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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Steel Cut Oats? (Randy Tidd)
  bottle cleaning - old tip (Dick Dunn)
  misc. (mage!lou)
  Az Brewpubs (chris)
  Rice (Dave Suurballe)
  Re: cooling wort (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Washing Soda for Cleaning Bottles (Allen Akin)
  Phoenix brewpubs (after the trip) ("Gary Mason - Image ABU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  30-Jan-1991 2135")
  Vierka yeast? (Dan Miles)
  Chaucer's Mead (Dan Miles)


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 91 08:20:27 EST
From: rtidd at ccels3.mitre.org (Randy Tidd)
Subject: Steel Cut Oats?


pms at sfsun.West.Sun.COM (Patrick Stirling) writes:
> Subject: Oatmeal Stout Recipe (Extract)
> 
> Mike Tavis asked for an Oatmeal Stout Recipe. Here's one I used recently,
> ...
> 	1lb Steel Cut Oats
> ...

Where does one obtain Steel Cut Oats? I just flipped through my Jan 22
Home Brewery catalog and didn't find them there. Can I just go down to
the grocery and pick up a pound of cut oats?

Also I have a quick question about cracked grains.  I only plan to have
a small quantity of specialty grains around at any time, and I guess my
choices are to buy it cracked or crack it myself.  How hard is it to
crack the grains myself (using everyday implements; think minimalist
kitchen)?  How well do already-cracked grains keep, say, in the 
freezer?

Looking forward to making the Oatmeal Stout!

Randy Tidd
rtidd at mwunix.mitre.org


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 91 07:23:24 mst
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!att!tarzan!gwt

>Date: Mon, 28 Jan 91 14:40:18 MST
>From: hunter at sunpeaks.Central.Sun.COM (Bill Hunter [Sun Denver FSE])
>Subject: roto-kegs

>i'm soliciting opinions, and this may be one of the 
>FAQ's, but does anyone have or have experience with
>the roto kegs, and roto casks?  

An additional problem concerning roto kegs:

My wife bought me the 2 gal roto keg awhile back and the problem I am
having is that no carbonation is produced if you follow their directions.
The directions say not to fill the roto keg more than 2/3 of the way,
because if filled further when the CO2 is added it will collapse the keg.

The problem is that the large head space in the keg prevents proper
carbonation. One way around this problem is to fill the keg to the top 
to eliminate the head space, but you must remember to drink 1/3 of the
beer the first time you open the keg and then add the CO2.

The CO2 connection on top of the 2 Gal roto keg has two metal "rod" type
things sticking up which are used to connect the little CO2 "seltzer" type
canister. This CO2 canister doesn't put out enough pressure to
artifically carbonate the keg. Does anyone know if there is an adapter
for the larger CO2 tanks for this type of connection?

One additional question:

Does anyone know where lids with pressure relief valves for Firestone
kegs can be purchased?

					Geoff Woods
					att!tarzan!gwt (uucp)
					gwt at tarzan.att.com (internet)


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Date: 30 Jan 91 00:55:23 MST (Wed)
From: ico.isc.com!rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: bottle cleaning - old tip

For the sake of folks just getting going, one standard trick for
un-labeling commercial beer bottles, which works well with almost
all non-foil labels:  Soak in warm water with ammonia.  The ammonia
is remarkably effective on most "permanent" glues that don't yield
to straight detergent-water.  Try it and let the bottles soak for a
while.  Most labels just float to the surface.

Second-order tips:
	Rinse thoroughly afterward.  The ammonia will evaporate, but
		you don't want glue residue on the insides of the bottles.
	Use cheap "clear" ammonia--you don't want sudsy 'cause it's harder
		to rinse off, and the expensive stuff (like Parsons) has
		crappy cheap perfume that's really hard to get rid of.
	If the surface of the label is really shiny, score it a few times
		1-2 cm apart (to let the soak penetrate under the surface)
		and soak longer.  Use time instead of elbow grease.
  ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at raven.eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 91 09:04:16 MST
From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: misc.

In HBD #573 Jim Culbert writes:

>My last recipe used 5lbs of malt extract. This left me with approx. 1/2 a
>can of malt. I sealed the top with plastic wrap and an elastic band
>and put it in the fridge. Is there any reason I shouldn't use this in my
>next batch of beer?

I done this several times with no problems.  Just treat it like other food and
don't leave it in there forever.  If anything does grow in it, boiling your
wort should take care of it.  BTW, a plastic coffe can lid will fit well on
most 1.5 kg cans of extract.

