---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  kegging (cheap) (Joe Uknalis)
  Culture Guinness from bottle? (vanhovej)
  Maple Flavored Beer... (chaos)
  When to bottle? (Kevin N. Carpenter)
  Re: Mark Rouleau is worrying, dammit! (Marc Rouleau)
  Stout yeast (Mark Beck)
  RE: Homebrew Digest #548 (December 03, 1990)  ("Independent Software Vendor Group, Mtn View, CA")
  Hops in Anchor Liberty Ale (Ken Giles)
  Authentic wheat beer flavours (or lack of..) (foster)
  Rheinheitsgebot & Counting CO2 glubs (Jay Hersh)
  counting bubbles (mike_schrempp)
  Champagne bottles/purity laws/travel (Perry A. Trunick)
  Anchor Xmas Ale (Tom Nolan)
  No blowoff (Tom Nolan)
  Lager Fermentation Temperature? (Jeff Benson)
  Re:  Weizen Bier / Alabama laws (Karl Wolff)
  Recommended yeast for mead? (Chris Shenton)
  Pasteurized versus Unpasteurized Extract? (Marc Rouleau)
  Re: measuring attenuation (BLAJVM)
  RE:  Analytical Technique for Measuring Attenuation (Mike Fertsch)
  Honey & Yeast (2 parts) (Duane Smith)
  Chimay yeast again (mcnally)
  Re: Wine Bottles (Tom Wurtz)
  copper immersion chiller (mcnally)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Mon, 03 Dec 90 07:56:43 EST
From: Joe Uknalis <UKNALIS at VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      kegging (cheap)


Hey there out in homebrew land.  Of you who have set up a refrigerator
based kegging system- how much $$ did it run?  Were there ways to cut corners?
Are all soda syrup canisters the same??  Where are cheap CO2 containers????
Many thanks,

Dishpan hands

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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 09:34:16 EST
From: vanhovej at LONEX.RADC.AF.MIL
Subject: Culture Guinness from bottle?



Hello,
     I have been brewing (and following the digest) for only about a
year and am still an "extract brewer".  My father (the one who got me
started) has moved on to making some all grain brews and is currently
having a problem with a batch he wants to make.  He has an all grain
recipe for a beer that is supposed to be a pretty good likeness of
Guinness Stout.  The recipe calls for Guinness yeast to be cultured from
the bottle.  He has been anxiously watching his first attempt at culturing
this yeast for about a week now and hasn't seen anything promising.

     He used the last 1/2 inch of beer out of a bottle of Guinness and a
mixture of malt, yeast nutrient, and hops prepared and added to the
bottle.  We talked about what could be the problem and since his
procedure was good we were wondering if by the time the beer gets here
any remaining yeast is already past reviving.  I figured that he should
let his first culture go a while longer and in the mean time try another
using the bottom 1/2 inch of maybe a whole six pack of Guinness.  I told
him that I would submit the problem to this group and see if there is
anyone out there who has ever tried to culture this yeast before and if
so what advise would you give.

Thanks in Advance,

VH


Lt John C. Van Hove
vanhovej at lonex.radc.af.mil


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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 09:45:15 EST
From: wolfe at zeus.WEC.COM (chaos)
Subject: Maple Flavored Beer...


	To make Maple flavored beer one must use "maple syrup" for about
half of the total sugar [expensive proposition] or use a flavor makers
recipe.  One could try adding the following to the boil.  
	4 tablespoons feonegeek
	2 tablespoons strong instant coffee granules
	1 tablespoon vanilla extract

	add the above for each gallon of wort you are making...
	tastes like maple
			jim wolfe



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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 09:32:24 -0600
From: kncarp at wunoc.wustl.edu (Kevin N. Carpenter)
Subject: When to bottle?

