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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  relaxation (Joe Uknalis)
  roto-kegs (Ken Schriner)
  jane you ignorant....... (Jim Culbert )
  Aging ale, cooling wort (Jeff Rickel)
  WANTED: recipes 4 Whitbread/Spaaten (STAFINIAK)
  labels (Geoffrey Sherwood)
  Beer Bottles (Jake Turin)
  Homebrew Digest #572 (January 29, 1991) (Peter Karp)
  Bay Area Must-Sees (Alex_M._Stein.osbu_south)
  Homebrew Competition (Jack Webb)
  Re: lager brewing questions (Ed Falk)
  lager questions entertained (florianb)
  Alexanders extract (Duane Smith)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #572 (January 29, 1991) (Randy Tidd)
  Brewshops in Raleigh, NC area (gt4393c)
  Fermenting in donut buckets, and baking bottles (Tom Fitzgerald)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date:         Tue, 29 Jan 91 07:46:46 EST
From: Joe Uknalis <UKNALIS at VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      relaxation


I'd like to post a discovery that may add to the relaxation and lack of
worrying to you folks out there.
In the 40+ batches I've made a few times now & then the bubbling never really
seems to take off...  IN this last batch I made I was at home while it went
through it's peak. The thing bubbled like it was attached to a fishtank airpump
for 5 hours then settled down to the slow glurg phase.  Had I not been home I
would have missed it & possibly worried.

By the way, are there any homebrew suppliers in the Atlanta area?

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Date:         Tue, 29 Jan 91 07:45:39 CST
From: Ken Schriner <KS06054 at UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU>
Subject:      roto-kegs

I have used the roto-kegs.  I thought they were terrible.  I could never
get them pressurized.  The tap leaked.  I finally had to take the top off
and let the beer drain out of the keg.  Of course it was flat and tasted
terrible this way.  I tried several times to make this work.

My suggestion:  Forget roto-kegs and move on directly to stainless steel
soda syrup kegs.  They work well.  The cost is more than roto-kegs, but
they work so much better.

Ken Schriner (501) 575-2905            BITNET : ks06054 at uafsysb
U of A, Computing Services           Internet : ks06054 at uafsysb.uark.edu

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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 91 09:51:33+050
From: Jim Culbert <culbert at m43>
Subject: jane you ignorant.......


Oops. 
In HBD#572 I posted a request for advice on lagers. I refered to smelling
"sulpher-dioxide". Didn't mean to confuse anybody. Just flaunting my 
ignorance of high school chemistry. What I think I meant was hydrogen
sulphide. The net effect is the important thing. The stuff smelled like eggs!
Also one more question.
My last recipe used 5lbs of malt extract. This left me with approx. 1/2 a
can of malt. I sealed the top with plastic wrap and an elastic band
and put it in the fridge. Is there any reason I shouldn't use this in my
next batch of beer? There's nothing growing on it. I hate to waste the 
stuff but then again I'd hate to ruin a whole batch of brew just to save
a few bucks.

jim

 - -----------------------

Jim Culbert
Intelligent Engineering Systems Lab
MIT
Cambridge, Ma. 02139

jaculber at athena.mit.edu
or
culbert at iesl.mit.edu
- ------------------------------

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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 91 09:08:38 CST
From: rickel at cs.utexas.edu (Jeff Rickel)
Subject: Aging ale, cooling wort

Two questions:
1. For those of you who believe that aging an ale for a few extra
   weeks can soften harsh/off flavors, what temperature do you 
   recommend?  Is room temperature (60-70 degrees) better than 
   refrigerator temperature?
2. A friend of mine cools his wort by adding (previously 
   sterilized) ice.  This is convenient for me since I use 
   a partial mash with about 3 gal of wort, so I have to 
   top up with a couple gallons of water anyway.  I tried 
   his method by a adding 1 gal of ice and 1 gal of 
   refrigerated water to my 3 gal of wort, and I got down 
   to pitching temperature in about 20 min.  This seems so 
   convenient that there must be something wrong with it.
   Is there any reason to avoid this method?

