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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Homebrew Digest #589 (March 05, 1991) (Rick Palmer)
  soda recipes (chip upsal)
  Weird Beer? (TSAMSEL)
  "For women only" beer"?  Dumb idea. (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #589 (March 05, 1991) (Michael J. Tuciarone)
  ``Real'' lambics/framboise/kreik ? (Chris Shenton)
  beer and women (Chip Hitchcock)
  Travelling with and for beer (Bill Thacker)
  Re: first batch (krweiss)
  Bier de'Garde ("Jack D. Hill")
  Cornelius lids (Dave Suurballe)
  Kosher Beer, Burlington & Boston Pubs (hersh)
  unusual homebrew situation (Duane Smith)
  Cider going BOOM! (SU0751A)


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Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Tue, 5 Mar 91 06:31:31 -0500
From: rick at cs.cornell.edu (Rick Palmer)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #589 (March 05, 1991)

please remove me from this list.

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Date: 05 Mar 91 06:32:16 EST
From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com>
Subject: soda recipes

I am looking for some homemade soda recipes.  Me and my sone just made
some rootbeer form those rainbow soda extracts and keged it up in the old
corny keg.  It worked out well.  Now I want to try somthing more homemade.


Chip


"In heven they have no beer, that's why we drink it here..."


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Date:    Tue, 5 Mar 1991 9:10:53 EST
From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV
Subject: Weird Beer?

Whats the story on Fischer's new designer brew 35//19? (I think that's
what it's called) At $8.00 a 3-pak, its pricey.
Ted )TSAMSEL at USGSRESV.BIT)

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Date: Tue, 5 Mar 91 10:46:42 EST
From: (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: "For women only" beer"?  Dumb idea.

In reference to Jeffrey Shelton's idea of marketing a beer made only for
women, I'd agree with the people who find that a bit hokey or insulting. I 
also believe that no brewpub should *EVER* sell a beer made by an 
industrial brewer and that, in general, they should NOT brew diet (aka, "light")
beers. In my various brewpub travels, I've found no brewpubs that specifically
brew a diet beer, although a sensible approach was taken by the Vermont
Brewing Co. in Burlington VT. They offer a diet beer, but they make it on
the spot by mixing 1/2 club soda and 1/2 the beer of your choice. This
lets you pick the flavor of beer, or even try a variety, albeit in a 
watered down version---this still results in a better drink with more
flavor than any of the commercial diet beers. An even better solution
might be to promote a beer with 1/3 fewer calories...but instead of
a watered down beer, you get a 9 ounce glass instead of a 12 ounce glass.
This seems to make the most sense, but I don't see anybody doing it.

As far as wines go....this may not always be practical. In some places a
brewpub is not allowed to sell anything but beer. Other areas will allow
it. The Blue Ridge Brewing Co. in Charlottesville VA offers a selection
of locally-made wines: this is a very attractive way of keeping with the
small-and-local-is-best philosophy of the brewpub, however, I can't really
give the Blue Ridge high marks overall because they also sell Bud and
Bud Light---the most heinous of sins for a brewpub---makes it seem like
they talk quality when it suits them, but when there's a buck to be
made, they'll gladly pump more piss than a Roto-Rooter man.

As an aside...the Vermont Brewing Co. also makes *ALL* their own sodas.
No commercial products---no Pepsi, no Coke, not even a 7-Up. (What a
wondrous world that has such brewpubs in it.)

The key to attracting women (and men too for that matter) is to offer
high-quality products consistently and to effectively communicate why
and how your product really is better. The key is not to insult educated
consumers with hokey names and silly gimmicks.

- ---Mark Stevens
   stevens at stsci.edu


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Date: Tue, 5 Mar 91 07:53:45 PST
From: tooch at mongoose.Eng.Sun.COM (Michael J. Tuciarone)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #589 (March 05, 1991)

Some random comments...

 - Just cycling the bottles through a dishwasher is *not* sufficient.
  My last batch slowly developed a gusher-type infection, and the only
  significant process difference was in the bottles. Now I soak at least
  24 hours in a chlorine solution, then run the bottles through the
  "dry" (a.k.a. "plate warm") cycle in the dishwasher. (I noticed that
  there's always some water in the drain area of my G.E. dishwasher,
  and although it's demonstrably clean enough that plates don't kill me,
  it has got to have some residual bacteria lurking in there that would love
  to be sealed in a bottle with a culture medium for a few weeks.)

