---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Stuff Happens (Rob Gardner)
  suppliers needed (Seismo Malm)
  info about suppliers (Seismo Malm)
  Brew in Knoxville, TN? ("Gary Mason - I/V PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  06-Mar-1991 0724")
  Brewpub Selection (Ron Rader)
  Travelling with and for beer (John Bates)
  Fischer 36//15 (mcnally)
  Brewpub marketing (flowers)
  Re: Weird Beer? (Chris Shenton)
  beer-drinking women (Dick Dunn)
  traveling w/homebrew (Stephen Russell)
  &*$# at  bottling wand, mead (Carl West x4449)
  Mead *re*starts fermenting! (Chris Shenton)
  Garlic Beer from TCJOHB (Speaker-To-Bankers)
  Premier Malt Extract (Darren Evans-Young)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #590 (March 06, 1991) (Brian Capouch)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Today, Mountain Time
From: rdg at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Rob Gardner)
Subject: Stuff Happens


I've been getting lots of messages complaining of missing digests,
erratic service, etc. Please keep in mind that most of the problems
you are likely to encounter are not under my control, and so I cannot
do very much to help. If you sporadically miss digests, it is unlikely
to be a problem at this end, but is probably some sort of network
thing. Consider the possibility that your address on my list is
unreliable, and perhaps send an alternative. If you stop getting
digests completely, then it probably means that mail to your address
has been bouncing, so I've removed your address from the mailing list.
In that case, it is necessary to resubscribe with a hopefully better
address. Remember that I don't have infinite time to figure out
various mail problems, and I am very likely to blow away any address
from the list that is costing time to babysit.  I'll try to keep the
archives up to date for back issues; Please do not send me requests
for back issues, as I generally delete these immediately without
responding.

Sorry to be taking this position, but it's just impossible to
personally reply to every message that comes in. My primary goal is to
keep network traffic here to a minimum, since I've already had several
nasty encounters with bean counters, auditors, and administrators, and
the digest has had a few scrapes with death.  So please try to make
things easier for me here, and be more toleratant of the ocassional
glitch.

Having said all this, remember to relax and don't worry. I'm doing
my best to keep the digests going out regularly in spite of stormy
weather. Thanks for all your patience and support!


Rob, your humble and busy publisher



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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 11:23:38 +0200
From: Seismo Malm <Seismo.Malm at jyu.fi>
Subject: suppliers needed


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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 11:49:19 +0200
From: Seismo Malm <Seismo.Malm at jyu.fi>
Subject: info about suppliers

  Sorry about previous null message. here is the original.

  A friend of mine has a homewine(/homebrew) shop here in Finland. When
I told him about homebrewing equipment availlable in USA he thought
that there would probably be very many finnish homebrewers wanting to
purchase cornelius kegs for example. He asked me to post a request to
diggest about adresses of posible supliers. here are the main interests

1) cornelius kegs
2) hop extracts
3) good quality yeasts

If you could mail info to me, I would be very gratefull.
(a sidenote: a 330 ml botle of beer costs about 1.5 to 3 US$ here in shops
 and about 6- US$ in restaurants)

sm at tukki.jyu.fi (seismo malm)
 

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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 04:21:08 PST
From: "Gary Mason - I/V PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503 06-Mar-1991 0724" <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Brew in Knoxville, TN?

Any recommendations for brewpubs/beerpubs in Knoxville?

Cheers...Gary

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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 10:29:41 EST
From: rlr at bbt.com (Ron Rader)
Subject: Brewpub Selection

  Mark Stevens speaks...

> In my various brewpub travels, I've found no brewpubs that specifically
> brew a diet beer, although a sensible approach was taken by the Vermont
> Brewing Co. in Burlington VT. They offer a diet beer, but they make it on
> the spot by mixing 1/2 club soda and 1/2 the beer of your choice.

  This is a clever idea, one I haven't seen before.

> however, I can't really give the Blue Ridge [Brewing Co. in Charlottesville
> VA] high marks overall because they also sell Bud and
> Bud Light---the most heinous of sins for a brewpub---makes it seem like
> they talk quality when it suits them, but when there's a buck to be
> made, they'll gladly pump more piss than a Roto-Rooter man.