++++++++++++++++++

And Jeff Rickle writes:

>1. For those of you who believe that aging an ale for a few extra
>   weeks can soften harsh/off flavors, what temperature do you 
>   recommend?  Is room temperature (60-70 degrees) better than 
>   refrigerator temperature?

Yes.

>2. A friend of mine cools his wort by adding (previously 
>   sterilized) ice.  This is convenient for me since I use 
>   a partial mash with about 3 gal of wort, so I have to 
>   top up with a couple gallons of water anyway.  I tried 
>   his method by a adding 1 gal of ice and 1 gal of 
>   refrigerated water to my 3 gal of wort, and I got down 
>   to pitching temperature in about 20 min.  This seems so 
>   convenient that there must be something wrong with it.
>   Is there any reason to avoid this method?

The only problem with this is that freezers frequently harbor lots of bacteria
which can contaminate your ice.  Just be sure you have your ice protected from
the air in your freezer.

Louis Clark
reply to: mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 91 13:06:59 CST
From: medcmt!chris at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Az Brewpubs

One brewpub you might try is the Bandersnatch Brew Pub in Tempe. 
They have an excellent milk stout and India pale ale.  They also
sell it by the bottle in several stores in the Pheonix area.  

It's easy to find.  It's located directly off the ASU campus,
directly across from Sun Devil stadium, which can be seen from all
over town.  

It's also the home of the Beer-in-the-Face Club...
- -- 
                    # 
Chris Hudson        #  Don't try to have the last word,  
b17a!medch!chris    #                                  you might get it.   
X1375  IW17A5       #
Intergraph          #                     -Lazarus Long
                    #


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 91 10:29:37 PST
From: hsfmsh.UUCP!suurb at cgl.ucsf.EDU (Dave Suurballe)
Subject: Rice

I have a friend who doesn't like my beers because they are 'too heavy',
even the light ales that start at 1.040.  He drinks Bud Light.

Just for fun, I thought I'd try to brew something like Bud, so I followed
George Fix's advice in the so-called 'all-grain issue' of Zymurgy.  I used
one-third rice and two-thirds malted barley and the starting gravity was
1.044.  The fermentation was sluggish and after 10 days the gravity had
dropped to only 1.030.  My usual experience with this yeast (Sierra Nevada)
is a complete fermentation in that time.

This reminded me of a barley wine I made a few years ago.  I used a lot of
rice in that one, too, because I wanted to make a very light-colored
barley wine.  That fermentation never completed, and I assumed at the time
that I had reached the limit of the yeast.

Now I wonder if it's the rice.  Those are my only experiences with rice, and
both have been odd.  In both cases, I cooked the rice separately (brought it
from room temperature to a boil in an hour; it looked gelatinized) and
then let it cool to 154 and added it to the main mash which was already at
154.  I don't have iodine; I just mashed it for the usual hour.  I had no
problems with the sparge or boil or chilling.

Has anywone else used rice successfully or unsuccessfully?

Does anyone know if cooking rice produces sugars which aren't fermented by
certain yeasts?  George didn't say what yeast to use, but I assume he meant
a lager yeast, and I used Sierra Nevada in both cases. I don't think that's
a lager yeast, although at my temperatures (65-70) it appears to be a
bottom fermenter.

Suurballe

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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 91 13:43:54 mst
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: cooling wort


Jeff Rickel writes:
>2. A friend of mine cools his wort by adding (previously 
>   sterilized) ice.  This is convenient for me since I use 
>   a partial mash with about 3 gal of wort, so I have to 
>   top up with a couple gallons of water anyway.  I tried 
>   his method by a adding 1 gal of ice and 1 gal of 
>   refrigerated water to my 3 gal of wort, and I got down 
>   to pitching temperature in about 20 min.  This seems so 
>   convenient that there must be something wrong with it.
>   Is there any reason to avoid this method?

You have to be careful when you say "sterilized."  I think what
you mean is sanitized, or just simply boiled.  In any case, I
do a similar thing.  I chill a couple of gallons of boiled tapwater
in the fridge and about 8 hours before starting the boil, I stick
one in the freezer.  It crusts over with ice, but is mostly still
liquid.  I dump this water right into the kettle after I'm done
boiling and get a much better cold break than I used to (simply
covering the pot and sticking it into the fridge till I've sanitized
the carboy and put 2-3 gal of cold (pre-boiled) water in it).
I end up getting less trub in the primary and leaving more in the
kettle.  My intention is to eventually get an immersion chiller.
Then I can do full boils, get better hop extraction, and the only
thing I would have to do in advance is start my yeast.

Al.


