---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Fermentation rates for small batches (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #626 (April 30, 1991) ("George D. Holmes")
  Mac brewing software (Darryl Richman)
  15 gallon batch without dilution? (Chris Shenton)
  More questions about plastic bottles. (BRP)
  cooking, nuclear, l t eff ("KATMAN.WNETS385")
  Problems getting Beer to AHA (wrt: USPS/UPS) (Chris Shenton)
  Arithmetic (dbreiden)
  Re: wort chilling (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Oops! (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  glassware (mcnally)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #626 (April 30, 1991) (William (Boyce) Byerly)
  more on carbonation after long fermentation (Chip Hitchcock)
  Fermentation rates for small batches.  (Carl West x4449)
  Fermentation rates for small batches, etc.. (hersh)
  Re: Fermentation rates in small batches (Brian Bliss)
  Hunter, extraction temps (Ken Johnson)
  cheap malt extract (Brian Bliss)
  HB Digest No. 626 ("John E. Lenz")
  Re: Pasadena Pubs (Dave Huyink)
  Pitching (IOCONNOR)
  fruit fermentation in HB (Jeff Chambers)
  Small batches, beer spheres, brewpubs (SU0751A)
  should it take 16 days in the fermentor? (mbharrington)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tuesday, 30 Apr 1991 07:26:26 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Fermentation rates for small batches

>From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>

>Last Wednesday, I put in a two gallon batch of Irish Stout.
>Using a Whitbread ale yeast, fermentation was off to a good
>start in just a few hours.  By Saturday, the glug rate in the
>airlock had dropped to about two a minute.  By this morning,
>(Monday), it had dropped to about one every three minutes.  I
>would expect a five gallon batch to take a couple of weeks or
>more to drop to this level of carbon dioxide production.

Hmmm, most of my 5 gallon batches drop to that level of CO2
production in about three to four days.  Maybe I just ferment too
warmly, though.  IMHO, your experience with 5 gallon batches
seems more unusual than your 2 gallon batch.

I suppose it depends on the yeast, the temperature, and the
amount of unfilled space in the fermenter (I do the
primary ferment in a 7 gallon acid carboy).

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date:         Tue, 30 Apr 91 08:19:49 CDT
From: "George D. Holmes" <GHOLMES at UAFSYSA.UARK.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Homebrew Digest #626 (April 30, 1991)

In reply to Matthew B. Harrington's request for a source for LARGE beer mugs,
steins, etc., try a mail order company by the name of "Crate and Barrel".  I do
not have their address, but you could try 1-800 information, or look in your
phone book to see if there's a local store.  We receive a catalog every month
or so, showing a wide selection of kitchen ware, including beer mugs of varying
sizes and shapes.  They even have the "dimpled" English pub mugs!  I bought a
large (18 oz. capacity) glass mug last year, which has the all important large
handle which keeps my hand from warming the beer.  I'l post the address etc.,
if there's any interest.

George D. Holmes
Fulbright College of Arts and Sciences
University of Arkansas
BITNET: GHOLMES at UAFSYSA

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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 07:15:53 -0700
From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
Subject: Mac brewing software

Kieran's (IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU) posting yesterday reminded me that
I've been remiss in not passing along my recipe formualtion spreadsheet
for Excel on the Mac.  I built this a couple years ago and almost turned
it into a product for sale.  But I decided that I needed to do a lot more
with it to turn it into a commercial product, and grinding Excel macros
is definitely not for me.  I long ago uploaded it onto CompuServe, but
I'd like to post it into one or more of the ftp sites.  How?  Thanks
in advance!  Just to whet your thirst, this spreadsheet allows you to
select what units you use (grams v ounces, kgs v lbs, etc.) and then
has a water adjustment calculator, beer color and extract estimator, and
a hop bitterness feature.  There are adjustable fugde factors like
your brewery's extract rate and pellet and leaf hop utilization.  Color
is estimated based on the length of the mash.  There are tables of grain
characteristics which you can update or add new entries to.  Included
in the package are the macro sheet, a blank worksheet, a half-done
manual, and a couple sample spreadsheets.  If only someone would
email me the way to upload this...

