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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Cincinnati brewpubs (Robin Garr)
  Wort chiller cleaning (Randy Tidd)
  Freezing homebrew (Eric Pepke)
  Copper - a Chilling Thought! (Mike Fertsch)
  Homebrew Club Newsletters (John DeCarlo)
  Seven ounce bottles (James P. Buchman)
  Small bottles ("Eric Roe")
  lou -- lagers ("KATMAN.WNETS385")
  Re: Calculating IBU's ("st. stephen")
  Bay Area Events (Rad Equipment)
  Copper Dupe (Nick Thomas)
  Flat beer... (Jay Littlepage)
  Liquid yeast and small batches ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  I was talking with Pat Rhodes of The Homebrewer's Store (1-800-tap-brew) and he said that they produced their own liquid yeat- ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Re: Homebrew Digest #598 (March 18, 1991) (Brian Capouch)
  Wort needs more than jump start??? (MEHTA01)
  me (IOCONNOR)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: 18 Mar 91 07:52:08 EST
From: Robin Garr <76702.764 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Cincinnati brewpubs

From HBD598:
 
>Ohio -- Cincinnati:
>  Wallaby Bob's - Australian Brewpub.  "Wallaby Bob's is in a mall, and
>    might technically be a microbrewery, since they do (apparently)
>    bottle and sell their beer at least for takeout.  I have not yet
>    sampled their wares."
 
It has been about a year since I was last in Cincinnati, but I am reliably
informed that Wallaby Bob's (which was in a huge mall far to the northwest of
downtown Cincinnati) has gone belly up. No great loss. Saddled with a hokey
fake-Australian theme, it had good-looking brew kettles (an odd thing to see
in a mall), but I've had much better beer at homebrew club meetings. Cloudy,
poorly carbonated, short on flavor.
 
>Kentucky -- Ft. Mitchell (Northern Kentucky)
>  Oldenberg Microbrewery - Buttermilk Pike.  "Take I-75 south (from
>    Cincinnati) to Buttermilk Pike.  The Brewery is visible from the
>    expressway.  Features a full-bodied premium and a very drinkable
>    blonde.   The beer is a bit pricey from the tap at $2.00 a mug,
>    $7.00 a pitcher.  The premium has a robust taste and finishes
>    smooth.  This beer is among the countries 5 finest beers, a
>    definite must try.  The brewery also has a fine collection of
>    beer paraphernalia and a German style beer hall with live
>    entertainment."  The AHA national conference was held here a few
>    years ago.
 
A great place! If the beer's not quite up to the quality of Sierra Nevada (for
example), it is certainly good; and the brewery -- a veritable Disneyland of
beer, with an incredible collection of beerphernalia and two OK restaurants --
is worth a special trip.
 
     -- Robin Garr, associate sysop, CompuServe Wine/Beer Forum
 
 


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Date: Mon, 18 Mar 91 09:05:01 EST
From: rtidd at ccels2.mitre.org (Randy Tidd)
Subject: Wort chiller cleaning


I finally made my wort chiller -- it was amazingly easy. I haven't
used it yet, but am getting ready to soon.  I have been storing it
in my bottling bucket, which apparently had some water in the bottom,
and some of the copper oxidized.  Since this is going to be an
immersion-style chiller, I want to get the outside of the tubing as
clean as possible before dunking into the wort.

I read somewhere (either in the digest or rec.food.drink) about a guy
that tried to clean his chiller, but when he dunked it in the boiling
wort it got REALLY clean, and all the stuff from the tubing came off
and made a film on top of his wort.  I think the reason is that the
wort is pretty acidic, and a boiling acidic solution did a great
job of cleaning his copper.  Does anyone have any way to clean the
copper BEFORE immersion in the wort?  I was thinking of washing with
hot ammonia then rinsing well with water, but I don't know if that
would do the trick.

Also, I helped a friend of mine bottle his first batch yesterday. He
really grumbled about delabeling and washing all those bottles by
hand.  When we siphoned the beer into the bottling bucket, he said
"why can't we just leave it in here, and use this bucket as a keg?"
The bucket is a 5-gallon food-grade plastic bucket with a snap-on lid,
and a spigot about 1/2" from the bottom.  I couldn't think of a real
good reason why NOT to use it, except that the pressure would be too
high and would cause a leak of CO2 or beer.  Anyone care to comment?

Oh yeah, can someone e-mail me the address to Zymurgy so I can get
a subscription?

Randy Tidd
rtidd at mwunix.mitre.org

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Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 1991 11:09:49 EST
From: PEPKE at SCRI1.SCRI.FSU.EDU (Eric Pepke)
Subject: Freezing homebrew

I've had some odd experiences with freezing homebrew.

