and with their buying power, they will be  
hit a less hard than your typical local homebrew shop.  Processing,  
packaging, and shipping costs play a bigger role in extract  
production, too, so if the price of grain goes up 50%, the price of  
extract may go up 10 or 15%.  Stay tuned for developments.  This  
seems to be the topic on the tip of everyone's lips in our industry  
right now.  It's not a good thing, but it's the way it is.

Scott Birdwell
DeFalco's Home Wine & Beer Supplies
Houston TX


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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 20:00:53 -0400
From: "LYLE C BROWN" <beerking1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Basic Brew

Matt,

You ask about making a "basic brew," which can mean many things to many
people.
It would help if you gave us some indication what style or what your primary
goal is. Some might think of a "basic" stout, or a "basic" pale ale, while
others may think you are looking to make the cheapest beer you can (presumably
still drinkable). Then again, you may be looking to find the simplest beer to
make. 

You mention using the only yeast available at your local shop, but don't
specify
anything about it. Is it dry or liquid? Brand? As long as you are not using
the
"free" packet attached to the lid of the can of extract, it is probably
alright,
but again, it depends.

Although it will save you money, I would omit the dextrose in favor of more
malt.
It will thin out your beer, and detract from the fine malt flavors. You are
not
using too much, so if that is what you are after, that is OK. Again, it
depends
what style of beer you prefer.

Give us a little more details and I am sure there are many here who can
assist.


Lyle C. Brown
Beerking1 at verizon.net



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