---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


***************************************************************
       THIS YEAR'S HOME BREW DIGEST BROUGHT TO YOU BY: 

                     Your Business Name Here
    Visit http://hbd.org "Sponsor the HBD"  to find out how!
			 
    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a 
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250 
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any 
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a bsuiness expense. Please consult with your 
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available 
sponsorship opportunities.
***************************************************************


Contents:
  Re: New to Homebrewing ("Daniel Chappell")
  Chloramine and Campden Tablets ("A.J deLange")
  Hops for Donation/Trade (Pete Limosani)
  Re: Oxidation of Frozen Liquid? (Glyn and Mary)
  Re: A Trick for the Conical ("Dave Larsen")
  keg cleaning (drsmith)
  Re: Software and Equipment (Joe Brandt)
  bottle or keg (Nick Trubov)
  re: New to Homebrewing & Souring a Witbier ("jeff_ri")


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*           The HBD Logo Store is now open!             *
*            http://www.hbd.org/store.html              *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*  Suppport this service: http://hbd.org/donate.shtml   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*   Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org

If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!!

To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word
  "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL
  ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!**
IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to
  the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address
  for the automation - that's your job.

HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at
http://hbd.org.

LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go
instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there.

The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright 
  HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK 
  before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content 
  cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit.

More information is available by sending the word "info" to 
req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org.

JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning,
                  and Spencer Thomas



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 06:50:53 -0400
From: "Daniel Chappell" <daniel.chappell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New to Homebrewing

All,

Thanks everyone for your responses (both on here and via private
email)!  It amazes me how willing everyone is to share the knowledge
they've gained and the opinions they've formed over their brewing
time.  You guys have been infinitely more helpful than any homebrewing
forum in which I've posted!

I was reading the very end of the last post in the previous HBD
(mentioned cleaning conicals v. carboys), and an excellent point was
raised: you can't get your hands inside a carboy to scrub it, and it
seem to me that a carboy brush is a rather inefficient mechanism for
cleaning.  I'm curious to know whether or not cleaning a conical is
really that easy: despite having a zillion little parts to sanitize,
I'd think that'd involve making a big batch of Star San, tossing the
stuff you want to sanitize in, and then giving it a few minutes to
sit.  It seems easier to do that than to spend a bunch of time
scrubbing away to get that *one* spot with a carboy brush.

I'm not too concerned (at the moment) about being able to do a
secondary fermentation in the same vessel or harvest yeast a lot more
easily; I'm told that both are often-cited benefits of a conical, but
that many people intend to use those features when they get a conical
and then never quite get around to it.  The road to Hell is paved with
good intentions, right?  :)

I'd love to hear what you guys think.

Daniel


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:27:33 -0400
From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: Chloramine and Campden Tablets

Dr. Wizzard is quite correct: Campden tablets are a fine way of removing 
chloramine (and chlorine) from water though as I noted in an earlier 
post my homebrew supplier has reported that he and one of his customers 
had problems with batches of beer which they blamed on the use of 
Campden tablets. Polling readers of HBD showed that many dechlorinate by 
this method as a matter of course and have been doing so for years. Thus 
we dismiss the problems these 2 brewers encountered as most likely to 
have been caused by something else.

The reaction of momochloramine with bisulfite goes as

 S2O5-- + 2 H2NCl + 3H2O --> 2SO4--  + 2H+  + 2Cl- + 2NH4+

IOW the sulfite is oxidized to sulfate and the chloramine reduced to 
chloride and ammonium ions. Thus mash sulfate is increased slightly 
while the yeast will consume the ammonium (frequently an ingredient in 
packaged yeast nutrients). The details of the stoichimetry can be found 
in my old BT article at http://ajdel.wetnewf.org:81/ but roughly 
speaking 1 Campden tablet should be sufficient to treat 20 gallons of 
water chlorinated/chloraminated to 3 mg/L which is typical of most 
supplies. In this case your nose is a good enough instrument for 
determining a proper (if not the exact) dose. If, after treatment, you 
can smell chlorine, more bisulfite is needed. If, after treatment, you 
smell sulfur dioxide, you have added too much bisulfite. Use a little 
less next time but a bit of excess at the levels being discussed here 
won't hurt a bit.

