HOMEBREW Digest #630 Mon 06 May 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  re: State Bill (brewpub rationale) (Dick Dunn)
  Hopless (hopeless) Beer ? (Jim White)
  Where to brew my Ale? (John Mireley)
  Filtered water (Joe Kendall)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #629 (May 03, 1991) (dave)
  root beer cross post ("Ihor W. Slabicky")
  Re: Soda Pop and exploding bottles (Dave Sheehy)
  Re: ginger beer/ale, root beer (Eric Pepke)
  chlorine as sterilizer (CONNELL)
  Re: Maybock (Fritz Keinert)
  Re:  Cheap Extract (John DeCarlo)
  Brewpubs in Texas and pub database (JRM  at  214/575-6774)
  Re: Numerology (Kurt Swanson)
  Re: Next prime power (Barry Cunningham)
  Miller's homebrew book (Chip Hitchcock)
  re: Maybock (Tim Anderson  at  APD x2205)
  Re:  I'm sick of bad beer (florianb)
  diacetyl -/-> Phenols, S. Delbruckii, mit hefe,maibock (Bill Crick)
  extract prices by the barrel? (John S. Watson - FSC)
  off tasting mead ("KATMAN.WNETS385")
  Some questions from a novice (Tom Quinn 4-nnnn)
  Starch conversion in specialty grains (Don McDaniel)
  Hopless Bars? (C.R. Saikley)
  bock definition, starch in spec. grain (kevin vang)
  Maibock, etc. ("Dr. John")
  Culturing Paulaner hefeweizen yeast (David Lim)
  Microwave ovens... (David Lim)
  fruit in beer (chip upsal)
  San Diego pubs, etc. (RANDALL SCHRICKEL (NCE) x7661)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #629 (May 03, 1991) (Robert Orr)
  siphoning (Dieter Muller)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 2 May 91 03:10:13 MDT (Thu) From: ico.isc.com!rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: re: State Bill (brewpub rationale) Brian D. Moore <bemo at spacsun.rice.edu> writes: > Here in Texas, it is currently illegal to operate a brewpub. However, > there is currently legislation to allow microbreweries to operate (defined > to be production < 75,000 barrels, a limit I do not exceed -- yet)... That's a generous upper limit! (I remember when Anchor was at about 30,000 barrels/year; where are they now?) >...Debate > is ongoing, so I ask: in my letter to my representative, what arguments > should I include? My local supplier suggests tourism, but I cannot back > this up with any facts. Is local color enough of an argument for passage? Tourism is a minor issue. I'd suggest two possibilities: - Moderation: Microbreweries tend to make beer which has more flavor and body. People drink less of a flavorful, full-bodied beer than of thin beer. (It takes a little work to write it all out in convincing style, but "less filling" really means "more intoxicating".) They also drink less of good beer than of hard liquor. Therefore, microbreweries encourage those who drink to drink in moderation. - Local control and local economic benefit: A local beer employs local people, is locally controlled, generates more local tax revenue, and doesn't ship our dollars off to them damn furriners. (Apologies in advance; I'm sure there are "damn furriners" in the audience! No ill will intended. We're trying to help a fella get local breweries by speaking to the issue in terms that will be understood in his locale.) --- Dick Dunn rcd at raven.eklektix.com -or- raven!rcd Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 03 May 91 06:32:10 EDT From: JWHITE at maine.maine.edu (Jim White) Subject: Hopless (hopeless) Beer ? William Boyle writes..... > >Subject: Unhopped malt > >My brew partner wants to brew our next batch with unhopped >extract and add no hops. I think this will not turn out very >good. Has anybody tried this and how did it turn out. > > Bill Boyle Yuch! What shall we call this strange concoction ? IMHO Beer w/o the bitter would be like Chocolate w/o the sweet. Though I'm sure that history would provide some precedence for such a brew, I wouldn't recommend it. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 91 07:35:49 EDT From: John Mireley <mireley at horus.cem.msu.edu> Subject: Where to brew my Ale? I have been fermenting my lager beer in the basement. The temperature has been 61 and hasn't changed more than a degree either way. I want to brew my first batch of ale. I'll be using a Muton and Fison Olde Ale kit. Should I do the fermenting upstairs where it will be warmer but the temperature is likely to vary more (5-10 degrees) or keep doing it in the basement at a steady 61 degrees? My inclination is to do it in the basement and be patient. John Mireley Return to table of contents
