HOMEBREW Digest #529 Fri 02 November 1990

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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Conversion brew/Bass substitute (Tony Rossini)
  RE: Beer Hunter Tapes (Barry Cunningham)
  Carp Ale (Danny-Boy)
  Legal Issues in 'Bama (jbergmann)
  55 gallon trash container   (card)
  Carp Ale recipe (as I did it)... (Gary Mason  01-Nov-1990 1151)
  Romulan ale (Chip Hitchcock)
  Flowers in beers (Craig L. Flowers)
  Re: Cherries in the Snow (Andrius Tamulis)
  Plastic Bottles (dreger)
  Homebrew Comps (Rad Equipment)
  Weights and measures (Mike Charlton)
  Homebrew Comps (Rad Equipment)
  Homebrew Digest #528 (November 01, 1990) (Dave Brown)
  Length of Homebrew Digest (Carol J. Botteron)
  Oregon Brewwater (Marc San Soucie)
  AHA Club Competitons (synchro!chuck)
  re: AHA National Competition (a bit long)) (synchro!chuck)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 08:14:26 EST >From: rossini%biostat at endor.harvard.edu (Tony Rossini) Subject: Conversion brew/Bass substitute > Since my virgin batch turned out so well, and since it was supposed to be a > poor man's substitute for Bass, I'd recommend Carp Ale. The recipe is from the > Z... special issue (1986?) on extract brewing. Recipe is by Russ Schehrer. > I'd insert the recipe, but it isn't with me. Ask if you want it. It was pretty > simple and inexpensive as well. I'd appreciate a copy if you get around to typing it in! Thanks, -tony (rossini at biostat.harvard.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 07:44:51 EST >From: abvax!calvin.icd.ab.com!bwc at uunet.UU.NET (Barry Cunningham) Subject: RE: Beer Hunter Tapes I got my copy of the Beer Hunter tapes about 2 weeks ago. The thing that I found most enjoyable about them was the fact that they contained NO commercials. This makes an immense difference in the mood of the shows (or at least in my mood while watching the shows). For me, the price is absolutely worth it: for ~ $36 I get 3 hours of Michael Jackson doing a nice relaxed show with no commercials (conducive to RDWHAHB), Michel Jackson's Pocket Guide to Beer, and the use back of the video tape on which I had taped some of the Beer Hunter episodes with commercials. But then I'm an overpaid techno-weenie in a MINK household. If I were still a starving student, my values might be different. | Barry Cunningham {cwjcc,pyramid,decvax,uunet}!bwc at icd.ab.com | | Allen-Bradley Company, Inc. or ICCGCC::CUNNINGHAM | | 747 Alpha Drive or BWCUNNIN at MRGSD at REMNET | | Highland Hts., OH 44143 phone: (216) 646-5241 FAX: (216) 646-4484 | Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 09:00:13 -0500 >From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Danny-Boy) Subject: Carp Ale Gary Mason--I tried to email, but it bounced. I would like to get a copy of the recipe you mentioned--sounds like a very worthwhile brew. Regarding my cidery-ale: thanks for all the comments. In our rush to blame something other than the recipe, we forgot that we introduced another variable. This was our first try with Red Star ale yeast. We've had close to stellar results with their lager yeast, but this stuff is taking much longer to mature. I guess you get marginal yeasties and give them corn sugar to munch on, and out come the appley smells and tastes. Temperatur of fermentation was in the 65-70 degree range--probably closer to 65. Yours etc. Danny-Boy Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 90 09:19:00 PDT >From: jbergmann at aqlan.ssc.af.mil Subject: Legal Issues in 'Bama Howdy, Well, I've brewed my first batch, didn't worry, and it came out just fine :). However, it seems that Murphy has it in for me, and not two days after my unveiling, the Montgomery Advertiser ran a story about some bootleggers that were caught with some 500 gallons of moonshine. The story went on to say that: '...According to the Alabama Beverage Control Board (ABC), it is legal to make up to five gallons of wine a year at home, distillation of liquor and beer is illegal in Alabama...' Now this caught my eye rather quickly. Now I know that it is illegal to distill spirits and all, and at first I assumed either a misprint or that for some reason they were telling us that distilling beer was illegal. (Why would anyone want to distill beer???). So I called the local ABC office in Montgomery, and spoke with one of the agents in enforcement. He said: '... yea, that's right. You cannot make beer at home in Alabama...' Needless to say, this caused me grief. When I asked him about the availability of ingredients, supplies, etc., he said it was the same as rolling papers and other paraphenalia, legal to have, not to use. He went on to say that, yes, the federal government made it legal in th 70's, but that the Alabama legislature never got around to putting it on the books. So I come to you, oh brewnet, HELP!!!!!!!!! Was this guy speaking truth to me, or just blowing smoke. I know that there are several home brewers in Huntsville, and really need to know if the revenuers are going to break down my door and steal my yummy beers. Any input would be most appreciated... Relaxing and not worrying (too much), Johnny B. Internet: jbergmann at aqlan.ssc.af.mil (Standard disclaimer, etc.) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 10:36:09 EST >From: card at APOLLO.HP.COM Subject: 55 gallon trash container Jeffrey Blackman's "6 Cooks Ale" brewed in a 55 gallon trash container sounds like a great idea for large batches. Why not? You could even complete primary fermantation in it to reduce risk of contamination (to say nothing about simplicity). Just drill a hole in the cover for the air lock stopper and you've effectively got a closed fermentation vessel. Also, pitching temp could be reached very fast if you pre-cool boiled water before brewing. Perhaps Mike Schrempp could could really get scientific but my simple averaging "algorithm" :- ( never claimed to be a math whizz) says: 15 gallon batch ******************* START: 12 GALLONS 45F + 3 GALLONS 210F ---------------------- 15 GALLONS 78 F /Mal (I better start saving bottles) Card Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 08:53:38 PST >From: Gary Mason 01-Nov-1990 1151 <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com> Subject: Carp Ale recipe (as I did it)... I have had several requests for this, so here it is! The recipe is based upon Russ Schehrer's Carp ale from the 1986 Zymurgy special issue. 3.0 # M&F Light DME 3.0 # M&F Amber DME 1.0 # Crystal malt 2.6 oz Fuggles at 4.7% = 12.22 AAU 1.0 oz Kent Goldings at 5.9% = 5.9 AAU Pinch of Irish Moss 1 pkt Brewer's Choice #1098 (British Ale - Jun 90) Started the yeast in 1 qt of sterile starter medium (1 C M&F Amber DME in 1 qt water). That was about 28 hrs after breaking the inner seal, and about 10 hrs before beginning the initial boil. Less than 12 hours to full kraeusen cover on the starter (the starter container was a 1 gal cider jar fitted with a <" ID blowoff tube). Bring 2< gal water to boil with crystal (crushed with a rolling pin) in a bag. Remove crystal when the boil starts (about 60'). Fill to 6< gal, add DME, and bring to a boil. After boiling 10 min, add Fuggles. At 55 min, add a pinch of Irish Moss. At 58 min add Kent Goldings. Cool with immersion chiller to 800 (about 18' - only racked about 4= gal into the primary). Pitch the yeast. Ferment at about 700 for a week. Rack to the secondary (about 4< gal - found that the fermentation was already complete). Rack to the keg (5 days later) with 1= pt of sterile starter. Hops might be a little light; mouth feel could be greater; the brew is cloudy . Slightly strange nose, but not objectionable. FG 1.016. Cheers...Gary P.S. I have lost the mail from one requester, so if you don't get this by E-mail, you know who you are 8') Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 11:30:27 EST >From: cjh at vallance.eng.ileaf.com (Chip Hitchcock) Subject: Romulan ale Color: I wouldn't be sure of anything giving you that sapphire color naturally. You could try steeping cornflower petals after the boil, but I wouldn't bet on either flavor or color. Note that blueberries are blue only on the outside; anything containing blueberry pulp gets a dark purplish-red color. The idea of mashing with blue corn is interesting, but I wouldn't bet on preserving even the muddy blue I've seen in blue-corn chips; it could be eaten by enzymes or coagulated with the trub (cf exhibit at Carlsberg, which identified a major component of chill haze as being the same substance that turns rhododendrons red---they were trying to gene-splice barley with snips from albino rhododendrons). Style: from the way the blue stuff was handled (1 inch in a 1-foot flute, no head) I'd say whoever thought of the stuff thought "ale" just meant "exotic alcohol"; if the servings were that small it was probably as strong as whiskey. So you'd need to start with some Romulan yeast that could ferment to 40% alcohol.... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 11:47:13 CST >From: flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu (Craig L. Flowers) Subject: Flowers in beers >Someone recently posted a question about using flowers in brewing. >.... Well, from the person who ought to know, let me take a quote from a famous oldie (can't remember singer or title): "If this is what it feels like to be used, use me till I'm all used up." I like to think there's a little part of me in every beer I brew. -Craig FLOWERS (flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu) Sorry gang, couldn't pass it up. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 12:15:54 CST >From: tamulis at dehn.math.nwu.edu (Andrius Tamulis) Subject: Re: Cherries in the Snow The only way I know of to shorten the aging time for certain brews that require it is to have plenty of faster-aging brew available. It helps pass the time. Andrius. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 10:29:05 PST >From: dreger at seismo.gps.caltech.edu Subject: Plastic Bottles All this plastic bottle talk has interested me. I'm a kegger but when you want to bring some beer somewhere having a smaller container is nice. I was wondering if anyone has experience in bottling kegged beer into one of those 1 to 2 litre plastic bottles. I don't have a counter pressure filler, and am also wondering if simply filling from the bottom using an extension on the tap is sufficient to limit contaimination and OXIDATION, or should the beer be quickly consumed after bottling? Thanks Doug Dreger Return to table of contents
