---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Woooops (Rob Gardner)
  Conversion brew/Bass substitute ("Gary Mason - Image ABU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  30-Oct-1990 0754")
  Alexander's (Fred Condo, sysop)
  yeast culture, cider (Russ Gelinas)
  beer evangelism ... (Jeffrey R Blackman)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #527 (October 30, 1990) (Carol Hatcher)
  AHA Club-only Competitions (John Polstra)
  Homebrew Digest #527 (October 30, 1990) (Dave Brown)
  Beer Hunter Tapes (Martin A. Lodahl)
  ounces, Bass, killing yeast (R. Bradley)
  large fermenters (mage!lou)
  test (jeg)
  Homebrew competition (Craig L. Flowers)
  Plastic bottles (Don Reid)
  Bottles - and some warnings (William Mayne)
  free bottles (Ed Falk)
  yeast book (florianb)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #527 (October 30, 1990) (Kevin Karplus)
  Alex bashing (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  yeast recycling (kjohnson)
  Partial vs full wort boils ("Gary Mason - Image ABU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  30-Oct-1990 2155")
  Romulan Ale (Kevin L. McBride)
  summary of liquid yeast characteristics (Kim Mills)
  Superbrau yeast (Jon Rodin)
  Re: Plastic Bottles (John DeCarlo)
  Re:  Problems with Alexanders, Could be Sugar? (John DeCarlo)
  Re: yeast recycling (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #518 (October 31, 1990) (Jeffrey R Blackman)
  German brewpubs (Tad Blakeley)
  Vierka Mead Yeast or Unidentified Foreign Substance? (Dan Miles)
  Specific heat? (Bill Crick)
  Twelve Oz. Bottles (314)872-3168" <schmidt at 53454.mdcbbs.com>


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Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 90 10:45:22 mst
>From: Rob Gardner <rdg>
Subject: Woooops
Full-Name: Rob Gardner	


Sorry about the ghost of issue #518 yesterday. I guess I should have
expected that after restoring my disk from the backup tape!

Now back to our regularly scheduled program...

Rob

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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 04:56:31 PST
>From: "Gary Mason - Image ABU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  30-Oct-1990 0754" <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Conversion brew/Bass substitute

Since my virgin batch turned out so well, and since it was supposed to be a 
poor man's substitute for Bass, I'd recommend Carp Ale.  The recipe is from the 
Z... special issue (1986?) on extract brewing.  Recipe is by Russ Schehrer.  
I'd insert the recipe, but it isn't with me.  Ask if you want it. It was pretty 
simple and inexpensive as well.

Cheers...Gary

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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 01:32:10 PST
>From: fredc at pro-humanist.cts.com (Fred Condo, sysop)
Subject: Alexander's

In HBD 527, "Danny-Boy" (dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu) writes about an
unsatisfactory result from a recipe whose fermentable content was about 70%
Alexander's. In particular, the results were undercarbonation, high
fruitiness, and maybe cideriness.

My experience with Alexander's has been very good. Using it as a base malt,
I've made English Mild, Pale Ale, and Porter that have all been very well
received by connoisseurs and plain folk alike. The Porter in particular was
acclaimed as excellent by all at my local homebrew club recently.

I would guess that the fruity character is a result of the type of yeast used
(not mentioned) and possibly high fermentation temperature. Also, it's in the
nature of Pale Ale to have much more fruitiness than a lager. Also, I've
noticed that M&F Amber Malt Extract (which dbreiden used in addition to
Alexander's) imparts a lot of fruitiness. I can't explain the failure to
carbonate.

It would be a shame to abandon Alexander's, as it's of excellent quality and
quite inexpensive, especially in bulk. For your next Pale Ale try this:

one-half pound crushed crystal malt, steeped and twice sparged
5 to 6 lbs. Alexander's pale malt extract
10 oz dextrose (corn sugar) (optional)
1.25 oz. Cascade hops (pellets) for 60 mins.
0.25 oz. Cascade hops (pellets) at end of boil or as dry hop
Munton & Fison dry beer yeast.
Water to make 5 gallons (I do full-wort boil)

Prime with half a cup corn sugar.
OG: 1.058, FG: 1.022, 4.7% alcohol v/v.

Now, being a Pale Ale, a British Bitter, really, this shouldn't be highly
carbonated. It should have about 1 vol. of carbon dioxide, and certainly no
more than 1.5 volumes. Too much carbonation eliminates the taste and
bitterness of the hops.

My notes say that this is a well-balanced brew with good maltiness and
bitterness. It was good when fresh, albeit cloudy, but this is okay in a Pale
Ale. After 2 months of refrigeration, it is crystal clear and still
delicious. And there's only one bottle left... ;-<

By the way, M&F beer yeast is very aggressive. Fermentation can be completely
done in 24-72 hours. I've even had it finish overnight, but don't bottle too
early if you have any doubts. After bottling, let it carbonate a week or two,
then pop it into the fridge. Drink it at 50 deg. F. I hope you'll like it as
much as I do!