About a year ago, I made and all-grain Framboise.  It came out very well, with
the exception of a slightly harsh taste.  I waited several months ago for the
harshness to go away, but there was no effect.  Now, normally, when I drink
a framboise or an ale, I take it from room temperature, put it in the freezer
for a few minutes just to cool it off to slightly below room temperature, and
open it.  This one time, I forgot about the bottle of Framboise in the 
freezer.  When I saw it the next day, it had frozen slushy.  I swore quietly
to myself, and put it out to thaw.  When it had thawed, the flavor was 
perfect--the harshness had entirely disappeared.  I froze the remaining 
bottles, and there was a similar improvement in all of them.

A couple of months ago, I made an all-grain version of Ruddles County loosely
based on Dave Line's recipe.  On the day of bottling, the unfinished beer 
tasted great.  I primed with a small amount of brown sugar as per the 
directions. On the day after bottling, the beer was fully carbonated and 
tasted great.  (If you are wondering why I sampled it so early, it is because
it has been my consistent experience that all-grain ales are ready for
consumption almost immediately.)  Three days after bottling, the beer was 
approaching gusher stage and had distinct off flavors.  I opened three or four 
bottles, and the story was the same.  In a panic, I put the remaining bottles 
into the freezer.  Only one burst.  The remaining beer, when thawed, was and 
is close to perfect.  The flavor and degree of carbonation is exactly what I 
had hoped for, and the beer is clear enough to read through, in spite of the 
fact that no finings were used.

Eric Pepke                                     INTERNET: pepke at gw.scri.fsu.edu
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute  MFENET:   pepke at fsu
Florida State University                       SPAN:     scri::pepke
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052                     BITNET:   pepke at fsu

Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.

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Date: Mon, 18 Mar 91 10:40 EST
From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: Copper - a Chilling Thought!

Fred Condo (and others) have been discussing use of copper in breqing
equipment.  This is a perenial topic; it comes up whenever the swallows
return to San Juan Capistrano. 

> Lately, a lot of people have been posting messages fearful of
> copper cooling tubes. The traditional brewing kettle is made of
> copper. For example, Sierra Nevada, one of the best micros in
> America, if not the world, brews and lauters its brews in a pair
> of copper kettles that came from Germany. Therefore, I think
> no one has anything to fear from contact between copper and
> beer or wort.

The problem with this argument is that homebrewers brew in tiny quanities
compared with the "big boys".  Because our volumes are smaller, we have a
proportionally larger surface area with which to pick up copper ions. 
Surface area to volume ratio determines the chemistry and physics of the
situation.  The result is that we get much more copper in our beers than
real breweries get. 

Maybe two years ago (maybe more?), some brewer with a calculator (and lots
of free time) came up with estimates of copper content in beer.  He assumed
that an "L" length copper tube of "D" diameter has "A" units of surface
area.  Using the density of copper and assuming that the tube looses a
monolayer of copper-oxide molecules each use, "N" copper molecules go into
solution.  Converting to parts per million, we are pushing the FDA limits
on copper in food. 

Perhaps someone has very old archives, or has free time and a calculator, 
and can get the details of this analysis.  In the meantime, I'm going to 
use my copper chiller and not worry!

MTF

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Date: Monday, 18 Mar 1991 11:40:44 EST
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Homebrew Club Newsletters

Hello,

My homebrew club (BURP) gets newsletters from other homebrewing clubs and
I find them very useful.

However, the paper versions can be difficult to keep track of, distribute
articles from, etc.

Has anyone tried electronic distribution?  I understand that there are
many potential problems with format (word processor or desk top publisher
or whatever) but would like to investigate it some.

Could people check with their local clubs and e-mail me information on the
hardware and software used to make the newsletter, as well as any information
on successful/unsuccessful attempts to distribute them electronically.

John "I would like to have some on my BBS, for instance" DeCarlo

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Mon, 18 Mar 91 12:10:20 -0500
From: jpb at tesuji.dco.dec.com (James P. Buchman)
Subject: Seven ounce bottles

Rolling Rock comes in either twelve or seven ounce bottles; the twelves are
screwcap but the smaller bottles have a solid lip (at least all of them
that I've seen). The bottles are green, though, not brown. At least RR is
less expensive than commercial barleywines or Holiday Coke, and it makes good
lawnmower beer. (let's see, was Latrobe Brewing Co. upstream or downstream
from Latrobe Steel .... ? :-)
				Jim Buchman
				#include <std_disclmr.h>

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Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 91 12:40 EST
From: "Eric Roe" <KXR11 at PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Small bottles

In Pennsylvania, Latrobe Brewing Co sells Rolling Rock beer in what
are commonly called "pony cases."  Each case contains 24 7 ounce
bottles.  The only disadvantages are that you've got to do
something with the Rock, and the bottles are made out of green
glass.  The green glass shouldn't be too much of a problem because
the case they come in is sturdy, and keeps out most light.  As I
recall pony cases are pretty cheap -- $7 to $8 comes to mind.  Some
of our local bars go through many of these per night.   Whether or
not you can find ponies in other parts of the US, I don't know.

