---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  microbrewery suppliers (Joe Uknalis)
  Re: Rare Trappiste Ale (mailhost!b11!mspe5!guy)
  Astringent Beer, Pressure Barrels (hersh)
  Root Beer, Jackson, Database (BAUGHMANKR)
  Water, water everywhere; and all the drops did stink. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Home brewed pop (Ted Manahan)
  Returned mail: Service unavailable (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
  add to mail list - please
  RE: Homebrew Digest #617 (April 17, 1991) (Eric Pepke)
  Root Beer (Paul Bigelow)
  SIGNOFF HOMEBREW (x7340)" <JEFF4320%SYBIL at rti.rti.org>
  Soda Pop, Weizen yeast, Grainy beer (Mike Charlton)
  WANTED: Good brew in Boston and/or Denver (STAFINIAK)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #617 (April 17, 1991) (Raymond Degennaro)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #616 (April 16, 1991) (Dennis Hurlbut)
  mead (Brian Bliss)
  Invasion of the Yeast People??? (Bob Devine  17-Apr-1991 1328)
  Cider Making (Eric Rose)
  Sending email from US to UK (Carol Botteron)
  More on Florida Brewpubs (C.R. Saikley)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 17 Apr 91 07:31:52 EDT
From: Joe Uknalis <UKNALIS at VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      microbrewery suppliers


does anyone know of any microbrewery suppliers that are publicly
traded companies?

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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 9:10:34 CDT
From: mailhost!mailhost!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Re: Rare Trappiste Ale

    In Homebrew Digest #615, Craig Flowers writes:

> ... As luck would have it, I have had the opportunity to taste one of the 
> rarer Trappiste Ales.
>
> A recent aquaintance travels to Belgium a few times a year for work.  He
> brought back a Trappiste Ale and said the only place you could get it was
> at the Abbey.  It came in a brown bottle and had no label.  The cap is
> marked: Trappistenbier Westvleteren ABT.  I looked it up in Jackson's book
> (the first edition) and found it was made by one of the 6 Abbeys that can
> lawfully call their beers Trappist.  The abbey is run by the St. Sixtus
> Brothers and is refered to as the Westvleteren Abbey.  They brew beer
> mainly for the brothers and will sell to visiters.  The beer is not
> available away from the Abbey, although a local brewery brews another beer
> under the Brother's direction.  This was about all Jackson had.  Could
> someone look this up in Jackson's latest edition to see if there is any
> other information?
>
> For the truly curious, the side of the cap reads: ST. SIXTUSABDIJ V.Z.W. 
> B-8983 Vleteren.  I don't know if Vleteren is town but that's what I would
> guess.  I don't understand the ABDIJ connected to St. Sixtus nor whether
> B-8983 is in any way significant.

    I talked to a friend who is a Belgian national to see what he knew about
this beer/place.  He did not know the beer but he did know of Vleteren.  It
is not a town but rather an area of the Flemish part of Belgium.  His guess as
to the significance of the other letters and numbers on the top was that it is
the address of the abbey.  His parents, who still live in Belgium, are coming
over for three months in October and his father has offered to bring me up to
six beers of my choice (that he can obtain relatively easily) from over there.
He is also going to try and bring several glasses and/or mugs including a 
Chimay one if he can get it.  He will also be bringing a somewhat larger
quantity of Jupiler for his son as it is his favorite beer.  Unfortunately,
Jupiler is not the best example of the finer Belgian beers.  I have another
Belgian friend who is a rabid fan of the Trappist ales and he probably would
know more about this particular one as he hails from the Flemish section of
Belgium.  I have been unable to contact him as of yet.

 -- 
==============================================================================
 Guy D. McConnell                   |            |"All that is gold does not
 Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL.   |   These    | glitter, not all those who
 Mass Storage Peripheral Evaluation |  opinions  | wander are lost, the old
 Tape Products                      |  are mine  | that is strong does not
 Mail Stop CR1105                   |  and mine  | wither, and deep roots are
 uunet!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy           |   alone.   | not touched by the frost."
 (205)730-6289   FAX (205)730-6011  |            |                   J.R.R.T.
==============================================================================


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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 10:56:02 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Astringent Beer, Pressure Barrels


>I have been attempting all-grain brewing and have run into a problem.  In three
>attempts I have ended up with extremely husky tasting brew.  It is so bad that
>the beer is undrinkable

How much sparge water do you use?? How far do you sparge (ie till the liquid
runs completely clear)?? Perhaps you are oversparging, thus taking extra
astringency otherwise left in the grain bed along into the wort. This is a
typical problem.