===
Fred Condo. Pro-Humanist BBS: 818/339-4704, 300/1200/2400 bps
Internet: fredc at pro-humanist.cts.com  Bitnet: condof at clargrad
UUCP: crash!pro-humanist!fredc [add ' at nosc.mil' for ARPA]
matter: PO Box 2843, Covina, CA 91722  America Online: FredJC



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Date:     Tue, 30 Oct 90 10:04 EST
>From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU> (Russ Gelinas)
Subject:  yeast culture, cider

I tried to culture some Sierra Nevada yeast (what a great beer!) using a
modified version of the method in TCJOHB, but it didn't catch.  Is the yeast
possibly too far gone to start up again? I have no idea how old the beer is
or how it has been handled.  I've got two more bottles of SN Pale Ale, and
I'd really like to get some yeast from them, so any info sent my way would
be appreciated.

Now my cider story: 3 gallons of apple cider, 1.5 lbs of brown sugar, and 1
package of Red Star champagne yeast. OG:1.066, FG: 0.994! We're talking dry.
Maybe too dry, so I thought I'd open the bottles and add some sugar (.5 tsp)
for a little sweetness and some sparkle. Wrong! Almost as soon as the sugar
went in, the cider bubbled over *alot*. So I guess it *will* be sparkling,
but still very dry.  Oh well, not too bad for a first try.

Russ (of NH)

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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 8:20:16 PST
>From: Jeffrey R Blackman <blackman at hpihouz.cup.hp.com>
Subject: beer evangelism ...
Full-Name: Jeffrey R Blackman

In HBD 527, Ivan writes,

< "I am trying both to impress and to "convert" someone who is 
< currently of the "Old Style / Schaefer (however it's spelled)" persuasion.
< I'm thus looking for a good ale for "conversion purposes".

Last July, I gathered some friends together to brew a simple yet tasty batch
of homebrew.  I chose "Righteous Real Ale" from TCJoHB because it was *SIMPLE*
and very *TASTY*.  In this group (totaling 6) I was the only one who had 
previously brewed; simplicity may have helped "convert" if you will.  Part of
the fun of doing this was the lobster barbeque we had at the same time!

Charlie Papazian writes about Rigteous Real Ale:

"The taste of Righteous Real Ale is excellent and authentic within
14 days of brewing.  It is brewed in a style of "ordinary bitter"
served in parts of London and inhop country to the south.  It is
a distinctly hopped ale with a beautiful hop bouquet.  Bear in mind
that authentic bitter may not be as carbonated as you are used to.
If more carbonation is desired, add 1/4 cup additional corn sugar
at bottling time."

		6 Cooks Ale
by Eilene, Gwen, Jeff, Karl, Mike & Paul

INGREDIENTS:
(for 10 gallons)
     10lbs English Pale malt extract (DME)
     4 oz Cascade hop pellets (boiling)
     2 oz Hallertauer hop pellets (finishing)
     4 tsp. gypsum
     2 pkg EDME Ale yeast (1 pkg. per 5 gallon)
     1 - 1 1/2 cup corn sugar (bottling)

Original Specific Gravity (O.G.): 1.030    (July 22, 1990)
Final Specific Gravity (S.G.): 1.007     (August 14, 1990)

Brought 3 gallons of water (purified, but not bottled drinking
water) to a boil.  Added four (4) teaspoons gypsum, four (4) oz
Cascade hop pellets and ten (10) lbs DME.  brought to rolling boil
(used medium high to high temperature on electric range).  Boiled
on medium high for about 45 minutes.  Added two (2) oz Hallertauer
hop pellets to boil for about one (1) minute.  Poured wort through
nylon straining bag into 55 gallon trash container with additional
7 gallons water.  Allowed wort to cool (about 1.5 hours) and
syphoned into 5 gallon carboys.  (Note: O.G. was taken on sample
which was allowed to cool)  Let cool overnight and add yeast.  (A
wort chiller would be a nice addition).

I tend to add probably more hops than most of the "Old Style / Schaefer 
persuasion" might prefer.  If you think its too much, cut back. TCJoHB
suggests something more on the order of 1.5 oz bittering and .5 oz 
aromatics.  Without a scale, its easier to dump in the whole 2oz package!

Hope your Evangelism is sucsessful!

 -Jeff Blackman

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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 08:36:49 PST
>From: xilinx!canopus!carolh at uunet.UU.NET (Carol Hatcher)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #527 (October 30, 1990)

Hello,
	This is my first posting to the HBD, but I've been reading for a few
months now.  I am beginning brewer with about 20+ batches under my belt
and a RDWHAHB attitude towards brewing.  I shoot for a good, healthy
product for my friends and me without a lot of fuss.  I also do a fair
bit of canning and actually find the "scruptulously clean" requirement
in homebrewing actually quite relaxed  compared to what one MUST do in 
canning to avoid ruining the product and POISONING yourself. 

