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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  lower gravity ("Dave Burley")
  Non Celiac recipes HB Digest 5888 (Chuck Petersen)
  Re: Target Gravity (Fred L Johnson)
  RE: Target Gravity ("David Houseman")
  Gluten-free recipes ("Steve Johnson")
  re: gluten free homebrewing (Tim Frommer)
  target gravity (Keith Carroll)
  Re: Target Gravity (Stephen Jorgensen)
  Gravity issues (Michael Graham)
  Target Gravity (Keith Carroll)
  Re: Target Gravity (Jeff Muse)
  RE Subject: Igloo vs Coleman? ("Mr. Wolf")


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Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 00:57:59 -0500
From: "Dave Burley" <Dave Burley at charter.net>
Subject: lower gravity

Keith,

Lower than expected gravity is most often a milling problem.  Try closing
the mill a littlle and double milling.

Dave Burley

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 22:13:19 -0800
From: Chuck Petersen <chpete at opusnet.com>
Subject: Non Celiac recipes HB Digest 5888

This is for Keith Carrol for gluten free recipes. Gluten
is only in wheat not barley. So any recipe containing
any wheat or wheat malt would be off limits but barley
only recipes should not cause any problems.

I have acquaintances that are still sensitive even in
barley only recipes and they use sorghum malt as
their base malt. The taste is a bit heavier maltiness
which was counteracted by a a longer mash and
heavier use of hops. To use it just substitute the sorghum
malt for your base malt in your recipes and make sure
not to use wheat or wheat malt in any recipe.

Chuck Petersen
Deer Island, Oregon

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 08:30:42 -0500
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Target Gravity

Keith is apparently consistently low on his beers target gravity. I assume
Keith is referring to his post-boil, starting gravity. Before we try to
figure out a solution to this issue, we should establish a few things. I
really recommend that we get all the facts we can before throwing out our
guesses of what he should run off and try to fix the problem.

I am assuming that Keith has a decent malt, so we won't make any efforts at
this point to evaluate the malt itself. 

We should first determine if Keith is getting good saccharification and good
lautering efficiency. For the starch conversion, we need to know how much
water was mixed with how much grain (as exactly as possible) and what the
gravity of that wort is after thorough mixing and before lautering. That will
allow us to calculate how much sugar Keith got from the malt. If it is low,
then possibly his crush is inadequate, or his mash pH is off, or something
odd happened at dough in (like VERY high) strike water temperature, or we
must go back to the question of the quality of the malt.

If the saccharification value is good, then we move on to lautering
efficiency. We need to know the exact volume in the boil kettle (and the
temperature at which the measurement was made) after the lautering is
complete and after the wort is thoroughly mixed in the kettle before the
boil. That will allow us to calculate the lautering efficiency and the
overall extraction efficiency. I'm guessing that one of the values above is
low. If the lautering efficiency is low, I'll ask some more questions.

If the saccharification is good and the lautering efficiency is reasonable,
then then the only reason the starting gravity of the beer would be low is
that some water is getting into the post-boil wort (e.g., by topping off the
fermentor) or the boil did not bring the volume down to the target starting
gravity. The latter can easily be fixed by boiling the wort until the gravity
is correct. 

Get back to us, Keith, with some figures, and I'll bet we can help you out.

Fred L Johnson

Apex, North Carolina, USA

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 09:26:17 -0500
From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Target Gravity

Keith,

You say your are 10 points off a target for a given recipe but you don't say 
what the target was.   I'm not in favor of trying to use others' recipes. 
With literally a hundred+ variables, the recipe likely only gave you some 
very basic facts.   You are much better off understanding the style and 
creating your own recipes based on your system.

Suppose the recipe calls for 10lbs of pils malt.   Most pils malt should 
have a max yield of about 36 points per pound per gallon.  But what 
efficiency did the recipe assume and what is your own mash efficiency? 
Mash efficiency is determined by the mash schedule, water chemistry, 
physical design of the mash tun, physical agitation, the malt milling and 
other factors.   You house efficiency may be 66% or 75%.  The person who 
wrote the recipe may have a house efficiency of 85%.   You need to 
understand you system and adjust recipes.   Better yet, create your own. 
There may be nothing wrong with you being 10 points off a target for a given 
recipe at all.   Consider the source of recipes (they may be anomalies) and 
get to understand the variables that determine mash efficiencies and work on 
those for your system.

David Houseman


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 08:32:12 -0600
From: "Steve Johnson" <sjohnson3 at comcast.net>
Subject: Gluten-free recipes

Keith Carroll asks about where to find gluten-free recipes.

I just so happened to receive an e-mail this week sent to me as a
representative of an AHA-listed homebrew club, so I suspect there
are a lot of other HBD readers who may have received the same thing
recently. I have not yet started any communication with this
individual because I am not a Facebook user, so I can't vouch for
any of the information that he is presenting, but it sounds like an
area of interest that might be growing in popularity. 

My limited knowledge which is based on some samples brewed by one of 
our club members and some interactions with the brewer about his
process is that there are definitely some things to do that are
different from traditional barley malt brewing, but I can't recall
those details at the moment.

Steve Johnson
Music City Brewers
Nashville, TN

Anyway, for what it is worth, this might be a good place to start:

"Hello, 

I obtained your information from the American Homebrewers Association's
'Find a Homebrew Club' feature. 

Your club may have members which are interested in brewing gluten free
beer. I myself have had a challenging  time not only learning to brew
beer at home, but also learning how to brew gluten free beer. 

The available information is limited and sometimes difficult to find.
Soon after starting home brewing I created a Facebook page to share the
information I have learned, exchange recipes and discuss gluten free home
brewing. 