Grain/Water ratios vary with brewing technique, grain used and recipe, though
the number I'm familiar with is 1qt. per pound of grain.

I used to have an Edme pressure Barrel, I spent $40 on the thing and it never
really carbonated properly, even when using CO2 capsules to inject extra
pressure. Today I wish I had just gone all the way and gotten the Cornelius
System like I have now and not wasted the $40. IMHO the 3 or 5 gallon Cornelius
System is much more reliable and durable and produces much better results, and
the extra cost was well worth it for what I consider a permanent piece of
equipment.

Jay H


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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1991 11:06 EST
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: Root Beer, Jackson, Database

Ken Flowers asked why root beer doesn't turn into soda bombs:

Yeast need not only sugar but also nutrients in order to proceed with
their fermentation duties.  Since cane sugar has hardly any nutrients, 
the yeast quit working even though there is plenty of sugar left to munch 
on.  Thus a sweet soda pop that is naturally carbonated.

Rob Caton, the Jackson book referred to is _The World Guide to Beer_,
by 'Sir' Michael his rotund self.  Available at a Walden's or 
B.Dalton's near you.  A manificent resource.  Pictures and 
descriptions of damn near every beer in the world.  Highly recommended 
to all homebrewers and a must for those preparing for the BJCP exam.

John Melby's idea of putting together a database of pubs, breweries, 
and homebrew shops is a great idea.  I'd suggest sticking it in the 
archives. Beer travelers of the world could search there first before 
departure.  We could get the information we want directly and 
immediately and save our fellow brew-buddies the task of writing the 
rather lengthy exposes of such and such a place, many times repeating
a discussion from a few months past.

 -KRB

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Date: 17 Apr 91 11:06:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Water, water everywhere; and all the drops did stink.

Brewing with the Derry air is fine, but the Derry water is the pits!

First off, much thanks to all who put up with my novice questions.  The 
first couple of batches of homebrew turned out very good.  The problem is 
that our city water has a rather strong chlorint taste, plus some other off 
tastes and odors.  I can identify these impurities in the beer, so I want 
to get a water purifier.  I'd rather start with very pure water and add 
back the minerals necessary for a good brew than continue using this city 
hydrobilge.

I am confronted with three basic types of water purification units:  
Distillation, UV/carbon block and reverse osmosis with pre and post 
filters.  I've ruled out distillation because they are more expensive and 
use a lot of electricity.  Between the other two I can't decide.  Each 
claims that the other type is no good, or not so good.  What are thoughts 
on these devices?

The carbon block with UV sterilization seems very good to me, but the 
reverse osmosis people claim that the carbon won't remove the metallic ions 
from the water.  The carbon folks claim that reverse osmosis is wasteful 
and no better than the carbon blocks.

I want the water to be as pure as possible.  What do various of y'all 
think?  If you email to me directly, I'll post a summary to the net.

Dan Graham, WA6CNN
Beer made with the Derry aire, and unfortunately, with the Derry water.





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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 08:34:26 pdt
From: Ted Manahan <tedm at hpcvcbp.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Home brewed pop

>  As I was bottling it, I started to wonder,
> what stops the yeasti-beasties from eating all that
> unfermented sugar, and blowing bottles all over my
> kitchen.

The explanation given to me is that the soda mix doesn't have enough
nutrients for the yeast to do much. Unfortunately, this is _wrong_, and
I ended up with some very highly carbonated ginger ale when I tried it.
Though there may not be enough nutrient for a good fermentation, your
soda will slowly but surely gain pressure.

You must put your soda pop in the refrigerator when it reaches a good
level of carbonation, or it will (really) pop!

Ted Manahan
tedm at hp-pcd.cv.hp.com

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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 08:54:52 PDT
From: Mailer-Daemon at Eng.Sun.COM (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable

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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 08:03:48 EDT
From: gerry.comeau at sunesc.East (GERRY COMEAU)
Message-Id: <9104171203.AA01744 at musicman.East.Sun.COM>
To: homebrew at Sun.COM
Subject: add to mail list - please

Hello out there,

If this is the right mail list can you add me to the
homebrew digest mailing?

thanks!  Gerry

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Date:    Wed, 17 Apr 1991 12:22:29 EDT
From: PEPKE at SCRI1.SCRI.FSU.EDU (Eric Pepke)
Subject: RE: Homebrew Digest #617 (April 17, 1991)

Ken Flowers asks about root beer.

