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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  RE: Belgian Candi Sugar (Josh Knarr)
  A hard day's brew ("Jerry \"Beaver\" Pelt")
  candi sugar (steve alexander)


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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:06:12 -0500
From: Josh Knarr <josh.knarr at gmail.com>
Subject: RE: Belgian Candi Sugar

I just had this same discussion over on beer advocate - what's
people's observations about the "cider" taste from table sugar?

Just for gits and shiggles, I brewed up a 1 gallon batch of the following:
* ENTIRELY TABLE SUGAR
* 50/50 Table Sugar, Muntons "Light" Dry Malt Extract
* 20/80 Table Sugar, Muntons "Light" Dry Malt Extract

This was to repeat the Great Belgian Experiment from homebrew radio.
Since the flavor threshhold was supposedly 20%, I figured I would make
one at 20% and see what happened. I also used a bread yeast, which
aggressively converts everything it can while being relatively neutral
in flavor. (This was "all purpose whole grain bread yeast" from
giant).

All of them (to me) came out cidery. The 100% sugar one was amazing,
it somehow came out to be the woodchuck dry cider flavor. It actually
wasn't bad at all chilled, but don't expect beer. I am ashamed to
admit I would probably make this again as a "hard cider" recipe for
parties, but using a better yeast. The 50/50 one was the worst of the
lot, it was beer-y, but then finished dry and cidery (but less so).
Tossing a lemon in there only remedied it a bit. I would not drink
this one again. The final one almost passed as Chimay's White. If I
had used hops (fuggles comes to mind), it MIGHT have covered up the
taste. Of all the "cidery" "beers", this was the least cidery but
still detectable without other factors like hops.

I think if I was brewing (now that I've ruined my palette tracking
down that taste) I would use any of the darker sugars various places
have for sale which are specficly for brewing, rather than risk it.
Also viable now is the DIY guide -
http://www.franklinbrew.org/brewinfo/candi_sugar.html - which looks
doable for any homebrewer. If you've read SACRED HERBAL AND HEALING
BEERS, also notice that a lot of the beers which call for sugar also
call for Lemon or Orange. It's my guess that medieval brewers were
doing the "sugar invert" before it really was understood.

- --

Katharine Hepburn  - "Death will be a great relief. No more interviews."


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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 08:10:37 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jerry \"Beaver\" Pelt" <beaverplt at yahoo.com>
Subject: A hard day's brew

After a two year hiatus from brewing, (unemployment sucks) 
I finally was able to get back in the game so to speak. 
Got all the goodies to make a 6 gallon batch of pilsner 
and set to work yesterday. Everything went fine and dandy 
until the third temperature rest at 158 degrees when 
I accidentally turned the stove down to low instead of off. 
Considering the volume I believe I still achieved a complete 
conversion. My iodine test was ok. I finished the mash, 
lautered, and started the boil. While things were cooking 
I grabbed my 6 gal carboy, cleaned it thoroughly, and 
promptly dropped it in the sink shattering it into 
lots of pieces. All I had to put the brew in then 
is 5 gal carboys.
My question is this, knowing that most of you have 
probably been through this same type of thing, will 
my 5 gal batch be OK with 6 gal of ingredients? 
My OG was right on target, so I think so, but 
I'm just looking for a little confirmation. 
(OK, and I wanted to whine)



      


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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:24:18 -0500
From: steve alexander <steve-alexander at roadrunner.com>
Subject: candi sugar

I'm no expert on Belgian beers or candi sugar but a few points ....

Most NA sugar is sucrose made from refined sugar cane.  Our common 
"brown sugar" is less refined and the brown coloration has the same 
basic content as molasses (which is made from the residue of the cane 
refining process).   Molasses can have significant levels of iron which 
can lead to a not-so-great flavor in beer and is one of the metal ions 
we'd prefer to not introduce in beer.   I can't say whether a brown 
sugar addition can be harmful to beer flavor but it's generally not in 
moderation.

For mostly political reasons the EU underwrite sugar beet farming in the 
EU, tho' it is clearly cost-ineffective, so most "table sugar" in Europe 
is sucrose from sugar beets.  In my experience there is no discernible 
flavor difference in a white sugar from beets or cane source when added 
modately to a beverage or dish, but several sources note thet beet sugar 
has a bitter aftertaste so it can't be used for certain purposes - 
perhaps soft drinks - I don't recall at the moment.  Perhaps it's a 
matter of the degree of refining.

UK brewing texts also refer to "chip sugar" a sort of dark confectioners 
sugar, which is/was made by acid hydrolysis of starch and has a high 
content of glucose and a deep color (200-500EBC).   These *were* 
processed in the past by adding some nitrogenous compounds and 
heating.   This would cause not only caramelization but would also 
produce Maillard products that would additionally add to the flavor and 
color.  Processing with nitrogen compounds is now frowned upon as 
potentially carcinogenic in quantity.  Hardly surprising that of the 
thousands of Maillard products some are naughty.   FWIW even caramel is 
considered a potential mutagen.  Anyway, anyone drinking beer is 
probably taking much bigger health risks than from Maillard products and 
caramel.

In the US, corn syrup is a form of hydrolyzed starch - mostly glucose, 
but typically the hydrolysis is enzymatic these days and often vanilla 
is added to the light colored stuff.   Dark corn syrup is said to be 
colored with molasses products leading in a dubious flavor direction.  
It *seems* like caramelising pure corn syrup or a solution of corn sugar 
or glucose to a dark color would approach the goal, but I can easily 
imaging some scorching before you hit 200EBC in a home setup ... double 
boilers come to mind ... toil & trouble too.

Apparently UK types and some Europeans & Aussies use a slightly 
caramelized golden sucrose (Lyles the most famous) syrup on their 
waffles.  The Japanese use a hydrolysed clear syrup from rice or barley 
starch to the same end.  The Algonquin delicacy of maple syrup seems to 
limited to parts of NA.  Any attempt to insert  maple syrup in beers 
requires a light touch.  I've had exactly one good example of an ale w/ 
maple syrup addition but it's very easy to over-do the maple flavor 
impact and ruin the beer.

What I'd like to see is a dark caramelized glucose syrup w/o much 
molasses or beet residue as an adjunct but aside from caramelizing it 
myself I don't see an easy source.

Rather then emulate the Brits and Belgians with very dark sugar adjunct 
perhaps the  approach should be to get  caramel and melanoidins from 
malt and use light sugar to thin out the body & maltiness.  Sounds more 
practical to one who isn't a fundamentalist wrt  brewing tradition.

 -S




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