		--Darryl Richman

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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 10:15:11 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: 15 gallon batch without dilution?

On Mon, 29 Apr 91 10:02:56 CDT, bradley at dehn.math.nwu.edu (R. Bradley) said:

Rob> In #625, Chris shenton, talking about a 15 gal. Busch keg, says:
> ... The third, we've figured how
> to remove the valve so we can clean it, and are thinking of doing a 10
> gallon strong batch, diluting to 15 gallons, and serving at a party.

Rob> Augh!!!!  The dreaded practice of high-original-gravity brewing, bane
Rob> of the Canadian brewing industry
Rob> since the mid-seventies.  Another example of the triumph of accounting
Rob> over sound brewing practice.  It increases the throughput of a brewery,
Rob> but adding water (carbonated, in the case ot the Canadian biggies)
Rob> means raw, watery beer and oxidation.

Rob> Chris: do evrything you can to remove the oxygen from the water
Rob> you'll be using to dilute the beer.  

Anyone have any suggestions on how to boil up 15 gallons? My equipment
includes a 10 gallon stainless pot and a 15 gallon keg-kettle, but the
latter can really only handle 12-13 gallons of boiling wort; I suppose I
could split the batch between the two...

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Date:    Tue, 30 Apr 91 10:22:58 EDT
From: BRP at maine.maine.edu
Subject: More questions about plastic bottles.

With regard to the recent question (#625) about using 2-liter
plastic bottles for beer:

>I have heard from relatively reliable sources (master of my brewing
>club) that the plastic 2-liter bottles which are used to contain
>carbonated beverages are not appropriate for storing alcoholic
>beverages (such as home-brew).  The issue is that the alcohol causes
>some of the plastic bottle to be dissolved into the drink, making the

>drink slightly poisonous.

In addition to information about the above, I would also like to
know:

Does any significant amount of CO2 diffuse out of the bottle and
conversely can O2 diffuse into the bottle?

Are there any differences between the 2-liter, 1-liter and 16 oz.
bottles (other than the amount of beer they will hold)?

I have been using these bottles for about 6 months with no obvious
effects or loss of pressure, but would be very interested in
hearing from someone in the know.

Bryan Pearce
University of Maine
(brp at maine)

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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 14:22 GMT
From: "KATMAN.WNETS385" <6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753 at mcimail.com>
Subject: cooking, nuclear, l t eff



     Date: 30-Apr-91      Time: 10:24 AM       Msg: EXT00978

Hello -
   Cooking with Beer - The current issue (June) of _Playboy_ has a section on
cooking with beer that calls for varied types of beer. One recipe is for ice
cream made with porter or stout. They also have an interview with MacNeil and
Lehrer (Plug Plug:)
   Alcoholism and Beer - This is a really touchy topic. The amount of alcohol
that would make me sick drunk would be a drop in the bucket for someone else. I
am small, female and have an hereditarily low tolerance for alcohol or other
intoxicating substances (thanks mom). My friend drinks at least four bottles of
beer (homebrew or good micro/import stuff) on weeknights, and more on weekends.
He is a father and husband, around 6' 1" and stocky, and recently passed a big
exam and received a promotion in his job (mechanical engineer). Maybe I'm being
naive, but I think those people who make beer or wine have a different type of
personality than those who have addictive (alcoholic) personalities.
   Nuclear Carboys - My boyfriend is a grad student and works in a medical
research lab. They use both HCl and radioactive materials. He has no idea what
those messages on your carboy meant, they resemble nothing he has ever seen.
There is no danger from any HCl itself, it is in your stomach, Coca-Cola, etc.
He did not know if perhaps some other ingredient (like Benzene, etc) was or was
not used to purify your HCl.

