---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Lagering lagers (Randy Tidd)
  Oatmeal, Frank Jones (Russ Gelinas)
  Bottling and cleanliness (Joe Kendall)
  lost issues & bitter taste
  Trub, washing yeast, BJCP exam, siphon starting (BAUGHMANKR)
  Price lists ("David E. Husk")
  Trub, washing yeast, BJCP exam, siphon starting (BAUGHMANKR)
  Siphoning Method (Dave Huyink)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #630 (May 06, 1991)  (hersh)
  Wort straining (Bob Hettmansperger)
  Wort straining
  Re: Miller's homebrew book (Darryl Richman)
  Poison beer letters, siphon starting (krweiss)
  Re: studying for the BJCP Exam (Darryl Richman)
  Hunter wiring (Ken Johnson)
  Portland (OR) area brews (Will Allen)
  Re: extract prices by the barrel? (Tom Quinn 4-nnnn)
  Comment/Two questions: temp. and dark grain boil (Dale Veeneman)
  siphoning (florianb)
  Re: Oregon Brew Bashing (C.R. Saikley)
  Round One! (Martin A. Lodahl)
  One Goat (C.R. Saikley)
  safety of bleach as sterilant (Chip Hitchcock)
  Sumerian Beer (Michael Tighe)
  ale temps (chip upsal)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 May 91 08:59:37 EDT
From: rtidd at ccels2.mitre.org (Randy Tidd)
Subject: Lagering lagers


I'm on my 6th or 7th batch of homebrew now, and wanted to make a lager.
I decided to use Papaizan's recipe for Rocky Raccoon's Honey Lager with
slight modifications; I used 4 lbs of light extract (Alexander's) and
3 lbs of clover honey. I brewed it and pitched a liquid bavarian lager
yeast.  Once the fermentation got going, I put the fermenter in the
fridge at about 40F.  The fermentation went real slow once it cooled
down, then stopped after about 3 days.  I decided it was too cold, so
I warmed up the fridge a little (from 'E' to 'C' on the little dial
inside -- wonderful gauge, that) and racked the beer to a secondary.
Now it's been going for about 4-1/2 more weeks!  The lock has been
glubbing about once every 20-30 seconds the whole time.  Now the beer
is clear enough that I can see little bubbles inside as it ferments.

Will this beer be ready to drink anytime this year? This is taking much
much longer than I expected.  I was hoping to have a homebrew to celebrate
graduation with, but it looks like I'm gonna miss my mark by about a
month.  I was going to make another lager that was slightly richer
(6-7 lbs of extracts + specialty grains), but if this supposedly "light"
beer is taking 5-6 weeks to ferment, I hate to think how long a richer
beer would take.  Is this normal?

I'm not worrying, i'm just thirsty.


Randy Tidd
rtidd at mwunix.mitre.org

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Date:    Mon, 6 May 1991 9:33:19 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: Oatmeal, Frank Jones

  I've got 2 lbs. of steel-cut oatmeal, and plan to make an oatmeal
stout.  I understand that the oatmeal needs to be mashed, something I
have never done.  Does oatmeal have enough enzymes by itself, or do
I need to include some pale malt in the mash?
  I tried some Frank Jones Reserves Extra Special Bitter this weekend.
It tasted *very* much like Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Delicious!  It is
contract brewed by Catamount brewery in VT., for the Frank Jones company
based in Portsmouth, NH.  F.J. had a *big* brewery at the begining of
the century. (I lived in his house for awhile; there were 3 apartments
and an insurance company in the building.  Big house.)  Anyway, there
has been a Frank Jones Pale Ale out, also made by Catamount, that's good,
but nothing super.  The ESB is great.  I've only seen in it NH liquor
stores. The store tag says it has 12% alcohol, but that's wrong. They must
mean 12 proof. Tom Hardy Ale is listed at 10.3% alcohol, and Corsendonk
Monk ale was 7.9%, and the ESB was not as strong as those.  But I still
highly recommended it, even at "only" 6% alcohol.

Russ Gelinas

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Date: 05/06/91
From: Joe Kendall <SYSHJK%GSU.EDU at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Bottling and cleanliness

 I'm about to bottle my first batch of homebrew in about a week.  I'd like to
 clean and sanitize my bottles the night before I bottle.  I'm worried that
 doing this will allow the bottles to get contaminated.  How long can I expect
 a bottle to remain sanitary when it's sitting on a counter in a clean kitchen?
 Should I cover the bottles?  Store them upside down in their cardboard box?
 Thanks in advance for the help.

