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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Moldy fridge (rhampo)
  Re: Galena ("Jeremy Bergsman")
  rice (leavitdg)
  brewing book (fredscheer07)
  Diacetyl   part 1 A (fredscheer07)
  Diacetyl (fredscheer07)
  re: Ancient History Revealed! (Mark Tumarkin)
  wlp568 saison blend (Aaron Martin Linder)
  Samichlaus ("Lyle C. Brown")
  bread baking (David Scheidt)
  no knead (Thomas Rohner)
  Incredible head foam stability (Fred L Johnson)
  Foundation Space ("LANCE HARBISON")
  Re-Using Iodophor Solutions (Nathan Hirneisen)


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JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 20:25:47 -0600
From: rhampo at wowway.com
Subject: Moldy fridge

Hello HBD universe! I have resubscribed again after several years of 
less than enough time for brewing (Shame on me).

Anyway, glad to see that Pat and company are still taking care of business.

Speaking of business, I have a wierd issue. I have had a keggerator for at 
least 10 years. A few weeks ago when removing a dead soldier, I found what 
looks like mold spots all over the inside - including on the beer and
CO2 tubing and the top of the keg. Where did it come from? I had no liquid,
no leaks, no nothing!

Even more important, does anyone have a suggestion for cleaning/sanitizing
the fridge so this doesn't recurr and spoil my beer? Is there any way to 
somehow "fumigate" to get into all the nooks and crannies (like inside the
evaporator coil, tap tower, etc)?
I will surely remove the tubing and disassemble and clean and santize
the beer and gas fittings.

Thanks for your suggestions!

Happy Brewing

Richard Hampo
Plymouth, Michigan.




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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:09:55 -0800
From: "Jeremy Bergsman" <jeremy at bergsman.org>
Subject: Re: Galena

Fred,

I don't know what HSI is, but I have experienced this on multiple
occasions with different batches of hops.  It's not just me but
obviously it's not everyone or nobody would ever brew with Galena.
It's just a factoid that was rattling around in my head that the two
Galena suggestions prompted me to post about.  Or, as they say around
here, YMMV.


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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 07:46:47 -0500
From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu
Subject: rice

Paul, et al;

 I have used rice for several years, but usually the flaked rice that has
already been galatinized.  I wonder: what are your views on the final product
with rice versus corn?  I have also used flaked corn, and, for some reason I
prefer the final flavor of corn in a CAP than rice.  I am not quite sure what
words to put on the flavor difference, perhaps slightly "sweeter" at the end,
ie not as dry with rice.

 I wonder, Jeff, and others who do this regularly: what are the final taste
differences that you perceive with rice as opposed to corn?

Darrell




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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:02:27 +0000
From: fredscheer07 at comcast.net
Subject: brewing book

HI Matt:

I believe that the Brewing book "Brewing" by Lewis and Young
is for the buck the best you can get.
The whole book is practical and scientific at the same time.

Fred Scheer



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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:57:28 +0000
From: fredscheer07 at comcast.net
Subject: Diacetyl   part 1 A

So,what can be done to have the proper level of diacetyl:
*Very vigourus boil, never less than 75 minutes.
I don't care if you hear the "60 minutes" boil, don't believe it !!!!!!!!
*If necessary, get some yeast nutrients, they help altimes giving your yeast
enough nutrients, or let's say, the more proper nutrients, such as Zink.
*If needed, start your fermentation with a warmer temperature (especially 
Lagers),
to increase the yeast metabolism, which in return will have a Diacetyl 
reduction.

PART II follows

Fred S


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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:58:24 +0000
From: fredscheer07 at comcast.net
Subject: Diacetyl

Here I  am again:

Diacetyl is also caused by infections, bacterial infections, mostly by SARCINA.
In most cases I found that Diacety caused by infections could be traced back
to the end of the fermentation and most times associated by the yeast used.
Eliminate a delay in start of fermentation. Allow yeast to properly
start to work by increasing your pitching temperature, avoid over-oxygenation 
your wort,
and most of all:  KEEP IT CLEAN AND SANITARY.



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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:17:01 -0500
From: Mark Tumarkin <tumarkin at hogtownbrewers.org>
Subject: re: Ancient History Revealed!

Pat & all,
I am also a long time reader of the HBD. In recent years
 I've hardly posted at all, but I look for the HBD in my email
 every morning. The things many of you have said in regards
 to Pat's post resonate with me, they are in accord with my own thoughts.

Like Jeff, I am a member of the AHA Governing Committee.
When I first ran for election I was fairly unknown outside Florida
 & I credit the HBD community with my election. The HBD
hosted my club website (Hogtown Brewers) for many years.
I've also made & later met many friends through the HBD.
It would be a shame if the HBD were to go away.
It's been an important part of our lives for a long time. We
owe Pat & the other janitors a huge debt for their endeavors.