Date: 1 Nov 89 11:19:10 >From: Rad Equipment <Rad_Equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU> Subject: Homebrew Comps REGARDING Homebrew Comps In response to Craig Flowers' comments on the "competitive" aspects of homebrewing in HBD #528: I couldn't agree with you more as far as "Winning" being the focus of homebrew competitions. However, the underlying and primary basis for these competitions is supposed to be feedback to the brewer about his/her beer. I do not enter many competitions, because as a rule I am too lazy to bottle my beer. Also, I have plenty of local HB'ers to come by to give me feedback. Many brewers who are more isolated may find the comps helpful when looking for pointers about their products. This is why the BJCP stresses the need for the judge to suggest possible problem areas to the brewer when trying to identify the cause of a particular flaw. I do enjoy judging at the comps. It provides me with a reason for honing my skills and developing my palate, beyond examining my own beers. It also allows me a chance to see what a wider range of brewers are doing with their skills, often giving me something to aspire to. What bothers me about the competitions is the weight put on the "Winning" especially when the AHA bestows the title of "Homebrewer of the Year" on the Best of Show winner from the National each year. To me, such a title should encompass much more selection criteria than merely a single batch of beer! I make no slight of past winners' achievements, however, I think things should be changed in the future, the very least of which should be dropping the title from the comp. The whole idea behind a hobby is to have fun, or at least enjoy doing it, yes? The prizes and recognition at competitions are completely secondary to me. They are gravy! Even the social aspects of the events are more important to me. The fact that some people take winning as the primary reason for their being homebrewers can get in the way at times, however if I concentrate on my reasons for being there and not theirs', I can live with it. There is plenty of room in the homebrewing community for all points of view. As long as you enjoy what you're doing, who cares? May the yeast be with you... Russ Wigglesworth... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 13:21:33 CST >From: Mike Charlton <umcharl3 at ccu.UManitoba.CA> Subject: Weights and measures Since I seem to have gaffed about the size of fluid oz., I figured I'd better check my facts. Here is a table showing the relative sizes of different weights and measures. The data for Imperial measurements are from Dave Line's "Big Book of Brewing" and the data for US measurements are from "The New York Times Cook Book" by Craig Claiborne. One thing to note: Line's measurements aren't very precise (ie. they are rounded off). Dry Ingredients - --------------- Grams as Grams as # ounces US oz. Imp oz. - ------------- ---------- ------- 1 28.35 ~30 4 113.40 113 8 226.80 226 16 (1 pound) 453.60 453 80 (5 pounds) 2270 2267 The column marked ounces gives the number of ounces (US and Imperial). The columns marked Grams as * oz. give the number of grams if you take the oz. as being * (either US or imperial) oz. I think it is fairly clear from the table that for weight 1 imperial oz. is the same as 1 US oz. and that 1 imperial pound = 1 US pound (at least I got something right :-)). Liquid Ingredients - -------------------- ml as ml as # ounces US oz. Imp oz. - --------------- ---------- --------- 1 29.573 28 8 (US 1/2 pint) 236.59 224 (*) 10 (Imp 1/2 pint) 295.73 284 16 (US pint) 473 448 (*) 20 (Imp pint) 592 (*) 568 (*) - These values are not listed in the books I consulted. I just multiplied from a previous entry in the table. I think it is also clear that 1 fluid oz. US is NOT EQUAL to 1 fluid oz. imperial. I am willing to accept 25/24 US:Imperial as a reasonable value (not having a calculator handy). Please note in the above table, the 224 oz. Imperial is NOT 1/2 US pint and that 295.73 oz. US is NOT 1/2 Imperial pint since we have shown the sizes of the ounces to be different. The references to pints are just handy if you want to know how many oz. of the same units are in the pint of that unit system. Mike Charlton (the completely confused) Return to table of contents