	Anyway, to the people wondering about the types of bottles one can use
for homebrew.  I find that most brown beverage bottles without the twist
off tops to work just fine,  they don't have to be as thick as the returnables
as you aren't going to be putting them through the automatic cleaning machines
and man-handling them the way the bottlers do.  I do avoid the green Heinechen
bottles as they are the only ones that have busted on me when I do get
an exploding bottle of beer.  Other good bottles are champange or Sparkling
Cider bottles.  I don't like using the soda pop bottles as I can't get a
good seal with a crown cap over those threads and I will not reuse the
original caps because the sealent compound on the cap is a one-time only
affair just like a canning lid. (my canning background comes into play
a lot when brewing)  I also like the Grolsch bottles (and similiar brands
that do the same type of bottling) especially for the novelty.  I also
bought, for the bottles, two gallon jugs with the cap and gasket arrangement
at CostCo last year.  They had some bad beer in them, but the jugs are 
just great. 

	As far as getting a hold of empties, I just told my friends and relatives
to save bottles for me.  Before my first batch was ready, I had more bottles
than I could use for that batch.  All were looking forward to a taste of
what ol' shorty could brew up, I guess.


	All in all, just RDWHAHB and bottle in whatever'll work for you.

Cheers,
Shorty

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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 08:58:03 PST
>From: polstra!jdp at uunet.UU.NET (John Polstra)
Subject: AHA Club-only Competitions

In HBD #527, "FEINSTEIN" <crf at pine.circa.ufl.edu> writes:

> I was initially planning to enter the "Weiss is Nice" competition when
> I discovered that membership in the local homebrewing club was a
> prerequisite for competition.  This I resented.

Cher, from the above and from what you wrote after it, I got the
impression that you were misinformed about the AHA club-only
competitions such as Weiss is Nice.  They are open to *clubs* only,
*not* to *club members* only.  In other words, joining a club still
would not have automatically made you eligible to enter the AHA's
contest.

In the club-only competitions, each *club* sends in a single entry to
the AHA.  The entry represents the club as a whole.  At the club level,
the members can select their representative entry any way they want to.
The most common way is to hold an in-club tasting and choose the best
entry from among the individual club members.

There are four club-only competitions each year:

    Weiss is Nice (wheat beer)
    Hail to Ale (India pale ale)
    Bock is Best (Bock)
    Best of the Fest (Oktoberfest)

In addition, there are many, many other small competitions that are open
to any and all individuals.  Check the listings in Zymurgy.  You could
enter a different contest every month if you felt like it.

> But surely, it shouldn't be necesssary to force people into joining a
> club they don't want to join.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything!  They're just not offering you the
option you would prefer.  If you don't like it, maybe you should stage
the "CRF Invitational Competition," open to non-club-members only.  ;-)

I hope this clears things up a little bit.

   John Polstra               polstra!jdp at uunet.uu.net
   Polstra & Co., Inc.           ...!uunet!polstra!jdp
   Seattle, Washington USA              (206) 932-6482
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."  -- John Barth

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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 09:37:25 PST
>From: brown at ocelot.llnl.gov (Dave Brown)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #527 (October 30, 1990)
0
 > So now, I'm not at all sure what to think!  Did I pick up an infection when
 > racking off the trub?  Is it the EDME?  Should I pour this batch down the
 > drain? (ouch!)  See if it ever stops fermenting?

I brewed a batch of Brown Ale, called 'Wild Hesitation', which pretty
much describes how the thing fermented.  I used contaminated EDME, and
it tased, well not real good, but drinkable.  I set it aside for a
couple of months, and now its tasting pretty good.  In fact I enjoy
it, though it's still a bit peculiar. 

My advise: RDWHAHB, set it aside for several months and come back to
it.  You were trying to get a peculiar beer, and by damn, you got it!
Anyway this brewing thing started from refining wierd yeasts for
hundreds of years to the ones we have today, so you can tell your
friends this is what ale tasted like half a millenia ago.  An
interesting time machine.

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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 9:46:57 PST
>From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Beer Hunter Tapes

In HOMEBREW Digest #527, Cher Feinstein said:

> BEER HUNTER TAPES:  Mine finally arrived last week, taking about 2 weeks
> longer than advertised.

Mine arrived last week too, taking about 2 weeks LESS than
advertised.  I suspect I ordered mine somewhat later, and that the
shipping schedule was directly tied to the production schedule.

> What I find far more interesting, is that the program sequence is 
> different on the tapes.  And I suspect that the sequence on the 
> tapes is the sequence originally intended for broadcast, and that 
> the Discovery Channel juggled the programs.

I was puzzled by the sequence on the tapes (I don't have cable, and
didn't see the show when "aired").  The episode that explains the
whole premise of the series was the last one (Belgium), which i
would have aired first.  In fact, perhaps the order that would have
left the fewest "loose ends" is the exact reverse of the order on
the tapes.  Just an opinion ...

= Martin A. Lodahl    Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 12:06:41 CST
>From: bradley at dehn.math.nwu.edu (R. Bradley)
Subject: ounces, Bass, killing yeast

In #527, Mike Charlton says:

>  Actually, I think the ounces are the same.

Sorry Mike.  And as a fellow Canadian, I'm ashamed of you.  Pick up  a 
Canadian 12 oz. brewski.  341 ml, right?  Now get an import, one intended
for the US market.  355 ml, right?  Fact: 1 US ounce = 25/24 Imp ounces.
Thus, even though the ratio of ounces in an Imperial gallon to those in a
US gallon is 5:4 (owing, as you correctly noted, to a 20 oz. Imp. pint and
a 16 oz. US pint), the ratio of capacities is a mere 6:5.  This last figure,
btw, is available in your Dave Line books.

