HOMEBREW Digest #5740 Thu 23 September 2010

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  re Brewing Science Classes ("David Quain")
  Hop Flavor and Aroma in High Gravity Beers (sjohnson3)
  RE: imperial IPA ibu (Ric Cunningham)
  RE: IIPA IBUs ("Mike Patient")
  Subject: re: Brewing Science Classes ("\\-s@roadrunner.com")
  imperial IPA (Nick Trubov)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 09:33:47 +0100 From: "David Quain" <david.quain at red-ts.com> Subject: re Brewing Science Classes Building on the conversation in HBD #5736/5739 don't forget the International Centre for Brewing and Distilling at Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh. The MSc is particularly popular either on campus or by distance learning - see www.icbd.hw.ac.uk/courses.php Cheers David david.quain at red-ts.com www.red-ts.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 12:41:19 +0000 (UTC) From: sjohnson3 at comcast.net Subject: Hop Flavor and Aroma in High Gravity Beers Paul Hethmon asks about some ways to improve his aroma and flavor profile on high gravity beers: I did some initial experimenting of my own this summer with my own formulation of a clone of Oskar Blues Brewery's "Gubna" beer. It is a very malty high gravity brew with lots of hop flavor without that grassiness that I have found in previous attempts to throw a lot of hops into the boil to get up into that 100+ range of projected IBU's. In talking with some of our club members here in Nashville, several recommended that I use most of my hops at the very end of the boil. The Oskar Blues website indicated that this particular beer uses Summit hops, one of the newer high alpha varieties that are becoming available to homebrewers these days. So I did just that, and ended up adding 1 ounce of Citra hops (AA of 11%) at the beginning of my 10 gal batch boil because I needed some whole hops to work in my kettle to help with the run-off and the Summit hops were pellets. I ended up adding 8 oz. of Summit pellet hops (AA of 16%) at the 10 min. mark before shutting off the burner. Now, granted, this ends up being a very expensive proposition, but the Pro-Mash calculation on the IBU's gave me 78 IBU's on an OG of 1.078. I ended up serving the two kegs at the Music City Brewers' Festival, and even had some cans of Gubna to let people do a side by side tasting, and it was pretty close in capturing that beer's profile. Several people actually liked mine better - probably because it was a lot more fresh! It was very malty (it uses some rye and dark Munich in the mash, I believe) and actually very hoppy, but not a lot of harsh bitterness. Just what I hoped for. But as I said, this costs a lot in terms of the amount of hops you have to use, but it is worth trying at least once to see the difference this makes with some of these high alpha hops. I would expect that the little amount of Fuggle and Cascade hops you are adding at the end will be "underwhelming" and "overwhelmed" by the more intense hop bitterness from your Zeus hops at the beginning of the boil. Hey, Paul, I see that you are planning to come to our competition in a few weeks. We're looking forward to seeing you then! We can talk more at the Beer Dinner. Wish I still had some of that Gubna clone to share with you. Steve Johnson Music City Brewers Nashville, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 11:27:14 -0400 From: Ric Cunningham <wilypig at gmail.com> Subject: RE: imperial IPA ibu There is a threshold limit to what the human body can detect for IBU's. If you really want to get the most bang for your buck with hopping use enough hops for 1/4 of your bittering at 60 to 90 minutes then add 1/2 of the remainder during the final 20 minutes. This will give you the best results for flavor. Then add the last 1/4 at flameout. Good luck. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 11:47:04 -0400 From: "Mike Patient" <mpatient at rta.biz> Subject: RE: IIPA IBUs Paul mentioned he got 196 IBUs from his IIPA in previous attempts. How is this being measured? My understanding of IBUs was that above 100 it is very hard to tell the actual bitterness. Most human palates can't differentiate past that, and most algorithms break down past that. Was this really measured, or was it just an overkill of hops? (I bet it tasted gooooood though) As for the hop aroma, I don't think the 20g at 5 and flameout is enough. I do that with my APA and if I don't dry hop, it doesn't have much of a hop aroma. I would cancel the last flameout addition and double it in the secondary as dry hop, however, if you don't want to dry hop, how about making a hop tea and adding that after fermentation? It won't make a mess, and you'll get some aroma and possibly flavor out of them. I think 114 is an attainable goal. Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 14:20:35 -0400 From: "\\-s at roadrunner.com" <"\\-s"@roadrunner.com> Subject: Subject: re: Brewing Science Classes > In HBD #5736 Jeff Walls asked about brewing classes other than Seibel and > UC Davis > > > > The problem is that any short courses are not likely to be sufficiently technical and any good technical programs are multi-year degree programs. Heriot-Watt offers an MSc degree in brewing and distilling by distance learning from their International Centre for Brewing and Distilling. http://www.postgraduate.hw.ac.uk/courses/view/119 Doemans in Germany has a similar program, but I am not aware of distance learning. Perhaps you could start by picking up a few good undergrad courses in the basics, physical chemistry, lab methods, microbiology, biochem. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:36:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Nick Trubov <ntrubov at swbell.net> Subject: imperial IPA Here is what I do. I bought a little jar of hop pellets (Saaz) that I keep in the freezer and I drop a couple of pellets into any glass of beer I'm drinking (and I drink almost exclusively IPA's). It sure does taste good. I even like to chew on the little buggers. NT ========================== Nick Trubov and all the other Trubovs Lorree, Corbin and Alex ========================== > So I'm getting ready to brew an Imperial IPA this coming weekend. > I did one a year ago with an OG of 82 and 196 IBU based on some > recommendations that I couldn't go high enough. In the end I don't > think I went too high, but it was mostly bitterness and not much > aroma or distinctive hop flavor. I did EKG at 5 minutes left in the boil > and it wasn't enough. > > So, for this one, I'm shooting right now for an OG of 80 and IBU of > 114. Main bitterness is planned from from whole leaf Zeus hops. I've > got a bit of Fuggle, then finishing with Cascade. My thought is to put > 20 g of Cascade at 5 minutes out and another 20 g at flame out. > > Without getting into dry hopping or a hop back, what do you think? Return to table of contents
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