Lee Katman == Thirteen/WNET == New York, NY

=Do not= use REPLY or ANSWERBACK, I can not receive mail in that fashion.
Please send all mail to
INTERNET katman.wnets385%wnet_6790753 at mcimail.com
OR
MCIMAIL EMS: wnet 6790753  MBX: katman.wnets385



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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 10:31:36 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Problems getting Beer to AHA (wrt: USPS/UPS)

Last week there were a couple articles from people who had their beer
returned by UPS or the USPS. I'd like to get `reprints' and follow-up
information  on these and any other cases you know of.

If the USPS won't send beer, I'd like to push the folks in government to
change that. I live on Capitol Hell [sic] and a neighbor (and recent
convert to homebrewing) works with the powerbrokers. Between the two of us,
I think we could get things changed.

If it's just ignorance of the legality of shipping beer by the USPS, then
maybe we can get a copy of the law, photocopy it and tape it to boxes which
are being sent to competitions, etc.

If it's UPS who won't send it, then there's not much we can do except to
petition them.



Any and all comments appreciated. Comments on the legality and policy of
the USPS and UPS should ideally be backed up by references or somesuch,
rather than speculation; I'd hate to talk to these people without sound
facts...

Thanks.

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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 09:41:44 -0500
From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Subject: Arithmetic

> Numerologists take note: 625 is 5 cubed.  In any case, it's a great
> milestone for the HBD.

Um, yes it is a milestone.  But 5 cubed?  ummm.  No.
Methinks Mr. R. Bradley has been relaxing a bit too much :-)

- --Danny

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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 09:14:55 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: wort chilling

Mark Andrews writes:
>There's been a lot of discussion of late about wort chilling. Well, this past
>weekend I tried something. I started with 5 gallons of bottled water. I
>refrigerated 3 gallons while allowing the other two to stay at room temp.
>I used one of the room temp. gallons for my boil. When I was ready to mix
>everything, I remove the 3 chilled gallons from the fridge, poured them into
>my primary, added the remaining gallon of room temp water and then poured
>in the boil. A couple of stirs of the resulting wort gave a temperature of 85
>degrees F. 

I used to do something just like this before I built my wort chiller.  I have
several additions to your procedure, Mark.  I pre-boiled four gallons of
tapwater (Palos Hills water tastes pretty good out of the tap), poured it
into gallon plastic jugs and chilled overnight.  In the morning, I took
one of the four jugs and put it in the freezer.  That evening, I would brew
using 1.5 gallons of tapwater in the kettle. The freezer jug water was used
to get a good cold break after the boil (sometimes I would have to crack
up a layer of ice that had formed in the jug).  The three refridgerator
jugs were splashed into the primary.  The final temperature was somewhere
in the 70-75F range.

Several things to keep in mind: 1. boiling the water will kill or otherwise
beat-up-on any nasties in your water (yes, even bottled water has nasties),
2. boiling drives off chlorine your water dept. adds, and 3. boiling
drives off oxygen (which means you need to aerate your water or finished
wort before pitching).

So why use a wort chiller?  Well, if you are doing all-grain, you have
little choice.  If you are doing extract, then there are still some
advantages: 1. better cold break, 2. better hop utilization (a higher
gravity boil will give you less hop utilization), 3. if using my above
mentioned procedure, you don't raise the temperature of the inside of
your fridge to 60F with four gallons of boiling water (I had noticed
a correlation between spoiled milk and brewing sessions).  By the way,
better cold break is another argument for immersion versus counterflow
chillers.

Al.
korz at ihlpl.att.com


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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 09:19:37 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Oops!

I wrote:
>better cold break is another argument for immersion versus counterflow

What I meant to say is that if you use an immersion chiller, it is easier
to dispose of your cold break trub -- you just leave it in the kettle
as you transfer to the primary.  A counterflow chiller will still give
you the same cold break, but you have to filter it out of your wort
somehow.
Al.


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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 08:20:33 -0700
From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Subject: glassware


Matt Harrington asks about glassware.  I can suggest a couple of things.
(Note that my interest lies in beer-brand-name or brewery-name labeled
glasses and to some extent mugs.)  Call distributors of beers for
which you'd like glassware.  You might try Merchant du Vin in Seattle.
Manneken-Bruxelle in Austin used to exist, and had a lot of Belgian
glassware; they may not anymore.   Sierra Nevada also sells some nice
glassware.