Oh great and mighty homebrewers:  I am a complete novice that currently has both of my initial efforts
fermenting quietly in two 5 gallon secondaries.  Having read this digest for the last several
months (highlight of the morning), I have become relaxed but confused.  My local supply shop tells
me to prime and bottle only "when all visible fermentation has ceased".  I have recently read that
I should bottle after fermentation has slowed substantially...  So, which is it?  My first two batches 
are now 3 and 4 weeks old (the 4 week has been racked twice) and both are showing a slow trail of bubbles
up the sides of the carboys.  Is it time (or past time) to prime and bottle?

Kevin Carpenter
kncarp at nicsn1.monsanto.com

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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 1990 10:51:32 EST
From: Marc Rouleau <mer6g at virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: Mark Rouleau is worrying, dammit!

In my post asking about the slow fermentation of my brown ale, I mentioned
that I wanted to switch from two-stage fermentation (racking after 3-4
days) to single-stage in a 6.5 gallon carboy.  (BTW, thanks for your
advice and reassurance, Ken & Marc.)

On Nov 30, 10:56am, krweiss at ucdavis.edu (Ken Weiss) wrote:
>      The only comment I would make is that rather than doing a single stage 
> fermentation in a large carboy, I'd use the large carboy as a primary, and 
> continue to rack into 5 gallon secondaries after the krauesen settles down.

Dave Miller advocates single-stage fermentation in his book, The Handbook
of Home Brewing.  My understanding of his point of view is that if you
get good hot and cold breaks before you begin fermenting there won't be
any trub off of which to rack your beer.  He advocates chilling the wort
to below pitching temperature to maximize precipitation of trub, racking
to the fermenter, and pitching at fermentation temperature.  Given this
procedure, he thinks that it's better to wait until the fermentation is
done (1 glub/minute) and then rack to a 5 gallon carboy (possibly topping
up with water) for settling/clarification and/or lagering.

Not that Dave Miller is Mr. Perfect Brewer or anything, but he seems to
know what he's talking about ... any other points of view for this novice
brewer?

BTW, I need to build a wort chiller.  Does anyone have a file of chiller
comments from past issues that they'd like to forward to me?  Or if it's
time to talk about this on the Digest again, please do!  I'd like to make
an immersion chiller that can be hooked to a pump in order to use an
ice bath as a source.  What's a good size/power/brand pump to use?  Where
can I get one?  How much?

And oh yeah, I'd like to get a grain mill at some point.  Alternative
Beverage (1-800-TAP-BREW, Charlotte, NC) has a Corona with a large hopper
for $40.  Is that a good price?  Are there other brands/models available?

    -- Marc Rouleau

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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 11:02 EST
From: Mark Beck <BECK at optics.rochester.edu>
Subject: Stout yeast

	
	I'm interested in brewing a Russian Imperial Stout, and I'm looking
for suggestions as to what type of yeast would be best for this brew.  I've 
always used dry yeast in my previous batches, but after reading about the 
merits of liquid yeast cultures I'd like to give them a try.  I'm also willing
to try and culture some of my own.  I've got plenty of homebrew around-so I'm 
not worried about trying something different.

	Mark


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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 08:43:20 PST
From: "Independent Software Vendor Group, Mtn View, CA" <olson at sx4gto.enet.dec.com>
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #548 (December 03, 1990) 

Doug Dreger mentioned butterscotch flavors; he might be pleased with our
recent batch, Slug's Butterscotch Hug.

> brews is that there is an underlying carmely smoothness (butterscotchy)
> flavor, which I really enjoy.  The problem is in my attempts to duplicate
> this taste by adding Mollassus and greater than a pound of medium crystal
> malt produce great beers but they don't have the butterscotchy taste.
> 
> Does any one know how to achieve higher levels of diacytal, but not so
> high as to make it cloying? 

We're extract brewers, and get that flavor frequently with our special
mix of adjuncts; a ratio of 3:3:3:1 with roasted barley, Vienna Malt,
light crystal malt, and chocolate malt.  For a five gallon batch, its
usually 3/4 # of the first 3, 1/4 # of the last, with 6 or 7 pounds of
extract syrup.  I think the carmel, butterscotch taste is from the Vienna
Malt, because it was never there before.  Other beers we've brewed from
similar ratios have been named Vienna Carmel Apples, and Sweeties Caramel
Smoothie, all named (partly) for their distinctive flavors.