  The most embarrassing moment came at a friend's housewarming. One of the
  gift bottles had some kind of *algae* growing in it. (At least, that's
  how a doctor/beermaker present identified it.) Ecch! I wanted to die...
  It's Clorox, mega-strength, from here on out.

 - Did your hydrometer come with a little typwritten sheet of paper that
  had a "Specific Gravity Correction Factor" table on it? It says
  something like "add 0 at 60, add 1 at 70, add 2 at 77," etc.
  I decided to whomp that into a graph for my own amusement. Through
  the miracle of the unix spline(1) program and a little PostScript
  hacking, I came up with the appended document. If you have a PostScript
  printer handy, just dump it to it. If you have other devices around
  with a different interface (HPGL, maybe? Hi, Rob!), you can snip out the 
  data points and do your own thing with them.

 - Stacey Jueal makes some good points. I checked the Tied House in Mountain
  View the other night: most people, men and women, were drinking beer,
  with a scattering of wine drinkers. But there *were* wine drinkers.
  One of them was my wife, who makes and drinks beer but invariably prefers
  a glass of Cabernet. (She likes beer, but she *loves* wine.) 

  A brew pub is a business, and it only makes sense to offer as many
  alternatives as you can afford, in order to attract the widest variety
  of customers. (You wouldn't think of not stocking soft drinks and fizzy
  water, right?) But there's no need to market a brew directly to women.
  Make sure that one of your brews is made (and described) as "light, fresh,
  and crisp, with a refreshing flavor" (a classic Pilsener, maybe?)
  and you'll get all the people who are suspicious of the brown bilge
  water we beer snobs love to drink :-)

Enough. Salud!
t

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Date: Tue, 5 Mar 91 10:59:56 EST
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: ``Real'' lambics/framboise/kreik ?

Making framboise has recently been discussed, and the emphasis seems to be:

	1. Make a beer.
	2. Add fruit to secondary.
	3. Proceed as usual.

You surely can make a good fruit beer that way, but -- no slander intended
- -- I don't think that qualifies it as a framboise.

Mike Charlton <umcharl3 at ccu.UManitoba.CA> says he's trying to culture
lactobacillus from yougurt, as I belive, Cher Feinstein suggested many
months ago. This is getting closer to what was mentioned in [yow -- how do
you spell his name?] <The Guy Who Wrote> the AHA book _Lambic_.
(Interesting book, by the way).

The description in the book mentions 3 or 4 different strains of yeast and
bacteria which are vital to producing the true Lambic character. He also
says that you can buy these, if you've got some excess cash ($50/culture
comes to mind), and can prove you know what you are doing (eg: letterhead);
that's a bit pricey and/or difficult for us homebrewers...

Anyone tried this (any UC Davis types out there)? Do you think we could try
to convince Wyeast to go for it and offer a mixed strain? _Lambic_
indicated you have to add the various yeasts/bacteria at different times
during the beer's life, and this may *really* complicate the commercial
availability of a ``Wyeast #4001 Lambic'' strain... If, however, they
offered different cultures of the separate strains, we *could* subculture
them in our private (or club) yeast banks.


Thoughts? I'd like to stimulate discussion on how we can get some true
lambics going in the US...

					Yours in wild yeast --
								Chris

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Date: Tue, 5 Mar 91 10:56:55 EST
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: beer and women

   From a very small sample of friends, my suspicion is that more women
than men admit to a dislike of hops. It's not clear whether this is biological
(yes, there are some differences in sensory perception---mostly not the ones
that sitcoms usually get off on) or training---it may be that hops are enough
of an acquired taste that men drink beer because other men do, while women
(absent this social pressure) drink what they like. Do/did more women drink
beer in cultures where decent beer is/was generally available, or is/was it
irretrievably associated with lower classes and/or hard physical work?
Other factors:
 - serving size---some marketing types think they managed to get more women
to drink American runoff by putting it up in smaller bottles (and how much of
this is conditioning that "ladies" have delicate appetites and don't like
large servings?)
 - anti-conditioning---many women probably get the impression while still
students that the smell of beer is irretrievably linked with obnoxious
behavior. Let's not get into pro- vs anti- neoprohibitionism; just consider
the number of high schools and colleges at which getting drunk (cheaply,
i.e. beer) and acting rowdy (not to mention crudely or violently lecherous)
is either a sacred duty or the easy way of dealing with incredible boredom
in the middle of nowhere. Moreover, leftover mass-market lager spoils
quickly once unsealed and smells \\terrible//.