Thanks, 
Jeff Rickel

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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 91 10:28 EST
From: STAFINIAK at hermes.psycha.upenn.edu
Subject: WANTED: recipes 4 Whitbread/Spaaten


HELP!!! I've been feeling rather tense lately and feel the need to relax with a 
Whitbread and/or Spaaten HB equivalent.  Any idears??
_______________________________________________________________________________

					stafiniak at hermes.psycha.upenn.edu


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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 91 09:30:00 PST
From: sherwood at adobe.com (Geoffrey Sherwood)
Subject: labels

What I found worked the best on bottles was Chore GIRLS (not boys).  The
Chore Boys have fairly fine copper mesh.  The Chore Girls have a large
mesh with good solid edges.  After soaking for an hour, it took no more than
15 seconds to have a completely clean bottle.

On a releated note, now that I keg I have about 10 cases of clean longnecks
gathering dust.  If anybody in the SF Bay area wants them let me know.
	geoff sherwood
	sherwood at adobe.com

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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 91 11:18:18 MST
From: turin at jupiter.nmt.edu (Jake Turin)
Subject: Beer Bottles

I've been seeing people asking about finding suitable bottles for
homebrew the last few issues.  I've found a source that may be
appropriate for some of you, and also constitutes a good deed. 

Socorro NM is a relatively small town (pop. 9000) and we've been a
little slow to jump on the recycling bandwagon, but a group of
volunteers now collects recyclables (newspaper, Al, cardboard, plastic
and _GLASS_) once a month at a central location.  Entirely staffed by
volunteers.  So, once I month I put in 2 hours, always sign up for
glass detail, work out a month's worth of aggression by smashing
bottles, and usually score at least a dozen U.S. champagne and cider
bottles for my homebrew.

Keep on brewin'!


 - Jake Turin                                           New Mexico Tech
  turin at jupiter.nmt.edu                                Socorro, NM

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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 91 14:54:17 EST
From: Peter Karp <karp at cs.columbia.edu>
Subject: Homebrew Digest #572 (January 29, 1991)



I tried Pete's WIcked Ale this summer in Boulder but I have not seen it 
back in NYCC or Massachusetts .   Is it available out this wa? 
I finally found a place that sells Mendocino Brewing Co. Ales. 
Great stuff also.

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Date: 	Tue, 29 Jan 1991 12:45:48 PST
From: Alex_M._Stein.osbu_south at xerox.com
Subject: Bay Area Must-Sees

After years of bowing three times each morning in the general direction of the
Anchor Brewery, I'm finally going to make a pilgrammage, er, I mean trip up to
the Bay Area.

Aside from Anchor, I'm looking for other essential beer-related spots  to
visit.  Any ideas, please?

Alex Stein
astein.osbu_south at xerox.com

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Date:         29 Jan 91 16:03:58 EST
From: Jack Webb <JACK.L.WEBB at OFFICE.WANG.COM>
Subject:      Homebrew Competition


Lee Menegoni here at Wang asked me to post this competition info (I send Lee
and others copies of the HBD).  Any questions, call the numbers listed or
drop me a line and I'll forward the questions to Lee.

jack.l.webb%office.wang.com
Jack Webb
Wang Labs, Lowell MA
- ---------------------------

    9th Annual Homebeer Competition of New England
    February 23 & 24, 1991
    Sponsored by Crosby & Baker and White's of Westport Hampton Inn
    ( not to be confused with the the AHA conference June 19 to 22 )

Deadline for Entry February 20, 1991
$5 entry fee make check payable to: Crosby and Baker.
Entry is three 12 or 16 oz bottles.
Registration form must be attached with each bottle.
All winners will be notified and judges comments will be returned to all
entries.

The HWBTA will give one free National Competition entry for each 15 Regional
Competition entries received.  Questions call 508-636-5154

Send entries via UPS to:

    Crosby and Baker
    999 Main Road
    Westport MA  02790

or leave at a drop off point.