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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 91 13:11:03 PST
From: Allen Akin <allen at atd.dec.com>
Subject: Washing Soda for Cleaning Bottles

Algis Korzonas mentioned problems with a residue apparently caused by
washing soda used to clean bottles in a dishwasher.  I also had a long
email discussion with Don Wegeng on the same subject.

I certainly haven't detected any film or residue.  Nor have my beers
exhibited any head-retention problems or soapy flavors.  Perhaps this
is because I used the soda only in the first phase of my dishwasher's
extensive pot-scrubber cycle.  (According to the manual, the whole
cycle consists of a wash/rinse phase, two rinse phases, another wash
phase, and two more rinse phases.)

However, if you're the least concerned about using washing soda, then
don't sweat it.  Ordinary dishwashing detergent seems to work
perfectly.  I'm certainly happy with the results, and won't go back to
cleaning and sanitizing bottles by hand.

Allen

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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 91 20:14:03 PST
From: "Gary Mason - Image ABU - 603-884[DTN264]1503 30-Jan-1991 2135" <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Phoenix brewpubs (after the trip)

Some interesting results.  To the individual that mailed me that there are
none - please look again.  8')

To the person who mentioned Jabberwocky - I think you may mean Bandersnatch
(which is, after all, literarily related).  It is on 5th, about a block off 
of Mill, right at the University.  They have three regular brews (IPA, Premium
Ale, and Milk Stout), and a floater (a fair brown ale now).  They were the
first brewpub in Arizona (ca. 1988).  I had samplers, and decided upon the 
IPA (though in retrospect, I think the Premium was better).  The brown and
stout were OK (though I still prefer SS Oatmeal). One interesting note - the 
Pointe at Tapatio is supposedly bringing them in as their house brand (that 
news from the resort folks, not the brewer).  Food (lunch) was quite OK.

There are at least three others in the area. One is at Camelback, and one is at
Frontier Town - I don't know where the third is. Two of them are named (oh for 
such creativity) Hops, and Barley.  The other is "something Al's" or maybe the 
reverse, I think - it's at F.T.  The ownership of Bandersnatch, and either Hops
or Barley (or both) are somehow intertwined).

Not bad for a few minutes investigation and one lunch, eh?

Cheers...Gary

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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 91 21:56:02 -0800
From: miles at cs.washington.edu (Dan Miles)
Subject: Vierka yeast?


<   Tonight I prepared a starter using the Vierka mead yeast.  At
<   least it says yeast on the package.  This stuff looks like no dried
<   yeast I have ever seen before.  It looks more like the non-pelletized
<   form of irish moss, or maybe herbal tea leaves, or maybe sawdust. 
<   Lots of oddly shaped and strangely colored bits.  It does not taste
<   like much of anything and I'm feeling no strange side-effects yet :-).

I posted a very similar message to the HBD sometime around 6/30/90.  I
didn't get any replies, so I wonder how widely used Vierka mead yeast
is.  I don't have anything encouraging to say about it.  I pitched it
despite its dubious look (after rehydrating) and after four days of no
activity, I threw in a couple of packets of Red Star.  Fermentation
started about 8 hours later.

The best thing I can say about Vierka mead yeast is it didn't ruin the
mead.  It was a traditional mead, no herbs, spice, or hops, and the
only thing I don't like about it is a slight yeasty taste.  Since it
was my first mead, I can't be sure where the yeast taste came from,
but I have my suspicions.
                            Dan Miles





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Date: Wed, 30 Jan 91 22:23:01 -0800
From: miles at cs.washington.edu (Dan Miles)
Subject: Chaucer's Mead

I just opened a bottle of Chaucer's Mead, produced by the Bargetto
Winery of Soquel, CA.  This is a wonderful drink.  It is self
described as a medium sweet wine and is indeed quite sweet.  My two
batches of mead and the handful of other homebrewed meads I've tried
have been rather dry, which is just fine.  But somehow, this mead
(Chaucer's) conjures up the images of gods and kings imbibing strong,
intoxicating drinks out of mazers.  It is 11% alcohol by volume, not
incredibly strong by wine standards, and has a very strong honey
bouquet.  It feels rather thick on the tougue and has just a slight
medicinal aftertaste, much subtler than my homebrewed meads.  This is
the mead I'll shoot for on my next try.

By the way, I was surprised to see it on the shelf because I had read
there weren't any commercial examples of mead in the US.  Not true any
more.  Are there any other commercial meads out there?  For those of
you in the Seattle area, I bought this mead for $9 in a little wine
shop on 45th Ave N.  The name escapes me, but it was 1/2 block west of
Food Giant.
				Dan Miles


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #574, 01/31/91
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