Slug & Sweetie
(Doug Olson & Stacey Jueal)

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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 08:30:20 PST
From: keng at epad.MENTOR.COM (Ken Giles)
Subject: Hops in Anchor Liberty Ale

In HBD #544, 
"KBS::TONS::HOLTSFORD" <holtsford%kbs.tons.decnet at clvax1.cl.msu.edu> wrote:
>
>I'm getting pretty close to duplicating its general characteristics
>[of Liberty Ale --] body, head, color, EtOH, overall bitterness -- 
>but I haven't quite found the right hop flavor and aroma.
>I've come closest by using Willamette, 
>(c. 1 oz for 10 minutes of the boil and c. 1 oz dry-hopped in the secondary).  

And in HBD #547, hplabs!garth!phipps (Clay Phipps) wrote:
>My notes from the AHA Brew-In at Anchor Brewing, on the occasion of the AHA 
>National Conference back on June 16, identify the following hops for Anchor:
>
>    Liberty:    Cascade
>    Porter:     Northern Brewer (3 separate additions of hops)
>    Steam(tm):  Northern Brewer
>
>We participated in their brewing--and boil-over[* :-) ]--of their Porter.  
>The first addition of hops used what I now remember as a food-grade 
>container much bigger than the plastic 10-gallon fermenter I have at home--
>so maybe maybe it was a 20 or 25-gallon container--most-of-the-way-full with 
>whole hops.  That's about as quantitative as I was able to be, operating on 
>the understanding that it is acceptable brewery-touring etiquette to ask 
>the variety of hops for a beer, but *not* the amount used.  
>One of the brewers did say that their Steam is brewed in a 120-barrel batch; 
>the porter is brewed in an approx. 75-barrel batch. 

Fred Eckhardt says, in The Essentials of Beer Style, that Anchor Liberty Ale
has a original gravity of 1061, a final gravity of 1013, and bitterness of
45 International Bittering Units (IBUs). The darkness (or lightness) is 5.5
degrees Lovibond.

IBUs can be calculated from the following formula:

   mg/liter of hops X alpha % X utilization % = IBU bitterness

Sorry I'm so late with this information. Hope it helps.

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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 08:56:41 PST
From: foster at rumor.enet.dec.com
Subject: Authentic wheat beer flavours (or lack of..)

I'd like to echo the sentiments of Marty Albini <martya at sdd.hp.com> regarding
W and/or Y yeasts for wheat beers. I brewed several batches this last summer, 
some all malt some all grain. I used both W and Y wheat beer yeasts. In *none* 
of them did I get any hint of that characteristic sourness or clove taste. They 
all came out good, clean, smooth but bland beers. I called Williams to ask if my 
process was off or was the yeast not up to snuff. They said that other brewers 
had complained about the yeast flavours and that they had toned down the 
clove/sourness components. After five batches I gave up in disgust.

  - Stan.

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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 11:42:23 EST
From: hersh at coco.ctc.tasc.com (Jay Hersh)
Subject: Rheinheitsgebot & Counting CO2 glubs


I have a friend who just recently moved back to Austria. While he was here
I got him started homebrewing. I have one of those double handled 1 Liter
grey ceramic mugs, which I got as a promotional item along with a keg
of Kulambacher Monschof Kloster-Schwarz Dark Beer (it was a great deal).
Anyway I asked my Austrian friend to translate it for me. After much
head scratching he gave up. He said that much of the text was "ancient"
language not of a kind commonly spoken today, and that it woudl be very
difficult to translate accurately. He is very good with English, so 
unless he was just being lazy (not to be discounted) I believe that an
accurate translation would require someone with some background in
history and languages. Perhaps such a translation already exists somewhere
in scholarly texts. Any university types willing to do a library search??

