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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Bottle Sizes (Scott Birdwell)
  Re: Brew Pub (Michael Stumpf)


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Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 14:17:12 -0600
From: Scott Birdwell <defalcos at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Bottle Sizes

Our Fearless Leader, Pat Babcock noted:
"The carbon dioxide in beer is an overlooked source of bitterness,  
though
the larger bottles being more carbonated than the smaller would be
counter-intuitive. I vaguely recall discussions regarding more highly
carbonated beers interfering with the perception of hop bitterness.  
Maybe
this is at play here?"

I heard a few years ago that AB had reduced Budweiser's IBU level to  
around 10 and to compensate had upped the CO2 level.  Apparently,  
they gave up on this after a while, and went back to the current 12  
IBU level.  This might be hogwash, but I seem to recall it coming  
from a reliable source. You have to ask yourself whether this was  
done as an economizing measure or whether they just thought that this  
is what their customers wanted.  Anyway, CO2 levels definitely can  
influence your perception of hop levels.  Just think about how  
different a whisky and water tastes than a whisky and soda.  At most  
bars, the "soda" is just the water with CO2 injected.  It may not be  
hop bite, but the soda version definitely has a tang to it.

Scott Birdwell
DeFalco's Home Wine & Beer Supplies
Houston TX



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Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 22:25:28 -0600
From: Michael Stumpf <mjstumpf at pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Brew Pub

Regarding whether or not it makes sense to start your own beer production:

I considered doing this in a different context, attacking a market I see 
as emerging.  As yet I've not done it, but I did collect a lot of 
recon.  Chatting up a seasoned brewmaster in NYC, he shared some thoughts. 

He told me not to bother trying to fabricate new stuff; there's plenty 
out there.  Just get good at copying.  (Honestly, I tend to agree with 
this); if you're brewing for fun, brew for fun, but most people don't 
appreciate the stuff you do.  Make sure there's a miller-lite clone on tap.

He said the perceived "cost savings" evaporate when you factor in that 
you have to have someone doing the brewing, and they tend to be prima 
donnas.  The minute they start getting good and having options, they 
shake you down for more money and threaten to leave.. at the very least 
you risk a disruption of service because that guy was the one who had 
your beer production fine-tuned.  On the positive side, as a corollary 
to the above, most customers won't notice.

He said if it were him, he'd open a beer bar but buy a wide variety of 
products on the market.  If customers don't like something, punt it.  It 
is a simpler business model and it's far more flexible.


Now, my opinions:  I see where he's coming from, and maybe usurious 
taxes from New York are contributing to his dour world view.  But it 
sounds like you're looking at providing beer to a venue where typical 
customers drink swill.  As long as you brew the right products, you can 
use this as a massive cost savings; I think he's overestimating some 
things but one should definitely consider the sunk cost of equipment, 
the effect on your bottom line of bad batches, etc.

Another example to consider is in Las Vegas.  1 or two blocks off strip, 
near the Hooters casino, is an older casino most young people would 
never step foot in.  If memory serves, it's Ellis Island Brewery and 
Casino.  Google it.  People call it a dive, a casino with the theme of 
motel 8, etc.  True!  But What struck me, and why I ended up there 
daily, is they offered $2.00 16-oz homemade beer (infact it's all they 
sold--their own).  It was a little on the bland side, but I still valued 
it.  And, that guy was no doubt leveraging that cost savings into making 
the place more profitable.

Hope that helps.  I'd be curious to hear what you learn, as you learn it.



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