Southern NH drop off point:

    Jaspers Homebrew Supply
    116 Page Road
    Litchfield NH  03051
    603-881-3052

AHA/HBWTA experience points for judges will be awarded.  If you are interested
in judging the competition contact:

    Leslie Reilly
    999 Main Road
    Westport MA  02790
    508-636-5154

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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 91 15:51:47 PST
From: falk at Eng.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Subject: Re: lager brewing questions

> 1) Very long lag time for fermentation to complete (~10+ days). I know from
> miller that the particular yeast I used is slow to start and, no, I did not
> make a starter culture but, geeze this seemed awful long.

Sounds about right to me.  We had a pilzner that took *months* to ferment
out, but turned out pretty good in the end.

> 
> At any rate I'd appreciate it if some of you more experienced lagerers out
> there would comment.

Yes, have "Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew" tatooed on the back of
your wrist where you can consult it whenever you want.

All of your "problems" sound familiar to me, but we've never made a
lager we didn't like.  (OK, we've only done two lagers, but they were
both great.)


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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 91 12:53:13 PST
From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com
Subject: lager questions entertained

In #572, Jim Culbert asks some questions about a stinking lager brew:

>1) Very long lag time for fermentation to complete (~10+ days). I know from
>miller that the particular yeast I used is slow to start and, no, I did not
>make a starter culture but, geeze this seemed awful long.

You use "lag time" and "complete" in describing the same apparent effect.
Lag time referrs to the time between pitching the yeast and the time at
which the yeast are in an obvious state of cell division (fermentation).
Long lag time can result from several causes including incorrect temperature,
insufficient yeast population in the pitched solution, temperature
shock, lack of oxygen, and poor yeast culture.  I have experienced lag
with the Wyeast cultures.  In these instances, I have paid close attention
to the factors I mentioned above and got yeast lag in spite of my best
efforts.  I can only conclude that since my conditions were right,
the yeast cultures were sick.  I suggest that you review your notes to
see whether any of the above factors could have affected the yeast.       
Also, you should always figure out how much yeast is required for the
recipe and use a starter to obtain that amount.  Finally, 10 days is
not unreasonable for the time to complete fermentation in a lager.  You
are doing well.

>2) When the fermentation did begin the fermenter was giving off a very
>strong odor. It was kinda "tangy" (but not like vinegar though).
>
>3) I racked to the secondary after about 14 days and the odor was so strong
>that I was convinved that I had produced something other than beer and would
>have to toss the lot. But I was going to see this through!
>
>4) I took the fermentation lock off the top last night (~1 month in the
>secondary) and wiffed the contents. Yikes, sulpher-dioxide. Also the

Occasionally, I have also noted a sulphury smell arising out of the
brews (lagers) I made using Wyeast cultures.  Again, this odor can
result from a variety of factors, including the use of Munich malt.
There's no guarantee that Wyeast is pure.  About a year ago, John
Polstra (Seattle) and I (Bend, Oregon) experienced batches with
infections simultaneously--both batches being fermented with Wyeast
Pilsner yeast.  In your case, I would suspect an infection of wild
yeast.  You could have nearly eliminated the smell by dumping in
a cup of corn sugar into the secondary (carboy) and letting it
sit in the basement for a month, then bottling.  The escaping CO2
from the carboy "scrubs" the sulphur (dioxide) smell from the brew.
I have used this technique successfully.  But you should continue
to work at figuring out what is the cause of the smell, more than
figuring out what to do about it once it happens.

Finally a word of encouragement.  When I began brewing lagers about
three years ago, I was shocked at how difficult it is to get a lager
just right.  As time passed, I began to refine my techniques and
pay attention to such things as precise temperature control, proper
use of starters, protein rest in the mash, proper lautering, proper
sparging temperature, and so on.  Now, a lot of it has become
second nature.  I'd like to encourage you to not give up, but
persevere!  Keep making lager and keep reading the good books.
Your efforts will pay off eventually!