If you're ever up in the Bay area, there are a couple places you might
want to check out.  First, there's Harry's Bavarian Deli in San Jose.
Harry has an amazing collection of German glassware for sale.  Must be
seen to be believed.  In Morgan Hill, there's Let's Brew, a homebrew
supply/pub/cookware/coffee/tea shop, and they carry a small but nice
selection of glassware (got my gold Chimay glasses there).

On a recent vacation in Munich, my wife suggested that we look for 
glassware.  "Right" I said; I speak little useful German, and I figured
it would be impossible to track down anyplace in a city the size of 
Munich.  I mocked her mercilessly for having such a silly idea as we
were strolling about west of Marienplatz, when we turned a corner and
came across the (a?) "Glaswerk" store.  Lots and lots and lots of 
glassware.  Amazing.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 11:24:00 -0400
From: wbb at cs.duke.edu (William (Boyce) Byerly)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #626 (April 30, 1991)

Please unsubscribe me.  I love it, but I'm a grad student, and
I have about 300K of unread issues piling up.

	Boyce

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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 10:41:49 EDT
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: more on carbonation after long fermentation

   I have a doppelbock waiting to reach drinkable age. It was fermented
eight weeks in primary (it took that long to get below ~30 sec/glug, then
quit) and bottled. I tried a bottle at one week and it had a \\wonderful//
head.
   I suspect that carbonation depends less on time per se and more on two
other factors: sedimentation rate of the yeast and (which affects this)
presence of clarifying agents. I made the mistake last fall of putting the
recommended amount of Polyclar in a batch of stout (to get it to blow off
C02 to flush O2 out of the secondary---stouts aren't supposed to be clear);
it was a few days in primary and a week in secondary, and it still has NO
head at all. I asked both my suppliers what I could do about avoiding this
and they basically went fumfuh-fumfuh-well-you-could-add-yeast. (Note that
a number of German bottle-conditioned beers, e.g. "hefeweizen" do this
after deliberately filtering out the fermenting yeast).
   If you're really worried, you could try mixing a sample with a 1/4-tsp
or so of sugar in a bottle; put on a fermentation lock and see whether it
starts bubbling in a day or so. Even this may be too pessimistic an
assessment, because you'll probably scoop up some yeast when you rack.

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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 11:05:18 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West x4449)
Subject: Fermentation rates for small batches. 

About two weeks ago I finally got around to drilling a one 
inch hole in the bottom of the side of a one gallon jug 
(a story in itself, if there's interest I'll try to describe it). 
This was so I could insert a stopcock, the idea being that I would 
be able to draw off samples from the fermenter without compromising 
the `bio-seal' (not worrying, just trying to be careful). I then 
started a one gallon batch using Whitbread's Ale Yeast. Within 28 
hours of pitching the whole 14gm package, the yeast was beginning 
to settle. That seemed pretty quick. Five days later, the batch was 
down to less than a blub a minute so I bottled it, it's still aging 
and has yet to clear. Before bottling, I cooked up another 
gallon of (low SG) wort, poured it off into a clean jug to cool and 
settle the trub, and in the morning siphoned it in on top of the yeast 
and 1/2" of beer from the last batch and shook it up good. Before I 
was done with breakfast I was getting about a blub every two seconds. 
By the time I got home that night the Krausen had risen and fallen 
(it left marks) and the yeast was beginning to settle. This time I'm 
going to let it settle 'till it's clear before I bottle.

By my limited experience, yeah, small batches go faster, It probably 
has more to do with pitching rate than size though.

- --Carl


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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 11:32:56 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Fermentation rates for small batches, etc..


> I would expect a five gallon batch to take a couple of 
>weeks or more to drop to this level of carbon dioxide production.

fermentation rates are batch size independent, Think about this, otherwise it
would take places like Anchor N times longer to produce a batch than a 5 gallon
homebrewer, where N is the ratio of their batch size to the homebrewers.

