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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  The Invasion of the Yeast Critters (TSAMSEL)
  Re: Brepubs in Boston (April 18, 1991) (Steve Thornton)
  Re: WANTED: Good brew in Boston and/or Denver (Eric S. Maniloff)
  Pub Database  (hersh)
  Root Beer question (Bob Clark - Sun Engineering)
  Eastern Washington is great, honest! (R. Bradley)
  Re: Soda Pop and exploding bottles (Dave Sheehy)
  Infected batch (Darren Evans-Young)
  Re:   Jackson Book? (boubez)
  Re: More on Florida Brewpubs (a.e.mossberg)
  Homebrew archive server (Tom Fitzgerald)
  looking to imitate Celebrator/Salvator (mbharrington)
  Wiezen yeast (Bill Crick)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date:    Thu, 18 Apr 1991 7:17:43 EDT
From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV
Subject: The Invasion of the Yeast Critters

  This scenario (with Dawkins' THE SELFISH GENE) was covered in sci fi in
the late 60s/early 70s in Frank Herbert's THE SANTAROGA BARRIER. Smart
microbes in Northern Califa! (Oh so that's why there are so many micros
in the PacNW!!) (;-{)
   Ted (TSAMSEL at USGSRESV.BIT)

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Date:         Thu, 18 Apr 91 09:25:07 EST
From: Steve Thornton <NETWRK at HARVARDA.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Brepubs in Boston (April 18, 1991)

STAFNIAK at HERMES.PSYCHA.UPENN.EDU asked about brewpubs in the Boston area.
We are not as fortunate as oh, say, Seattle in thsi regard, but I do
heartily recommend the Cambridge Brewing Company near Kendall Square, in
Cambridge, especially their porter (yum). Commonwealth Brewery near
North Station, in Boston, is not so hot, though, imho. They vary
tremendously in quality from day to day, it seems.

Steve

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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 91 10:12:02 -0600
From: Eric S. Maniloff <eman at sashimi.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: WANTED: Good brew in Boston and/or Denver


In Boston, try the Commonwealth Brewery.  You could also try the Cambridge
Brewery, but the commonwealth has better beer.  Make sure to try the stout
at the commonwealth!

In Denver try the Wynkoop.  Not quite as good as you'll find in Boston, but
it's still worth a visit.

Eric Maniloff
eman at boulder.colorado.edu 

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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 91 12:56:44 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Pub Database 


> We could get the information we want directly and 
>immediately and save our fellow brew-buddies the task of writing the 
>rather lengthy exposes of such and such a place, many times repeating
>a discussion from a few months past.

There is a benefit to these things being reposted (as Pat Baker of Crosby &
Baker, & The Beer Bar Atlas fame can attest) regularly. That is that the
Brewpub/Beerbar industry is rather fluid :-). If a database is made, it needs
to be updated. That can be a bit of work. Repostings have the advantage of
being kept up to date in a distributed manner (ie lots of people doing it), and
probably have broader coverage. Now I'm not against the idea, just pointing out
some of the cons (since people have already mentioned the pros).

I personally have just made a directory where I keep a file for each geographic
area, and concatenate new info onto the old files. If this thing does get going
I'll gladly send you what i have to date.

Good Luck, keep us posted.

JaH


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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 91 09:57:16 PDT
From: Bob.Clark at Eng.Sun.COM (Bob Clark - Sun Engineering)
Subject: Root Beer question

I've never made root beer, nor have I even seen a recipe for it, however,
my girlfriend wants me to make a batch to add to the fridge for our
summer parties.

Is the only purpose of yeast and fermentation to carbonate the root beer?
Since I have a keg system, couldn't I just mix up the apropriate amounts
of sugar/syrup/water/?? and carbonate it artificially?

	Bob C.

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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 91 14:39:26 CDT
From: bradley at dehn.math.nwu.edu (R. Bradley)
Subject: Eastern Washington is great, honest!

My sincere apologies to any Spokane/Coeur d'Alaine area residents
who may have taken offence at my my crack about EWU in #615.  For the
record, I really liked what I saw of the area, Spokane seems to be
a truly fine town,  I really liked the Fort Spokane Brewery (I even
bought the sweatshirt :-) - their Red Alt is very scrumptious indeed,
and I actually do wish I'd got the job.

Craig Flowers - who has written me personally and apologized; his
information was not so much false as long out of date - claimed that
Northwestern is dry.  Not only is that false, but I somehow felt that,
being piggy-backed with the statement about Evanston, it was being
held up as something out of the ordinary.

In the 19 months I've lived in the USA, I've visited a lot of universities
to attend conferences, give talks and, most recently, interview for
permanent faculty jobs.  Every state school has been dry.  EWU is
only distinguished by being the only one of this number that I visited
for reasons of a job interview.

The drinking age is 21 in the USA, and many (most?) undergraduates
are less than that.  I guess the dry schools see this policy as a way to
limit their liability.  It certainly doesn't curtail the drinking itself
any more than Prohibition did.

As I understand it, different states had various drinking ages from
18 through 21 until quite recently, but were forced to toe the line at
21 by some recent federal legislation that predicated federal money
for highways on a drinking age of 21.