Florian


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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 91 11:52:02 PST
From: hplabs!ardent!uunet!tc.fluke.COM!gamebird (Duane Smith)
Subject: Alexanders extract


	In HB #572 Mark Zaleski asks about quality problems with
	Alexanders extract.

	I have 4 batches of Alexanders "under my belt" now and all
	have been very successful. The last batch 1 month old. 

	What you described sounds unusual to me. Have never seen that
	before. I would definately send a note to the manufacturer
	for their opinion or a possible replacement.

					Duane Smith


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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 91 20:13:17 EST
From: rtidd at ccels3.mitre.org (Randy Tidd)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #572 (January 29, 1991)

eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West x4449) writes:
> 
> rtidd at mwunix.mitre.org writes:
> 
> >The only thing is that the Lite bottles aren't quite the right shape/
> >size, 
> 
> Is this a style consideration? or are there specific hazards to
> wrong-shaped bottles?

Sorry I should have been more specific. The capper I use is a bench capper
(two levers you push down and out over the bottle to mash the cap on). 
The bottles I use must have a lip about 1/2" below the top of the bottle
or my capper has nothing to grab onto while i'm pushing down.  Most import
bottles don't have this lip, and domestic long-necks do.  The Lite bottles
I got have the "lip", but it's slightly rounded and my capper has a
tendency to slip off while i'm pushing down.

If i'm careful when capping, i.e. maintain an even pressure on both levers
and keep a slight inward pressure to keep the cap seated right, there isn't
a problem with the Lite bottles.  Incidentally, the Lite bottles also have
foil labels with glue that doesn't seem to dissolve in the hot bleach
solution I use on the rest of the bottles.  Argh! What a hassle. When am
I gonna start kegging? :-)

Randy Tidd
rtidd at mwunix.mitre.org


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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 91 21:43:00 EST
From: gt4393c at prism.gatech.edu
Subject: Brewshops in Raleigh, NC area

Hey There,

	After receiving several messages, it seems that there indeed
are homebrew shops in the Raleigh, NC area.   By far the most frequently
suggested / recommended was:


	American Brewmaster
	2940-6 Trawick Road
	Raleigh, NC  27604

	(919) 850-0095

Thanks again to all those who responded.

Take it easy,
 -Ivan


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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 91 18:24:02 EST
From: fitz at wang.com (Tom Fitzgerald)
Subject: Fermenting in donut buckets, and baking bottles

> I happened to be eating donuts at Krispy Kreame tonight and they were
> selling the buckets they get the donut filling in.

Dunkin Donuts also sells the buckets they get filling in, from anywhere
between free to $2 each.  I've bought a bunch of them to use for holding
dilute bleach with all the other hardware that needs to be sanitized, or to
hold water that's been boiled and cooled, or racked beer while it's being
bottled.  I wouldn't use one for a fermenter, since even after dozens of
uses mine still smell slightly like donut filling, and they've got a rough
textured inside wall, which makes it seem like cleaning wouldn't be 100%
effective.  The buckets are presumably food grade, at least to the extent
that Dunkin Donuts donut filling can be considered "food", so using one as
a fermenter might be worth a try.

> Now I may be a simpleton (may?), but what's the deal with going through all
> the trouble of BAKING your bottles.  Is there an assumption that there are
> ANY little nasties that can withstand more than 3 parts per million of common
> household bleach for more than a few minutes?  Let's put that one to rest.

I don't use bleach on bottles, I just clean them and bake them.  Baking is
no harder than soaking them in bleach, it's a lot less messy, and it's just
as unlikely that there are any nasties that can survive 60 minutes at 300
degrees.  I've got a septic tank, and I don't like the idea of pouring
several cups of bleach down the drain; it does bad things to the flora that
live in the septic tank and break down the waste.

- ---
Tom Fitzgerald   Wang Labs        fitz at wang.com
1-508-967-5278   Lowell MA, USA   ...!uunet!wang!fitz

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #573, 01/30/91
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