Date: 1 Nov 89 14:00:41 >From: Rad Equipment <Rad_Equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU> Subject: Homebrew Comps REGARDING Homebrew Comps In response to Craig Flowers' comments on the "competitive" aspects of homebrewing in HBD #528: I couldn't agree with you more as far as "Winning" being the focus of homebrew competitions. However, the underlying and primary basis for these competitions is supposed to be feedback to the brewer about his/her beer. I do not enter many competitions, because as a rule I am too lazy to bottle my beer. Also, I have plenty of local HB'ers to come by to give me feedback. Many brewers who are more isolated may find the comps helpful when looking for pointers about their products. This is why the BJCP stresses the need for the judge to suggest possible problem areas to the brewer when trying to identify the cause of a particular flaw. I do enjoy judging at the comps. It provides me with a reason for honing my skills and developing my palate, beyond examining my own beers. It also allows me a chance to see what a wider range of brewers are doing with their skills, often giving me something to aspire to. What bothers me about the competitions is the weight put on the "Winning" especially when the AHA bestows the title of "Homebrewer of the Year" on the Best of Show winner from the National each year. To me, such a title should encompass much more selection criteria than merely a single batch of beer! I make no slight of past winners' achievements, however, I think things should be changed in the future, the very least of which should be dropping the title from the comp. The whole idea behind a hobby is to have fun, or at least enjoy doing it, yes? The prizes and recognition at competitions are completely secondary to me. They are gravy! Even the social aspects of the events are more important to me. The fact that some people take winning as the primary reason for their being homebrewers can get in the way at times, however if I concentrate on my reasons for being there and not theirs', I can live with it. There is plenty of room in the homebrewing community for all points of view. As long as you enjoy what you're doing, who cares? May the yeast be with you... Russ Wigglesworth... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 14:11:37 PST >From: brown at ocelot.llnl.gov (Dave Brown) Subject: Homebrew Digest #528 (November 01, 1990) Kevin of gozer writes: - ---------------------- In Homebrew Digest #527, Paul L. Kelly <pkel at psych.purdue.edu> writes: Yes! I would love to make Romulan Ale! Some friends who are fans of my beer are also BIG Star Trek fans. I think that this would be a HUGE hit in the right cirlces. I seem to recall that Romulan Ale is blue. Is that right? What interesting flavors might a Romulan Ale have? Would it be real strong? Yes, I think it would knock your socks off, and thats not counting the after taste! A friend of mine made Goat Scrotum(sp) Ale. That stuff was rude the first few months. I think if you added some more nasty stuff like molasses, brown sugar and other adjuncts, as well as a lot of dextrin to make it thick you would have the right start. You would want to keep the amount of dark malts down, so that you could get the blue color. Oh, kick in about a pound or two of honey to just to get the alcohol up. I wonder if the blue coloring would come out in the wort if one were to mash a certain amount of blue corn? Don't think so. Perhaps blueberries would work too, but I don't expect that those overly manly Romulans would drink Ale that tasted like fruit. Remember, Worf liked PRUNE JUICE. (O.K. so he's a KLINGON, they're both mean and nasty) I think any recipe for Romulan Ale should include Prune Juice. As for the Color, if you want blue, blueberry's got my vote. First you can't always tell what a beer will taste like based on what fruit you put in. Some fruit tastes just don't come through in the final product -- this I know from brewing fruited beers. Secondly, that blue in blueberry is intense, so you wouldn't have to add a lot of it to get a blue beer. However, if you want a blood-black color blackberry works well. looking forward to concocting a recipe for Romulan Ale. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- David S. Brown | This is not the official word of... brown at ocelot.llnl.gov | Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories .__ / .__ | P.O. Box 808, 7000 East Av L-619 | \ \ |__) | Livermore CA 94550 ME(415) 423-9878 |__/ / |__) | beer at ocelot.llnl.gov FAX(415) 294-5054 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 17:52:01 EST >From: botteron at bu-it.BU.EDU (Carol J. Botteron) Subject: Length of Homebrew Digest Would it be possible for HD issues to be smaller (and more frequent)? #528 is over 1000 lines long. Much as I enjoy HD, I can't read all of every issue, and it's frustrating to see an irresistable topic in the Contents and have to skim 950 lines to get to it. Not trying to make extra work for the list keeper, but shorter HDs would be nice. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 09:35:28 PST >From: winter%cirrusl at oliveb.ATC.olivetti.com (Keith Winter) Someone asked (I forgot to save the name :-( ): >I tried to culture some Sierra Nevada yeast (what a great beer!) using a >modified version of the method in TCJOHB, but it didn't catch. Is the yeast >possibly too far gone to start up again? I have no idea how old the beer is >or how it has been handled. I've got two more bottles of SN Pale Ale, and >I'd really like to get some yeast from them, so any info sent my way would >be appreciated. After having problems with over-carbonation on a couple of batches, I asked the HBD in general for help, especially regarding reculturing. I received some really good (and detailed) advice on how to do this, notably from Pete Soper, Rick Zucker and David Baer. I've now used the procedure four times without one single problem. I'll pass along my methods and experiences. I always buy un-refridgerated SN Pale Ale. I don't know if it makes any difference but it's possible the yeast is more viable if it hasn't been cooled. At Pete Soper's advice (and I think he's 100% correct), I use much more careful techniques to assure sanitation. This process is beginning with a very small yeast population and they won't be able to "get the upper hand" on other nasty things that may be hanging around. I use stronger bleach solutions and soak all equipment longer. I wipe down all counter tops with this solution as well. Also, I'm careful not to breath near the open culturing bottles. I use brown bottles to minimize the effects of light on the growing yeast culture. This is a two step process: First, I boil two tablespoons of dried malt extract in about one cup of water for about 15 minutes, effectively making a light wort. I include one-half teaspoon yeast nutrient and three or four hops pellets. This I cool to pitching temp (77 degrees F). While cooling and once the temperature has fallen to under 120 degrees F, I aerate it by stirring. I do this because boiling the wort has removed most of the O2. Waiting until it's cooler than 120 helps prevent oxidation, I think. The cooled wort is then poured into a sterilized 12 oz long neck, straining out the hops. I carefully pour all but the bottom half-inch of two or three bottles of SN Pale Ale into glasses, being extremely careful to not disturb the yeast on the bottom. I then flame the lips of the SN bottles with a butane cigarette lighter (to kill off any mold, etc), vigorously stir up the dregs to get the yeast off the bottom, pour the contents into the wort then affix a fermentation lock. I usually just put the bottle at the back of the counter top somewhere out of the light. I've found that I get a much quicker start from three bottles. I see obvious activity within 12 hours and have a healthy kraussen in one day. I let this work until I see the kraussen begin to fall (usually about three days) and then proceed to the next step. I now make a larger wort, using a half cup of dried malt extract and about one and one-half cups water, adding one tsp yeast nutrient and six or seven hops pellets. Once the wort has boiled and cooled (again aerating the wort to introduce O2), I strain it into a sterilized 22 oz bottle. I flame the lip of the 12 oz bottle of yeast starter from step one, swirl it around to mix it up and then pour it into the new, larger wort and affix a fermentation lock. This starter will be ready in about two or three days. I always wait for the kraussen to fall before I use it and just pitch it as I would any other yeast starter after stirring it up to get the yeast off the bottom. I've had excellent results with this method. The 5 gallons of wort shows activity within a few hours and very active bubbling within 24 hours. One thing I've noted is that this yeast is never as active as dried yeasts, such as Edme or Red Star. The fastest I have seen the lock bubble is about once per second. It takes about two weeks for the fermentation to complete, sometimes a little longer. I have not had a case of over-carbonation since switching to this way of obtaining yeast. Keith Winter (winter at cirrusl) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 17:23:46 PST >From: marcs at SLC.COM (Marc San Soucie) Subject: Oregon Brewwater Here's a question for the Oregon homebrewers, the answer to which may be of interest to other parties as well. I would like to know if anyone has come to some clear conclusions about the quality of Portland-area tap water for brewing. In particular, I am in the Wolf Creek Highway water district, and my impression is that the water is not particularly hard, though I haven't fetched a water analysis from the district yet. Has anyone got some brewing-oriented information about W.C.H. water? And further, what do you Oregon brewers tend to do in the way of water preparation? In my previous geographical incarnation I was blessed with wonderfully rich hard water that needed no adjusting. Now, I am not so sure. Comments? Marc San Soucie The John Smallbrewers Portland, Oregon marcs at slc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu Nov 1 15:43:08 1990 >From: bose!synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET Subject: AHA Club Competitons In HBD #527, Cher complains that she can't enter any of the