 
 

Return to table of contents


Date:     Mon, 6 May 91 10:59:08 EDT
From: William Boyle (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>

Subject: lost issues & bitter taste

   Could somebody send me, I think the last two digests.  The last one I
received was "2 May 91 Are you SURE yo Homebrew Digest #628 (May 02,".  As
of Monday at 9:00 est I have not received any others.  Thank you!

   Also I bottled My first batch on Sunday 5/5/91, I used Coopers
Australian hopped extract and Wyeast (British), I had trouble starting the
siphon and had a "back wash" when the siphon broke.  This kicked up a bunch
of the sediment, I bottled anyway.  I tasted the stuff I used to take the
hydrometer reading and it had a bitter taste, not a hop bitterness.  Could
this be from the sediment being mixed in, I know if it is just sediment
taste it will settle out.  If this is not the sediment will this taste age
out, any comments will be appreciated.

                                            Bill Boyle

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Date: Mon, 6 May 1991 12:18 EST
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: Trub, washing yeast, BJCP exam, siphon starting

Bill Crick writes:

>Source of phenols? Most likely is residue from Clorine bleach
>creating chloro-phenols. These have flavor thresholds in the parts per
>BILLION!!

Not exactly.  Chloro-phenols are a special type of phenols.  So you
can have a problem with phenols in your beer and not have them be
chloro-phenols.  As for chloro-phenols having flavor thresholds in the
parts per BILLION, that's exactly right.  I made a beer that suffered
from chloro-phenols once.  WOW!  It was like drinking chlorine!
Nowhere close to "clinical".

Geoffrey Woods writes:

>"The trouble with trub" (sorry can't remember the authors name)
> which stated for most type of beers the cold break trub is
> actually good for a limited time (you would not lager on trub).

Though others probably have opinions to the contrary, I would agree that
fermenting on cold break trub is O.K.  I've been doing it for years.
I am the BrewCap man, though, so  the cold break gets drained away
relatively early in the fermentation process, doesn't sit around for a
couple of weeks, and I've noticed no adverse flavors as a result.
Racking to a secondary is probably a good idea if you're not using
something like a BrewCap.  Cold break is protein.  And we all know
what protein does if left at room temperature for a couple of weeks!

>Any comments on how to eliminate hot break trub from the wort
>and why the digest and Miller say to separate the wort from the
>cold break??

As for separating hot break trub from the wort, after the boil, stir,
stir, stir the wort in the kettle creating a whirlpool.  Let this
settle for about 10 - 15 minutes.  The whirlpool will force all
precipitate matter to a cone in the bottom of the kettle.  Then
siphon, don't pour the wort into the fermenter.  By siphoning,
especially if you hold or suspend the pick-up tube close to the top of
the liquid as you go, you will get the cleanest possible run-off.
Never pour your wort into a fermenter, not even through one of those
fine mesh bags, if you're worried about getting hot break into the
fermenter.  And you should be worried about that.

Tom Quinn asked about washing yeast:

Yeast is washed by shaking it in an acidified solution (tartaric acid,
phosphoric, or sulphuric).  It is generally not recommended, even in
commercial breweries, because of all the variable factors involved-
the choice and concentration of the acidifier, and the length of time
the yeast is in contact with the acid.  In addition, while it
may kill some of the bacteria present, it also has an adverse effect
on the viability of the yeast.  In short, don't wash.  Just be your
normal, careful, sanitizing fiend when handling the wort after the
boiling stage.  Most micros reuse yeast 5 or 6 times without worrying
a great deal.

Dieter Muller asked about starting a siphon:

Stick a short length (2 ") of copper tubing in the end of your siphon
hose, suck on the copper and remove it before the wort comes.  If you
hold the end of the siphon hose *above* the top level of the beer when
you do this, the wort will never rush into your mouth.  Pinch the hose
when the wort is a couple of inches away from your mouth, remove the
copper tubing, drop the hose below the top level of the beer in the
fermenter and you're off and running.