Date: 05/03/91 From: Joe Kendall <SYSHJK%GSU.EDU at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Subject: Filtered water I recently purchased an NSA water filter for my tap. I've noticed a definite improvement in drinking water and coffee and I wonder if it will have a similar effect on my home brew. We have fairly soft water in my area (Atlanta, Ga. USA). The home brew produced with unfiltered water is fine. The question is will I see any effects from filtered water (adverse or beneficial). Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 91 09:00:06 EDT From: dave at circus.Camex.COM Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #629 (May 03, 1991) Please remove me from this mailing list. Unsubscribe, etc. Thanks P. David Pruyn UUCP: dave at camex.com or Camex, Inc. uunet!camex!dave 75 Kneeland St., Boston, MA 02111 Tel: (617)426-3577 Fax: 426-9285 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 91 08:40:48 -0400 From: "Ihor W. Slabicky" <iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com> Subject: root beer cross post ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 May 91 17:45 GMT From: "KATMAN.WNETS385" Subject: rootbeer revisited Does anyone have a recipe for rootbeer that is "from scratch" using the actual plant parts that make the syrup? I just saw such a posting in rec.food.drink (see, they're good for something :-) ) and saved it, on the off chance that someone here might once again ask the question. I think the rootbeer and the mead question comeup once a year. However is keeping archives could have special mead and rootbeer files just for those times... :-) The first recommendation is to use the bottled extract (Schilling, or McCormick, or Hires [I don't think Hires sells their extract anymore]). But you say you want more... shameless picked up somewhere on the Net: Date: Thu, 18 Apr 91 13:03:59 PDT From: Dave Sheehy <dbs at hprnd.rose.hp.com> Subject: Re: Soda Pop and exploding bottles As we have seen in the last several posts the general consensus seems to be that making soda pop is an exercise is demolitions manufacture. My experience however has been to the contrary. I have some bottles of home made soda pop that have been sitting at room temperature (which can range up in the high 70s in the summer) for over a year. Why do I not have the problems that many others have had? I've thought over my procedure and think that I may have a reasonable hypothesis. My procedure is: 1. Put the required quantity of water (4 gals.) in my brewpot and heat. I may or may not bring this to a boil depending on how patient/distracted I am that day but the temperature definitely gets into the sanitation range ( > 165 F). 2. Start the recommended amount of yeast (1/4 tsp) separately in a bowl of warm sugar solution. 3. Add the entire quantity of sugar (8 cups) and soda extract to the water. Dissolve the sugar into the water and allow the solution to cool to, oh say somewhere in the 80s. 4. Add the yeast starter to the soda solution and mix well. 5. Bottle immediately (do NOT pass GO, do NOT collect $200 :-). 6. It commonly takes 3-4 weeks to carbonate. It's really much better after several months in the bottle. The flavors blend or something, it's a very noticeable effect. Why does this procedure not cause problems? Here's what I think may be going on. The commonly offered explanation for why bottles of soda pop do not overcarbonate and explode is that the yeast is limited by available nutrients. I think this statement is true but that it is only part of the answer. In my procedure I heat the water up to a high temperature driving off any dissolved oxygen in the process. This limits the aerobic phase (and therefore the reproductive stage) of the yeast. This limits the effective population of yeast. With a limited population of yeast you are less likely to overcarbonate. In this scenario, the pitching rate becomes a factor. If you pitch a large initial population of yeast, you will get overcarbonation. In fact, the only time I've had bottles explode (and they blew up in the vegetable crisper of my refrigerator by the way) was when I exceeded the recommended pitching rate of 1/4 tsp. Therefore, I disagree with the poster who maintains that pitching is a binary function. I believe pitching rate is significant in this situation. I got a whole load of pretty vehement email about exploding bottles about a year ago when I posted about an experiment in making psuedo low cal soda pop (I still haven't tried it but it involves using fructose which is 80% sweeter than sucrose, I think you can figure out the rest of my plan). Since I hadn't had the problems that these people had I've been thinking alot about my procedure and why I don't have the same problems. This is what I came up with. So, what do y'all think? From pepke at gw.scri.fsu.edu Tue Apr 23 11:49:15 1991 From: pepke at gw.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) Subject: Re: ginger beer/ale, root beer Here is the recipe I usually use for ginger beer. Ingredients: 3-4 oz. fresh ginger 2 lemons 2 cups sugar (sucrose or brown sugar or both) 1 gal. water Yeast Peel the ginger and slice into 1/8 inch slices. Mix the water with the sugar and put in the ginger. Boil an hour or so. Slice the lemons, add to the boil, and boil for about 15 minutes. Allow to cool to room temperature. Add yeast. Let the yeast grow overnight. Bottle in very strong bottles. Let sit at room temperature for about 12 hours to carbonate. Put bottles in the fridge. Open very carefully. Notes: Every time I did not peel the ginger, the yeast did not multiply properly. There may be a causal relationship. The more you let the lemons boil, the more bitterness will be extracted from the peels. For a result a lot like Canada Dry's Bitter Lemon, increase the number of lemons to 4, let the lemons boil for about 1/2 hour, and cut back on the ginger. If you don't like the lemony flavor at all, substitute