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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  re Brewing Science Classes ("David Quain")
  Hop Flavor and Aroma in High Gravity Beers (sjohnson3)
  RE: imperial IPA ibu (Ric Cunningham)
  RE: IIPA IBUs ("Mike Patient")
  Subject: re: Brewing Science Classes ("\\-s@roadrunner.com")
  imperial IPA (Nick Trubov)


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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 09:33:47 +0100
From: "David Quain" <david.quain at red-ts.com>
Subject: re Brewing Science Classes

Building on the conversation in HBD #5736/5739 don't forget the
International Centre for Brewing and Distilling at Heriot-Watt
University, Edinburgh.  The MSc is particularly popular either on campus
or by distance learning - see www.icbd.hw.ac.uk/courses.php

Cheers

David 

david.quain at red-ts.com
www.red-ts.com 




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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 12:41:19 +0000 (UTC)
From: sjohnson3 at comcast.net
Subject: Hop Flavor and Aroma in High Gravity Beers

Paul Hethmon asks about some ways to improve his aroma and flavor 
profile on high gravity beers: 

I did some initial experimenting of my own this summer with my own 
formulation of a clone of Oskar Blues 
Brewery's "Gubna" beer. It is a very malty high gravity brew with lots 
of hop flavor without that grassiness 
that I have found in previous attempts to throw a lot of hops into the 
boil to get up into that 100+ range of 
projected IBU's. In talking with some of our club members here in 
Nashville, several recommended that I 
use most of my hops at the very end of the boil. The Oskar Blues website 
indicated that this particular beer 
uses Summit hops, one of the newer high alpha varieties that are 
becoming available to homebrewers these 
days. So I did just that, and ended up adding 1 ounce of Citra hops (AA 
of 11%) at the beginning of my 10 gal batch boil because I needed 
some whole hops to work in my kettle to help with the run-off and the 
Summit hops were pellets. I ended up 
adding 8 oz. of Summit pellet hops (AA of 16%) at the 10 min. mark 
before shutting off the burner. Now, granted, this ends 
up being a very expensive proposition, but the Pro-Mash calculation on 
the IBU's gave me 78 IBU's on an OG of 1.078. 
I ended up serving the two kegs at the Music City Brewers' Festival, and 
even had some cans of Gubna to let 
people do a side by side tasting, and it was pretty close in capturing 
that beer's profile. Several people actually liked 
mine better - probably because it was a lot more fresh! It was very 
malty (it uses some rye and 
dark Munich in the mash, I believe) and actually very hoppy, but not a 
lot of harsh bitterness. Just what I hoped for. 
But as I said, this costs a lot in terms of the amount of hops you have 
to use, but it is worth trying at least once 
to see the difference this makes with some of these high alpha hops. 

I would expect that the little amount of Fuggle and Cascade hops you are 
adding at the end will be "underwhelming" and "overwhelmed" by 
the more intense hop bitterness from your Zeus hops at the beginning of 
the boil. 

Hey, Paul, I see that you are planning to come to our competition in a 
few weeks. We're looking forward to seeing you 
then! We can talk more at the Beer Dinner. Wish I still had some of that 
Gubna clone to share with you. 

Steve Johnson 
Music City Brewers 
Nashville, TN 


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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 11:27:14 -0400
From: Ric Cunningham <wilypig at gmail.com>
Subject: RE: imperial IPA ibu

There is a threshold limit to what the human body can detect for IBU's.
 If you really want to get the most bang for your buck with hopping use enough
hops for 1/4 of your bittering at 60 to 90 minutes then add 1/2 of the
remainder
during the final 20 minutes. This will give you the best results for
flavor. Then
add the last 1/4 at flameout. Good luck.


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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 11:47:04 -0400
From: "Mike Patient" <mpatient at rta.biz>
Subject: RE: IIPA IBUs

Paul mentioned he got 196 IBUs from his IIPA in previous attempts.  How is
this being measured?
My understanding of IBUs was that above 100 it is very hard to tell the
actual bitterness.  Most human palates can't differentiate past that, and
most algorithms break down past that.  Was this really measured, or was it
just an overkill of hops?  (I bet it tasted gooooood though)

As for the hop aroma, I don't think the 20g at 5 and flameout is enough.  I
do that with my APA and if I don't dry hop, it doesn't have much of a hop
aroma.  I would cancel the last flameout addition and double it in the
secondary as dry hop, however, if you don't want to dry hop, how about
making a hop tea and adding that after fermentation?  It won't make a mess,
and you'll get some aroma and possibly flavor out of them.  I think 114 is
an attainable goal.

Mike



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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:20:35 -0400
From: "\\-s at roadrunner.com" <"\\-s"@roadrunner.com>
Subject: Subject: re: Brewing Science Classes



>   In HBD #5736 Jeff Walls asked about brewing classes other than Seibel and
> UC Davis
>
>
>
>

The problem is that any short courses are not likely to be sufficiently technical
and any good technical programs are multi-year degree programs.

Heriot-Watt offers an MSc degree in brewing and distilling by distance learning
from their International Centre for Brewing and Distilling.
http://www.postgraduate.hw.ac.uk/courses/view/119

Doemans in Germany has a similar program, but I am not aware of distance learning.

Perhaps you could start by picking up a few good undergrad courses in the basics,
physical chemistry, lab methods, microbiology, biochem.

 -S




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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:36:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nick Trubov <ntrubov at swbell.net>
Subject: imperial IPA

Here is what I do. I bought a little jar of hop pellets (Saaz) that I keep in 
the freezer and I drop a couple of pellets into any glass of beer I'm drinking 
(and I drink almost exclusively IPA's). It sure does taste good. I even like to 
chew on the little buggers.

NT

 ==========================
Nick Trubov
and all the other Trubovs
Lorree, Corbin and Alex
==========================


> So I'm getting ready to brew an Imperial IPA this  coming weekend.
> I did one a year ago with an OG of 82 and 196 IBU based on  some
> recommendations that I couldn't go high enough. In the end I  don't
> think I went too high, but it was mostly bitterness and not  much
> aroma or distinctive hop flavor. I did EKG at 5 minutes left in the  boil
> and it wasn't enough.
> 
> So, for this one, I'm shooting right now  for an OG of 80 and IBU of
> 114. Main bitterness is planned from from whole  leaf Zeus hops. I've
> got a bit of Fuggle, then finishing with Cascade. My  thought is to put
> 20 g of Cascade at 5 minutes out and another 20 g at flame  out.
> 
> Without getting into dry hopping or a hop back, what do you  think?


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