In light of all this, we should ask Cher Feinstein in which units
a pound of honey comes out to 10.56 ounces?  If US, then you Canadians
make sure you measure out 11.00 ounces.  And get the second decimal
place right!!  (P.S. Cher: _Reader's Digest_?  I mean REALLY!)

	                        *****

In a recent HBD (#526?) someone asked for a Bass recipe.  Rick Goldberg
obliged with an extract recipe.  I'll enter the fray with a grain recipe.

6 or 7 # pale malt (preferably 2-row, 6 if UK, 7 if US)
     1 # crystal malt
     1 # demarara or dark brown sugar
    1 oz northern brewer hops (1 hour)
    1 oz fuggle hops (30 min)
  1/2 oz fuggle hops (finish; try adding 1/4 oz for 10 min of boiling,
			      then add the rest, turn off the heat,
			      steep for 15 min)

Notes: (a) I'm a hophead *:-)  (b) "Sugar in my all-grain beer?" you
scream in outrage.  A careful tasting of Bass reveals brwon sugar/
molasses character in the finish.  Not as strong as Newkie Brown,
of course, but present.  British malt, in particular, can easily
stand up to a bit of sugar, both in flavour and in gravity.

(P.S.  In searching for Rick's posting with my text editor, I
wasn't certain whether to capitalise Bass, so I used the last
three letters only.  I found: galss, molassses, assessing,
assumption x 2, then finally Bass.)

			*******

Re gushing bottles:  (BTW, I've used Edme once only, and had results
comparable to those I've heard described on the net.)  Bottles which
are slowly becoming over-carbonated can be shoved, space permitting,
into the fridge until it's time to drink up.  They won't carbonate
any further at those temperatures.  However, refrigerator temperature
is too cold for most ales, stouts and porters.

NOW THE QUESTION:  will this eventually kill the yeast, or will
it simply remain dormant and go back to overcarbonating once the
beer is brought to room temperature?  I'll give an empirical answer
to this question (based on a sample of size 1 or 2) in a few weeks
if there's nobody out there who knows a priori.


Happy sparging,

Rob  (bradley at math.nwu.edu)

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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 11:10:20 MST
>From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: large fermenters

In HBD #527 Paul Kelly writes:
>I believe that if I were to brew
>say, 20 gallons at a time, that I'd be saving time as well as insuring that
>the last drop of beer is further away than next weekend.  My question is this:
>what's good to use for a big fermenter?  Are there food-grade buckets with
>airtight lids that hold 20 gallons or so?  Would a stainless steel 15 gal keg
>work okay for fermentation?  Do they even make stainless kegs anymore?

I've seen large (e.g. 15-20 gallon) plastic fermenters and carboys at 

	North Denver Cellar
	4370 Tennyson St.
	Denver, CO  80212
	(303) 433-5998
	(open Wed-Sat, 10-5 Mountain Time)

I would suggest checking at a local wine shop first as you might be able to
save on shipping.

Also, keep in mind that 20 gallons of wort weighs ~160 pounds.  That detail has
always kept me from considering such large batches.

Louis Clark
reply to mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 13:11:36 -0500
>From: desktalk!jeg at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: test

testing   1    2    3   

- --john


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 12:10:05 CST
>From: flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu (Craig L. Flowers)
Subject: Homebrew competition
Full-Name: 

Well, I've tried to stay out of this thread, but I just can't do it.  What I  
have to say is likely to sound ridiculus to many people.  All I ask is that you
consider my arguments before replying.

Dave Suurballe is upset about it, Chuck Cox things it is working and nearly
everyone agrees it needs to change.  I say, who needs competitions?  If you
win a ribbon, does that make you a better brewer?  It most certainly does not.
If you win a ribbon, does that make you better than other homebrewers?
Absolutely not!  I am against homebrew competitions that say one beer is better
than others.  I feel it distracts from the very reasons I became a homebrewer
and the reasons I joined the AHA.  This isn't a hobby to win at, it is a 
movement towards better tasting beers than what the mass producers brew.

I object to the fact that the AHA solicites winners to write articles.  I also
do not like the way they use the competition accomplishments of a writer to
lend credibility to what they write. 

I recently offered someone a homebrew and the first thing they asked is, "What
kind of awards have you won?"  Is this the perception you as a homebrewer want
of the uninformed public?   I was appalled.  I said I had been brewwing for
nearly five years and am not in it for the glory.  I'm in it for the good beer.
But good beer to this person is winning competitions.  Isn't that what makes
Sam Adams a good beer?  Winning competitions creates good pr for the winner.
Just remember, good pr does not produce a good beer, it just sells it.

I remember one of my first issues of Zymurgy.  There was an article about a
guy in Maine I think.  He lived in a book store and brewed beer on a hotplate.
Imagine that, a hotplate!  Well who cares about a guy who brews on a hotplate!
The article went on to say that he brewed a good beer and had been doing that
for quite some time.  Hell, the article wasn't about the beer, it was about the
person, the homebrewer, who he is, what he likes and why he does what he does.
That's the kind of brewer I want to be.  Good, interesting and knowledgable.
And if Zymurgy or the AHA were ever interested in me, that's WHY I would want
them interested in me.