about 1 tsp. cream of tartar for them. I don't know what it's supposed to do, but it's better with than without. I first started making this when I was a teenager and knew nothing about homebrewing. I always used baking yeast and didn't really sanitize anything. It worked fine. Now I brew all-grain beer with fresh yeast, but I still use baking yeast for this recipe. I have a number of recipes for root beer as well, but (1) they require some ingredients which are difficult to find even in well-stocked yuppie granola-head stores, (2) most of them include sassafrass bark, which is no longer legal to sell for human consumption, and (3) none of them produce results that taste much like the modern extract-based root beer that we're used to. I will try to put my hands on them if there is any interest. I have recieved several requests for root beer recipes. Here are some from a 19th century book, which has long since been nicked from the library. Most of these recipes contain sassafras bark, which is illegal to purchase for human consumption because it contains small amounts of a toxin. So, don't make root beer with sassafras. Instead, go out an buy a whole carton of unfiltered cigarettes and smoke them all at once. That's legal. Root Beer--1.--To 5 gal. of boiling water add 1 1/2 gal. of molasses. Allow it to stand for 3 hours, then add bruised sassafras bark, wintergreen bark, srsaparilla root, of each 1/4 lb., and 1/2 pt. of fresh yeast, water enough to make 15 to 17 gal. After this has fermented for 12 hours it can be drawn off and bottled. 2.--Pour boiling water on 2 1/2 oz. sassafras, 1 1/2 oz. wild cherry bark, 2 1/2 oz. allspice, 2 1/2 oz. wintergreen bark, 1/2 oz. hops, 1/2 oz. coriander seed, 2 gal. molasses. Let the mixture stand 1 day. Strain, add 1 pt. yeast, enough water to make 13 gal. This beer may be bottled the following day. 3.--Sarsaparilla, 1 lb.; spicewood, 1/4 lb.; guaiacum chips, 1/2 lb; birch bark, 1/8 lb.; ginger, 1/4 oz.; sassafras, 2 oz.; prickly ash bark, 1/4 oz.; hops, 1/2 oz. Boil for 12 hours over a moderate fire with sufficient water, so that the remainder shall measure 3 gal., to which add tincture of ginger, 4 oz.; oil of wintergreen, 1/2 oz.; alcohol, 1 pt. This prevents fermentation. [Yeah, right--EMP] To make root beer, take of this decoction, 1 qt.; molasses, 8 oz., water, 2 1/2 gal.; yeast, 4 oz. This will soon ferment and produce a good, drinkable beverage. The root beer should be mixed, in warm weather, the evening before it is used, and can be kept for use either bottled or drawn by a common beer pump. Most people prefer a small addition of wild cherry bitters or hot drops to the above beer. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 91 09:23 CST From: CONNELL at vax.cord.edu Subject: chlorine as sterilizer My local water utility is in the process of building a new water treatment facility. The reason given is that new EPA guidelines on trihalomethanes can only be met if ozone rather than chlorine is used as the primary disinfectant in water treatment. That has me wondering how good an idea it is for us to use bleach in disinfecting/sanitizing brewing equipment. My uncertainty on this is even greater since I have seen such wide variations in recommended concentrations of bleach in water to use. Are bisulphites or B-Brite safer? George Connell Connell at vax.cord.edu on Internet Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 03 May 91 09:47:52 CDT From: Fritz Keinert <keinert at iastate.edu> Subject: Re: Maybock In digest #629, <hannan at gnpike.enet.dec.com> asks >> Anyone know the definition of May bock beer, or bock in general ? "Bock" means "male goat" in German, and you often find a picture of one on the bottle. However, the name of the beer has nothing to do with that. Bock beer was first brewed in the town of Einbeck, and got its name from that. The Einbeck beer was extra strong and became well known for that, even outside the immediate area. Other beers could not be transported well in the olden days; they spoiled in transit. (We are talking oxcarts over dirt roads, here, with the beer in wooden kegs). Today, Bock beer just means any extra strong beer. Many breweries in Germany make one of these for Labor Day (May 1 in most countries except for the USA), so that is Maibock. The traditional Labor Day activity in Germany is to take a hike in the outdoors, to enjoy the coming of spring, until you run into one of the beer tents set up all over the place. This is where Maibock comes in. Fritz Keinert phone: (515) 294-5128 Department of Mathematics fax: (515) 294-5454 Iowa State University e-mail: keinert at iastate.edu Ames, IA 50011 Return to table of contents
