HOMEBREW Digest #5407 Sun 31 August 2008

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


               The Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
              Visit them at http://aabg.org 
    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

DONATE to the Home Brew Digest. Home Brew Digest, Inc. is a 
501(c)3 not-for-profit organization under IRS rules (see the
FAQ at http://hbd.org for details of this status). Donations
can be made by check to Home Brew Digest mailed to:

HBD Server Fund
PO Box 871309
Canton Township, MI 48187-6309

or by paypal to address serverfund@hbd.org. DONATIONS of $250 
or more will be provided with receipts. SPONSORSHIPS of any 
amount are considered paid advertisement, and may be deductible
under IRS rules as a business expense. Please consult with your 
tax professional, then see http://hbd.org for available 
sponsorship opportunities.

  A.J.'s Beer color (Scott/Linda Bruslind)" <analabor@peak.org>
  Re: Pansy water and what do to about it ("Craig S. Cottingham")
  Pansy Water ("A.J deLange")
  Custom glassware ("Doug Moyer")
  Pansy water... (slaycock)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The HBD Logo Store is now open! * * http://www.hbd.org/store.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning, and Spencer Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:44:06 -0700 From: "Analysis_Lab (Scott/Linda Bruslind)" <analabor at peak.org> Subject: A.J.'s Beer color Don't go slumming on the MBAA website that Fred linked, go to the source. You can get the Abstract free. http://www.asbcnet.org/journal/toc/2008/jno308tc.htm So, what happens next, you hbd'ers are asking yourselves, breathless with anticipation and/or poor pulmonary fitness? A new/alternative method subcommittee will be drawn up (volunteers?) and an interlaboratory, designed experiment (inevitably, a Youden Unit Block) will be conducted. Results will be reported to the Technical Committee and then published in the ASBCJ. A decision to accept the new method and then amend Beer-10A in the Methods of Analysis (MOA) will follow. The European Brewing Convention http://www.europeanbreweryconvention.org/ and Brewing Convention of Japan http://www.brewers.or.jp/bcoj/bcoj-en.html may adopt as suits their members. As an outside chance, it's quite possible Jeff Cornell will review and add A.J.'s transformations to an embedded calculator available in the CD version of the MOA. This is the age of miracles and wonderment. Congratulations, indeed, to Herr DeLange. I've got to get a scanning spectrophotometer. Scott Bruslind Lacomb, OR Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 07:41:34 -0500 From: "Craig S. Cottingham" <craig.cottingham at gmail.com> Subject: Re: Pansy water and what do to about it On Aug 29, 2008, at 10:13, "Samuel Bosco" <samuel.bosco at gmail.com> wrote: > My house water is softened by a Culligan water softener. I know > that by > itself this water is generally useless for brewing. [ ... ] > Are there any salt amendments that give the full suite of important > brewing > salts? Would the proper addition just Burton > salts be enough to support yeast health and brew a good ale or would a > cocktail of salts be required? The first thing to do would be to get your water analyzed. Rule #1 is "you can't control what you don't measure." I've seen various mentions here of labs that do water analysis; hopefully someone will pipe up with a recommendation. You say that the sodium is below your taste threshold, but it still may be high enough to affect the flavor of your beer. (That's just me speculating; I don't have any water chemistry literature close at hand.) If it *does* end up being higher than you want, you can always cut some of your tap water with reverse-osmosis drinking water. > When does one add the salts? Mash? Pre Mash? Boil? Sparge? Since the calcium has been stripped from your water, you'll need to add at least some of the minerals to your mash water, or you won't get good conversion of starch to sugars. > What are some good texts that can explain this subject (be they > zymurgy/byo > articles or internet articles or book chapters) If I remember correctly, John Palmer's book _How to Brew_ has a good chapter on water chemistry. - -- Craig S. Cottingham BJCP Certified judge from Olathe, KS ([621, 251.1deg] Apparent Rennerian) craig.cottingham at gmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:45:15 -0400 From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net> Subject: Pansy Water Sam: You are asking a bunch of questions the answers to which could fill the digest for weeks. If you look back in the archives you will indeed finds months' worth of posts on this subject. The problem is they aren't sorted in any particularly useful way and perspectives have changed somewhat over the years so it's probably worthwhile to review where we are now and this might get you pointed in the right direction. To start with water softeners: what they do is remove beneficial (from the brewers perspective) calcium and magnesium from the water replacing them with sodium (which may be detrimental from the cardiologist's point of view but not particularly so from the brewer's unless the level of sodium is high enough that the water and resulting beer taste salty). They do not touch detrimental bicarbonate. The job of calcium and magnesium in brewing water is to offset the effects of bicarbonate in raising mash pH. Sodium can't do this. That is the problem. Rather than removing the water softener perhaps you can tap into the system in front of it. In well installations there is usually a drain valve for the pressure tank which can be accessed. In any case a saddle valve (used for connecting ice makers humidifiers, etc.) can be installed upstream. Another alternative, usually available in modern softeners, is a built in