No, leave me out of competitions.  I don't need a ribbon to think I'm good.
The demand for my beer tells me I'm good.  But mostly, I don't want someone to
think I'm not good because I don't have a ribbon.  I don't want to have to have
a ribbon to write an article for Zymurgy.  My experience should speak for 
itself.

My apologies to anyone I offended.  I know that compitition is a fact of life 
and can create better homebrewers over time.  I also know that people enjoy
the competition.  Maybe, though, that phrase of Charlies, "Relax. Don't Worry.
Have a homebrew." should  also be the motto for competitions.  It's not the
end of the world, tomorrow there will be another batch.

 -Craig Flowers
(I can get a bit excited sometimes.)
HBD subscriber since #444
(flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu)


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 10:26:07 pst
>From: Don Reid <donr at hpcvcab.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Plastic bottles
Full-Name: Don Reid

> Has anyone else used plastic bottles?

  I have used 2 liter soda (PET) a couple of times.  They worked well.
  In addition to saving time while bottling, I can drink the contents in
  what ever quantity I wishover a few days.

  Since plastic is said to harbor bad critteres is scratches, I expect
  to dispose of them after several uses and use new ones.  Fortunately
  my family drinks enough soda, and I can recycle the PET bottles (once
  the labels are removed the stores will not refund the deposit).


				  Don Reid
				  Hewlett Packard  Corvallis 
				  donr at cv.hp.com
				  (503) 750-2726
				  1020 NE Circle blvd. Corvallis, OR 97330

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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 14:02:44 -0500
>From: William Mayne <mayne at creat.cs.fsu.edu>
Subject: Bottles - and some warnings

dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Danny Breidenbach) writes:

>In response to a query about gathering bottles suitable for a homebrewer,
>William Mayne suggests collecting bottles from recyling bins.  How does one
>be sure that these are returnables?  My assumption would be that the vast 
>majority of the bottles sent to be recycled are of the non-returnable variety
>and have those nasty twist-tops....not so hot for capping.  But then, Are
>returnable bottles *really* necessary??  I have always worked under the 
>assumption that the NR's aren't satisfactory for bottling homebrew...

Just look at the mouth to see if a bottle takes a twist off cap.  I
have never tried using any which do. Some writers claim that these are
too thin to stand the pressure of capping. More on this danger below.
(See also warning at end about getting permission to raid recycling
bins.)

Most of the bottles I use are non-returnable bottles which originally
held imported beers and take regular caps. These seem to be as good as
domestic returnables. Obviously it just wouldn't be worth shipping them
back to Germany or where ever. I've never had a problem with them
breaking.  The main disadvantage is that the size and shape varies, so
they don't fit neatly in a case or on a shelf like a more uniform
bottle collection.  On the other hand it is kind of interesting to see
the labels, even when not drinking the original contents. (I don't
bother to soak them off.)

CAUTION: With any bottle, even returnables, there is some risk that a
bottle may break under the pressure of capping. This happened to a guy
in my local brewing club. Unfortunately he was using a one lever bench
capper and had his left had around the bottle at the time. As a result
he not only made a mess and wasted some beer, he got a nasty cut.
Someone else in the club who works with lab glassware said that you
can't always tell by looking if a bottle is weak and may present a
hazard. Use a glove when handling any bottle this way.

Here is another suggestion about using imported beer bottles. Some
foreign brewers (like Samuel Smith) use mostly clear bottles. The down
side of using these is that they don't provide the light protection that
brown bottles do. However there is an advantage if you store beer in a
dark place during conditioning. If you include one or two clear bottles
in each batch you can inspect them to see how well the beer is clearing
as conditioning and settling proceed. I try to make it a point to do
this, especially when trying a new recipe.

>About 2-liter pop bottles...maybe I'm a damned purist or maybe I'm closed minded
>but the idea of storing my precious homebrew in one of those *plastic* bottles
>brings me close to a shudder.  Question: is there a noticible effect on taste?

I have not found any effect on the taste, and I have bottled in both
plastic and glass from the same batch partly to compare the results.
Plastic pop bottles are made of good food grade plastic. They do need
to be kept in the dark to avoid light damage to the beer, though.
Otherwise that could affect the taste.

>Even bigger question: how do you seal it tight enough to get carbonation?  Can
>the original cap be screwed on that tight??

Yes. No problem there. I've used the ones with plastic caps. After all, 
these bottles are designed to hold the pressure of carbonated soft 
drinks.

One more warning: Someone pointed out that in many places taking bottles
from recycling bins without asking may be illegal. On the other hand if
you ask most owners of bins will give permission and this is okay. The
ecological benefits of reusing bottles are even better than recycling.
Since I was one of those who made the original suggestion in HBD and it
is repeated in the quote above I just wanted to emphasize this again.