Date: Friday, 3 May 1991 11:22:06 EDT From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: Cheap Extract >What's the cheapest source of malt extract (canned or dry) >available? Please list distributor, price, and address It seems to me that the folks that sell their malt extract in the plastic bags (that can go right in the boil) offer the best prices. The best price I got was last year when Williams Brewing in CA had a sale on English Light--$10 for 6lbs. I just recently ordered some from American Brewmasters in NC. In quantity, the cost goes down to $6.08 for a 3.3lb bag. As Chris Shenton pointed out to me, if you include shipping charges, your effective price will vary on distance, so shipping from NC probably saves me more anyway. It would seem likely that buying the 55lb pails of extract would be the cheapest, but it never goes below $2/lb, so it can only be cheapest by including the shipping charges, which are typically included in the price. John "BTW, the next issue that is a prime power is actually 631^1, followed by 641^1" DeCarlo Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org) Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 91 10:18:59 -0500 From: jmellby at skvax1.csc.ti.com (JRM at 214/575-6774) Subject: Brewpubs in Texas and pub database I have heard that out club president, Mike Leonard (also runs one of the local home-brew stores) has been down to Austin to testify to the legislature to legalize brewpubs. Usually the first real hurdle is to make it into the legislature as a real issue, as opposed to something the politicians ignore. I believe we have made it this far. The real opposition now is the very strong beer distributors' lobby (which wants to keep the 3-tiered system). On another note, v1 of my pub (and brewpub and microbrewery) program is running. It has about 640+ entries (181 brewpubs, 77 microbreweries). The README file is 8k so I'm not posting it here, but I'll send it to anyone interested. The program is in C++ for a Sun/4. The db itself is currently 126k. Anyone having listings of brewpubs, microbreweries, or bars you can recommend please talk to me. John R. Mellby jmellby at iluvatar.dseg.ti.com jmellby at skvax1.ti.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 91 10:28:45 CDT From: kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson) Subject: Re: Numerology > 1) The next issue whose number will be a prime power should be 729 which is 3 > to the 6th power. Move over amateur numerologists... the next prime power is 631, which is 631^1. Hah, hah hah. K. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 91 11:04:08 EDT From: abvax!icd.ab.com!bwc at uunet.UU.NET (Barry Cunningham) Subject: Re: Next prime power 631 is a prime. 631^1 = 631. | Barry Cunningham {cwjcc,pyramid,decvax,uunet}!bwc at icd.ab.com | | Allen-Bradley Company, Inc. or ICCGCC::CUNNINGHAM | | 747 Alpha Drive or BWCUNNIN at MRGSD at REMNET | | Highland Hts., OH 44143 phone: (216) 646-5241 FAX: (216) 646-4484 | Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 91 11:45:43 EDT From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock) Subject: Miller's homebrew book When ZYMURGY reviewed this, the chief rap was that the book was very opinionated, taking vigorous positions on matters that brewers disagree on without backing them up with solid research. This is certainly true; consider -"iodine testing for starch conversion is a waste of time"-. Miller also disdains extract brewing; most of his recipes are for full-mash brewing, with partial-mash versions appended. It's definitely a book that would scare away most beginners. On the other hand, the book notes many of the advances in basic homebrewing technique. All recipes specify AAU's of hops (Papazian specs ounces, which is much less precise), and he covers a very wide variety of styles with both recipes and discussions of what defines the style, and without cute names or distracting and inaccurate descriptions. I've used his recipes to figure what to add to light extract to make various styles (this is Papazian's weakest point---his recipes and his table of style additives show an excessive fondness for black malt, which I am now \\very// cautious about using at all). It's well-organized (technique in brief, technique in detail, recipes), discusses chemistry in useful detail, and has an index. I'd say it's still not the ideal book, but it's much better than any other general homebrewing book you can find (e.g., there are some pretty good English books that cover fewer styles and call for ingredients that are either unavailable or strangely named). NB: the cover varnish on my copy shrank even without exposure to sunlight; a nuisance, but I don't think this can be fixed (somebody should tell Miller he has a cheap publisher) and it doesn't spoil the book. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 91 09:12:18 PDT From: tima at apd.MENTORG.COM (Tim Anderson at APD x2205) Subject: re: Maybock In HBD #629 (17 * 37) Ken writes: > I recently bought some Ayinger Maibock (May Bock) beer from > West Germany. It is a very bitter very heavy very strong delicious > brew which I had never heard of. Apparently "bock" doesn't mean > dark, as this brew has a basic dense, golden color. > > Anyone know the definition of May bock beer, or bock in general ? Read your description. Sounds like a pretty good definition to me. tim Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 03 May 91 09:16:32 PDT From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com Subject: Re: I'm sick of bad beer Marty Albini commented on Brian D. Moore's input to the Texas legislature: > Tell them the current laws are anti-competitive, and >are inhibitting a potentially