The yeast in root beer will have a harder time growing than the yeast in
regular beer, due to the lack of yeast nutrients.  However, root beer still has
copious bomb-making potential.  I made one batch of ginger beer in Pepsi
bottles and came home one day to find a sticky slush of ginger beer and glass,
and splinters of glass embedded in the wall at eye height.

After your root beer has gone the minimum amount of time needed to carbonate
it, put it in the fridge.  I've found that at Florida temperatures, 12 hours
is sufficient to carbonate.  Drink it within a week or so.  

Eric Pepke                                     INTERNET: pepke at gw.scri.fsu.edu
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute  MFENET:   pepke at fsu
Florida State University                       SPAN:     scri::pepke
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052                     BITNET:   pepke at fsu

Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.

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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 13:35:59 EDT
From: Paul Bigelow <bigelow at waterloo.hp.com>
Subject: Root Beer

Ken Flowers says:
>	I just finished mixing up a batch of Root Beer
Thanks, you goaded me into finally posting something I've been
meaning to write for a long time.

>	As I was bottling it, I started to wonder,
>	what stops the yeasti-beasties from eating all that
>	unfermented sugar, and blowing bottles all over my kitchen.
Precisely the question I asked myself, and of course the answer
is "Nothing". Unless of course, you have a spare fridge to house
all your bottles at near freezing temperatures or dump something in
to kill off the yeast after you magically devine that the bottles are
sufficiently carbonated..

>	I just gotta believe that my brew supply store wouldn't sell me
>	a home bomb making kit.
Unfortunately they have. I always follow recipes religiously the
first time before modifying them. So when I mixed up a batch of
root beer from a Hires extract, I somehow forgot everything I had
ever learned about brewing. I did get a bit suspicious of the mumbo jumbo
in the recipe about adding more or less yeast depending on the temperature.
Adding yeast is essentially a binary process. Either the yeast
grows or it doesn't. And it doesn't stop until it runs out of sugar.
The recipe calls for over NINE cups of sugar. Just think what your
beer would turn out like if you primed it with that much sugar.
I spent every evening for a couple of weeks opening bottles to release
the pressure. Then I had to add more sugar before serving for sweetening.
My kids didn't get to the point of staggering around, but
they did swear it was the best root beer they ever had :-)

The recipe I came up with (and works well for me) is:
Use one cup of sugar at bottling time (5+ gallon batch).
Before serving, put 1/4 to 1/3 cup sugar per 750 ml of liquid
(depending on your sweet tooth) in a clean bottle, pour in one bottle
of root beer, shake.
Adding the sugar directly to the root beer doesn't work well
because it foams all over the place.


Paul Bigelow	bigelow at waterloo.hp.com

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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 14:02:33 EDT
From: "Jeff McCartney (x7340)" <JEFF4320%SYBIL at rti.rti.org>
Subject: SIGNOFF HOMEBREW

signoff homebrew

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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 13:15:30 CDT
From: Mike Charlton <umcharl3 at ccu.UManitoba.CA>
Subject: Soda Pop, Weizen yeast, Grainy beer

Ken Flowers talks about rootbeer:

> what stops the yeasti-beasties from eating all that
> unfermented sugar, and blowing bottles all over my
> kitchen.

NOTHING!!!  This is very important.  I have exploded more than one
batch of rootbeer in my time.  I have, however devised a fairly safe
way to make soda pop (using yeast to carbonate it).  First, use only
plastic bottles (and only new ones to boot).  Plastic bottles will
make a mess when they explode, but won't usually kill people.
Secondly use a yeast that is fairly temperature dependent (an ale
yeast is good -- bread yeast, lager yeast, champagne or wine yeast
are all out).  After you bottle, squeeze the bottles periodically
until they are hard.  Put them in the freezer.  When they get cold
enough (almost frozen), take them out and decant the liquid off of the yeast.
rebottle and store the bottles in the fridge.  I have found that this
method gets rid of most of the yeasty taste and will give you much more
control over the carbonation level.  It's well worth the extra work.