- --- Bill Mayne   |    mayne at nu.cs.fsu.edu


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 11:27:56 PST
>From: falk at Eng.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Subject: free bottles

Anybody in the Bay area want some empty, clean, de-labeled bottles?
I've been stockpiling them for too long, and realize that I have
far more than I need.  I'm going to get rid of about three cases
worth, and I figure some homebrewer might want them rather than
see them go into a recycle bin.

	contact me, Ed Falk, at falk at sun.com

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Date: 30 Oct 90 12:37:13 PST (Tue)
>From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: yeast book


Kim Mills asks where to get Leistad's book on yeast culturing:

It can be ordered from Steinbart's:

F. H. Steinbart Co.
602 SE Salmon
Portland, OR  97214
503-232-8793



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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 12:46:19 PST
>From: Kevin Karplus <karplus at ararat.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #527 (October 30, 1990)

Rick Goldberg, 
Sorry to disappoint you, but rosehips do not have a flowery taste.
The flowery taste in most rosehip herbal teas comes from hibiscus flowers,
which are also responsible for the red coloring of the teas.

You could try using rose petals or rose water, but be sure you get food-grade
ones, most roses are so loaded with pesticides that you could be poisoned
if you used them for food.

If you want a flowery taste, I'd recommend something more compatible with the
taste of beer---perhaps chamomile?  A floral taste to mead is fine---look
at some of Kenelm Digbie's mead recipes and see what flowers were used.
The only one I remember right now is clove gillyflowers, but I'm sure there
were others.

Kevin Karplus

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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 16:47:52 mst
>From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Alex bashing

(Danny-Boy) writes:
>My fellow brew-meister and I made a pale ale using 4 lbs of Alexanders Pale
>Malt Extract, 1.1 lbs Munton-Fison Amber Malt Exract, 1 lb corn sugar,etc.

And then later in the posting:
>I've heard of homebrews being described as cidery--but when I smelled a glass

Woah! Before you start bashing your malt, look at your ingredients.
It's more likely that your 1 lb of corn sugar is giving you cidery
flavors than your extracts.  Try the recipe without the corn sugar
or substitute another 1.2 lbs of light dried extract for the sugar.
(Dried malt extract has about 20% less fermentables than corn sugar.)

Your yeast may also be at fault for the aroma.  At higher fermentation
temps (say, above 55F) your yeast makes lots of esters.  The warmer
the ferment, the more esters you produce.  You may be using a yeast
that produces apple esters at the temperature at which you were
fermenting.  If you don't like apple esters, then switch yeasts or
lower your fermentation temperature.  In any case, why don't you
post your yeast/fermentation temperature data for those HB Digesters
who may be looking for an apple ester for their ale.

Al.


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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 16:11:08 -0800
>From: kjohnson at zirconium.berkeley.edu
Subject: yeast recycling

Ken Weiss asks,
Anyone got any thoughts on why 2 1/2 cups of yeast slurry produced no activity 
at all? Should I have expected a long lag using this method? I figured 
fermentation would begin almost immediately with that large a volume of yeast.

Try harvesting the yeast off the PRIMARY fermenter, putting it in a sterile
bottle and then into the fridge.  This is the way I treated my yeast that
I cultured from a Sierra Nevada bottle, and it won't stop fermenting, even
at 35 degrees.  Every few days I have to reclean the airlock, because those
little yeasties keep on going.  Today I pulled the bottle out of the fridge
to let it warm up for a pitching into a new batch of beer, and it kicked
into a powerdrive with the higher temperature.  Papazian says that one needs
4 to 8 oz. of yeast slurry to start a 5 gallon batch.  If the yeast has gone
dormant, try a starter (I saw no activity for 36 hours when I cultured the
yeast from the SN bottles).

Hope this helps
Ken

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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 19:00:28 PST
>From: "Gary Mason - Image ABU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  30-Oct-1990 2155" <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Partial vs full wort boils

I am partial (sorry...) to full wort boils.  I know that there is an increase
in hop extraction, and that the entire batch is sterilized, but are there any
other effects? I see so many recipes that advocate partial (1-3 gallon) boils
that I am inclined to ask. Obviously the time taken is longer as well.

Cheers...Gary

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Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 23:29:32 -0500
>From: gozer!klm at uunet.UU.NET (Kevin L. McBride)
Subject: Romulan Ale

In Homebrew Digest #527, Paul L. Kelly <pkel at psych.purdue.edu> writes:

>Recently someone posted a question about using flowers in brewing.
>...
>Another thought that occurred to me was that one might use flowers
>in beer for unique coloring, e.g. green beer for St. Paddy's Day, or some-
>thing that I've always wanted to make, Romulan Ale...

Yes!  I would love to make Romulan Ale!  Some friends who are fans of my
beer are also BIG Star Trek fans.  I think that this would be a HUGE hit
in the right cirlces.

I seem to recall that Romulan Ale is blue.  Is that right?  What interesting
flavors might a Romulan Ale have?  Would it be real strong?

I wonder if the blue coloring would come out in the wort if one were to
mash a certain amount of blue corn?  Where would one obtain blue corn
suitable for crushing and mashing?  Perhaps blueberries would work too,
but I don't expect that those overly manly Romulans would drink Ale that
tasted like fruit.  It's just not Arnold-like. :-)

I think I see a net.recipe in the works.  A homebrew to take to the next
Star Trek convention.