AHA club competitions, because she isn't a member of a club. This is an interesting point, and a complaint I hadn't heard before (I've heard most of 'em). Unfortunately, I don't have a solution, but perhaps I can justify the club competition concept. Probably the most obvious aspect of the competition, is the fact that keeping entries down to one per club allows for a simple and focused national level competition. Perhaps less obvious are the secondary goals of promoting local club membership and providing club members with some experience judging beers. I don't see any equitable way of allowing independent brewers access to the competition without making it unmanageably large and unfair to club brewers. Perhaps you could form your own club solely for the purpose of entering the competitions. If you were sufficiently motivated, perhaps you could establish a national club for independent brewers. I think the AHA definition of 'club' is sufficiently loose to allow for such an organization. - Chuck Cox (uunet!bose!synchro!chuck) - Hopped/Up Racing Team - Return to table of contents
Date: Thu Nov 1 17:38:30 1990 >From: bose!synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET Subject: re: AHA National Competition (a bit long)) I think that Dave Suurballe and I agree on the major problems of the AHA national competition, namely lack of organization and lack of highly experienced judges. We even agree that the competition could easily be better organized and run. However, I must take task with Dave's implication that somehow the AHA is to blame for the lack of experienced judges. Dave suggests that there should be no inexperienced judges at the National, even if that means only one judge per category. I am afraid that such a policy would bring howls of protest from competitors. Even an experienced judge has blind spots & lapses of judgement. Having multiple judges helps even out the individual irregularities. It is the responsibility of the the experienced judge(s) in a panel to coach the less experienced judges and to discuss the judging. Most of the judges I have worked with appreciated insights into the style and were quite willing to reconsider and adjust their scores in order to increase consistency. Some judges have suggested that I may exercise too much influence over less experienced judges, so you simply can't please everybody. The only alternative is to get more experienced judges, but the simple ugly truth is that there aren't very many and we don't grow on trees. The national competition draws more experienced judges than any other competition, but they still represent only about one in five of the judges present. There are only two ways that I can see to increase the number of experienced judges at the national: First, attract more of the existing experienced judges to the competition. Second, create more experienced judges. You might get more experienced judges at the national if you offered to pay for their travel & lodging expenses, but you are still asking them to take time off from work and family. This might double the number of experienced judges to two in five, but certainly won't eliminate all inexperienced judges as Dave would like. My quick math shows such an incentive might cost as much as $25 extra per entry. You might create more experienced judges by offering similar incentives to judge regional and local competitions, but ultimately you would want to send them to Europe every few years to get a real education. I am all for any of these ideas, but who would be willing to pay the bill? I spend well over $1000 per year and over two weeks of vacations and weekends just to judge various competitions including the national. At most I might get a T-shirt or ribbon as compensation. My beer trip to Europe this summer took two weeks and cost over $2500. How many judges can afford to do this? I am a well-paid self-employed computer consultant, but most judges have families and regular jobs. It's easy to complain about lack of experienced judges, but the only solutions I see cost money and time and I don't hear anybody volunteering to pay. The bottom line is that there are very few experienced beer judges, certainly not enough to judge a national competition by themselves. The number of experienced judges is increasing, but unless someone wants to start subsidizing their education, it will be a slow process. The average judge probably does a couple of competitions a year and my go to Europe once or twice in their lifetime. As long as judges are unpaid volunteers who judge and train at their own expense, competitors and organizers will simply have to accept the expertise that is offered. It's been said before, but I'll say it again: The only way you can improve the quality of beer judging is to become a quality judge yourself. - Chuck Cox (uunet!bose!synchro!chuck) - Hopped/Up Racing Team - Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #529, 11/02/90 ************************************* -------
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