Studying for the BJCP exam:

You'll be quizzed on malt (the different types, how they're made and
used in making beer),  hops (the different kinds, alpha levels, how
they add to the flavor and stability of beer, which kinds are used in
which styles of beer), yeast (the different types, ideal fermentation
temperatures, which type for which style of beer, characteristics,
etc.), and sometimes water (water treatment for different styles of
beer).  There are usually several questions on beer styles (difference
between ales and lagers, name and describe several ale styles, name
and describe several lager styles,  describe a couple of Belgian style
ales, etc.)  You might get a question on how to brew a particular
style of beer and give a 5-gallon recipe.  You usually get some off
the wall question concerning an obscure commercial beer: name two
breweries in Czechoslovakia, four breweries in Japan, two breweries in
Scotland, the strongest beer in the world, the strongest beer in
America, what's a Steinbeer?, etc.)  Sometimes a question that zeroes
in on some aspect of the brewing process (why boil beer, why add hops
to beer, why an ale instead of a lager yeast, why Munich malt instead
of crystal malt, why soft instead of hard water...)  There's always a
question on the BJCP program (how are points assigned in a national or
regional competition, what are the different levels one can attain...)

You'll be asked to judge 4 different beers and judge them as you would
in a competition.  Some will be commercial beers, some are homebrewed
beers, and there's usually a problem beer in the midst as well.

You have three hours to take the exam.  The test is quite a bear!
Your answers need to be precise and concise, yet thorough in order to
get it finished and do justice to all the questions.

The written portion is 70% of your score.  The evaluation of the beers
is 30% .

As for how to study...Get a copy of _The World Guide to Beer_ by
Michael Jackson and absorb as much of it as you can for the beer style
questions.  Read something like _The Big Book of Brewing_ by Dave
Line, or _Brewing Lager Beer_ by Greg Noonan, or _The Complete
Handbook of Brewing_ by Dave Miller for discussions on the technical
side of brewing, recipes, etc.  And get the latest copy of the flyer
that describes the BJCP program and memorize it.  (I have some copies
and will send one to you if you send me your snail mail address)

Hope this helps.

Kinney

Return to table of contents


Date:     Mon May  6 13:03:02 1991
From: "David E. Husk" <deh7g at newton.acc.virginia.edu>
Subject:  Price lists



	In the last digest there was a list of prices for various
products from various beer supply places.  Of course I lost the info.
Could someone mail me the list?  Thanks.

			Husk at virginia.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 May 1991 12:18 EST
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: Trub, washing yeast, BJCP exam, siphon starting

Bill Crick writes:

>Source of phenols? Most likely is residue from Clorine bleach
>creating chloro-phenols. These have flavor thresholds in the parts per
>BILLION!!

Not exactly.  Chloro-phenols are a special type of phenols.  So you
can have a problem with phenols in your beer and not have them be
chloro-phenols.  As for chloro-phenols having flavor thresholds in the
parts per BILLION, that's exactly right.  I made a beer that suffered
from chloro-phenols once.  WOW!  It was like drinking chlorine!
Nowhere close to "clinical".

Geoffrey Woods writes:

>"The trouble with trub" (sorry can't remember the authors name)
> which stated for most type of beers the cold break trub is
> actually good for a limited time (you would not lager on trub).

Though others probably have opinions to the contrary, I would agree that
fermenting on cold break trub is O.K.  I've been doing it for years.
I am the BrewCap man, though, so  the cold break gets drained away
relatively early in the fermentation process, doesn't sit around for a
couple of weeks, and I've noticed no adverse flavors as a result.
Racking to a secondary is probably a good idea if you're not using
something like a BrewCap.  Cold break is protein.  And we all know
what protein does if left at room temperature for a couple of weeks!

>Any comments on how to eliminate hot break trub from the wort
>and why the digest and Miller say to separate the wort from the
>cold break??

As for separating hot break trub from the wort, after the boil, stir,
stir, stir the wort in the kettle creating a whirlpool.  Let this
settle for about 10 - 15 minutes.  The whirlpool will force all
precipitate matter to a cone in the bottom of the kettle.  Then
siphon, don't pour the wort into the fermenter.  By siphoning,
especially if you hold or suspend the pick-up tube close to the top of
the liquid as you go, you will get the cleanest possible run-off.
Never pour your wort into a fermenter, not even through one of those
fine mesh bags, if you're worried about getting hot break into the
fermenter.  And you should be worried about that.