lucretive industry. Jobs is a >good arguement; I don't think anybody in the legislature would >be sympathetic to "I'm sick of bad beer!" If the process of >regulating alcohol is as corrupt in TX as it is in CA, the >megabreweries will have an easier time suppressing competition >than the public will encouraging it. The trouble is, having microbreweries legal isn't any guarantee that the beer quality will improve. In fact, here in Oregon there are several breweries producing ale of such poor quality that if I had made it in my own kitchen, I would have poured it out. Some of this stuff *should* be illegal!! Rarely do I purchase microbrewery beer out of bottles on the grocery shelf. But recently, I made a trip to Portland, then Corvallis on a weekend. Being away from my own brew, I took the plunge and bought some bottled micros from two grocery's. In PDX I bought Portland Ale, Full Sail Amber, and some European standby's. In Corvallis I bought Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Sierra Nevada Bock, Bridgeport Coho, and Coors. Of all these, I could only stomach the Sierra Nevada and Coors. Here is a little miniature beer judgement: 1 Portland Ale. Muddy, floating debris, autolyzed, a rotten egg buried under a chicken coop for 10 years, unbalanced bitterness, of interest only to Philistine swine. 2 Bridgeport Coho. Murky, stale, bitterness akin to quinine without the redeeming medicinal quality, "sweet bile", aroma of rotting manure, bathtub odor. The weekend drink of desert oil-drilling equipment mechanics. 3 Sierra Nevada Bock. Clean, well-balanced, satisfying, good aroma, professional. 4 Coors. Clean, neutral, thirst-quenching, unoffending, nearly worth the cost. 5 Corvallis tap water. Dark, moldy, floating boulders, aroma of rotting fish, reminiscent of Portland Ale, but with the aminic stench of Bridgeport Coho. But hey, it's only my opinion. florian, bearing the standard of democratic brewing quality Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 1991 09:26:45 -0400 From: hplabs!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick) Subject: diacetyl -/-> Phenols, S. Delbruckii, mit hefe,maibock Diacetyl, and phenols: Diaceytl can be created by the yeast, or by contamination. I've also heard that too much adjuncts can contribute. I don't think diacetyls can change to phenols? I have intentionally brewed high diacetyl ales, and stored them for long periods with no evidence of phenols. Source of phenols? Most likely is residue from Clorine bleach creating chloro-phenols. These have flavor thresholds in the parts per BILLION!! Note they have medicine like, plastic like flavor. Like chewing an old bandaid? You did chew bandaids when you were kid? Have you changed your cleaning methods lately? Started using bleaches? A cleaner with chlorine based ingredients? Decided to really get it clean by using concentrated ( > than 1oz/5gallons IE:a teaspoon in a gallon) bleach to "really nuke it"? Temperature, and S. Delbruckii: I have a batch going with Mev 033 Wheat beer yeast, which is supposed to be pure S. Delbruckii. They list 16C to 20C. At 16C its going pretty slow (can you say 7weeks, and still fizzing?),so depending what the other yeast is, I'd suggest that at 16C teh S.Delbruckii won't be doing too much attenuation, but I don't know what its secondary flavor activity is at this temp. Maibock: Although several friends have brought Maibock home from Germany, I've never seen it described in any beer books? HOw come? How popular is it? Bill Crick Brewius, Ergo Sum Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 91 09:52:25 -0700 From: John S. Watson - FSC <watson at pioneer.arc.nasa.gov> Subject: extract prices by the barrel? Howdy Folks, Some of the homebrew supply stores I've been to, have 55 gallon barrels of malt extract syrup. You take your own bucket and fill it with the amount of extract you need, and they charge you by the pound. (Last time I did this is was about $1.69). (From my inquires, I've found that a barrel is about 700 pounds of extract.) But the owners always are a little touchy about how much they paid for it. (One said he'd sell it to me for about $1.20 per pound). So my question is, "How much do thos 55 gal barrels of malt extract syrup cost the homebrew supply stores?" And if I had a sudden desire to make 583 gallons of beer, could and where would I procure it? I'm just curious; I live in a one bedroom apartment, and a barrel would take up half my living room. :-) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 91 15:52 GMT From: "KATMAN.WNETS385" <6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753 at mcimail.com> Subject: off tasting mead Date: 03-May-91 Time: 11:53 AM Msg: EXT01012 Hello, Doug Luce in #629 asks about off-tasting mead from September. When I made my first two batches of mead (winter 86-87 and 87-88) I tried 2 recipes. One was the tea, ginger, orange & honey variety, one was from Acton & Duncan (powdered acids & honey). After a year (and I think 3 rackings) the stuff still smelled and tasted off, not quite like formaldehyde, but a similar sweet chemical taste. I chalked it up as a loss and stuck the gallon jugs in a dark corner of the basement. And forgot them. For two years. In 1989 I moved and found them. I decided to bottle them and ask more experienced brewers what I did wrong. Surprisingly, both tasted great! We're talking superb, dry, wine-like meads. I suspect that if you give your mead a while longer to age, it will get better. I know people who make drinkable mead in 2 months, but they usually do not add any acids. Mead and wine take longer than beer to mature. Relax. :) Lee Katman == Thirteen/WNET == New York, NY =Do not= use REPLY or ANSWERBACK, I can not receive mail in that fashion. Please send all mail to INTERNET katman.wnets385%wnet_6790753 at mcimail.com OR MCIMAIL EMS: wnet 6790753 MBX: katman.wnets385 Return to table of contents