The way I figure it, 19 and 20 year olds are going to find a way to
drink no matter what the law says.  I'd rather they could do it in
pubs where they just might walk or take public transportation than
have them doing it at tailgate parties which essentially guarantee
drinking and driving.

I've lived in Quebec (drinking age 18), England (17? 18?) and
Ontario (19). Being foreign parts, the moral standards were of
course quite low :-)   Nonetheless, I would be surprised to hear
that the drinking and driving statitics are any worse there than
they are in a typical State of the Union.

What do you suppose motivates the legislators in this country?

Rob Bradley
(bradley at math.nwu.edu)

P.S.  I never received a copy of #615 (Monday).  Could some kind soul
out there send me a copy?  Thanks a lot.  Rob

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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 91 13:03:59 PDT
From: Dave Sheehy <dbs at hprnd.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Soda Pop and exploding bottles


As we have seen in the last several posts the general consensus seems to be
that making soda pop is an exercise is demolitions manufacture. My experience
however has been to the contrary. I have some bottles of home made soda pop
that have been sitting at room temperature (which can range up in the high 70s
in the summer) for over a year. Why do I not have the problems that many others
have had? I've thought over my procedure and think that I may have a reasonable
hypothesis. My procedure is:

        1. Put the required quantity of water (4 gals.) in my brewpot and
           heat. I may or may not bring this to a boil depending on how
           patient/distracted I am that day but the temperature definitely
           gets into the sanitation range ( > 165 F).

        2. Start the recommended amount of yeast (1/4 tsp) separately in a bowl
           of warm sugar solution.

        3. Add the entire quantity of sugar (8 cups) and soda extract to the 
           water. Dissolve the sugar into the water and allow the solution to 
           cool to, oh say somewhere in the 80s.

        4. Add the yeast starter to the soda solution and mix well.

        5. Bottle immediately (do NOT pass GO, do NOT collect $200 :-).

        6. It commonly takes 3-4 weeks to carbonate. It's really much better
           after several months in the bottle. The flavors blend or something,
           it's a very noticeable effect.

Why does this procedure not cause problems? Here's what I think may be going 
on. The commonly offered explanation for why bottles of soda pop do not 
overcarbonate and explode is that the yeast is limited by available nutrients.
I think this statement is true but that it is only part of the answer. In my
procedure I heat the water up to a high temperature driving off any dissolved
oxygen in the process. This limits the aerobic phase (and therefore the 
reproductive stage) of the yeast. This limits the effective population of 
yeast. With a limited population of yeast you are less likely to overcarbonate.
In this scenario, the pitching rate becomes a factor. If you pitch a large 
initial population of yeast, you will get overcarbonation. In fact, the only
time I've had bottles explode (and they blew up in the vegetable crisper of my
refrigerator by the way) was when I exceeded the recommended pitching rate of
1/4 tsp. Therefore, I disagree with the poster who maintains that pitching is
a binary function. I believe pitching rate is significant in this situation.

I got a whole load of pretty vehement email about exploding bottles about a 
year ago when I posted about an experiment in making psuedo low cal soda 
pop (I still haven't tried it but it involves using fructose which is 80% 
sweeter than sucrose, I think you can figure out the rest of my plan).
Since I hadn't had the problems that these people had I've been thinking alot
about my procedure and why I don't have the same problems. This is what I came
up with. So, what do y'all think?

Dave Sheehy
dbs at f.rose.hp.com
(916) 785-4012


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Date:         Thu, 18 Apr 91 15:02:43 CDT
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Infected batch


I've got a batch of bitter in my secondary that has what looks like
white strings on the surface.  You have to look closely or with a light
to see it.  I suspect the lactobacillus bug has got me.  Should I dump
this batch down the sink and start over?  Or is there any hope?
I'm sure the culprit is my counterflow chiller.  I'm going back to bleach
solution for sanitation instead of boiling water.  I never had problem
until I switched to boiling water.  Suggestions?

Darren

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Darren Evans-Young, Sys Prg                  BITNET: DARREN at UA1VM.BITNET  |
| The University of Alabama                  Internet: DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU  |
| Seebeck Computer Center                       Phone: (205)348-3988 / 5380 |
| Tuscaloosa, Alabama  35487-0346                      (205)348-3993 FAX    |
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*

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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 91 18:30:49 EDT
From: boubez at bass.rutgers.edu
Subject: Re:   Jackson Book?


>From: Rob <C08926RC at WUVMD.Wustl.Edu>

>In the last digest I saw reference to a book by Jackson.  From the
>post it appears that this is an directory of beers or something.
>Could someone give me more info on this book, such as the title, etc?

What I have is: "The Simon&Schuster Pocket Guide to BEER", by Michael
Jackson. I got it when I bought his "Beer Hunter" videos. It claims to be
"the connoisseur's companion to over 1000 beers of the world". It's a quick
guide to a lot of beers, with a pretty decent index at the end. I like it
very much. ISBN for it is 0-671-66225-2.