Things that effect fermentation times are
1) pitching rates, how much active yeast you add at the start
2) proper aeration, how much oxygen is present to allow the yeast to undergo
aerobic fermentation which produces more energy thus allowing for reproduction,
which utilizes a lot of energy, and greater yeast concenttration
3) presence of proper trace minerals for yeast health
4) temperature at which fermentation occurs
5) attenuative ability of the yeast, how much alcohol it can produce before it
poisons itself.

Most ale ferments take on the order of 3-14 days ,independent of batch size,
but dependent on the above factors.

Relax, don't worry.

To Bill Thacker, 
primary yeast is much better than secondary yeast. It tends to
be more vigorous, since it has been dormant for a shorter period. Most
everything I've seen on repitching says use yeast fromn the  primary...

To Mark Andrews:
The thing is you don't boil *ALL* your water. Many brewers like to do full
boils, thus necessitating wort chilling. I used your method in the past, but
now that I do full boils I use an immersion chiller, 15 miinutes is not so long
to wait...

JaH

PS Sure seems like a lot of people in the military have taken to homebrewing.

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a window system named X, not a system named X Window.
Disclaimer: Programmers may be able to control computers, 
	    but no one has learned how to control programmers.


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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 12:32:43 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: Re: Fermentation rates in small batches


I don't think the size of the batch affects the fermentation rate
per se, assuming you you proportionately as much yeast, same
temperature, etc.

As for your beer finishing in two days, I find this normal for
a stout.  My favorite beer is to follow the guidelines for
"Dark Sleep Stout" in TCJOHB, doubling or tripling the grains and
hops, adding 3 extra lbs of dry dark malt extract, and starting
with 6 gal. instead of 5, so that I have 5 left when trasnferring 
to a secondary.  I usually get an initial S.G. of ~1.070,
or slightly less.  The beer ferments completely in 2 days!
I started a batch last tuesday, and it was practically done
fermenting thursday night.  I gave it until saturday to
settle, racked it to a secondary, and then bottled it last
(monday night).  by tomorrow it should be carbonated and
ready to drink.  8 days total.  Anybody know of anything faster?
(P.S. I've only tried thried this with munton & fison ale yeast
 - perhaps that has something to do with it)

I find it interesting that you get much less of a stout
flavor when you add the third bag/can of malt extract.
(even if you cut the roasted barley proportionately.)
The weaker stouts taste stoutier, the stronger ones taste
more like a cross between a porter/bock/stout, more to
my liking, - I can't stop licking my lips the whole time.
(but quite volitate to your digestive system)

Saturday night I tried to brew an oatmeal stout.  I cooked
the oatmeal separately, used a lot of water, and strained
the finer oat particles into the boil.  They certainly
made the wort thicker, but did not add much S.G. to it.
I started with 42 oz. oatmeal, and probably threw 75%
or it down the drain, getting about 2 gallons of the finer
particles in the boil.  Same basic recipe as above,
with only 2 cans of malt extract, no dry.  initial S.G. 1.053,
final S.G. 1.027.  There was 5 inches of oatmeal sediment
in the bottom of the fermenter - it all settled out.
Perhaps one needs to start with cracked oats, not oatmeal.

bb (former lite beer drinker)


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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 11:14:17 PDT
From: kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson)
Subject: Hunter, extraction temps

Does anyone know where to pick up a Hunter Energy Monitor in the Bay Area/

Don McDaniel writes:
The result:  an OG of 52!  This time I replicted Miller's extraction
almost exactly.  The only deliberate change in my procedure this time
was to avoid temperature overshoot when adjusting the mash temp.  In
the past, I had set the mash temp and when I returned to stir I'd
found the temp to actually be higher than before.  I think this time by
avoiding overshoot and stirring regurlarly to maintain uniform
temperature (as Marc does) I avoided de-activating my enzymes
prematurely.

