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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Homebrew Digest #603 (March 25, 1991) (Crawford.WBST129)
  stone beer ("Ihor W. Slabicky")
  Colonna cappers (Jack Baty)
  Yeast Slants ("William F. Pemberton")
  calcium chloride availability? (Brian Smithey)
  Re: Grapefruit taste (Brian D. Moore)
  Re:  engine rebuilding, cams, etc. (florianb)
  collection of "yeast" on side of carboy. (Duane Smith)
  Yes, Chimay ... (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Food Processor (Tom Nolan)
  Odd growth; spruce (James P. Buchman)
  Hop volatiles (S94TAYLO)
  Yeast Culturing and GrapeFruit Beer (Mike Charlton)


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Date: 	Mon, 25 Mar 1991 05:36:09 PST
From: Crawford.WBST129 at xerox.com
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #603 (March 25, 1991)


Sorry about the Modem Speaker problem in the digest.  I saw my mistake but was
unable to stop it in time.  First engine info and now modem info, there must be
something going around.  Or maybe I've had too much (is this possible?)
homebrew.  So everybody relax, don't worry...

Sorry,

Greg

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 09:08:50 -0500
From: "Ihor W. Slabicky" <iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com>
Subject: stone beer

> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 91 14:54 EST
> From: George Bragg <George_Bragg at carleton.ca>
> Subject: Using rocks to boil the wort
> 
> Being a geology-type person, I hope I can talk semi-knowledgably about
> rocks, even if I can't tell malt from hops! :)
> The question about rocks shattering at high heat gets a resounding NO!
> If the rock does not contain water trapped in pockets that can convert to
> steam, nothing will explode.  Crystalline rocks (ie granites) are probably
> better for this, because they were formed at temperatures above 600 degrees
> a lot of time any way.  Besides, with limestones you run the risk of limey
> beer due to dissolution of the calcium carbonate - definitely not a treat!
>   As for poisonous rocks, believe it or not, the answer could well be yes.
> Many rock-forming minerals contain such unpleasantries as lead, arsenic,
> or heavy metals.  As a general rule, stay away from any pretty, metallic
> minerals.  They'll contain things like sulphides, which would help to
> sterilize the wort, but wouldn't do much for the yeast.  As I say, they
> probably use granitic rocks, due to the low content of soluble minerals.

Isn't there a beer in Europe (Germany/Austria) that is made by
using heated stones to heat the wort - the name might be 'Stein Bier'.

I haven't seen it around here much - saw a bit of it about 4 years
ago.  Tasted great - a smokey tasting lager that looked a bit reddish.
Loved it!  The beer from Brazil, Xingu, reminded me a quite a bit of
the taste, tho Xingu is a literally black lager.

Ihor

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 9:53:37 CST
From: jack at wubios.wustl.edu (Jack Baty)
Subject: Colonna cappers

   Could those of you who have used the Colonna bottle capper give me some
   information about its durability and ease of use?  From what I've seen in
   the catalogs it looks like a good design but my local supplier has had
   trouble with it.  He says that the nylon gears on his self-destructed.
   Before that, it had a very stiff action.  Is his experience common?

- -- 
Jack Baty
Division of Biostatistics   Washington University Medical School   St. Louis
jack at wubios.WUstl.edu

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Date:     Mon Mar 25 10:54:31 1991
From: "William F. Pemberton" <wfp5p at euclid.acc.virginia.edu>
Subject:  Yeast Slants


Chris Shenton asked about what yeast on slants does/should look like.

The yeast looks like white cream on the top of the agar.  It should not
look furry or fuzzy.  In some strains of yeast, there may be a slight
yellowish color.

For the agar, I use 1 tablespoon of light, dried malt extract to 1 cup
of water.  This has worked well for me, although I am considering
bumping this up just a touch (a touch mind you, like maybe a heaping
tablespoon per cup).  Currently I do not use any yeast nutrient in the
agar mix, but I do use yeast nutrient when making a starter from a
culture.

Bill


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 09:48:46 PST
From: smithey at hulder.css.gov (Brian Smithey)
Subject: calcium chloride availability?


Does anyone out there have experience using calcium chloride
for mash acidification, and/or know of a source for the stuff?
I spent some time over the weekend with my city water analysis
and Miller's TCHOHB, and I think I'd like to experiment with
this.  Gypsum is going to be out for me, as my sulfate and
sodium content are already quite high.

Thanks,
Brian
- --
Brian Smithey / SAIC, Geophysics Division / San Diego CA
uucp:	   uunet!seismo!esosun!smithey
Internet:  smithey at esosun.css.gov

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 12:05:42 CST
From: Brian D. Moore <bdm at spacsun.rice.edu>
Subject: Re: Grapefruit taste


     I, too, produced a batch with a grapefruit taste (in fact, my first).
Since I used a low-acid hop (Fuggles), and mashed from the grain (albeit not
too well), I attributed it to the taste of the hops, heightened by the low
alcohol content (due to the lousy mashing).  I have never repeated this result,
but then again I haven't mashed since then either.