There are no products sold on the website, and the only advertising is that
which is generated by Facebook. 

I invite you to display the attached flyer at your next club event to help
those patrons which brew gluten free beer and encourage their pursuit of 
home brewing. If you have a personal or club Facebook page I also encourage
you to "like" www.facebook.com/GlutenFreeHomeBrewing. All club pages will be
listed as a "featured liked" page. 

Speaking as a home brewer myself, a centrally located resource of gluten
free home brewing information is a great  resource for the home brewer.
Furthermore, it may be a beneficial asset to your club to assist and encourage
the gluten free home brewer. 

Sincerely, 

Brian Kolodzinski 
Gluten Free Home Brewing 
Recipes - Discussions - Lets start brewing! 
Recipe submission: gfhb-email at usa.net 
www.facebook.com/GlutenFreeHomeBrewing 

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 09:10:17 -0800
From: Tim Frommer <tfrommer at gmail.com>
Subject: re: gluten free homebrewing

My one attempt at a GF beer was pretty mediocre. There are groundswells
here and there on the net of gluten-free/gluten-intolerant homebrewing.
Below is a link to one of the better ones I've seen.

http://www.slideshare.net/BrianKolodzinski/gluten-freehomebrewing

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:06:23 -0500
From: Keith Carroll <audio1 at optonline.net>
Subject: target gravity

Thanks all for responses.
I do not know my efficiency of my system.
Some facts.
Igloo 5 gal mash tun.
Strike temp usually 152 degrees give or take a couple.
Mash time usually 90 mins.
3 or 3.5 gal water at strike.
5 Gal mash out at 172 degrees.
Mostly Breiss 2 row plus specialty grains.
Last beer brewed a stout mash gravity at 172 degrees was 1.070.
Target gravity called for post boil was 1.056.
My final gravity at 70 degrees was 1042 with plus 1 for hydrometer temp 
correction.

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 23:18:15 -0600
From: Stephen Jorgensen <stephen at ultraemail.net>
Subject: Re: Target Gravity

Keith,

There are no doubt dozens of things to try, paying attention to water
chemistry and pH probably chief among them but I am no chemist and there
are many here who are.  The best increase in mash efficiency I ever got
was when I started conditioning my malt before milling. 

The idea is to soften the husks allowing you to set a finer gap in the
mill resulting in well pulverized endosperm while keeping husks
relatively whole.  Use a spray bottle to carefully and evenly add about
0.3 oz water per pound of malt. A good short article on the process is at:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malt_Conditioning

Stephen Jorgnsen



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 10:11:26 -0500
From: Michael Graham <mpg157 at gmail.com>
Subject: Gravity issues

The recipes you follow assume a certain brewhouse efficiency to get the OG
they state.  Your brewhouse efficiency is obviously less than that assumed
in the recipes you follow.  You can try to boost your efficiency to the
level the recipe writers assume.  I found that when I bought my own grain
mill, and milled my own grain rather fine instead of having the local
homebrew supply shop do it, I got a 5-10% increase in efficiency.

If you don't want to change your procedure you can calculate your brewhouse
efficiency and use a computer program to adjust the grain bill of a recipe
to get the desired OG.  I use Beer Alchemy for the Mac, but there is also
Beer Smith for the PC.  With these programs you type in what grain you used
and what OG you got, and the program calculates your efficiency.  You can
then plug in this efficiency percentage to the program next time you brew,
and it will let you figure out how much grain to use to get your desired OG
using your current process at its efficiency rate.

Hope this helps

Mike Graham
Orlando, FL

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 15:02:11 -0500
From: Keith Carroll <audio1 at optonline.net>
Subject: Target Gravity

I want to thank all those who replied.
I have tested all (4) thermometers and they are wildly different.
Analog probe from local HBS reads 160
Digital probe from same store($34) 146
Digital probe from housewares store($9) 156
10 year old floating reads 150. This is one I trust but not good for 
mash tun.
Its time for real thermometer.
Suggestions please.
Also looking at grist.
Again thanks to all!!

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 14:13:37 -0600
From: Jeff Muse <jeff.muse at charter.net>
Subject: Re: Target Gravity

There are a number of places in the brewing process which affect target gravity.
It could be that you aren't fully converting all the starch in the grain to
sugars. That could be a matter of crush or water chemistry. It could be that
you're getting full conversion but not doing a good job of separating the
sugars from the grain. It could be that you're diluting your wort too much. It
could be that your boil is not vigorous enough to reduce the wort to your
desired OG. It could be a combination of these things. The only way to figure
out where the problem is located is by measuring your gravity at every step of
the process and measuring your pre-boil volume as well. I strongly suggest
using a refractometer for these measurements. Brewing software is a huge help 
as well.

If you've got an accurate reading of your pre-boil gravity, know what your
pre-boil gravity should be, and know what your boil volume is, you can make up
any shortfall with DME.

The single best resource for learning about efficiency that I know of is Kai
Troester's page at http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Efficiency.  It
is a must-read for learning about all-grain brewing.

Good luck!

 -Jeff

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Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 17:08:17 -0800
From: "Mr. Wolf" <mordantly84 at gmail.com>
Subject: RE Subject: Igloo vs Coleman?

I have the 70QT Coleman XTREME. It's huge... full mashes for 5g can be done
in it easily. I have put 30# grain in it with room leftover. I lose about
~1 *F after an hour mash. I have all stainless bulkhead and valve and
screen for sanitary purposes. I had issues with stuck mashes that I
attribute to the braid collapsing/floating. Have not used since I modified
it, as well as increased my crush.

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