PS to the person looking for brewpub advice: one of the deficiencies of
Commonwealth (the only major deficiency before they started weakening their
beer) was the absence of fruit juices. Sometimes some parts of a group
don't want alcohol and don't want soda/tonic/pop; fruit juice straight or
with plain seltzer is getting popular.

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Date: Tue, 5 Mar 91 11:03:26 EST
From: Bill Thacker <hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!cbema!wbt>
Subject: Travelling with and for beer


Toward the end of March I will be visiting a friend in Seattle, 
Washington.  I'd like to bring along a selection of homebrew,
and visit some local brewpubs/microbreweries while there.

So first, has anyone here ever taken homebrew on an aircraft ?  My
first guess was to carefully package and cushion the bottles, then
put them in my check-in luggage.  Anything I should be aware of ?
Would I be better off to ship the stuff (a six-pack or thereabouts)
via UPS instead ?  

And if someone would care to recommend Seattle brewpubs, especially
those near the University of Washington area, I'd be much obliged.
For that matter, if any of you'd care to meet me at one of them, the 
first round is on me !

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker	AT&T Network Systems - Columbus      wbt at cbnews.att.com



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Date: Tue, 5 Mar 91 11:31:38 -0800
From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Subject: Re: first batch

Dave Beedle writes:

>     I pitched the yeast last night about 11 (it took a while for the stuff
>to cool).  This morning there is some activity but not as much as I
>expected.  I also notices a .25 to .5 inch layer of brownish white stuff on
>the bottom of the carboy.  What is this stuff?  Is this normal? 


Sounds like a virulent Anthrax infection to me. Hmmm, let's check the mail 
header... Oh, Dave's in Illinois -- I ought to be safe enough out here in 
California. Whooeee, that Anthrax is bad stuff.

The stuff in the bottom of your carboy is called trub. It's mostly congealed 
protein, mixed with other stuff that comes out in the boil - bits of hops and 
whatever. It's perfectly normal. Using EDME yeast, my bet is that your 
fermentation will be going vigorously by the time you get home tonight. See 
Mike Charlton's post immediately preceeding yours in HBD 589 for a discussion 
of why some folks try to remove the trub before pitching yeast. And, BTW, 
thanks for explaining that, Mike. I might give it a try, if I feel lucky. With 
my sanitary procedures, or lack thereof, I feel like every uninfected 
fermentation is a stroke of luck. Leaving the unpitched brew just sitting for 
12 hours might make me nervous.

Ken Weiss
krweiss at ucdavis.edu


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Date:     Tue, 5 Mar 91 15:34:04 EST
From: "Jack D. Hill" <jdhill at BBN.COM>
Subject:  Bier de'Garde


	Does anyone have a good recipe for a French Bier de'Garde(sp?)? I would
like to try to recreate something like St. Leonard's or 3 Monts or Jenlain.
Also, has anyone had any luck culturing yeast from these brews?

Thanks, 
Jack

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Date: Tue, 5 Mar 91 11:46:25 PST
From: hsfmsh.UUCP!suurb at cgl.ucsf.EDU (Dave Suurballe)
Subject: Cornelius lids

The Cornelius Company is in Anoka, Minnesota.  I'm sure you can find their
phone number in the usual way.

A tank lid can be replaced if it is a Cornelius lid (or Corco) and it was
manufactured without the pressure relief device.  Send it back, and they
send you one with the pressure relief device.

Suurballe

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Date: Tue, 05 Mar 91 18:29:45 -0500
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Kosher Beer, Burlington & Boston Pubs


In Digest #589 the following remark appeared.

> On my father's side of the family, almost
>NOBODY drinks beer.  They're Jewish, and you don't hear much about
>"kosher beer." 