I have emailed Gary Glass and the AHA GC in regards to
 the HBD situation & suggested that the HBD could be mirrored
on the AHA server. I believe that  Gary and/or Tim Sloan
(the AHA IT guy) should already be in contact with Pat on this.
The AHA brewing list, TechTalk, has grown tremendously over
the last several years. This growth has been at the same time as traffic
on the HBD has slacked off. While I'm gratified that TechTalk
has grown into an active & useful resource, it is only available
to AHA members (though I haven't been a regular poster there
either). I truly hope that the growth of TechTalk hasn't been the
cause of the HBD's slowdown. I suspect that it is one of a number
of factors. At anyrate, like all of us, I hope that HBD can continue
for many years.

Pat,
Without having a sponsor for HBD, how much do you need
each year to keep the HBD afloat? I will send a check. I used
to do that regularly, and have my club do that as well. I will
make a donation to the Server Fund again. Others have said
they will as well. Maybe we can turn this around ..... both
financially & with increased traffic.

Mark Tumarkin
Hogtown Brewers
Gainesville, FL





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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:27:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Aaron Martin Linder <lindera at umich.edu>
Subject: wlp568 saison blend

Darrell wrote:

   I have just sampled the wlp 568 Beigian Saison (Blend) as I took a 
sample for <the hydrometer, on its way into secondary.  Boy what nice 
flavor!  Have any of <you used this and did you find the gravity not going 
as low as you <wished? I am not sure if it is just "yeasty" or if I taste 
an almost'lambic'/sour flavor in this yeast.

- ------

I tried this yeast a few months ago and was very disappointed with it.  I 
started it at 68F and let it ramp up to 82F as I have done for the wlp 565 
in the past.  the resulting beer had a strange flavor.  it wasn't nearly 
as good as 565.  it was sort of sour and somewhat off-putting.  it tasted 
like it had a slight infection, but i doubt that it did.  as for 
attentuation, mine was a bit disappointing.  maybe it didn't like the hot 
temps?  it seemed like it slowed down as i pushed it past about 78F.  it 
was about 79% AA for a 1.061 beer with about 7 points worth of corn sugar. 
i would expect 80-85% AA!

Darrell, what were your fermentation temps.


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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:50:31 -0500
From: "Lyle C. Brown" <beerking1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Samichlaus

There have been questions about this great beer, 
and several correct answers. 

In reference to the earlier mention of the beer 
not being brewed since 1986, I think someone is 
getting the information off the "new" HELLES 
that was released last month. That label claims 
it is the first time since 1986 that the helles 
has been brewed.

The dark Samichlaus was dropped for a few years 
in the late 90s, but I think it was only gone <4 
years. I doubt the reference on the label to the 
first brewing of the helles since 1986. I don't 
have any left, but I am certain I remember 
having had some of the helles from the early 90s 
when Hurlimann was brewing.

Lyle



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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:13:15 -0500
From: David Scheidt <dscheidt at panix.com>
Subject: bread baking

> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 06:54:37 -0800
> From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Know Knead?
> 
> I'm not sure I understand what this means:
> 
> > You may be surprised at the impact
> > of merely wrapping the dough 4x on the texture.
> 
> I'd love to make bread here at home, and have a new oven that does
> conventional and convection (which one is best for baking?), but I'm not
> sure how I can inject steam into it so as to get that wonderful crust.
> Would a pan of water on the oven floor do it (gas oven), or does it take
> more steam than that?

It doesn't take much steam, but it takes it at the right time.  What I
do is put a large cast iron skillet in on the bottom rack (with a
sealed burner, you could put it on the floor, maybe?) when I preheat
the oven.  You want something that has a lot of thermal mass, and
won't warp.  When I put the bread in, I toss a couple ice cubes in the
skillet.  That gives steam as the ice melts and the water flashes off
the skillet.  That's much easier and safer than trying to pour boiling
water into the oven, which is what I see in cookbooks.  

My oven is a pretty crappy one, and doesn't have much thermal mass.
When I open the oven, the temperature drops, and takes a long time to
recover.  So, I keep a baking stone in it when baking bread, even if
i'm baking in loaf pans.  For stuff that gets baked at fairly high
temperature, I'll preheat the oven at 550F (higest temperature
setting) and turn it to what I'm baking at (400 or 450, usually) when
I'm about to put things in it.  

Convection modes can be use to make great bread, but cooking times and
often temperature have to be adjusted, both down.  I have little
experience with it, though.  