Tom Quinn asked about washing yeast:

Yeast is washed by shaking it in an acidified solution (tartaric acid,
phosphoric, or sulphuric).  It is generally not recommended, even in
commercial breweries, because of all the variable factors involved-
the choice and concentration of the acidifier, and the length of time
the yeast is in contact with the acid.  In addition, while it
may kill some of the bacteria present, it also has an adverse effect
on the viability of the yeast.  In short, don't wash.  Just be your
normal, careful, sanitizing fiend when handling the wort after the
boiling stage.  Most micros reuse yeast 5 or 6 times without worrying
a great deal.

Dieter Muller asked about starting a siphon:

Stick a short length (2 ") of copper tubing in the end of your siphon
hose, suck on the copper and remove it before the wort comes.  If you
hold the end of the siphon hose *above* the top level of the beer when
you do this, the wort will never rush into your mouth.  Pinch the hose
when the wort is a couple of inches away from your mouth, remove the
copper tubing, drop the hose below the top level of the beer in the
fermenter and you're off and running.

Studying for the BJCP exam:

You'll be quizzed on malt (the different types, how they're made and
used in making beer),  hops (the different kinds, alpha levels, how
they add to the flavor and stability of beer, which kinds are used in
which styles of beer), yeast (the different types, ideal fermentation
temperatures, which type for which style of beer, characteristics,
etc.), and sometimes water (water treatment for different styles of
beer).  There are usually several questions on beer styles (difference
between ales and lagers, name and describe several ale styles, name
and describe several lager styles,  describe a couple of Belgian style
ales, etc.)  You might get a question on how to brew a particular
style of beer and give a 5-gallon recipe.  You usually get some off
the wall question concerning an obscure commercial beer: name two
breweries in Czechoslovakia, four breweries in Japan, two breweries in
Scotland, the strongest beer in the world, the strongest beer in
America, what's a Steinbeer?, etc.)  Sometimes a question that zeroes
in on some aspect of the brewing process (why boil beer, why add hops
to beer, why an ale instead of a lager yeast, why Munich malt instead
of crystal malt, why soft instead of hard water...)  There's always a
question on the BJCP program (how are points assigned in a national or
regional competition, what are the different levels one can attain...)

You'll be asked to judge 4 different beers and judge them as you would
in a competition.  Some will be commercial beers, some are homebrewed
beers, and there's usually a problem beer in the midst as well.

You have three hours to take the exam.  The test is quite a bear!
Your answers need to be precise and concise, yet thorough in order to
get it finished and do justice to all the questions.

The written portion is 70% of your score.  The evaluation of the beers
is 30% .

As for how to study...Get a copy of _The World Guide to Beer_ by
Michael Jackson and absorb as much of it as you can for the beer style
questions.  Read something like _The Big Book of Brewing_ by Dave
Line, or _Brewing Lager Beer_ by Greg Noonan, or _The Complete
Handbook of Brewing_ by Dave Miller for discussions on the technical
side of brewing, recipes, etc.  And get the latest copy of the flyer
that describes the BJCP program and memorize it.  (I have some copies
and will send one to you if you send me your snail mail address)

Hope this helps.

Kinney

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 6 May 91 12:00:56 -0500
From: huyink at npdiss3.StPaul.NCR.COM (Dave Huyink)
Subject: Siphoning Method

In hb 630, Dieter Muller (dworkin at habitrail.Solbourne.COM) asked:

>How do you start the siphoning from a fermenter?  The problem, as I
>understand it, is to pull enough of a vacuum in the siphon tube that
>the liquid fills the tube.  You then get whatever pulled the vacuum
>out of the way (preferably replaced by whatever you're siphoning
>into), and let gravity do the rest of the work.  Is there some
>convenient vacuum pump available, or does everyone just suck on the
>tube?  The latter approach seems pretty much garanteed to contaminate
>things....

I siphon twice with every batch, once from the primary fermenter (food
grade plastic) to the secondary (glass carboy) and once more from the 
secondary to the bottles.  I start the siphon by sucking on the tube.
I always clean the tube before each use.  Even though the end of the
tube is inside your mouth, you can prevent it from touching the inside
of your mouth, so the only point of contact between your mouth and the
tube will be on the outside of the tube where it will not contact the
beer.