Date: 3 May 91 14:52:26 EDT (Fri) From: GC Woods <gcw at garage.att.com> After reading the latest zymurgy I'm confused. The vast majority of the digest posts stress the point to remove the wort from the cold break. This is contrary the zymurgy article on "The trouble with trub" (sorry can't remember the authors name) which stated for most type of beers the cold break trub is actually good for a limited time (you would not lager on trub). He further stated that the hot break precipitates are detrimental to the flavor of the beer. The problem is I did not see an easy way to separate these small (80 - 100 micron) precipitates from the wort. The idea of siphoning from the side of a whirlpool does not seem practical and since these precipitates are so small settling may take forever and siphoning may stir them up again anyhow. Any comments on how to eliminate hot break trub from the wort and why the digest and Miller say to separate the wort from the cold break?? Geoffrey Woods att!garage!gcw (uucp) gcw at garage.att.com (internet) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 91 14:35:59 CDT From: quinnt at turing.med.ge.com (Tom Quinn 4-nnnn) Subject: Some questions from a novice Hi folks, Now that my third batch is relaxingly burbling away in my carboy, I have a few questions about some of the techniques I attempted in my last brewing session. The last place I ordered ingredients from included some directions for new ways of doing things, but there's a few things I'd like to understand better. The first new process I used was preparing a yeast starter from a liquid culture. I boiled 1c water, 3Tbsp malt extract, and one hop pellet for ~20 minutes, cooled, and transferred into a sanitized bottle topped with a fermentation lock. When a nice foam had formed I brewed and pitched the entire contents into my 5 gallon batch. Am I right to assume that I could have perpetuated this yeast by preparing another wort like above, and placed some of my yeast in it to make a new starter? If so, how much would I need to use in the starter? I guess I'd really like to learn more about yeasts. Is the Zymurgy yeast issue a good source? I'd also like to try reusing the yeast by adding my next batch on top of the yeast left from this batch in the carboy. I've seen mention of something called "washing" the yeast, but no explaination of how to do this. Could someone please fill me in? How soon after siphoning off the first batch must I pour in the new one? Thanks for any help. Tom Quinn Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 91 13:41:16 -0600 From: dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu (Don McDaniel) Subject: Starch conversion in specialty grains I'm looking for some experiences with converting the starches in specialty grains in all-extract batches. The recent mention of Miller's comment that the color and flavor is fully released only in mashing reminds me of these thoughts. I have seen a couple of products in brew catalogs (sorry, I can't remember which ones) which should allow an extrct brewer to get sugars from his special grains. One was DMS: diastatic (sp?) malt extract. That's extract with enzymes. The other product was a liquid containing concentrated enzymes. The description said it was used in the production of sake. Add a small amount, adjust the pH and temperature, and full conversion would tAke about 15 minutes. It seems to me that one could steep the crushed grains in a grain bag, add the enzymes and let it go for 30 min. Then disolve the extract and continue as usual. This would add no extra time as you need to steep for color and flavor anyway. It would let you get the sugar from the grain and might result in more color and flavor. Miller says specialty grains yield 25 points per pound per gallon (somewhat more for crystal). For a five gallon batch then, you'd get about five points out of a pound of crystal (common amount for a pale ale). Has anyone tried any of these products? How do they work? Do you see any reason they might not work? Don McDaniel dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 3 May 91 10:40:50 PDT From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley) Subject: Hopless Bars? From: William Boyle (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL> >My brew partner wants to brew our next batch with unhopped >extract and add no hops. I think this will not turn out very >good. Has anybody tried this and how did it turn out. I would tend to agree with you. Hops are very beneficial to beer, so use 'em :-D The Anchor Brewing Co made a special Sumerian Brew. The recipe allegedly came from the inside of a cave in Sumeria (sometimes referred to as Iraq!). The mash was made from loaves of bread and dates. The "wort" was heated, but not boiled. No hops were used. It was not your everyday drink, and was enjoyed by some yet decreed vile by others. I put some in my cellar to see how it would develop. It went off very quickly. This brew had the shortest shelf life of any I've known. Moral of the story : Boil your wort and add hops. Hoppy Brewing, CR Return to table of contents