Last week I completely screwed up a batch by mashing at 170 F, because I was
using a friends thermometer and was used to the C scale.  Anyway, I tried to
save it by lowering the temperature and adding a little more grain, but I
only got 1036 out of 10 lb of grain. I'm bumming.  I used to mash at 70 C,
because of the quick conversion times.  But I always seemed to get really
shitty extraction rates like 25 pts/lb.  Is it possible that a lower mash
temp would improve things?  What kind of temperature/time combinations are
people using to get good results?  I'm thinking of switching to a 90-120 min
mash so I can sleep in class while starch is converting.

kj

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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 15:59:19 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: cheap malt extract


What's the cheapest source of malt extract (canned or dry)
available?  Please list distributor, price, and address
in response.

bb

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Date:         Tue, 30 Apr 91 16:56:38 EDT
From: "John E. Lenz" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      HB Digest No. 626

In today's (4-30) digest Dan Graham asks about the attenuative abilities
of the Whitbread ale yeast.

I've seen this referred to as an unattenuative strain (at least in its dry
form) but have just recently used the Wyeast Whitbread culture and don't
feel this is so.  The original gravity, on a Pale Ale, was 1.058, and after
a one-week primary and a two-week secondary fermentation the terminal gravity
on this batch was 1.010.  Seems like a reasonable attenuation to me.
CO2 production can be somewhat misleading at times, specific gravity seems
to be a more reliable indicator of what activity has taken place, though
with a two gallon batch I understand if you are unwilling to "waste" very
much of it on specific gravity readings.

Bill Thacker asks about using the yeast drop from the secondary in lieu of
pitching fresh yeast when bottling.

Seems like a reasonable approach, why don't you give it a try and let us
know how it works out.

Matthew Harrington is looking for a mail order source for beer steins.

As I recall, Jim's Homebrew Supply, in Spokane, WA (address was posted
recently) had a catalog from which these could be ordered, at least this
was the case a couple years ago when Tom was the proprietor.

A general comment regarding the extract levels that Dave Miller claims to get,
35 points per pound per gallon seems a bit high to me, but then Dave may have
been brewing long enough to have optimized his procedures and processes.
Something in the 28 to 30 points per pound per gallon range seems like a
reasonable expectation to me.  One thing I remember from some reading I was
doing a few years back is that beyond some point (which I don't recall) the
relationship between pounds of grain mashed and points of extract starts to
show some diminishing returns (i.e. the relationship isn't simply linear).
If anyone has some more detailed knowledge on this subject I'm sure that some
of us would appreciate a posting on the subject.

Lastly, do any of you have any experience with the Wyeast Bavarian Wheat
yeast culture?  I'd like to know what the lower end of the temperature
range at which this one will actively ferment is.

Ein prosit,
Dr. John

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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 14:23:56 -0500
From: huyink at npdiss3.StPaul.NCR.COM (Dave Huyink)
Subject: Re: Pasadena Pubs

In HB 624  rlr at bbt.com mentioned:

>  When in Pasadena, get to the Loch Ness Monster Pub (north on Fair Oaks,
>I don't remember the address).  Center of the infamous Doo Dah Parade, this
>is a nifty little pub without their own brew, but they do have Bass, Watney's
>and Guiness on tap, and loads of other stuff in the bottle.  Good bands on
>the weekends, with a fairly cheap cover.

Except for the bands, this almost sounds like another Pub in Pasadena:
The John Bull, also on Fair Oaks about two blocks south of Colorado (I think
the cross street is Delacey).  In fact, I thought the Doo Dah Parade
originated with the John Bull.  Perhaps it is no longer there, but if it is,
it is a real treat (and just across the street from the Amtrak Station). No
homebrew, but a good place to drink the beers of the Empire.



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Date:    Tue, 30 Apr 1991 18:54:50 EDT
From: IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU
Subject: Pitching

Hi,

This is my third batch.  I have two bottled and one in the secondary 
fermenter.  Due to the fact that I live in an apartment, I brew in the 
kitched and ferment in the living room.  My apartment is about 75F 
constantly, and sometimes gets to 80F.  Here's the question:  when I 
pitch, the fermenter bubbles for no more than 2 days--max.  When I 
move it to the secondary, no more bubbling occurs.