With very little practice, you can start the siphon and pull the tube
out of your mouth before the beer actually reaches the end of the tube.
This is even easier with a clear plastic tube because you can see the
beer start down the tube.  My early experience in siphoning was in
siphoning gasoline through a non-transparent hose, so I learned 
quickly how to start the siphon without getting a mouth full of gas. 
Since the hose was not the cleanest (or even tastiest) this was also 
where I learned to keep the contact between my mouth and the siphon tube
to a minimum.

Once I start the siphon for bottling, I am careful not to break the
siphon, and with practice it can be done.  When a bottle is nearly full
I move it to about the level of the beer in the carboy, stopping the
siphoning action as the bottle becomes full, but not far enough to 
break the siphon.

I am probably more careful than I have to be about sanitation since at
the bottling stage the beer is already fermented (except for the little
bit that carbonates the beer in the bottle) and any bacteria that got
on the tube from your mouth and subsequently into the beer should be 
taken care of by the alcohol.

What have I learned from this?  Siphoning beer is more desirable than
siphoning gasoline, but the principle is the same for both!

dh


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Date: Mon, 06 May 91 13:32:56 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #630 (May 06, 1991) 


>>My brew partner wants to brew our next batch with unhopped
>>extract and add no hops.  I think this will not turn out very
>>good.  Has anybody tried this and how did it turn out.
>>
>>                                   Bill Boyle
>
>Yuch! What shall we call this strange concoction ?
>
>IMHO Beer w/o the bitter would be like Chocolate w/o the sweet. Though
>I'm sure that history would provide some precedence for such a brew, I
>wouldn't recommend it.

Nonsense. Beer was brewed without hops for a long time. Many of the Munich
styles use very low hopping rates. This simply will give you a beer with a full
sweet palatte. In most beers the hop bitterness offsets the sweetness, but in
some styles (say Munchener Helles) a sweeter, lower alcohol beer is the mark,
though typically some hops are always used, just not enough to impart any
substantial bitterness or aroma.


Florian, about those beers you tasted, quit pulling punches, tell us what you
*REALLY* think of them :-) :-)

> I know we have at least one beer judge on the forum (Darryl Richman),
> any others?
Yeah I'm ranked at the National level now.

>How do you start the siphoning from a fermenter?
Well I rinse with vodka, then spit siphon. Now I've never had a problem doing
it like this, but before everyone who ever read this forum flames me, I would
recommend you try one of the other methods that are sure to be posted......

JaH



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Date: 6 May 91 12:51:34
From: Bob Hettmansperger <Bob_Hettmansperger at klondike.bellcore.com>
Subject: Wort straining

Time:     01:37 PM           Date:    5/6/91

Subject:  Wort straining

I recently bought a glass carboy to replace my plastic food-tub for
single-stage
fermenting.  I also have a rather large funnel with a metal screen
near the
bottom to strain the wort as I pour it into the carboy.  Well, I tried it for
the first time last night, and when I went to pour the boiled wort into the
carboy, I found that the screen got clogged almost instantly from the hops.
Not really knowing what to do, I just ran the wort through a regular kitchen
strainer to get the big stuff out, and poured the rest into the carboy through 
the funnel without using the screen (gee, I hope I didn't end up contaminating
the wort in the process...).  My questions then, are this:

1) Why sell me the stupid little screen in the first place (I doubt most 
   homebrew stores are out to rip anyone off)

2) As long as I bottle as soon as fermentation stops, do I need to strain the
   wort at all?  I've brewed a few batches before without straining at all,
   and they seemed ok.  But, then again, maybe they could have been better. 

Thanks,

Bob Hettmansperger   (reply to, bobh at twinkie.bellcore.com please)

P.S.  The clear glass carboy if the way to go.  Imagine, all those other
batches
      where I couldn't see all the cool stuff going on inside the
carboy!



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Date: Mon, 6 May 91 10:55:58 -0700
From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
Subject: Re: Miller's homebrew book

> >From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
>    When ZYMURGY reviewed this, the chief rap was that the book was very
> opinionated, taking vigorous positions on matters that brewers disagree on
> without backing them up with solid research. This is certainly true;
> consider -"iodine testing for starch conversion is a waste of time"-.
> Miller also disdains extract brewing; most of his recipes are for full-mash
> brewing, with partial-mash versions appended. It's definitely a book that
> would scare away most beginners.