  Can't agree with you here, Mark.  If this helps a brewpub stay in business,
I'm perfectly content.  There aren't a whole lot of people willing to spend
$5 per beer for a night of drinking.  If the Bud sales partially subsidize
the in-house brews, that's even better (doubtful though).  Personally, I'll
drink swill beer to save cash from time to time, allowing me to sample more
good beers.

  As far as wine sales go, I don't have much of an opinion, since I am not
much of a wine drinker.  A good idea if it helps the brewpub stay in business.
The yups seem to drink alotta wine at brewpubs ;) .

  My personal preferences run towards more traditional slum bars, with stages
and sawdust on the floors.  Bands nightly!  Even better if there's an addi-
tional quiet room to relax and taste the in-house brews.  Although I like
brewpubs, I find that the um, more yupscale ones get a little too boring on
repeated visits.

- -- 
ron rader, jr  rlr at bbt.com OR ...!mcnc!bbt!rlr = Opinions are my own and do
| |  i gotta six-pack & nothing to do...       = not necessarily reflect those
 | | i gotta six-pack & i don't need you       = of BroadBand Tech. (SO THERE!)
  *** Punk ain't no religious cult, punk means thinking for yourself - DKs ***

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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 09:12:09 MST
From: bates at bjerknes.Colorado.EDU (John Bates)
Subject: Travelling with and for beer

I posted my only experience with shipping beer UPS before the holidays.  UPS
had completely shashed my shipment (probably dropped a 50 lb box on it) and
they said tough, no apology no refund, nada.  I talked to the AHA about this and they assured me they use UPS all the time to ship beers to tastings but
did suggest you not identify it as beer.  Someone was writing an article on
this for Zymurgy, but it has not been published yet.  They hinted that
Papazian had written to UPS and gotten an OK, but I asked for a copy and have
yet to see anything official.  This suggests there is no uniform UPS policy
on this and you take your chances with whomever you happen to deal with at
UPS.

Undaunted, I packed a couple of homebrews in a nice box and carried it on
the plane for my holiday travels.  I had no hassle as it went through the X-ray.  Others on the
Digest have reported mostly similar experiences, with an occasional hassle,
but Federal law says it's OK.  I would caution putting homebrew in the
check-in luggage, I just don't trust the temperature/pressure changes that
occur in the cargo hold.

John Bates (Normans evil twin...)

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Date: Wed, 06 Mar 91 08:12:30 PST
From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Subject: Fischer 36//15


Unless you are a member of a different species than I am, I can guarantee
that you will *not* enjoy 36//15.  It is, briefly, disgusting.  Not just
hard to enjoy---like, for example, German Rauchbier---but really awful.
Why any brewer would go to the trouble of brewing a beer with so many
bizarre ingredients can only be explained as a freakish marketing 
experiment.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1991 10:27:59 -0600
From: flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu
Subject: Brewpub marketing

This thread is very interesting to me as I was very near (and still trying)
to being a brewpub owner.  First I'd like to say that Jeff (the person
planning the dream brewpub) doesn't need conjectures or perceptions, he
needs facts.  For example:
> From a very small sample of friends, my suspicion is that.....
This is somewhat useful as it states the source of the data and clearly
states that a conclusion was DRAWN.  Statements such as:
>some marketing types think......
and
>many women probably get the impression....
are useful only when considering the source.  Is he an expert in the field?
 If not, what are his sources for this information?  There are hundreds,
nay, thousands of reports of studies conducted to answer questions such as,
who drinks beer, where do they drink it, what attracts them to a paticular
product, etc.  Many of these reports and findings can be found in industry
magazines and marketing magazines and reference books.  Judgements based on
facts lead to business success.  Guesses often fail.

As for marketing a beer or beverage toward women:  this is an extremely
good idea and nearly essential.  Chip wrote recently:
> Sometimes some parts of a group
>don't want alcohol and don't want soda/tonic/pop; fruit juice straight or
>with plain seltzer is getting popular.
This is very true and supported by industry trends as reported in The New
Brewer (published by the Institute for Brewing Studies)(volume and number
not handy but available).  Offering an 'off' beverage (meaning not the main
staple which is beer) is a way of marketing a product to the non primary
sales audience.  As it happens, many maketing studies are described
demographically with sex being a major division.  Therefore reports may
state that women drink less beer.  The response is to market a product (or
special beer) towards women.  Now we all know (and Stacey pointed out
recently) that MANY women LIKE beer.  It's just that women are the largest
targetable group from the population of those who drink less beer (under
the per capita average consumtion say). 