As for Pete Sopers long bit on CO2 counting. I'm not sure I got the total
gist of this Pete, but I have used a similar method for telling when 
my beers are done. Since typically I know what the temperature is, and
whether the beer has been undergoing any temperature changes I can account
for that. Shortly after beginning brewing I worried (say it aint so!!)
that continual gravity checks could introduce contaminants. I then began
to try to use airlock activity as a predictor of fermentation completion.
I have never had a problem with this and use this technique still today.

Basically I just sit and listen to me beer. I relax don't worry, and when 
the beer tells me it is ready to bottle I go for it. It is a sort of Zen
approach, but it works fine for me.

 - JH

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Date:         3 Dec 90 07:52 -0800
From: mike_schrempp%29 at hp4200.desk.hp.com
Subject:     counting bubbles

IN HBD 548 Pete Soper talks about counting bubbles. I've done this on all
the beers I've made so far. For us analytic types this is just the thing to
pass the time while relaxing, etc. The one thing I keep meaning to try is to
get a graduated cylinder, fill it with water and invert it in a pan of water
then run a tube from the airlock into it. This would be a way to measure the
actual amount of CO2 produced. If the total amount of CO2 was measured after
a complete fermentation could the total amount of alcohol produced be
calculated?

One hint for those trying this for the first time, make sure you plot bubbles
per second on your graph paper and not seconds per bubble. This will get you
that neat graph in the books.

Also, I've timed the glubs from my 1.25" blowoff tube as well. After getting the
airlock on (after high Kraeusen) I rescale these numbers (by trial and error)
until the line on my graph lines up with the airlock numbers. An actual use for
spreadsheets.

Mike Schrempp


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Date: Sat, 1 Dec 90 00:08:26 -0500
From: ag297 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Perry A. Trunick)
Subject: Champagne bottles/purity laws/travel



To use wine bottles for beer, ask for "American" champagne
bottles.  They ahve the lip which will hold the crown.  If you
use a cork, you'd probably be able to get the wire cage 
or whatever you call it from a winemaking store (probably the
same place you get beer supplies).

The German purity laws were used recently in an effort to
protect the German market from imports of a French liquer
known as Cassis Dijon.  The Germans tried to ban it on the
basis of the old purity laws.  The French took them to the
European Court of Justice and, after 8 years, the final
decision was in favor of the French.  It established one of
the most important precedents of the Single Market process--
mutual recognition.  Under the Single Market Act (or the 
Europe 1992 process as it's often referred to) and this
court precedent, a product which is acceptable and meets the
standards of one European Community country MUST be accepted
(recognized) by the other members.

With the sense of history, my brewing interest, and the
significance the brewing purity laws in the Cassis Dijon
case, I'd be interested in a poster.

As for travelling with homebrew, haven't found much yet.
Alcohol is permitted as a carry on as long as it is not
consumed on the plane.  Witness duty-free alcohol which
must be in your possession (and can even be purchased on
most international flights).  That may be a helpful
argument if confronted.  I'll update if I learn more.

- --
                     The most important thing you have to know
                     in life is yourself.

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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 13:45:58 -0500
From: nolan at lheavx.DNET.NASA.GOV (Tom Nolan)
Subject: Anchor Xmas Ale

I also picked up a box of the new Anchor Xmas Ale. It says in huge
letters on the box "KEEP REFRIGERATED". It was on the open floor
in the store. I called the manager's attention to this, and he
blamed his distributor, who he claims stores and distributes it
warm. This kind of thing wouldn't cut it in a grocery store.

Anyway, I didn't fuss about it, and the beer is great. I fail 
to notice any "spruce", but maybe I'm not attuned to it. 
Cinnamon and cloves, I'd say. It's a pricey beer, but it sure
is good.

Tom

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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 13:52:15 -0500
From: nolan at lheavx.DNET.NASA.GOV (Tom Nolan)
Subject: No blowoff

Duane Smith asks (worries?) why he isn't getting any blowoff in his primary 
fermentation. He doesn't mention the original gravity. 