bypass valve which you could operate while drawing brewing water and restore to its normal position when finished. SWMBO wouldn't even have to know this has been done. The only thing different between softened and unsoftened water (by the usual home water softener) is the replacement of Ca and Mg by Na. Bicarbonate, chloride, sulfate, and nitrate will all be the same. For example, my water with Ca hardness of about 80, Mg hardness of about 40, alkalinity at about 80, chloride at 7, sulfate at 28 and sodium at about 10 mg/L would, after passing through a softener, look like approximately Ca and Mg harndesses of 1 each, alkalinity at 80, chloride at 7, sufate at 28 and sodium at about 65 mg/L - hardly a blank canvas unless the incoming water is low in minerals to begin with in which case a softener would not be installed (unless the salesman was very clever). Even so it is possible to approximate the water of any region you choose provided that 1) you know what the ion profile of that water is 2) you know the profile of the water you are starting with 3) you are willing to accept that the laws of chemistry will only allow an approximation in many cases. Point 1 is important because there are many reports of what, for example, the ion profile of Munich is that are chemically impossible. This is because averages are reported, inconsistencies in units, errors in recording, measurement and reporting and changes in values over time as the reports are passed from brewer to brewer. One also needs to keep in mind that there is little point in duplicating the hardness and alkalinity of Munich water in preparation for making a Helles as the first step is going to be softening/decarbonation of that water. In any case the first step is in understanding what you have to work with. If on a well send a sample (pre softener ) off to a lab. If on a municipal supply get the annual water quality report from the municipality. It is a simple matter to calculate post softener results from pre-softener data. Based on your supply you can then decide how to go about getting the water you need. If your water should be high in hardness and alkalinity but low in everything else (like Munich's) then you can decarbonate (by treating with lime or boiling) and perhaps dilute with some purchased DI or RO water. Another option is to install an RO device (in front of the softener) to obtain RO water for blending or for use with salt additions to approximate a desired ion progile. Salt additions to low mineral content water can be obtained from the recipes posted on my website (www.wetnewf.org). If the water is more or less normal it is still possible to supplement with salts to approximate desired properties. With the exception of hardness and alkalinity it is difficult to remove ions (RO, anion/cation exhangers will serve but tend to be expensive and slow). Thus you can't expect to acheive a profile with less of something than your source water unless you dilute that something to below the desired level (or remove it somehow). Working with diluted tap water is very doable. Dilute enough to get the largest item you want down to where you want it (e.g. I have 28 mg/L sulfate and would like a quarter of that for Bohemian Pils so dilute 3:1 with RO water) and then supplement back up anything that got diluted too much in attacking the main offender. For synthesis from low mineral content (or DI) water I've got a spreadsheet which I'm working on for an upcoming brewing water class which I suppose is far enough along that I can post it and I've done so. It's also at www.wetnewf.org. Bear in mind that it needs a little polish. Finally, the perspective seems to have shifted from slavish attempts to duplicate the water of, for example, Dortmund to the more practical assessment of Residual Alkalinity (hardness and alkality dependent) and adjustment to get proper mash pH with tweaking of "stylistic" ions (sodium, sulfate, chloride) to get the desired flavor effects. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 22:20:23 -0400 From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com> Subject: Custom glassware For those of you that have ordered custom glassware, can you share your experiences? I'd like to order a dozen or two "tasting" glasses - something in the 4 oz. range, printed with a personal logo. Ideas? Comments? I might also order a few dozen for my homebrew club - be nice to have at the meetings... Brew on! Doug Moyer Troutville, VA Star City Brewers Guild: http://www.starcitybrewers.org Beers wot I drunk: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shyzaboy/sets/72157603460612903/ Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:44:41 -0500 (CDT) From: slaycock at discoverynet.com Subject: Pansy water... "Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:13:14 -0400 From: "Samuel Bosco" <samuel.bosco at gmail.com> Subject: Pansy water and what do to about it My house water is softened by a Culligan water softener. I know that by itself this water is generally useless for brewing. At the outset of this question I would like to request that no one replies in the vein of "remove the water softener" because that is not going to happen (I do not control the utilities of the house) and I am not ready to move out." I'm far from a water chemist, but Ive got a thought. It's likely that the only water that goes through the water softener are the water for inside usage. Do you have an outdoor spigot (faucet) for gardening or general watering purposes that isnt hooked up to the softener? If so, you could use that water with a good filter and have a better starting point for your brewing water. Steve High Water Brewhaus - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 08/31/08, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster@hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96