There are many ways to market a beer towards women (or the lighter beer
drinkers in general).  Some would be change the taste and ingredients of a
beer, special advertising of an existing product, use a paticular name,
lighten the aftertaste, etc.  There are probably hundreds of ways, some
admittedly better than others.    You would probably want to pick a
marketing plan that would encompass the WHOLE target population, not JUST
women.  "Lite" as part of the name, does this well.

Mark Stevens writes:
> I 
>also believe that no brewpub should *EVER* sell a beer made by an 
>industrial brewer and that, in general, they should NOT brew diet (aka,
"light")
>beers. 

Why is there a problem about brewing 'diet' beers?  Your in business to
make money and if you can justify brewing it with potential new sales, why
not do it?  Without looking at any demographics about dieting people, I
have observed the many advertising campaigns for Slim-Fast (spokesperson:
Tommy Lasorda), Weight Watcher's (Lynn Redgrave) and other such products. 
This would indicate to me that there is a large targetable population out
there that I may be able to sell beer to.

>They offer a diet beer, but they make it on
>the spot by mixing 1/2 club soda and 1/2 the beer of your choice. This
>lets you pick the flavor of beer, or even try a variety, albeit in a 
>watered down version---this still results in a better drink with more
>flavor than any of the commercial diet beers.

In your opinion it's better.  This also sounds like a very good way to
reach someone who wants a lighter beer.  It sounds like a good marketing
idea.

>An even better solution
>might be to promote a beer with 1/3 fewer calories...but instead of
>a watered down beer, you get a 9 ounce glass instead of a 12 ounce glass.

This sounds like a rotten idea.  I believe, (again without the benifit of
demographics) that dieters would want to consume the same amount of
substance without the same caloric intake.  They may just end up ordering
more 9oz glasses than they would 12 oz.  Essentially your saying, if you
want less calories, just drink (and eat) less.  Chances are, if someone is
on a diet, they may already be having problems controlling their amount of
intake.  They may percieve a 9oz glass as a rip-off.

>....I can't really
>give the Blue Ridge high marks overall because they also sell Bud and
>Bud Light---the most heinous of sins for a brewpub....

If you were REALLY interested in quality yourself, you wouldn't judge a
place on what they sell but on the quality of the product they make. 
Consider all the people drinking Bud and Bud Lite as subsidisizing the
quality beer in your hand.  Also, try to introduce a Bud drinker to the
homemade product.  Most places (this can be backed up) will make more money
per serving of their beer than per Bud.  The problem of profit comes in
when you can't sell enough of your own product when it is the only one
offered.

>The key is not to insult educated
>consumers with hokey names and silly gimmicks.

HOKEY names and SILLY gimmicks are indeed a bad idea, however, using a name
or gimmick to sell a product is the way of business.  Just watch a few TV
commercials to find that out.  Consider that a potential investor in your
brewpub will consider beer brewed on the premises as just a gimmick to get
people from other bars, to your bar.  I do not believe there are many
brewpubs out there just to raise the American consciousness of good beer. 
They want to make money and brewing your own beer brings people in.  That's
why you'll see many brewpubs that are 'in'.  Do you really believe ALL
those people are beer connoisseurs like the people of this digest?  To be
sure, there are few of us, but people (the average Joe and Jane) are
starting to appreciate good beer.  That is why the brewpub craze is not a
fad as many investors believed in the early going.

My apologies about the length of this post.

 -Craig
 A HBD subsriber since #444
 (flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu)


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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 12:00:38 EST
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Weird Beer?

>>>>> On Tue, 5 Mar 1991 9:10:53 EST, TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV said:

> Whats the story on Fischer's new designer brew 35//19? (I think that's
> what it's called) At $8.00 a 3-pak, its pricey.


I don't like it.

It's being marketed as the world's first aphrodisiac beer, complete with
sci-fi phallic-symbol packaging. Weird mix of fruits and spices. 33//19 is
supposedly the conference number of a ISO/sex phone conference on the
Paris/French phone computer thing.