- --
Kevin L. McBride, President    //  Amiga:        | Brewmeister, VP of Tasting,
McBride Software              //  The computer   | and Bottle Washer,
Consulting Group, Inc.    \\ //  for the         | McBeer Home Brewery
uunet!wang!gozer!klm       \x/  creative mind    | Nashua, NH

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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 90 09:18:37 -0500
>From: kim at nova.npac.syr.edu (Kim Mills)
Subject: summary of liquid yeast characteristics

I recently asked for recommendations on sources of information and experiences
with liquid yeast cultures.  I appreciate the many useful comments.

After brewing my first batch (with MeV American Ale yeast) I can see there
is great potential for brewing better beer with pure cultures.  Now I would
like to learn more about yeast strain selection.  For example, I found
MeV American Ale to produce a very clean taste with none of the "homebrew"
flavor I have been enjoying for years from dry yeast.  For my taste, it
is too neutral.

Unless this has already been done, I would like to receive comments on
yeast strain characteristics--handling, flavor, best used in a particular 
style, etc.  I will assemble a summary report to post to the net.

Kim Mills

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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 90 8:12:26 MST
>From: Jon Rodin <jar at hpcndpc.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: Superbrau yeast

My local homebrew shop only carries four brands of yeast.  M&F, Edme, Red Star
and Superbrau.  Lately, M&F and Edme have both been reported to have been
infected with variant strains (I've personally had problems with Edme) 
and Red Star is generally bad mouthed.  So I was thinking of trying the 
Superbrau yeast.  Anyone have any experience with it?  I've never seen 
Superbrau yeast mentioned in HPD.

- --------------------------+---------------------------------------------------
Jon Rodin                 | There are two kinds of fool.
j_rodin at cnd.hp.com        | One says, 'This is old, and therefore good'.
(303) 229 2474            | And one says, 'This is new, and therefore better'.
                          | -- John Brunner
- --------------------------+--------------------------------------------------- 

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Date: Wednesday, 31 Oct 1990 11:23:17 EST
>From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Plastic Bottles

>From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU> (Russ Gelinas)
>
>W.Mayne suggested bottling in 2-liter plastic bottles.  I like
>the sound of this; I've had Watney's in 2-liter bottles and it
>was fine (and inexpensive, when compared to the same amount in
>bottles.  Just shows the expense of packaging).  Has anyone else
>used plastic bottles?

Yes, I use them regularly.  I usually bottle one case of regular
or Grolsch-style bottles, then the rest into 1- or 2-liter
bottles.  I find that bringing 1- or 2-liter bottles to a
friend's house is much more convenient than lugging lots of
bottles and then bringing them back home.  Since I drink lots of
seltzer water, I always have plenty of those plastic bottles
around.

>From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Danny-Boy)
>
>About 2-liter pop bottles...maybe I'm a damned purist or maybe
>I'm closed minded but the idea of storing my precious homebrew
>in one of those *plastic* bottles brings me close to a shudder.
>Question:  is there a noticible effect on taste?  Even bigger
>question:  how do you seal it tight enough to get carbonation?
>Can the original cap be screwed on that tight??

Let me put it to you this way.  You can store carbonated
beverages in the soda bottles, and even drink a little and reseal
them, keeping in the carbonation.  In other words, there is
little problem sealing them tight enough to get carbonation.  On
the other hand, I haven't reused the caps more than twice, as I
have heard that they do wear out, losing the seal.

So far, I haven't noticed any affect on the taste from a plastic
soda bottle or a glass beer bottle.  But then, your taste buds
may differ.  Just try an experiment with a 1-liter bottle
sometime.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Wednesday, 31 Oct 1990 11:24:03 EST
>From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re:  Problems with Alexanders, Could be Sugar?

>From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Danny-Boy)
>
>I think I remember seeing someone tell of their adventure with
>some malt extract that made a tea-like beer.  What was the name
>of this brand.  I think I remember it was Alexanders.

[further explanation deleted.]

I noticed that both posters who complained of this used at least
1 pound of sugar in their recipes.  I have used Alexanders once
with no noticeable effect, but then I wasn't putting any sugar
(except maltose) in the beer.  It may be that eliminating the
sugar from your recipe may eliminate the problem you are having
with Alexanders.  I personally suggest you will see a taste
improvement no matter which malt extract you use.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Wednesday, 31 Oct 1990 11:24:39 EST
>From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: yeast recycling

>From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu
>
>Well, I brewed last Saturday, and tried to recycle my yeast with
>the following method.  While the batch was sitting in an ice
>bath cooling, I went down to the basement (aka Ken's World) and
>bottled a batch that had been in the secondary for about four
>weeks.  I put the cooled wort from my new batch into the primary
>fermentor, dumped in the yeast slurry from the batch I'd just
>bottled (about 2 1/2 cups worth), and added water to bring total
>volume up to about 5 gallons.  The wort was well aerated in the
>process of topping it up.