The fact that your father's family didn't drink beer with the implication that
beer isn't kosher is nonsense. Beer is one of a group of foods considered
Parve. That means it is neither meat nor dairy.

The only concern with regard to beer is that it contains yeast. Therefore
during Passover beer is not supposed to be consumed by Jews, since *during
Passover* Jews are not supposed to consume yeast (in honor of those who ate
unleavened bread during the Jews exodus from Egypt). Thus the phrase seen on
many foods this time of year "Kosher for Passover" meaning the product has not
been prepared with yeast, is obviously not possible for beer.

Beer is in fact kosher and consumable at all other times of the year by Jews.
A beer produced in Isreal named Maccabee (sp??) is available in some places in
the US. I have never tried it and can't comment upon it, other than to say it
is kosher.

If your father's side of the family didn't drink beer it is possibly because
wine is a very important beverage in Jewish religous tradition, and they
probably never developed a taste for beer.


In Burlington Vt, do visit the Vermont Pub & Brewery (run by Greg Noonan of
Brewing Lager Beers fame). It is right across the park from city hall.

In Beantown my favorite places are
Brewpubs:

Cambridge Brewery at 1 Kendall Sq (actually about 2-3 blocks from Kendall Sq T
Stop where Hampshire & Broadway merge).

Commonwealth Brewing Co. (near the Boston Garden 1 or 2 blocks South )


Beer Bars:

Doyles Braddock Cafe (Washington Ave in Jamaica Plain, close to the orange
line)

Sunset Bar & Grill (corner of Harvard and Brighton in Alston)

Cornwalls in Kenmore Sq.

There are some others, but these are the first tier of beer bars.

Enjoy
	Jay H

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gaia Erda Anat  Danu Kali Mawu
Disclaimer: Don't have a cow man
It's a window system named X, not a system named X Window.

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Date: Tue, 5 Mar 91 14:04:33 PST
From: hplabs!ardent!uunet!tc.fluke.COM!gamebird (Duane Smith)
Subject: unusual homebrew situation


	Last Sunday I brewed 2 similar batches of beer, 1 using
	Red Star dry lager yeast and 1 using liquid lager yeast.
	The liquid yeast started first and blowout occured 24 hours
	later. the dry yeast blewout at about 48 hours and everything 
	appeared normal. The carboys are on a table in a heated room
	 at  75 F.

	The liquid yeast completed total fermentation after 6 days and
	is bottled. At 7 days the dry yeast filled up my fermentation
	lock completely and started heavy fermentation again. I had to
	reinstall my blowout tube again for another day.

	What gives? Any ideas.. Is this beer going to be okay. There are
	no unusual odors or anything. I've used this yeast 7-8 times
	and nothing like this has ever happened before.

	Thanks for any ideas.. Duane Smith


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Date:     Tue, 5 Mar 91 23:12 CST
From: <SU0751A%DRAKE.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:  Cider going BOOM!

It rather sounds as if something needs to be cleared up here.  In our cider
endeavors, Mark Castleman and myself have occasionally had a stopper (with
fermentation lock) come adrift from its jug.  We assert that the yeast - quite
active, always -  has done this "by sheer force of will", but in reality I
think that it's due to using the wrong size stopper.  Our local brewing supply
store, _New_City_Market_ here in Des Moines, has a fairly limited stopper
selection.  Their sizes jump from 6 to 9 1/2, the latter being what we use for
the cider.

Using _Tree_Top_ cider jugs (fairly standard, to my eye), the 9 1/2 stopper is
an *EXTREMELY* tight fit; I had to seriously work to get one out of the jug
tonight.  At a guess, number 8 stoppers would be just perfect for these jugs.
I would suggest anyone else trying cider to attempt to find this size stopper.
The 9 1/2 stoppers will occasionally force themselves out, especially if
they're wet.

We have never had a plugged fermentation lock, even though we do sometimes get
a little blowoff if the jug is too full.  Under no circumstances do I think we
are in danger of an exploding cider jug - unless the alcohol within
spontaneously ignited, which might be a real possibility with a few of these
brews!  :)

                                                Sterling Udell
                                                Big Dog Brewing Cooperative
                                                SU0751A at DRAKE.BITNET or
                                                SU0751A at ACAD.DRAKE.EDU

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #590, 03/06/91
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