     Just to change the subject, I'll pose a question: what is the current
going rate on 5 gallon tap jars?

From the Screen of Bemo
CEO, Barsoom Brewery -- one convenient location (my house)

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 13:16:52 PST
From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com
Subject: Re:  engine rebuilding, cams, etc.


I had some difficulty with a recent HBD posting.  In particular,
the nomenclature became somewhat garbled:

>> I believe the problem at the low end has something to do with
>> a process called scavenging, where the departing exhaust gasses
>> help pull in the fuel mixture. I always changed to a cam with good
>> overlap when I was doing performance machines, and never had

No, no.  The process is called "autolysis", and it occurs when the fuel 
has become depleted.  In this case, the yeast strongly overlap and eat  
each other.

>Cams with much overlap are designed for power, not low-end torque.
>High torque (RV-type) cams usually have no overlap whatsoever, at the
>expense of losing power at higher RPM's.  With no overlap, there is a
>good vacuum produced in the cylinder before the intake valve opens,
>thus, when it does, it really sucks in the fuel/air mixture.  This is
>especially important at very low RPM.  If the fuel/air velocity is
>not kept high at low RPM, then the mixture condenses on the walls of
>the intake manifold, causing stumbling and rough running (i.e. low

I agree.  Fuel/air mixture is important in the low-RPM startup phase.  
But the consequence of low air/fuel ratio is to cause hesitation in the takeoff,
and later to reduce the tendency of the yeast to stick to the bottom of the 
fermenter.  A small yeast film on the side of the cylinder is unimportant.

Let's keep 'em revvin', Jackson!
Flo

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 06:31:03 PST
From: hplabs!ardent!uunet!tc.fluke.COM!gamebird (Duane Smith)
Subject: collection of "yeast" on side of carboy.


	Quick question: The last 2 batches I brewed had yeast deposits
	or something to that effect develop on the side of the carboy
	after 4-5 days of fermentation. Its never occured before during
	the previous 10 batches. 

	Used Wyeast liquid lager yeast and it was a single stage 
	fermentation.

	I bottled the brew several days ago and at that point it tasted
	good and smelled ok.  Any thoughts.

			Not worrying..Duane Smith


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 14:18:06 PST
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at decwrl.dec.com>
Subject: Yes, Chimay ...

Thanks to all for the posted and e-mailed answers to my question on
culturing Chimay yeast.  As it happens, I was a wee mite premature: 
within hours of my sending the question off, the culture was in the
rudest of health and spirits!  I recultured anyway, and by the time
I was ready to pitch, the inoculum was MORE than ready!  I had that
reassuring "white blanket" effect within a few hours, and have had a
vigorous and healthy ferment ever since.

A few of the comments led me to believe I'd left too much out of my
initial posting, and a few just seem to need repeating, so:

From: mmattox at fws132.intel.com (Mike Mattox ~)
"			.  I think the unique characteristics
of the Chimay ales are due almost entirely to the strain of yeast
employed.  Thank you Father Pere Theodore for this gift to brewing."

Amen, Mike, Amen.  See you at the SactoBeerFest.

From: pencin at parcplace.com (Russ Pencin)
"	.... it is normal for the dregs of a bottle of Chimay to take
forever if dumped directly into a 5 gallon+ batch of beer."

Whoops.  Time to explain what I was doing.  The initial culture was
taken by boiling 4 Tbsp light DME for 20 minutes in two cups of
water, and then cooling it in its (covered) pot in a water bath. 
When it was down below 80F, I swabbed the cork and neck of the 750ml
bottle of Chimay Rouge (which I'd chilled over night to encourage
settling) with isopropyl alcohol, flamed it, opened it, and decanted
all but the last couple of inches to a pitcher.  Then I poured the
wort into the bottle, shook vigorously to aerate and break up the
yeast cake, and fitted an airlock.  So the glup-rate mentioned in my
question is in reference to a 2-cup "batch" in a 750ml "fermentor".

To reculture, I made up another batch of starter wort, adding an
unnecessary pinch of yeast nutrient, and cooled it in a 500ml
Erlenmeyer flask.  Then I shook up the bottle to get everything back
in suspension, did the swab-and-flame routine again, and dumped the
contents of the bottle into the flask.  More shaking to aerate, then
I fitted an airlock to the flask.  It seems to have worked.

Russ again:
"Your problem (IMHO) is that you expect the yeast to be as strong 
as a WYeast package... it ain't!"

That was indeed my standard of comparison.


From: dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu (Don McDaniel)
"In the recent discussions of the culturing of Chimay yeast
there have been two references to bottle dates.  I have a
bottle in my cellar that I'm saving until I'm ready to culture
the dregs.  I examined it the other day and can find no date
on it.  Is the date coded?  Where should I be looking?"

I was using a 750ml bottle with a cork closure, and the bottling
date was stamped on the cork.  The date was "09-90" (I refuse to
believe in a bottling date of "06-60"), and its performance suggests
that's recent enough, though Dave Sheehy's reference to the importance
of the time of year in which the shipment takes place sounds right 
to me.