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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:53:18 +0100
From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch>
Subject: no knead

Hi Mike

it seems we have brewers here, who know how to bake as well ;-)
I will give you my observations from my 15 years of homebaking.
If you think of the gluten-protein like a spiral spring, that you 
stretch during kneading, folding it just gives it some more tension. If 
you knead it sufficiently, folding is not necessary. A single fold 
doesn't hurt 30 to 60 minutes after kneading. The less you knead, the 
more folds are appropriate. Although i didn't try no knead breads, my 
boss started to do it after he was in Ireland for some golfing and 
didn't get decent bread in closeby stores. He only mixed the ingredients 
in the evening, and baked the bread in the morning. The bread we both 
like to make, is made from a very moist dough. (80% water)
This dough is so moist, you can't fold it. I let it "flow" out of the 
proofing bowl, and shape it with my hands dipped in cold water. Then i 
have to put it into the oven quickly, otherwise it would flow too wide.
What is really important, is a hot oven. I have two electric ovens and a 
wood fired clay oven i built myself last summer. I heat it up to 535F 
with a "pizza stone", then let it fall to 425F during the bake. With 
such a moist dough, you don't really have to care much for steam. They 
get a wonderfull oven spring, without even ripping. (remarkable given 
the fact, that i can't give it a final proof after shaping)
The oven i use is rather small, but i can heat it up to 572F. My main 
oven has a built in steam generator, but i can only heat it up to 450F. 
I use it for croissants and braided breads, that have butter and eggs in 
the dough. Or generally for less moist doughs. I'm just firing up my 
clay oven to bake some "Flammkuchen" with my brew buddies this 
afternoon. I bake pizza and flammkuchen in the range of 670F in 5 or so 
minutes.
If you like to see it, go to instructables.com and search for "pizza 
oven"... (it's a really cool site for us tinkerers anyway, although this 
was rather hard work, than tinkering)
If you like to inject steam, put a heavy skillet on the oven floor, let 
it heat up, then throw some ice cubes or not too much water in, just 
before you put the dough in(you want it to boil instantly). But this 
won't help much in terms of crust building. The high humidity helps in 
delaying the building of a crust, since it will condense on the "cold" 
dough and prevent the building of a crust during the oven spring. So 
after about 4-5 minutes into the bake, you need to vent the steam off, 
if you like a crunchy crust. I vent it 3-4 times more during the bake 
and get a really crunchy crust. The most important thing for a good 
crust is a relatively high moisture content in the dough and a high oven 
temp in the beginning of the bake. With a high moisture content, i mean 
in the range from 60 to 80% water by weight to the weight of the four. 
As a next important thing, the amount of yeast given in most receipes or 
on yeast packages is about 4 times too high. Especially if you give it a 
long proofing, 1-2% of the weight of the flour is more than adequate.
The proofing button in your oven will bring it into the range from 77F 
to 95F. I seldom use it, or would you ferment a lager at 70F? I like to 
have a long ferment, or i use a 40% preferment.
Otherwise, i have one hint left: Do bake, it's very rewarding. It's so 
contagious, my brew buddies started to bake as well. (it's fun having 
your selfmade pretzels with a nice brew and a weisswurst)
I still have lots to learn, but it's worth it and it's fun.
I recently bought a bread baking machine, i don't use it for baking(no 
crust and ugly shape...), but it's cool for having a dough ready kneaded 
and proofed in the morning. I don't have to get up at 4 in the morning 
to bake a bread at 8 o'clock. If you intend to buy one, take a "Unold" 
brand. As far as i know, it's the only one that has a "free program" 
feature. That means besides the fixed programs, you really can program 
the kneading, proofing, degassing and if you really like, bake it in 
this machine. I have bought a panasonic, it's of good quality but lacks 
the "free" programmability. If i want to make a "timed" dough, i have to 
use the bake program and zap the power before it starts to bake.

Cheers and crunch

Thomas


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Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:38:42 -0500
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Incredible head foam stability

I was on was on a plane the other day with the usual poor selection  
of beers. I had a Michelob (or maybe it was a Miller Genuine Draft)  
and I was impressed with the incredibly persistent head on this beer.  
The foam on this was so thick at the crown of the head that I could  
have spread it on toast.

Considering the low malt and hopping level of this beer, I assume the  
brewer has added something to produce this meringue-like foam. I know  
of some agents, Profoam for one, that are used for improving head  
retention. Does anyone know what Anheuser-Busch (or Miller) is using  
in this beer?

Fred L Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 10:22:54 -0500
From: "LANCE HARBISON" <harbison65 at verizon.net>
Subject: Foundation Space

While reading in the Northern Brewer catalogue about false bottoms it is 
mentioned that minimizing the distance below the false bottom will increase 
efficiency.  I am trying to understand why.  I use a converted Sanke and my 
false bottom rests on a shoulder of the keg where it transitions from 
cylinder to bottom dome.  This makes it about 3 inches above the bottom of 
the keg.  I have installed a bottom drain in the keg.

When I mash I account for the water below the false bottom and add that 
volume to the total mash volume (typically 1 qt. per lb).  When I sparge I 
keep sparging until I collect what I need in the boiler.  I have not run 
into any issues with low gravity runnings.  I typically get 75 - 80% 
efficiency.  Is the foundation space BS with my system?

Lance Harbison 




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Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:17:19 -0500
From: Nathan Hirneisen <cave_nate at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re-Using Iodophor Solutions


for how long can one reuse a Iodophor
sanitizing solution. 1oz to 5 gallons wasser.

It was said to me that as long as the solution
is brown and smells like iodine, is is good to use.

really?
2 recent batched with notable DMS (celery like)
flavors make me wander.

thanks,

 -Nate

 .


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