I regularly brew from fairly low original gravity (in the 1.030-1.036
range, say) and get no blowoff. The krauesen gets up a couple of inches and 
fermentation is usually over in less than a week. I stick in a blowoff tube 
just in case, then replace it with an airlock for the rest of the primary. 
I don't do a secondary for this type of brew, just bottle in a week. It's 
quick, it's easy, and it's low alcohol, so I can drink more fresh homebrew
without getting stupid at dinner.

Tom

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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 13:48:33 CDT
From: Jeff Benson <benson at chemsun.chem.umn.edu>
Subject: Lager Fermentation Temperature?

In HD #548, Pete Soper concluded his report on measuring attenuation
thus:

> ...
> The problem in my opinion is that as homebrewers with liquid yeast
> cultures we are usually pitching way too little yeast or fumbling the
> temperature changes in the wrong way.

That line got me to thinking and prompted me to ask for some advice
about fermentation temperatures for lager brews.

A friend and I brewed a Xmas lager last night (I know, it's a little
late).  I was very pleasantly surprised to find that one of the local
homebrew supply stores carried Wyeast liquid yeast (it's American Wine
Merchants on Lake St. for those Twin Cities-area folks in the audience)
so I got a package of the Danish lager (I forget the number) to try.
This was my first time using liquid yeast but everything went very
smoothly (dry extract based brew).  Scheduling conflicts prevented me
from making a starter culture but the yeast had a good 24 hours to start
inside the package (which was very firm) so I'm not worrying about it
taking hold.  My understanding is the Wyeast doesn't require a
starter but in general it's a good idea to use one.

We pitched at 74 F and placed the carboy in a spot that will likely
remain in the mid to high 60s F.  Here's the problem(s).  My friend's apt.
is rather warm overall (probably mid to high 70s F) and where we sited
the carboy, while generally cooler than the rest of the place, may be
subject to temperature swings into the 70s.  There are other places in
the building which are cooler but we're not sure whether they won't get
too cold (< 32 F, ambient is in the 20s here now).  So, my questions are:

1)  Is it general practise to let liquid lager yeast start (i.e. reach
visible fermentation) at warmer temps and then cool later to your
fermentation temperature later or do you keep everything at one temperature?

2)  If you do cool the fermenter, when do you do it?  During high
krausen?  In our case, we may be able to move it to a place in the
basement that might stay in the 50s (I'm guessing, we need to measure
it) but I don't want to shock the poor yeasties into hibernation.

3)  How sensitive are the Wyeast strains to temperature shock, particularly
the Danish?

4)  Should we just leave well enough alone, and live with the too high
temperature?  There is much to merit this approach, e.g. avoid upsetting
the yeast, aerating the wort, not to mention dropping the carboy.

My experience to this point has been with dry yeasts (without a starter).
I have had occasional problems with fermentations not catching on if the
temperature was too low to begin with (lager yeast or no) so that's why
I chose to leave our fermenter in the warm room.  Perhaps this isn't
necessary with the Wyeast but I wanted to err on the side of caution.
I have read the previous discussions on (some of) these topics in
previous digests but somehow they just don't register until you
encounter the situation yourself.  Thanks in advance for any help.

Jeff Benson
benson at chemsun.chem.umn.edu

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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 12:43:37 CST
From: Karl Wolff <wolff at aqm.ssc.af.mil>
Subject: Re:  Weizen Bier / Alabama laws

In HBD #548, Mike Charlton says that the Beer tastes better if
you are careful not to pour out the yeast.  I must argue this 
point with him.  In my experiance in Germany, (I lived there for
four and one-half [4 1/2] years), it was the yeast that gave the 
Weizen its special flavor.  Anyway, I just wanted to get my two 
cents in on that subject.

Question 2:  A couple of weeks ago someone in Alabama and myself 
posted a question about the laws on Homebrew in Alabama.  I haven't
seen any answers posted yet.  Have there been replys posted and I 
have just missed them or has nobody posted anything.  Anybody that
can tell me anything about the laws regarding Homebrewing in Alabama
Please send to me directly.  No sense in cluttering up the Digest with
something that only concerns a couple of folks.  