What am I doing wrong?  Most literature I've read here and in the 
brewing books talks about 7 days--whats up?  BTW, the first two batchs 
ended up with ending gravities of about 1010, and starting gravs about 
1042, so it is fermenting.  The first batch tasted ok.

Second quick one--would taking a gravity measure with the scum from 
the bottom of the bucket, i.e. mostly yeast, be comnpletely 
inaccurate.  I havent done this, but was wondering.

Keep on Brewin'!

Kieran 

IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU Internet     IOCONNOR at SUNRISE  (bitnet)

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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 08:50:40 CDT
From: motcid!red!chambers at uunet.UU.NET (Jeff Chambers)
Subject: fruit fermentation in HB

My recent batch, a Rasberry Stout, after transfer to the secondary, laid 
dormant for two weeks.  The fermentation then took off just when we felt
that the fermentation was over.  I'm wondering: Do the complex sugars found
in fruit beers somehow delay fermentation?  We normally use Munton & Fison
Yeast and we have not noticed activity of this kind in any of our other brews.

Thanks in Advance for any Wisdom imparted,
Jeff

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Date:     Tue, 30 Apr 91 21:49 CST
From: <SU0751A%DRAKE.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:  Small batches, beer spheres, brewpubs

A couple of quick comments on recent postings:


Re: Small batches ==> Fast fermentations

We do our ales in standard 5-gallon batches, at about 70 deg F., in a large
plastic primary.  Our rule of thumb is that four days is sufficient for the
fermentation to be slowed enough (i.e., several minutes between glubs) to rack
into secondaries.  On the other hand, our hard cider is fermented in its
original 1-gallon jugs, but takes >2 weeks to reach a similar level of
fermentation rate.  I realize that the cider has more fermentables, but not
THAT much more.  We make ciders of differing strengths, but they all take
_roughly_ the same length of time.  All of the batches, ciders and ales, use
dry ale yeast (usually M&F) that has been given a head start (an hour or so in
warm sugar water).

My point is not that small batches imply long fermentations.  As the recent
statistical discussions point out, coincidence does not imply causation.  My
point is just that small batches do not necessarily imply short fermentations
either.  For whatever that's worth.


Re: A source for beer spheres

There will probably be a lot of replies to this, since I got my original info
from _Zymurgy_.  A company called Marc C. Fritz, Inc., in Potsdam, NY, sells
what they call a Batch Latch system for reusing party balls as homebrew kegs.
Prices for different systems range from $29.95 to $185.00; individual parts are
available also.  If you're interested, call them at 1-800-762-2560 and they'll
send you a free info package in a month or so.  I don't work for them, I just
think it looks like they have a good setup and am considering it myself.  If we
go through with it, I'll post a summary of the results.


Re: A new topic

My brewpartner and I have recently been thinking quite seriously of going
commercial, in the form of a brewpub.  It just so happens that both of our
lifes have a sort of opportunity for this right now.  _ANY_ information from
knowledgeable types (preferably someone who's done this before) would be
greatly appreciated.  Please e-mail directly to me or my brewpartner (MC2331S
at the same node); if I get a lot of good stuff, I'll post a summary.  Thanks!

                                                Sterling Udell
                                                Big Dog Brewing Cooperative
                                                SU0751A at DRAKE.BITNET
                                                SU0751A at acad.drake.edu
                                                su0751a at dunix.drake.edu

"Look, Ma, I'm drinking my oatmeal!"            - Armageddon Oatmeal Bock

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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 91 22:48:47 PDT
From: mbharrington at UCSD.EDU
Subject: should it take 16 days in the fermentor?


I've had a batch of Teleford's Lager (kit) in my carboy (5 gal.) for
16 days now, and it still hasn't stopped.  Any suggestions as to how
to speed it up  a bit?

Also,
does anyone have any tips about taking samples out of the carboy to
take hydrometer readings?

Thanks!

PS.  I'll post a summary about my request for beer stein info...

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #627, 05/01/91
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