                                       Eric
                               <kxr11 at psuvm.psu.edu>

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Date: Mon, 18 Mar 91 17:36 GMT
From: "KATMAN.WNETS385" <6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753 at mcimail.com>
Subject: lou -- lagers



     Date: 18-Mar-91      Time: 09:28 AM       Msg: EXT00705







Hi,
tried to send a reply to Lou (lou at mage.uucp or something) and it bounced. You
were talking about lagers vs. pilsners.

Lee Katman == Thirteen/WNET == New York, NY

=Do not= use REPLY or ANSWERBACK, it doesn't get to me.

INTERNET katman.wnets385%wnet_6790753 at mcimail.com
MCIMAIL EMS: wnet 6790753  MBX: katman.wnets385




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Date:         Mon, 18 Mar 91 13:39:58 EST
From: "st. stephen" <ST402836 at brownvm.brown.edu>
Subject:      Re: Calculating IBU's

Howdy,
   Someone gave a formula for IBU's.  Included in the formula was
a term %U, or percent utilization.  They then stated that 60 mins = 30%
utilization.  How do you calculate this?  How do i calculate utilization for
other boiling times?

thanks for the help,
steve

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Date: 18 Mar 90 11:52:15
From: Rad Equipment <Rad_Equipment at rad-mac1.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Bay Area Events

REGARDING                Bay Area Events
Since there is a large contingent of Bay Area & No. California Brewers reading
this I thought I'd do a bit of advertising for some approaching events.

AHA First Round at Anchor.
Many of you may know that the National has been split for the first round
eliminations this year between Boulder, Boston, and San Francisco.  I am the
local Registrar.  Direct mailings have gone out to all BJCP judges and to local
non-registered judges who are known to Brook Ostrom (the local judge director
for this).  In an effort to involve as many regional judges as possible, I am
soliciting via the electronic connection.  What we are planning is to conduct
the judging on two consecutive Saturdays (4/27 & 5/4) at Anchor.  We need to
have 50 judges on each day to judge at two sittings.  Judges within 2 hours of
San Francisco are asked to participate on the 27th and those beyond to come on
the 4th.  A Beds for Brewers Program and multiple entertainment, meals are in
the works.  If you are interested in participating as a judge or steward (we'll
need those too, as well as plain old volunteers) contact Brook ASAP.

Brook Ostrom
2631 G St.
Sacramento, CA 95816
916-442-7626

If you live close enough to the Anchor Brewery and would like to help out with
the un-packing and sorting of the beers, give me a call.

Russ Wigglesworth
775 Chestnut St.
San Francisco, CA 94133
415-474-8126

I realize that many of you have reservations as well as out and out problems
with the AHA and this event (some of which I share), however, I see this as a
step in the right direction.  I would like to see this event succeed so that we
can continue to improve the National and gain a little more control over the
AHA in general.  Please help us make this work!

+++++++++++++++++++

BJCP Exam, Bay Area
Byron Burch asked me to put out some feelers as to the interest level of the
Bay Area locals toward taking the BJCP Exam this spring.  We need a 60 day lead
time to set it up, and a minimum of 4 takers to make it worth while.  If you
want to take the test in May, please let me know and I'll arrange for a space
and get back to Byron.  Call me at the above address or via the Net.

Russ Wigglesworth <Rad Equipment at RadMac1.ucsf.edu>



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Date: Mon, 18 Mar 91 09:52:38 PST
From: nt at Eng.Sun.COM (Nick Thomas)
Subject: Copper Dupe



	I followed the same directions that Mike Zentner and 
Eric Roe did to make a wort chiller with 1/4-inch OD copper tubing.
Question for those of you who rebuilt yours:  Can I replace the
1/4-inch copper tubing with 3/8-inch copper and use the 
the same 1/2-inch plasting tubing for the outter tube?  
	The surprise of my week was to discover that the plastic
tube cost more than the copper!

 -nick

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Date: Mon, 18 Mar 91 08:19:37 PST
From: jayl at Corp.Sun.COM (Jay Littlepage)
Subject: Flat beer...