Karl R. Wolff Jr.  

Relax and Have a Homebrew.

- ----- I am the Lizard King.     I can do anything! -----

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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 15:12:31 EST
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Recommended yeast for mead?

Which yeasts are best for mead? I assume something which can survive high
alcohol levels... Are the Montrachet (?) wine yeasts appropriate? Anyone
have any experience mixing varieties, eg: one for initial fermentation and
taste/character profile, one for late (slow) fermentation?

Any hints for getting carbonation? My two attempts have been flat -- 
er, ``still -- and while reasonably good, I'd like to do a sparkling one.

Thanks in advance.

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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 1990 15:58:15 EST
From: Marc Rouleau <mer6g at virginia.edu>
Subject: Pasteurized versus Unpasteurized Extract?

The owner of The Homebrewer's Store (1-800-TAP-BREW, Seattle) claims
that in addition to his excellent prices (6 lbs. malt extract  at  $7.95)
his quality is also superior.  He gets "commercial grade" extract in
55 gallon drums and repackages it in 6 lb plastic tubs.  He says that
canned extracts are pasteurized but that his are not.  I asked him why
that mattered, and he said that pasteurization removes "the enzymes".

This line of reasoning sounds kinda fishy to me.  I thought enzymes
were useful only at the mashing stage.  The mash-out is supposed to
deactivate them anyway, right?  To what sorts of enzymes do you think
he might be referring?  I asked him why they were needed in the boil,
and he just responded that all the brewpubs and microbreweries want
their extracts to be unpasteurized.  Is this true?  If so, what's the
real reason?

    -- Marc Rouleau

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Date: 03 Dec 90 15:44:18 CST
From: BLAJVM at primed.weeg.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: measuring attenuation


Additional thoughts on Pete Soper's bubble counting:

I've kept a log of time vs. bubble-count for most my brews.  It does
give a very good indication of how quickly the fermentation is
progressing.  Unfortunately, it is probably different from one
fermentation lock to the next, and definitely different if the
fermentation locks are different types.  However, I think that you
should be able to "calibrate" a fermentation lock so that you could
compare your bubble-count data from one lock to the next.  Since the
amount of CO2 produced is directly proportional to the amount of
alcohol produced, you should be able to compute a calibration factor
for each fermentation lock by equating your integrated "glubs" to the
percent alcohol in your brew, i.e.

     Alcohol = (Calib. Factor) * (Integrated bubbles)

As you said, temperature has an effect:  a given amount of CO2 will
give rise to a larger bubble if it is at a warmer temperature.  (It's
roughly a direct relationship, Vol CO2 = X * Alcohol * Temp, where X
is some constant).

Now that I've added my 2 cent's worth, I must admit I can't imagine
what I'd use this for.  I guess if you had collected the data from
several brewings of the same beer, same yeast, etc., you'd know
earlier if something was going wrong during fermentation, and then
you'd have more time to worry!  ;-)

*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
|   Tom Kaltenbach -- Chemistry Department - University of Iowa   |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| Internet: blajvm at primed.weeg.uiowa.edu  Bitnet: blajvmpd at uiamvs |
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*


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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 16:21 EST
From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: RE:  Analytical Technique for Measuring Attenuation

Pete Soper wrote an interesting note, counting fermentation lock "glubs" to 
gauge attenuation of his worts.  From time to time, I had similar thoughts 
about measuring CO2 production to monitor the attenaution of the fermentation.

My "Gedank experiment" went a step further.  I reasoned that since every
molecule of CO2 represents one molecule of alcohol produced, we could
conceptually count the number of CO2 molecules to determine alcohol content
of the beer.  The volume of each "glub" can be measured by measuring the
change in water level on each side of the airlock as the bubble passed.
From school, we know PV=nRT, so we can calculate n, the number of moles of
CO2 produced.  (We all know that carbon dixode is an ideal gas.) 

