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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  RO Water Treatment/Lagering Temps. ("A. J. deLange")
  Re: Opinion on yeast? (S-23 temp) (Calvin Perilloux)
  Re: Opinion on yeast? (stencil)
  RE: Does dry hopping add flavor? ("David Houseman")


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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:38:47 -0400
From: "A. J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net>
Subject: RO Water Treatment/Lagering Temps.

There are, unfortunately, no simple answers with regard to how to tailor 
water for brewing because there are so many variables. It was the trial 
and error efforts made by the brewers of history in trying to produce 
decent beer from the water that they had available that produced the 
diversity of beer styles we enjoy today.

While it is true that RO units do not remove all ions equally well (for 
example the GE unit I have gets more than 99% of magnesium ions but only 
92% of bicarbonatae) it is generally safe to start with the assumption 
that the water is ion free  unless there is an inordinate amount of some 
ion present in the supply.  Anaheim water will have alkalinity of 
between 100 and 200 ppm as CaCO3 depending on which of its sources it is 
drawing from and/or how it is blending from its sources. At worst you 
could expect the alkalinity of your RO water, therefore, to be 20 ppm as 
CaCO3. While this is not 0 it is a modest level.

Simply add the salts to the water. There is no need to use CO2 (or other 
acid) unless sodium bicarbonate or calcium carbonate (chalk) is being 
added and the situations where you would want or need to do that are few 
and far between. As a general rule of thumb for starting out you could 
try adding 1 tsp calcium chloride (dihydrate - the kind sold at your 
local HBS) and 2 tsp gypsum (also sold at LHBS's) and a half tsp of 
epsom salts (readily available from merchants which if I describe them 
by the usual name given to  their establishments will cause my post to 
be rejected) to 5 gallons of RO water and see how you like the result. 
If the hazes you had been observing were caused by insufficient calcium 
in the past this blend should take care of that. But haze is sometimes 
protein haze so use a protein rest (I know, that's not considered 
necessary any more but I know what happens to me when I skip it at least 
when I use Maris Otter).

If you want recipes for various waters I still have some posted at 
www.wetnewf.org. You can use these as a starting point for more detailed 
treatments. Some of these do call for the use of carbonate and 
bicarbonate and therefore sparging with CO2. Don't undertake that 
elaborate process unless you really want to create the water of e.g. 
Burton. In most cases you can skip the carbonate/bicarbonate and just 
use the other salts.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Lager yeasts like cold. The colder you can operate them the cleaner the 
beer will be but there are limits. I try to get the temp down as fast as 
I can to around 48 but as wort exits my chiller at around 55 and I pitch 
inline obviously the yeast are exposed to the wort for some time at that 
temperature. It's my understanding that megalagerbrewers chill to 42 and 
pitch at that temperature allowing the temperature in the fermenter to 
rise to 48 before they cut the cooling in.

I will note that I have had trouble getting certain strains from a 
certain manufacturer to perform at lower temperatures and have had to 
operate them in the mid 50's.

Once fermentation is complete (i.e. specific gravity doesn't drop 
noticeably over a period of a couple of days) then lagering at as close 
to freezing as you can get the beer is the order of the day.


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Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 06:31:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Opinion on yeast? (S-23 temp)

Josh,

If you're talking about fermenting with S-23 at room temperature 
for a week, you'll end up with a fruity ale-type beer, not a Bock
at all.  It's bad enough to go a full day or so at high temps,
but a week?  I've brewed lighter lagers at varying pitching
temperatures (due to commercial considerations), and using the
same lager yeast the cold-pitched ones are cleaner and superior 
to the ones pitched at 60-62 F.  I haven't done that with S-23
specifically, but my educated guess is that it would act similarly.

I've used S-23 with good results in the 50-55 F range.  
In my experience, it slows down a LOT if you take it much 
under 50 F.  I'd never use it at 70 F, not even pitching 
temperature.  (I pitch lagers in the mid to upper 40's if 
possible, letting the fermenting wort then warm to primary 
fermentation temperature of 50 F or so.)

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA



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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 12:44:11 -0400
From: stencil <etcs.ret at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Opinion on yeast?

On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 02:22:31 -0400, 
in Homebrew Digest #5597 (August 31, 2009)
Josh Knarr wrote:

>
>
>Fermentation temp for lagering - start out at room temp for a week
>then put it in the freezer? Drop the temp to "as low as it will go"?

Try to get to the intended ferment temperature at or even before
pitching time.  
The whole rationale is that lager yeast are bred to function at
lower temperatures and when they operate in warmer environments they
produce ale-like compounds.  Let them play unsupervised for a few
days at warm temps and you will have well-chilled ale.  After a few
weeks of cold lagering they might re-ingest those flavors, but maybe
not.

Recognize that, external controller or no, the freezer still is a
freezer and will try to get its contents down to 0F or below as soon
as the controller applies power to it.  When you get to your target
temp (50F or whatever) the controller will cut power to the freezer
 - but the interior walls still will be at a subzero temperature.
Therefore try to deploy the fermenter as far from the walls as
possible and ensure that the remaining volume of the freezer is well
loaded with water jugs, bacon, and filled kegs as is practical.
Likewise position the sensor probe as far from the walls and as
close to the fermenter as you can.  If you opted for the Johnson
controller that uses a pneumatic bulb and copper tube, beware of
too-frequent flexing of the tube, which will lead to brittling and
cracking.

>since the Palmer book uses the 45F to 55F consistently to lager while
>the Saflager packet has a much higher range on it.
>
The yeast manufacturer's advice takes precedence - unless someone
advises you to treat a specific brand or type, differently.

gds, stencil



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Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:51:14 -0400
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Does dry hopping add flavor?

Jim,

So what does brewing for yourself versus for competition have to do with 
concern for aroma.   Frankly whatever the reason to brew, if it's not going 
to be a good beer then what's the point?  And to me aroma is a key component 
of any beer.   Not that high hop aroma should be present on every beer or 
style but where it's appropriate I want great hop aroma whether it's just 
for me, a guest or to enter in competition.

Dry hopping does affect most aroma, although I do pick up some additional 
hop flavor.  Or it could be just the mixing of senses.   Hop aroma is 
largely contributed by late hop additions in the kettle.   Add hops in the 
range of 20 to 5 minutes to go in the boil.    Isomerizing hops extracts hop 
acids for bittering.   Hop flavor is extracted from hop resins and oils.  So 
yes, you can get achieve good hop flavor without dry hopping.

David Houseman



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