[No flames, please -- This is what the marketing guy said...]

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Date: 5 Mar 91 21:01:18 MST (Tue)
From: ico.isc.com!rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: beer-drinking women

(I should get Diane to post her views on this herself, but she's busy and
traveling.  Besides, I'm right here at the console, and isn't that what
husbands are for...to be barefoot and programming?:-)

My best guess is that the supposed tendency for women not to like beer is
something that's been marketed into place.  If the marketing for real beer
appeals to the macho image, you've got a problem trying to market the same
product to women, because the images clash.

Diane grew up in England, then moved to the US.  Overall, she's pretty
independent, and her tastes are eclectic, which accounts for some of her
preferences, but still I think the Briton in her has substantial influence.
Her beer preferences are roughly:
	barleywine (ours, Bigfoot, Old Foghorn, Hardy's)
	doppelbock (Salvator in particular, and an occasional Samichlaus
		or EKU 28)
	stouts (homebrew, Tooth's Sheaf, SN, Mackeson) and Anchor Porter
	bitter and west-coast-ale style (SN Pale Ale, Anchor Liberty, etc)
...with the obvious seasonal shifts, and of course mead/melomel factored
in wherever possible...
What's more, she's able to convince women friends to give these a try...
and as often as not, they like them!  I think the stereotype "women like
light beers" is WORSE than a marketed misconception.  It may serve Schlud-
willer well, especially since their "lite" products are cheaper to make,
but I don't see any substance to it.  You could just as easily argue the
mis-generalization "women don't like beer" on the basis that they avoid
it because the US mass-marketed stuff is insipid.

(and yes, we're both involved in our brewing...although there are certain
procedures for which she claims only men have the required expertise, such
as washing bottles.:-)
   ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at raven.eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd


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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 13:25:05 -0500
From: srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu (Stephen Russell)
Subject: traveling w/homebrew


Bill Thacker in #590 wanted to know about traveling on
commercial aircraft with homebrew.  

I have always carried on homemade beer in a case or
1/2 case and placed it under the seat in front of me.
1/2 cases seem to fit best for obvious reasons.  When
I go through the security/X-ray check and they ask me
what it is I just say "beer".  Never had any problems.
However, the last time I did this was in early January,
i.e., before Desert Storm, so if security has tightened,
this may no longer be possible.  

As far as packing it in luggage, JUST SAY NO!  For one
thing, glass bottles are susceptible to breaking in
luggage.  I have had it happen to me (Kahlua, not beer).
Yuck!  For another, homebrew is sensitive to bottle
conditioning more so than any other alcoholic beverage
I know of.  Going topsy-turvy, sideways, rearways, and
upside-down ways won't help the beer flavor/clarity/
color/aroma any.  Anyhow, the airlines always recommend
against putting glass in luggage and are not liable
for damages when your glass breaks.

By the way, people carry on wine bottles all the time;
wineries often sell travel cases (cardboard, usually)
to facilitate this.  So in principle, if someone
at a security check gave you trouble, you could 
appeal to their common sense.  The only thing airline
types seem to get anal about is the whole "fitting
under the seat in front of you" idea.  There are
overhead racks, too, I guess!

ON ANOTHER NOTE......I'm still looking for brewers
in Central New York, especially Ithaca, that are
receiving this newsletter.  Please send me e-mail
or give me a call (Steve at 273-7306 eves, 255-4648
days);  I would like very much to exchange beers
and information locally.

Steve Russell
Cornell Department of Materials Science


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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 12:25:42 EST
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West x4449)
Subject: &*$# at  bottling wand, mead

Last night I was bottling a gallon batch of mead*
using that most marvelous of inventions, the bottling wand.
All was going well until the orange plastic valve assembly
dropped off the wand into the bottle I was filling. When I 
pulled the wand from the bottle, Surprise! mead all over the 
floor. When I lost the siphon, a hose-full of mead whooshed 
back into the carboy and stirred up a bunch of sediment.   at *&%$&*%!