So if your goal is to dechlorinate/dechloraminate AND deoxygenate then 
observe that it takes 2 Campden tablets per 5 gallons to get the oxygen 
out and 1/4 Campden tablet (per 5 gallons) to get the 
chlorine/chloramine at the normal maximum level of 3 mg/L. Thus if you 
dose with 2 tablets per 5 gallons you will certainly get all the 
chlorine/chloramine and most of the oxygen. Add the extra quarter tablet 
if you like. Note that there is no reason to deoxygenate mash, sparge or 
kettle makeup water. It is important to deoxygenate water used to dilute 
beer after fermentation and before bottling.

In the case of the experiment I reported on yesterday chlorine and 
chloramie were not part of the equation as the water was drawn from a 
well and is thus, happily devoid of either.

A.J.


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:24:54 -0400
From: Pete Limosani <peteLimo at comcast.net>
Subject: Hops for Donation/Trade

Fellow Brewers,
Last fall, when I learned of the upcoming hops crisis, I bought a number of
Cascade plugs at my two local HBSs. I have 15 oz left and will only use 3 oz
before my backyard vines are ready to harvest.

So, I have 12 oz that will go unused. They have been in the freezer since I
bought them in October 2007, but they are not vacuum sealed. The HBS packaged
them in 1.5 oz baggies that are twist tied, so they are not labelled as to the
crop year either. The aroma is not great, but it's Ok. My Pale Ales have been
good, but not as good as last year as far as that circusy Cascade aroma is
concerned, but the bitterness has been fine. They are labelled 5.5% AA.

I am happy to donate them to anyone who's unable to get Cascade in plug form.


Toward the end of the summer, my Cascade vines will get harvested (this is
their second year here and, man, they outgrew my 20 foot trellis before the
summer solstice!). I am anticipating more yield than I will need for the next
year. So, I'm wondering if any hop growers out there would like to trade some
home-grown Columbus, Chinook, Tettnang, Fuggles, others for some Cascade from
my vine?

Please send me a note if you are interested in the Cascade plugs or in
trading some home-grown hops.

Thanks.

/Pete/






Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:45:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glyn and Mary <graininfuser at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Oxidation of Frozen Liquid?

>I could sanitize a 12 oz. beer bottle and fill it with the8 oz. of leftover 
>concentrate, cap and refreeze.

I would think a heavy duty freezer bag would be better than a bottle. 
The bottle may break when the liquid is re-frozen. Oxidation I will 
leave for someone else.

Glyn
So. Middle TN



      


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:07:55 -0700
From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpu at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: A Trick for the Conical

> When it becomes time to drain, simply open the bottom valve and go to
> it.  At time, however, the first drainings may be quite sluggish like peanut
> butter.  This is where the tubing comes in handy.  With the bottom closed
> and top open squeeze the tubing like milking a cow.  This forces yeast in
> the tube upward into the upper valve, thus helping to break up the peanut
> butter.  If that doesn't work, you can always take the lid off and poke
> around with a piece of welding rod (or coat hanger) to break up the sludge.
> Once that is accomplished, slowly begin draining.

I find that adding a little pressure is a whole lot easier.  What I do
is take off the airlock, put a pressure hose connected to a CO2
canister in its place, and add 1 or 2 lbs of pressure.  This is just
enough to get the "peanut butter," as you called it, to push slowly
out the hose connected to the bottom dump valve.  You have to be
careful as it will start moving a whole lot quicker near the end of
dumping.  I've had quite a mess on my hands on more than one occasion.
 This works with a Blichmann Ferminator because when you close the
bottom dump valve, it simply pops the bung off rather than building up
pressure in the conical.  The Ferminator also has a emergency pressure
relief valve, in case the bung is on too tight.  I'm not so sure about
other brands of conicals, like B3.

I've read that using pressure to perform a bottom dump is not uncommon
in commercial settings as well.  If it is good enough for the big
boys, it is good enough for me.

I've never had to fish around in my conical with a coat hanger.  That
sounds problematic to me.  The less things that come in contact with
the beer, the happier I am.

I also use pressure to rack my beer into a keg after it is done.  This
works really well, and I don't have to move the fermenter out of my
refrigerator to a countertop to gravity feed, stirring up the
remaining yeast.

Dave
Tucson, AZ
http://hunahpu.blogspot.com/


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:22:54 -0400
From: drsmith <hbd at aperature.org>
Subject: keg cleaning

> The  downside is that you can't open them up for cleaning without
> some difficulty (or a special spring compressor tool) which means   
> that they must be cleaned by chemical means in the blind. The real   
> issue is beerstone.
> Once that stuff starts to form scrubbing (you obviously have to take  
>  the spear out to do this) with acid is about the only way to get it  
>  out and rinsing with acid after every few cleanings is the only way  
>  to prevent it (that I know about).
>
> A.J.