[information deleted about no activity from this slurry]

The one time I tried it, I saved the slurry from the *primary*
fermenter in the refrigerator for a few days and it worked
nicely.  My guess is that most of the yeast in the bottom of the
*secondary* after 4 weeks is dead.  I *do* know that the places I
have seen written recommendations for reusing yeast

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Usenet:    at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 90 8:39:14 PST
>From: Jeffrey R Blackman <blackman at hpihouz.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #518 (October 31, 1990)
Full-Name: Jeffrey R Blackman

It is somewhat interesting how All Hallow E'en (which is what Halloween
is short for) can cause such spooks as to alter the HBD number (it should be 
528).  Just yesterday I received HBD 527 and on October 16 I received HBD 518.

Have a happy All Saints Day and get those Holiday brews going!

 -Jeff Blackman

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Date:     Wed, 31 Oct 90 9:15:42 PST
>From: Tad Blakeley <mblakele at jarthur.Claremont.edu>
Subject:  German brewpubs

	fredc at pro-humanist.cts.com (Fred Condo) posted some info about
German and other European breweries.  One thing to look out for in Germany
are the Hausbrauerei, or brewpubs.  They can be hard to find, but German
microbrew is IMHO sublime.
	I can recommend one specific place in Wuerzburg, which is also the
capital of the Franken wine district.  It was called Die goldene Gans,
the golden goose, and is located across the river from the center of
Wuerzburg.  You cross the old bishop's bridge from the market place,
then turn left and it's there.  They serve a pilsner with incredible
finish, but the cloudiness puts some people off (apparently their main
idea is "keep it simple," so they don't clarify the brew).  The food
is also excellent, especially the bread, which tastes like they use
their wort in it.
	You can find brewpubs in many German towns; just keep your eyes
open.  "Wir nehmen unsere Bier ernst - deshalb brauen wir selbst!"
						- tad
W	the sciences in colonial Santo Domingo." - The Begonia Trials  	     T
I   		mblakele at jarthur.claremont.edu, but call me Tad		     R
B			West is Best, See You in Hell			     ~

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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 90 14:40:37 -0800
>From: miles at cs.washington.edu (Dan Miles)
Subject: Vierka Mead Yeast or Unidentified Foreign Substance?

Cher writes:
> NEW YEAST BRAND:  I recently got the catalog for Cottage Brewing Supply, in
> Daytona Bch.  This is the supply store that Dr. Andrews recommended to me as
> a source of adjunct bags.  In perusing the catalog, I came across listings
> for Vierka wine yeast.  These are described as being German dry wine yeasts. 
> As the list included both a mead yeast and several yeasts suitable for use in
> making fruit wines, I'm curious about the stuff.  Does anyone know anything
> about this particular brand of yeast?

In June, I was preparing to brew my first batch of mead.  I was going
to use the standard Red Star Champagne yeast, but a local shop had one
packet of Vierka Mead yeast, so I decided to try it.  I rehydrated the
yeast as per the instructions and pitched it into a two gallon batch
of mead.  After four days of inactivity and increasing difficulties at
"not worrying", I repitched with Red Star and had fermentation in a
few hours.

So, what happened?  The yeast could have been old, especially since it
was the last packet in the store.  The yeast also looked very unusual.
It was irregularly shaped and about the size of cumin seeds, with
flakes of what looked like dried leafs.  In some of my lapses into the
worry state, I wondered if it was really yeast at all.  Maybe I had
pitched some unknown foreign material into my mead.

Whatever it was, it didn't ferment or ruin the batch.  The mead turned
out fine, no weird tastes other than the "you haven't waited long
enough" medicinal taste.   Has anyone had better luck with Vierka Mead
Yeast?
					Dan



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Date: 	Wed, 31 Oct 1990 18:14:39 -0500
>From: hplabs!ames!gatech!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick)
Subject: Specific heat?

Does anyone know the specific heat of malted barley?

SI units are prefered, but I'll take BTU/F lb. as long as they are
British BTUs, Fs, and lb's ;-) When is a gallon not a gallon? When the
! at #$%# at ^ at !& ounces are different.

Dont' rush Cherries in the Snow! Its worth the wait. Relax and have some
other homebrew!

Bill Crick



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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 90 21:59:23 PDT
>From: "Mike Schmidt (314)872-3168" <schmidt at 53454.mdcbbs.com>
Subject: Twelve Oz. Bottles

I realize the "source of bottles topics" has been thoroughly discussed but some
may find this approach desirable.  I needed two cases of 12 oz. returnable type
bottles for the top shelf of my beer frig.  The top shelf only has 8 inches of
clearance so this ruled out long-neck returnables.  I almost bought two cases
of Anchor Steam (yes, it is available in St. Louis) for drinking pleasure and
refills but I couldn't justify spending almost $50.

While roaming the soda isle at the grocery store, I discovered I.B.C. Root Beer.
A perfect bottle!  Almost 8" tall, dark brown glass, and a sturdy recapable
mouth.  I.B.C. is bottled in St. Louis yet it is distributed throughout the
Midwest and Northeast.

If you prefer 'clean', cheap, short, 12 oz. bottles then check them out.  Plus,
the kids will love you knowing that you are dying to empty cases of root beer
in record time.

Mike


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #528, 11/01/90
*************************************
-------

---