As author of the review that appeared in Zymurgy, let me say that I always
recommend Miller's book over CJoHB because I feel that one is likely to
produce a better beer, even at first, using Miller.  I wish he (or his
editor, whom he indicted in a reply letter in Zymurgy) had picked
a different title, one that was not reminiscent of CJoHB, and one that
better described the contents.  I agree that his recipes and style
descriptions are superior;  I use them in talking to a BJCP prep class
we give, to help people learn how ingredients and process make styles.

I have grown to dislike CJoHB for its sappy humor and approach that
says "this isn't a serious hobby".  Perhaps I'm just too serious.
Anyway, Miller is often on my desk when I'm working up a recipe, but
Papazian rarely is.  I like it a lot, and I now wish that I hadn't been
as strong in my review about the book's problems, because it clearly came
over as a negative review.  But, for me, my conclusion is still true:  I
use Miller along with Noonan consistently.

		--Darryl Richman


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Date: Mon, 6 May 91 11:12:50 -0700
From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Subject: Poison beer letters, siphon starting

Florian (not the saint -- the other Florian) writes:

>1	Portland Ale.  Muddy, floating debris, autolyzed, a rotten
>	egg buried under a chicken coop for 10 years, unbalanced
>	bitterness, of interest only to Philistine swine.
(other vitriol deleted)

Just had to say, "Thanks, Florian!" I really enjoyed your reviews. Best
laugh I had in a week. I've got to find a vintage can of Brew 102 to send
you for evaluation...


Dieter Mueller asks:

>OK, it's ignorant beginner question time once again....
>
>How do you start the siphoning from a fermenter?  The problem, as I
>understand it, is to pull enough of a vacuum in the siphon tube that

I fill the siphon tube with water from the tap. Stick one end in the
carboy, the other in wherever the beer is supposed to go. Since the tube is
already filled with liquid, no vacuum is needed.


Ken Weiss
Manager of Instruction
Computing Services
U.C. Davis
Davis, CA 95616

916/752-5554
krweiss at ucdavis.edu


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Date: Mon, 6 May 91 11:36:17 -0700
From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
Subject: Re: studying for the BJCP Exam

> Is anyone out there planning to take the Beer Judge exam at the AHA
> conference next month?  I know we have at least one beer judge on the
> forum (Darryl Richman), any others?  If so, do you have any study/exam-
> related advice for those of us aspiring to judgeship?  Any and all comments
> would be graciously accepted and appreciated.

I'll give you my standard advice.  The test is not trivial, and passing
requires a good knowledge of the field.  The test is composed of 10
short essay questions and 3 or 4 beers to judge.

The essay questions cover ingredients, process, styles, and faults.
Expect questions like "What is the lifecycle of yeast?" or "Describe
each of the following malts, how they are made and what they are used
for: a) chocolate malt, b) crystal, c) Munich, d) Cara-pils".  Be sure
to study up on beer styles, they've been asking more questions (e.g.,
"Describe the Altbier style") about styles on recent tests.  I think
that it is important to be able to answer the questions succinctly.
Clearly, one could write a book (some have!) in answer to these kinds
of questions.  However, a shorter answer that includes all of the
pertinent details demonstrates breadth and depth of knowledge more
than an extended one.  There is always a question about the program
itself, so get a copy of the booklet and read through it.

The tasting portion is very similar to what you'd get in a real
judging.  You are presented with the beer and told what category it was
entered into.  You have a judging sheet to fill out.  Perception is, of
course, important, but so is neatness, tact, and feedback to the brewer
regarding any faults or tuning.  It is likely that at least one beer
will have a noticable fault.

The written portion counts for 70%, the tasting, 30%.  The test runs
for 3 hours, but that should be more than sufficient.

		--Darryl Richman


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Date: Mon, 6 May 91 11:46:42 PDT
From: kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson)
Subject: Hunter wiring

I just bought a Hunter Energy Monitor and found that it's for a 24V system.
And my fridge thermostat is 120V.  What can I do?  Has anyone any wiring
tricks to get around this?

kj

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Date: Mon, 06 May 91 11:50:00 -0700
From: Will Allen <willa at hpvclwa.vcd.hp.com>
Subject: Portland (OR) area brews

florianb at chip.cna.tek.com reviews some local (to me) brews in the 
bottle he bought at a grocery store:

>1	Portland Ale.  Muddy, floating debris, autolyzed, a rotten
>	egg buried under a chicken coop for 10 years, unbalanced
>	bitterness, of interest only to Philistine swine.
>
>2	Bridgeport Coho.  Murky, stale, bitterness akin to quinine
>	without the redeeming medicinal quality, "sweet bile",
>	aroma of rotting manure, bathtub odor.  The weekend drink
>	of desert oil-drilling equipment mechanics.