Interesting.  I've been using corny kegs (and now sankey) stainless
kegs for quite a while.  I've always cleaned them using a hot PBW soak
and followed that up with StarSan for sanitizing prior to filling.
For the corny keg, I could just barely get my arm in there with a
sponge to scrub any really stubborn soils out, but I can't do that on
the sankey kegs.

After reading your post, I did a search and found this paper on the subject:

http://www.birkocorp.com/brewing/beerstone.asp

 ... and suddenly I have more questions as I'm not entirely sure the
cleaning procedure I've been using is enough to ensure the kegs don't
get a build up in them.  I do remove the spear for cleaning, though -
at least that way I can at least get a carboy brush in there if
nothing else.

What processes do others use for sankey kegs and why?  I'm inclined to
stay with what I've been using since it seems to work for me, but
maybe there's a better way.

- --Darrin




Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:16:24 -0400
From: Joe Brandt <vzd1s11k at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Software and Equipment


> Subject: Re: Software and Equipment
Beer Tools has a beta test for it's Linux version.

http://www.beertools.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=13
You will have to register and ask to beta test.  I use it for every brew .
- -- 
Joe Brandt 
100% Microsoft Free & Loving it!!


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:48:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nick Trubov <ntrubov at swbell.net>
Subject: bottle or keg

I know it has been said (I even remember READING it
"somewhere") that those plastic bottles that soda pop
come in are NOT good for bottling beer.

May I disagree?

Thank you.

I have been using "used" plastic pop bottles for a
couple of years now. The caps MAY wear out EVENTUALLY,
but I have never had one fail.

What I HAVE found is that the two liter bottles are
just a little too large in MY use. I like the 33.8
fluid ounce bottles. They are perfectly clear so you
can see any "dirt" that might "grow" in them if they
aren't cleaned and stored properly. I wash 'em out
when they are empty and put the cap back on (when they
are DRY -- VERY DRY) and then place them in a large
trash bag out in the garage. When I am ready to
bottle, I bring twenty bottles in and "sterilize them"
with iodophor solution and don't even bother to rinse
'em out. I just dump the iodophor solution back into
the pitcher that I use for filling 'em, after a couple
minutes, so I can wash out some more. Twenty of 'em
takes care of a five gallon batch.

These bottles are TOUGH. They will NOT explode (at
least I have never gotten one to burst. If they ever
DO explode it would be due to a pressure WAY beyond
anything you would be creating in a home environment.
Someone, once, told me that they would only be good
for ONE use after the soda pop was out of 'em. I have
used several of them four or more times and they still
work just fine. They are small enough to be used as
"gifts" and they are large enough to fill a "pitcher"
and have a "couple" for yourself and a friend.

So, whatever you do, DON'T use plastic bottles (unless
you have some and want to see for yourself) since "it
has been written and published".

Thanks,
That's all I have to say about that.

==========================
Nick Trubov
and all the LITTLE Trubovs
Lorree, Corbin and Alex
==========================


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 22:24:21 -0400
From: "jeff_ri" <jeff_ri at cox.net>
Subject: re: New to Homebrewing & Souring a Witbier

Hi All,

  In HBD #5362 Daniel Chappell asked about equipment for a new homebrewer.

  I'm very much of the keep-it-simple philosophy.  As people have already 
said, great beer can be brewed on very simply equipment and fancy equipment 
can produce poor quality brew.  As a new brewer you should probably focus 
more on the basics (sanitation, techniques, recipe formulation, etc.) than 
on fancy/expensive equipment.  Just my 2 cents worth, YMMV.

  In HBD #5364 Dave Larsen asked about souring a witbier.

  I've had great results with using the powdered acid blend distributed by 
Crosby & Baker.  One quarter of a teaspoon in 5 gallons produces a nice 
subtle sourness.  I add it at 10 minutes before the end of the boil.  If I 
remember correctly the acid blend is made of citric, malic and tartaric 
acids.

  I've been reading the HBD since 1994, but post only occasionally.  It's 
great to see the increase in traffic lately!

Jeff McNally
Tiverton, RI
(652.2 miles, 90.0 deg) A.R.
www.southshorebrewclub.org




Return to table of contents

---