>|        Rob Caton        |                      |  Disclaimer:    |

toufic

            R 2 4
            |_|_|      Toufic Boubez
            | | |      boubez at caip.rutgers.edu
            1 3 5      CAIP Center, Rutgers University



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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 91 23:01:29 GMT
From: aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg)
Subject: Re: More on Florida Brewpubs

CR Saikley writes: 

>The pub in Ft. Lautertun is probably :
(Ft. Lauderdale - sic)

>	River Walk Brewery
>	132 Isle of Venice
>	Ft. Lautertun, FL  33301
>	305-463-2337

Yea, that's it. River Walk Brewery...

>The records we have at the Celebrator Beer News indicate that there
>is a Florida Brewing Co/Garlic Grill & Brewpub at :

>	1840 NE 4th Ave
>	Miami, FL  33132
>	305-358-5731

That's Zum Alten Fritz alright..

>I spoke with these folks today (4/17), it turns out that this place and
>Zum Alten Fritz are the same. Directory assistance has both the Florida 
>Brewing Co, and Garlic Grill & Brewpub listed at the above number. ZAF's
>number is 305-374-7610. I don't know why they maintain three distinct names,
>and two phone numbers

They are very strange. The proprietress is a Cuban-German woman who
reportedly looks for asexuality in her staff. Zum Alten Fritz is the
over-priced german restaurant. She opened the brewpub about a year or
year and a half ago, and was immedietely shut down for serving beer
before the arrival of the license... The "Garlic Grill" is adjoining,
and serves, obviously, nothing but foods with garlic. It opened a couple
months ago.

aem


- -- 
aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu .......................................................
Percentage of U.S. Senators and Representatives who have been in office for more
than four years: 73 ; Percentage of Politburo members who have been in office
for more than four years: 25				- Harper's Index 1-89

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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 91 17:56:51 EDT
From: fitz at wang.com (Tom Fitzgerald)
Subject: Homebrew archive server

The homebrew archive server at Wang is alive again, after being dead for
most of a year.  To pick up individual homebrew digest issues, send a
message to  archive-server at wang.com  that looks like:

send homebrew <issue1> <issue2> ...

and it will send you back those issues, one per mail message.  Sending a
message containing:

send homebrew index

will get you an index of the stuff we've got online.  A message with just
the word "help" will get you a help file.  In all cases, your message's
subject is ignored.

Let me know if there are any problems, please!

- ---
Tom Fitzgerald   Wang Labs        fitz at wang.com
1-508-967-5278   Lowell MA, USA   ...!uunet!wang!fitz

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Date: Thu, 18 Apr 91 17:37:28 PDT
From: mbharrington at UCSD.EDU
Subject: looking to imitate Celebrator/Salvator

Two of my favorite beers are Celebrator and Salvator, and I have partly
taken up homebrewing to save some money, as my local store sells these
beers for $2 a bottle.  (Plus, homebrewing is great fun!)  Anyhow,
I'd like to make a doppelbock with a minimum chance of goofing
it up.  Perhaps someone could recommend a kit?

Thanks!

 -Matt H
Matthew B. Harrington                        Internet: matt at ucsd.edu
University of California at San Diego        Recycle or Die.
Biophysics                                   Think! It's not illegal yet.

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Date: 	Wed, 17 Apr 1991 13:35:29 -0400
From: hplabs!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick)
Subject: Wiezen yeast

Re; the request for wiess beer yeast S. Delbruckii:

Mev does a pure S.Delbruckii culture, Mev 033. I've got a batch of 
FrancenWiezzen brewing with it now. It definitely gives a clove tang to
the  beer.
 
The Yeast Special issue of Zymrgy mentioned the Wyeast 3056 as being a blend,
and the Mev 033 as being pure delbruckii. They also mentioned ONE of the 
following, but I forget which: Wyeast has a pure Delbruckii culture, OR
Mev also has a blend.

As far as getting the Mev yeast, they do have a US distributer, but I don't 
know who. I Canada, they presently don't have a distributor.

Mev's address is: P.O. Box 123 
                  Waterloo, Ontario, 
                  Canada. 
                  N2J 3Z9
           Phone 519-742-7227

Note they are moving in a month or so to a bigger facility.

I get my Mev yeasts from: The Hop Stop
                           1661 Montreal Rd.
                           Ottawa Ontario
                           Canada
                           K1Y 6N6

                           613-748-1374

Hop Stop will do UPS mail orders if you want.

Hope this helps.

Greg: Re the Husky flavor: I don't think heating the thick part will hurt, as
                          decoction mashing biols the thickest third of the mash
                         In may not be the mash? Too hot a temperature removing
                        tannins results in an Astringent taste. Is that what 
                       you mean by Husky? I know the Zymrgy troubleshooting
                      issue lists a taste specifically as "husky"> I forget
                     what the cause is. I believe they list Astringency 
                    as a separate flavor characteristic.

Looking at my own posts, I notice a lot of character reversals that I don't
seem to notice when I proofread. Blame ti on being left handed! If you 
can't understand some words, try flipping character pairs around.
Os there a Unix spel checker? How do I use ti?

Bill Crick Brewuis, Egro Smu!



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #619, 04/19/91
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