llbock, but is nonetheless a heavenly brew. Maibocks can vary in color, I've seen them range from golden to amber. For a domestic Hellbock that does its Bavarian brethren proud, look for Sierra Nevada Pale Bock, the proverbial nectar of the gods. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 03 May 91 14:29:59 CDT From: kevin vang <MN033302 at VM1.NoDak.EDU> Subject: bock definition, starch in spec. grain "Bock" means "goat". One of the charming traditions of German brewers is the brewing of special seasonal beers to be drunk at various times of the year. Oktoberfest beers being one obvious example. Bock beers were traditionally brewed by monks to be drunk during lent (Salvator, brewed by the Paulaner order , is the archetypical example). Either the season when bock is brewed or serv- ed (I forget which, I'm not up on astrology) occurs during the sign of Capri- corn, the goat, hence "Bock bier". Bocks are traditionally stronger than usual brews, and one which is extremely strong is a "Doppelbock" (double bock). A "Maibock" would be a bock intended to be drunk in May. "Helles" means light (color, not calories) and "Dunkel" means dark, so a "Helles bock" is a light colored bock. (bocks are typically dark, so you wouldn't say "dunkelbock"). Incidently, most bock beers will have a picture of a goat somewhere on the label. I was amused by two domestic bocks. Augsberger bock (if I remember correctly) has a picture of a sheep on its label, and Kessler bock, brewed in Helena, Montana, has a Rocky Mountain goat. Specialty grains -- The purpose of mashing is to convert non-fermentable starches into fermentable sugars. Crystal malt has been soaked in water and then kilned, which process converts the starches to sugar. Thus crystal can be added at any time, and does not need mashing. Cara-pils (dextrine) malt is similar to crystal except (I think) that it is kilned at a lower temp, so it has less color, and it has some starches; so it should be mashed. Roasted malt , black patent malt, and chocolate malt are added purely for color and flavor, and thus don't need to be mashed. Munich malt, wheat malt and adjuncts (rice, maize, flaked barley, oatmeal) have only unconverted starches, and therefore must be mashed. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 03 May 91 15:52:04 EDT From: "Dr. John" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu> Subject: Maibock, etc. A few comments regarding postings to HBD #629: Ken <hannan at gnpike.enet.dec.com> asks about the Maibock style, According to Michael Jackson, in "The Simon & Schuster Pocket Guide to Beer" Maibock is "A bock beer of super-premium quality. Usually pale. Made for the end of April and beginning of May to celebrate spring." I have had this particular beer (Ayinger Maibock) a couple years ago and don't recall it as a particularly bitter, perhaps they have changed the formulation. Bill Boyle asks about making a hop-free beer with unhopped malt extract, I don't think that this would produce anything that I'd personally want to drink, haven't tried it and don't plan to. Darryl Okahata asks about Jackie Rager's IBU formula in the Hop issue of Zymurgy, Guess I'll have to play around with the formula a bit more to look into its apparently extreme sensitivity to the time of the boil. One thing I did notice in the presentation is that the formula as presented, if used strictly as presented, produces different numbers than the example which follows it later in the article. Seems that Zymurgy could use a good technical editor; this is not the first time that they have had articles with mathematical formulae which don't give the answers that subsequent examples produce. Caveat emptor. As to additional extraction of bittering compounds during the time between the boil and when the wort is all chilled, I personally wouldn't worry about it too much as a good rolling boil is required to isomerize the alpha acids. Mbharrington at ucsd.edu asks about Miller's book In my opinion this is a good book that picks up with a lot of topics where Papazian leaves off. It also doesn't suffer from the cutesiness that Papazian was so fond of (he seems to have toned it down somewhat recently, and thankfully, though I guess the true test will be the second edition of "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing" which is reportedly due out this fall.) The only caveat I would place on my recommendation for Miller's book concerns those who have no interest in mashing, if you are among this group you may not find the book to be all that useful. If, on the other