I'm tempted to glue the bloody thing together, but I fear that 
doing so will make the wand nearly impossible to clean thoroughly. 
Perhaps there is a better designed bottling wand available? 
Oh, another feature, if you boil the plastic tube it may well 
end up looking like a shilelagh, I know :^)

 -Carl

* I'm very happy with the mead, it is a very simple recipe:

1 gallon bottled water (I don't really trust our tap water)
2# generic honey
zest and juice of one medium lemon

simmer these together and skim off the scum *as*it*rises* 
(if you wait for it all to rise so you can skim just once
and you miss the moment, the scum sinks, never to rise again)
I pitched directly into the wort/must (what is it when you're
making mead?):

1/4tsp Red Star Champagne yeast

and kept it at room temp (65-72) for 5 weeks where it bubbled
about once every 5 seconds for the whole time. In fact it was 
still going when I bottled, yes, I plan to begin drinking it soon,
before it becomes a grenade six-pack.



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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 16:12:18 EST
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Mead *re*starts fermenting!

I have a cranberry mead which has been fermenting now for about 3
months. It's been very slow the past 6 weeks or so, which is natural.
Yesterday, it started fermenting somewhat vigorously again, pushing some
fruit pulp into the airlock and generally making a mess.

Should I assume this batch has recently become contaminated? It tastes fine
- -- clean, *very* alcoholic, and rather tart (due to the honey fermenting
out). What can I do to save it? Toss in a Campden tablet to nuke all life
forms, then bottle? (if I bottle now, I assume I'll get glass-grenades)

Thanks in advance...

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Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 16:55:46 EDT
From: cmorford at umbio.med.miami.edu (Speaker-To-Bankers)
Subject: Garlic Beer from TCJOHB

Forwarded message:






 


 









 
Several weeks ago someone asked about the garlic beer that Mr. Papazian
mentioned in TCJOHB.
 
 I talked to the people that brewed the infamous concoction and what they
 told me to do is boil up a can of light malt. After the boiling is done,
 throw about 3 to 4 HEADS of garlic (A head is the whole bundle of garlic),
 throughly smashed. Let the beer ferment out and carbonate normally. Don't
 add the garlic during the boil or you will boil off the aromatics that give
 garlic its unique smell and flavor.
 
 In the last message I wrote about this I speculated that the best use for
 this brew would be cooking seafood. The original brewers agree with this
 although they still contend that it goes great with pizza...
 
 


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Date:         Wed, 06 Mar 91 18:06:07 CST
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Premier Malt Extract


Here in the land of no homebrew Alabama....

I noticed something that made me laugh in the grocery store yesterday.
About 12-15 cans of Premier Light Hopped Malt Extract (2.2#)!!!
It even had a yeast packet included.  The side of the can said:
"Makes xxx Six Packs of Beer!"  I forgot what xxx was.
Has anyone used this stuff?  Should I go buy them all?  It was
about $3.39 per 2.2# can.  I did notice a recipe in TCJOH that called
for 5 lbs of this stuff (Wise Ass Bitter? ...something like that).

Suggestions?

Darren

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Darren Evans-Young, Sys Prg                  BITNET: DARREN at UA1VM.BITNET  |
| The University of Alabama                  Internet: DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU  |
| Seebeck Computer Center                       Phone: (205)348-3988 / 5380 |
| Tuscaloosa, Alabama  35487-0346                      (205)348-3993 FAX    |
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*

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Date: Wed,  6 Mar 91 23:13:09 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #590 (March 06, 1991)

Excerpts from homebrew: 6-Mar-91 Homebrew Digest #590 

>Whats the story on Fischer's new designer brew 35//19? (I think that's
>what it's called) At $8.00 a 3-pak, its pricey.
>Ted )TSAMSEL at USGSRESV.BIT)

I believe you're describing their "lover's beer"--the fatuous brew that
comes in a neo-phallic bottle and features a couple on the box with red
diagonal color-swatches on their cheeks-- I haven't tasted it, but a
general rule of thumb is that Fischer beers are about as bad as imports
can be.

Although I realize I'm risking some kind of cultural war here, I would
venture to say that in my humble experience French beers in general are
a poor investment--they ought to stick to making wines over there, which
they are indeed good at. :-)

The Fischer's people are very marketing-oriented; they are looking to
sell their beers to the sort of y-people who would buy it *because* it's
horrendously priced and packaged in a manner that Bozo the Clown would
blush over.  They haven't heard that those people don't exist anymore,
or perhaps they're trying to milk the dregs a bit.  

B.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #591, 03/07/91
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