My last batch, for a variety of reasons, sat in the corner of the
garage in the secondary for nearly three months before I was able to
bottle it (it was intended to be a honey steam, but after spending all
winter in the secondary it's now a honey lager).  My problem is that
the fermentation seems to have gone too well, or the yeast just bagged
it out of sheer boredom.  I neglected to take a hydrometer reading
because there was a pretty good yeast pack in the secondary and it had
been at a no-glub state for quite a while.  I now have two cases of
great tasting but flat beer with unfermented corn sugar at the bottom
of the bottles.

Any ideas on how to goose these bottles?  I don't have a CO2 setup.
I'm leery (not worried) about opening the bottles and introducing new
yeast for sanitation reasons and because of the low gravity of the
beer, but if someone has had success doing this i'd like to hear about
it.  I've been making half-and-halfs with stouts in the meantime.

Jay Littlepage

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Date: 18 Mar 91 15:12:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Liquid yeast and small batches

As I am beginning my homebrewing avocation, I realize that I'll probably 
brew in smaller than five gallon batches since I am the only person I know 
in my immediate vicinity who likes beer.

If I'm using a dry yeast, dividing the package in half, or even in fourths 
is no real problem, but I like the sound of using liquid yeast.  How can I 
use liquid yeast for 1, 2 or 3 gallon batches?  I know I can use a portion 
and discard the rest, but that's EXPENSIVE.  Is there a liquid yeast 
available in small packages, or is there a good way to save Wyeast once 
it's opened?

Not worrying ... but wondering ...

Dan Graham, WA6CNN
Beer made from the Derry Air, (Derry, New Hampshire)



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Date: 18 Mar 91 15:37:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: I was talking with Pat Rhodes of The Homebrewer's Store (1-800-tap-brew) and he said that they produced their own liquid yeat-

st for $2 a bottle.  This is a far better price than Wyeast.  Has anyone 
experience with this product?

Dan Graham, WA6CNN
Beer made with the Derry Air (Derry, New Hampshire)


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Date: Mon, 18 Mar 91 15:46:56 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #598 (March 18, 1991)

Excerpts from homebrew: 18-Mar-91 Homebrew Digest #598 (March.. Are to
s. it HERE? at hpfcm (35162)

>  If you change the camshaft, then headers will make more sense since the
> engine will be able to 'breathe' better.  This means that a carburetor
> jetting change will be required, too!

I think I may get it: if I put headers on my car to increase the
pull-through on the carburetor, I could hook the output of the
carburetor draft tube to the input side of my blow-off valve on the
carboy, and if I had a long enough tether, I would then be able to drag
race, and at the same time create a positive blowoff for my primary.  

Or could I??? :-\

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Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 1991 17:28:19 CST
From: MEHTA01 at UTSW.SWMED.UTEXAS.EDU
Subject: Wort needs more than jump start???

Hi. 
	i've made a few batches of homebrew and have had really no serious
problems and certainly no worries :-) but i have a problem with a friend's
batch that i would like to get an answer to:
	i feel sort of responsible, for he got all excited about homebrew after
tasting my last batch and decided he wanted to try making some himself.
	We bought Munton's new Australian Lager extract and Amber dried malt.
The yeast was in a little packet stuck to the top of the can and we decided to
use it, against my intuition, but i figured, it's a first batch, we don't need
to go all out.... Well, the wort was ready with a SG of 1.028 and we tossed 
the dry yeast in, and NOTHING! After two days, we added some more yeast (my 
friend forgot what kind he added -- i told him to keep notes, but he wasn't 
worrying about it.. :-) )
ANyway, now, one small bubble every 15 seconds rises to the surface and that's
it!

	The funny (strange) thing is that the extract (before boiling) seemed
to fom some sort of coagulate, or aggregate like small whitish feathers (i
guess some sort of proteing aggregation phenomenon) and would begin to 
precipitate if i stopped stirring. However, after the boil, the wort looked more
like WORT and the exrtact seemed to be dispersed throughout the water (no 
aggregates or precipitates were seen...), so we decided to go ahead and use it.

	Has anyone seen the same phenomenon before? Why is this happening? No 
gypsum or Irish moss or anything other than the extract and the malt powder was
added...
	Is the wort no good? Is the yeast need a kick in their seats? How does
one kick yeast in their seats (if you can find 'em) ?

	Not worried, but wondering??? ..... 
Please send email to mehta01 at utsw.swmed.utexas.edu
or to shmehta at elbereth.rutgers.edu
hanks 
Shreefal Mehta

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Date:    Mon, 18 Mar 1991 19:12:45 EST
From: IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU
Subject: me

Could you please put me on the homebrew list?

Thanks.

Kieran O'Connor

IOCONNOR at SUNRISE (bitnet)

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #599, 03/19/91
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