Marty Albini asks about a pure Weizen beer yeast:

MeV sells one.  I can't rememer the number, but it is mentioned in the
Zymurgy sepcial issue on yeast.

Greg asks about husky tasting yeast:

Your method basically looks OK, but I can see a few places where you might
be going wrong.  When you are applying heat (and adding hot water) to
the mash, make sure you stir like crazy.  As long as you get no hot spots
above 168 degrees F, you will be OK as far as huskiness goes.  Also, I
reommend a mash out as this will make your sparge go a little easier.
The next possibility is that you are oversparging.  A final pH of 6.0 is
a bit high.  Fix mentions that the industry standard is around 5.8
(Warning: possible faulty memory on this point :-)).  The two batches I have
tested have a final pH of around 5.5 (I usually get very good extraction).
Finally, you may be getting grains in the boil.  I recommend recirculating
your sparge until it starts to come clear (although, watch that final
pH, you don't want it to get too high).  You also have to watch out for
leaching stuff out of the grains that will adversly affect head retention.
As long as you keep the recirculation below 2 gallons, this should be
no problem.

                 Mike Charlton

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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 14:22 EST
From: STAFINIAK at hermes.psycha.upenn.edu
Subject: WANTED: Good brew in Boston and/or Denver

I'm relatively new to this and apologize in advance if this has been requested
and answered already.  I'm traveling soon to Boston and Denver and would like
info on good brewpubs, micros, etc. Any suggestions?

					STAFINIAK at HERMES.PSYCHA.UPENN.EDU

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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 11:24:38 PDT
From: degennar%bmsr9.usc.edu at usc.edu (Raymond Degennaro)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #617 (April 17, 1991)

please remove me from the list

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Date:         Wed, 17 Apr 91 11:23:16 MST
From: Dennis Hurlbut <ASDJH%ASUACAD.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Homebrew Digest #616 (April 16, 1991)

IN RESPONSE TO BILL CRICK"S REQUEST FOR INFORMATION ON REMOVING OXIDATION FROM
COPPER, TRY ACETIC ACID (VINEGAR).  IF YOU LET THE COPPER SOAK, IT SHOULD REMOV
E THE OXIDATION.I"M TRYING TO SEND THIS MESSAGE,BUT WITH DIFFICULTY. IF THERE
ARE MULTIPLE COPIES COMING THROUGH, TELL ME.

Dennis Hurlbut
Department of Anthropology
Arizona State University
Tempe, AZ  85287

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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 14:13:01 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: mead


I just made a 6 gallon batch of orange ginger mead:

15 lb clover honey
juice from 1 orange (because I had no citric acid)
6 oz grated ginger
1 oz halletauer hops

combined above ingredients, brought to a boil.
took out a little wort, cooled down, added champagne yeast
and shook.  boiled the remaining wort 30 min.
added another .5 oz halletauer hops. boiled 30 min.
turned off heat.  cut 4-5 lbs of oranges in half, and squeezed
into the wort.  Threw the hallves right in after squeezing.
let sit 15 min.  sparged into cold water, while removing the
oragne halves and squeezing the last bit out (with clean 
hands - very hot - ouch!).  added yeast starter when cool.
I got a S.G. of 1.088 at 85F.  It's been fermenting like
a mad dog for almost a week now.  I'm not going to rack it
to a secondary until I slows down a little - Nothing's
settled out (except for a little bit of yeast) with the
rapid fermentation constantly stirring it up. 

Anyway, hope this helps anybody who wants to try making
mead get the S.G right. btw, I practically had an orgasm eating
the last bit of fruit out of the hot, honey-soaked orange
halves after I was done.

brian


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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 12:27:30 PDT
From: Bob Devine 17-Apr-1991 1328 <devine at cookie.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Invasion of the Yeast People???

For the second time recently, after I gave a beer novice a bottle
of my homebrew, they became very interested in brewing for themselves.

Now that got me thinking.  If anyone ever read "The Selfish Gene" by
Richard Dawkins, it may explain the reason for a sudden desire to
be a homebrewer.  In the book, Dawkins posits that it is really the
genes that control everything and human beings are nothing more than
a gene's way of making more genes.

Therefore it seems entirely reasonable that the yeasts used in homebrewing
have mutated to control our very thoughts.  Right now there are millions,
nay, trillions! of yeasts inside your body telling you to MAKE MORE BEER!