Thanks again to all.  If it turns out well, I'll post a recipe.

= Martin A. Lodahl   			  Pacific*Bell Staff Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 17:59:24 -0500
From: nolan at lheavx.DNET.NASA.GOV (Tom Nolan)
Subject: Food Processor

Sorry if this has been around once before. I wasn't really paying
attention because I didn't have a food processor, but now I have
a Cuisinart, and my question is, can this beauty be used for
milling grains? I have in mind a partial mash of 3 lbs or so,
and I'd probably drop a pound or so into the hopper and pulse
with the blender blade until it was somewhat chopped up. Has 
anyone tried this?

        Tnx,
	Tom

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 18:31:32 -0500
From: jpb at tesuji.dco.dec.com (James P. Buchman)
Subject: Odd growth; spruce

An update to those who asked about spruce beer: we just bottled our five-
gallon batch of Special Red Bitter ale with added spruce branches. We had
filled a pint cup loosely with the smallest spruce twigs, dumped them in
the wort for the last ten minutes of boil, then fished them out. I hoped
that this would add just an accent of pine to the bitter; however, successive
samples from the carboy over the last two weeks have had an increasingly
heavy pine scent and flavor. Not sure how drinkable this will be when
bottled. Next time I'll put in 1/4 as much and work up from there.

Another disturbing item about this batch: there was a patch which looked
like grayish mold just below the neck of the carboy when we bottled.
It was about 2" in diameter; none was on or in contact with the beer
itself. Was this mold, bacteria, or something equally nasty? We bottled
anyway, taking care not to touch this patch with the siphon.
Two possible reasons for this:
	1) I removed the airlock twice during fermentation, on days 6
and 9, to take SG measurements.
	2) The corner in which I keep the (green glass) carboy is
shadowy but not totally dark; indirect sunlight can reach it.

Advice?
			Thanks,
				Jim Buchman
				jpb at tesuji.dco.dec.com at decuac.dec.com

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Date:     Mon, 25 Mar 91 21:33 EST
From: <S94TAYLO%USUHSB.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:  Hop volatiles

Does anyone out there know the process for distilling out the flavor/aroma
components from leaf hops.  I would like to try and set up a chem lab type
of distillation apparatus.  I know I can just buy hop extract, but I was an
o-chem geek in college and am curious about the possibilities.
Al Taylor
Uniformed Services University
School of Medicine
Bethesda, Maryland
s94taylor at usuhsb.bitnet

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Date: Mon, 25 Mar 91 21:46:38 CST
From: Mike Charlton <umcharl3 at ccu.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Yeast Culturing and GrapeFruit Beer

Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> asks about yeast cultures

> Yesterday, I looked again, and there is some very slight lumpiness on the
> carmel-colored agar^2. No furriness/fuzziness. No all-white patches, just
> something which looks a little different than last week. 
> 
> What do your slants look like? What dilution of extract to you mix with
> your agar? 

It depends on the yeast you are using (in my limited experience).  I have
found that it takes at least 2 weeks before I get anything really visible
on my slants.  This may be slow, but I don't know.  Wait another week and
You'll probably see a little more than you do now.  I have noticed that
different yeasts look different on the slant.  WYeast #1056 is pretty
clean and white, but a culture from a couple of bottles of Chimay Rouge
is quite biege in colour.  My brewing partner also made up a culture from
a Hogaarden beer and it is nice and white, but sitting on a clear jelly-like
substance.  We haven't tried it yet (should be interesting...), but I don't
really think it is infected.

nt at Eng.Sun.COM (Nick Thomas) asks about a beer that tastes like grapefruit
juice

> 	And a troubleshooting question - I've got a batch
> that tastes almost,
> but not quite like fresh squeezed grapefruit juice.

This used to be a common flavour with my brewing partner and me (although
he won't admit it).  I think it is a combination of fruity esters,
phenolic tastes and fusel alcohols.  We were using Doric yeast and not
racking the wort off of the trub before we pitched the yeast.  Changing from
Doric to WYeast #1056 got rid of the esters and phenolic part, but the most
dramatic change came when racking the wort off of the trub before pitching the
yeast.  I can not recommend this strongly enough!  Get a wort chiller
and chill your wort down below 70 degrees F (hopefully below 50).  Strain
off any hops and put the wort in a glass carbouy.  When the trub has
finished settling (or when wort is up to pitching temperature -- whichever
comes *last*) rack the wort into another carbouy and pitch the yeast.
I usually loose about 1/2 gallon of wort doing this.  Since I generally
top up to 5 gallons with pre-boiled water after this procedure, I
add 10% extra of everything in my recipes (works out very well).  In an
article in Zymurgy, someone mentioned that the leftover wort can be filtered
and canned (normal jam canning procedure) and used to krausen the beer.
This is an excellent idea, but one that I haven't tried yet.

              Mike

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #604, 03/26/91
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