hand, you are thinking about dabbling with some partial mashes, or jumping into all-grain brewing, then this is the book for you. Is anyone out there planning to take the Beer Judge exam at the AHA conference next month? I know we have at least one beer judge on the forum (Darryl Richman), any others? If so, do you have any study/exam- related advice for those of us aspiring to judgeship? Any and all comments would be graciously accepted and appreciated. Cheers, Dr. John Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 4 May 91 13:50:29 MDT From: David Lim <limd at sulu.Colorado.EDU> Subject: Culturing Paulaner hefeweizen yeast Hi. I'm interested in knowing what kind of experiences people have had in culturing Paulaner hefeweizen yeast. I realize that it's a lager yeast that they add to the bottle after fermentation (i.e. not the yeast they use to do the "primary" fermentation - which I'm assuming would be one specifically needed to produce the classic wheat beer phenolics, esters, etc... such as S. Delbruckii (spelling?) ) . What I'm interested in is how good of a yeast this bottle yeast is for lager fermentation. It doesn't seem to be a very flocculant strain, as shaken bottles of Paulaner hefeweizen seem to stay cloudy for quite a long time - maybe this is intentional on Paulaner's part to make sure that the drinkers know that they're getting "real" yeast (hefe) in their brew. (I hear that some breweries in Germany actually have dispensers of yeast slurry for customers to *add* to their glasses of beer!) I do have the ability to culture my own yeast colonies on agar slants and plates, so I'm looking to expand my "collection" with other samples. If anyone has sucessfully used this yeast for fermentation of lagers, what's it like? Is it attenuative? Does it have any "quirks" like having the need to raise the fermentation temperature during the final third to reduce diacetyl? Is is "stable" enough for home culturing? Yes, I could just as easily start from some "known" strains such as those Wyeast provides, but that's not as fun. Thanks! _Davin Lim (limd at sulu.colorado.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 4 May 91 13:54:40 MDT From: David Lim <limd at sulu.Colorado.EDU> Subject: Microwave ovens... Hi again. Does anybody know if a microwave oven has any ability to serve as a sterilizing/sanitizing device for small items such as stoppers, hoses, tubes, etc...? I mean other than boiling-off any of the water that may be clinging to such items. I was wondering if the microwaves themselves are of any use to killing / deactivating the microorganisms that might infect beer. I agree there are much more energy efficient methods of sanitization, but would like to know anyway. -Davin Lim (limd at sulu.colorado.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: 04 May 91 08:44:53 EDT From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com> Subject: fruit in beer In hbd 627 Jeff Chambers writes: >My recent batch, a Rasberry Stout, after transfer to the secondary, laid >dormant for two weeks. The fermentation then took off just when we felt >that the fermentation was over. I'm wondering: Do the complex sugars found >in fruit beers somehow delay fermentation? We normally use Munton & Fison >Yeast and we have not noticed activity of this kind in any of our other brews. You betcha. Thinkk of the fermentation of wine and mead. Those products take an extreemly long time to ferment. Chip Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 5 May 91 14:38:54 -0400 From: randy at aplcomm.jhuapl.edu (RANDALL SCHRICKEL (NCE) x7661) Subject: San Diego pubs, etc. Oh no, another one of those "Where to go in xxx" posts. Sorry, but I can't post to any (rec, misc, etc.) newsgroups. So, for my ten day trip to San Diego - any suggestions? Brew pubs, micros, etc., would be great, but also any information on any good drinking/eating establishments that I should try to hit while there. Thanx. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 5 May 91 17:24:21 PDT From: roborr at polari (Robert Orr) Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #629 (May 03, 1991) HI! My copy of HBD629 seems to be rather garbled. could you send it again? Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 5 May 91 21:54:12 MDT From: dworkin at habitrail.Solbourne.COM (Dieter Muller) Subject: siphoning OK, it's ignorant beginner question time once again.... How do you start the siphoning from a fermenter? The problem, as I understand it, is to pull enough of a vacuum in the siphon tube that the liquid fills the tube. You then get whatever pulled the vacuum out of the way (preferably replaced by whatever you're siphoning into), and let gravity do the rest of the work. Is there some convenient vacuum pump available, or does everyone just suck on the tube? The latter approach seems pretty much garanteed to contaminate things.... Thanks. Dworkin "Your spatial laws are ok, but God, the choices you give us." -- Deborah Blau dworkin at solbourne.com Flamer's Hotline: (303) 678-4624 Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #630, 05/06/91 ************************************* -------
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