On the other hand, maybe they just liked my beer....

Bob ;-)

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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 15:36:39 EDT
From: Eric Rose <rose at aecom.yu.edu>
Subject: Cider Making

Howdy everyone.  I'm new both to this list and to homebrewing.

When I was in England a while back, I tried several different brands of hard
sparkling cider, and loved them all.  The only brand name I remember was 
"Strongbow."  They were all very very dry, and really tasty.

I'm writing to inquire whether anyone has a recipe  for such stuff, or, even
better, has made it themselves.  Around September here in the Northeast,
you can get excellent freshly-pressed apple cider from local orchards, so
I thought I might try making some then.

Peace,
Eric Rose.

- -- 

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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 18:13:04 -0400
From: botteron at bu-it.bu.edu (Carol Botteron)
Subject: Sending email from US to UK


This is for anyone who is trying to send email between the US and the
UK, especially those who have tried to reach Morgiana P. Halley
[Ye Olde Batte] at  EG2MH at primea.sheffield.ac.uk

She asked me to forward the following message:

If this gets through to you, I have a suggestion for your other
British mail, in fact, two suggestions.
1]  Reverse all commands to the right of the  at  sign.  The Brits
    like to use the opposite side from the rest of the world.
    (Like driving, you know).  So, if it's given to you as
    ABC at XYZ.ZXY.ZXY     send to   ABC at ZXY.ZXY.XYZ
2]  If the above doesn't work, look for a relay or link path to
    send it through. EAN is the one I use from here, but I can't
    remember the ones I used while in North America.

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Date: Wed, 17 Apr 91 19:08:32 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: More on Florida Brewpubs



From: aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg)


<Miami has two brewpubs - Zum Alten Fritz, in downtown Miami near the
<Omni, and another whose name I cannot remember, in Ft. Lauderdale right
<on New River.  There is nothing in the phone book listed for "Florida
<Brewing Co." 

The pub in Ft. Lautertun is probably :

	River Walk Brewery
	132 Isle of Venice
	Ft. Lautertun, FL  33301
	305-463-2337

The records we have at the Celebrator Beer News indicate that there
is a Florida Brewing Co/Garlic Grill & Brewpub at :

	1840 NE 4th Ave
	Miami, FL  33132
	305-358-5731

I spoke with these folks today (4/17), it turns out that this place and
Zum Alten Fritz are the same. Directory assistance has both the Florida 
Brewing Co, and Garlic Grill & Brewpub listed at the above number. ZAF's
number is 305-374-7610. I don't know why they maintain three distinct names,
and two phone numbers
 - -- 


From: jmellby at skvax1.csc.ti.com (JRM  at  214/575-6774)


<So what I want to do is create a more formal database that I can query
<asking things like
<what pubs are in San Jose
<what microbrewerys are in San Francisco or in the 808 area code
<what beer stores are near Tulsa
<and so on.

<I already have a large amount of semi-formatted data (around a 100K
<annotated list of pubs including notes and comments from the net).
<Has anyone else already got such a program?  Would anyone else be
<willing to contribute their list of pubs for such an effort?

Sounds like a great idea, John. I'd be happy to give you access to the 
Celebrator's records.  We've talked about creating such a database, but
thusfar it's only talk.

But alas, we stray from the topic of homebrew. So I pose a question :

	Does S. Delbruckii have oxygen requirements similar to
	standard brewing strains, like S. Cerevisiae and S. Uvarum ??

I'll be making a wheat beer soon, and would like to learn more about
the metabolism of S. Delbruckiiiii. If I use a mixed strain, will lots
of O2 favor one strain over the others?? Can a pure strain of S. Delbruckii
be used satisfactorily?? Any input would be appreciated.

A friend recently returned from Munich with a bottle of Amertaller 
Weizen which is unequivocally the finest libation in the Universe 
(beats a Pan-Galactic-Gargle-Blaster hands down!!). So I plan to 
culture the dregs.The brewery is very tiny, so I doubt they filter 
out the Delbruckii and then add a different strain to bottle condition. 
This is how the large German breweries make HefeWeizen (according to 
Dave Miller - me thinks). 

Cheers,
CR Saikley 
Associate Editor - Celebrator Beer News



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #618, 04/18/91
*************************************
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---