Using Pete's numbers, and making some outrageous assumptions, I calculate
5.66E24 molecules of ethanol in his beer.  Making some additional 
unreasonable asumptions, Pete's beer contains 9.3 percent alcohol by 
weight.  I'm probably off by around a factor of two, but the order of 
magnitude is okay.

This sounds like a good anayltical technique to me.  Maybe Pete should write 
an article for Zymurgy! 

Mike Fertsch

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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 11:54:45 PST
From: uunet!tc.fluke.COM!gamebird at uunet.UU.NET (Duane Smith)
Subject: Honey & Yeast (2 parts)


	I'm thinking about substituting honey for sugar in a couple
	of batches and would like to know what the appropriate pro-
	portions would be for considerations and if there are any
	do's and dont's about doing this. Any comments would be
	appreciated.

	Regarding yeasts, some recipes I have seen recommend 1-2
	pkgs of (dry) yeast. What are the advantages or possibly
	disadvantages of using 1.5 or 2 pkgs vs 1 pkg of yeast?
	Why would you want to use more than 1 package?

					Thanks,  Duane Smith

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Date: Mon, 03 Dec 90 09:11:02 PST
From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Subject: Chimay yeast again


In response to Bob T's question about the Trappist recipe, it is in
fact in Dave Miller's "Complete Handbook of Home brewing".  Dave Line's
"Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy" also has a recipe, though his
comments about brewing it are a little bizarre in light of my experience.

I agree that Chimay yeast is exceedingly cooperative.  Those Flems
think they can push us around with their booming economy, favorable
exchange rate, multilingualism, and 500-year-old abbeys, but I say
"PHOOEY!"  Any red-blooded naturally larcenous American brewer can
steal all the yeast he needs!  Let those so-called Trappists live a
life of celibacy if they want; I'll take the best of both worlds!

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 90 14:27:20 PST
From: wurtz at cvedc.Prime.COM (Tom Wurtz)
Subject: Re: Wine Bottles

I would add one note to Roger Locniskar's comments about using Champagne
bottles for bottling. Make sure that your capper will actually cap the
bottle firmly. I had a few of those Sparkling Cider bottles hanging
around and decided that I would use them. Unfortunately the extra lip
that protrudes underneath the actual capping lip was too close to
the capping lip to allow the capper to come down far enough over it
to make a proper seal, thus the caps were able to be pulled off using
just ones hands. Just to reiterate, it is always a good idea to waste
a cap or two to make sure that your bottle will have a proper seal
before going ahead and bottling.

On another note. I just finished tasting my second batch since moving
up here to Portland and it's absolutely delicious and it has only been
in the bottle a little more than a week. It was the second batch I've made
using crytal malt as a supplement and the added flavor is a tremendous
leap in quality over my previous brews.

Tom Wurtz

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Date: Mon, 03 Dec 90 17:45:49 PST
From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Subject: copper immersion chiller


Could somebody who knows anything (i.e., more than me) about chemistry
tell me why I shouldn't worry about copper entering my wort from my
copper immersion chiller?  The wort is of course hot, and somewhat
acidic; something in the dim recesses of my brain tells me that copper
is a pretty excitable element in such situations.

By the way: I am happy to have found a use for cold weather: wort
chilling!  I set a 5 gal. carboy (a Persian word, by the way, according
to my dictionary; they don't drink much beer now, huh? :-) on a bench
on my patio, and gee whiz it was all chilled with a fabulous layer of
break material at the bottom by this morning.  I'll see how the Chimay
yeast takes to the cool environment.  It should be up to room
temperature (mid-60's) by tonight, so the yeast should take off by
tomorrow sometime.

By another way: I tried the scrub-pad-in-a-hop-bag trick with
yesterday's batch, and was subjected to chills up and down my spine by
the extreme efficacy of the technique.  Thank you, thank you, thank
you, to whoever invented it.  I'm going to use it to separate my IPA
from it's dry (now soggy) hops sometime when the stuff quits fermenting.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #549, 12/04/90
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