Florian:

You really should'a visited a brewpub instead of a grocery
store.  The stuff available on tap here is great.  I've bought
many a bottle if Portland Ale w/o ever a problem.  The stuff is light,
moderately hoppy, and has a nice clean finish.  Most local beers 'round
here have chill haze (I prefer to drink 'em warm enough to eliminate it),
but it doen't affect the flavor.

My wife bought a six pack of the Coho and it tasted kinda fishy.  Perhaps
it's supposed to -- after all, it's named Coho.  I havn't tried it on tap yet.


. . .Will

Will Allen
HP Vancouver Division
willa at vcd.hp.com  or  ...!hplabs!vcd!willa


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Date: Mon, 6 May 91 13:19:55 CDT
From: quinnt at turing.med.ge.com (Tom Quinn 4-nnnn)
Subject: Re: extract prices by the barrel?

   Date: Fri, 3 May 91 09:52:25 -0700
   From: John S. Watson - FSC <watson at pioneer.arc.nasa.gov>
   ...
   But the owners always are a little touchy about how much they paid for it. 
   (One said he'd sell it to me for about $1.20 per pound).

   So my question is, 
   "How much do thos 55 gal barrels of malt extract syrup cost the homebrew
   supply stores?" 
   And if I had a sudden desire to make 583 gallons of beer, 
   could and where would I procure it?


Some friends and I recently purchased some 60-pound, 5 gallon buckets
of malt.  We paid wholesale prices, and picked it up it directly from
the processor.  Our price was $50.00/bucket, with a minimum purchase
of three (or maybe it was five).  That works out to $0.83/pound, which
we were quite pleased with.  Unfortunately this was a one-time deal
that I don't think we can repeat, but it does give you an idea of what
a supply shop must pay.

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Date: Mon, 06 May 91 15:51:24 EDT
From: Dale Veeneman <dev1 at gte.com>
Subject: Comment/Two questions: temp. and dark grain boil

   A while ago, there was some discussion on the viability of 
yeast after a long secondary storage.  I thought I would relate 
this:
   Around last Thanksgiving, I brewed an IPA with Irish Wyeast 
(1084), and bottled around Christmas (4 day primary, 3.5 week 
secondary).  Unfortunately, my cellar (where the fermenters are) 
got pretty cold around then (low 50's), so after bottling, I 
left the bottles upstairs for a couple weeks, then everything 
went back into the cellar where there's more room.  The beer 
never carbonated.  Occasionally, I would try a bottle but it was 
always flat.  This spring, as the weather warmed, I tipped both 
cases upside down and shook.  Now, a few weeks later, upon 
opening and pouring, there is a beautiful creamy head and the 
nicest carbonation you'd ever want.

   Which brings up my first question (also related to some 
recent discussion): if you could pick any temperature to ferment 
an ale, what would it be?  It most likely would depend on the 
strain - does anyone know for different Wyeast strains, for 
example?

   Second question (also related to recent discussion): I know 
that dark grains have no fermentables, so there is no need to 
mash.  However, Papazian recommends cracking all speciality 
grains, put in the cold water, bring to boil, and then remove, 
while Burch says to put uncracked dark grains directly in the 
boil for the whole time.  I've done it both ways, and while I 
haven't noticed strong tannins with Burch's method, I still 
wonder what's really better? 

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Date: Mon, 06 May 91 13:14:32 PDT
From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com
Subject: siphoning

In yesterday's HBD, Dieter Muller asks:

>How do you start the siphoning from a fermenter?  The problem, as I

>into), and let gravity do the rest of the work.  Is there some
>convenient vacuum pump available, or does everyone just suck on the

Yes, just suck on the tube.

>tube?  The latter approach seems pretty much garanteed to contaminate
>things....

That depends on what you had been sucking on prior to transferring your
wort or beer.  

I have read in and heard from various sources that this practice can
lead to contamination.  But I can't find any scrap of evidence that
that is the case.  I used to take a swig of whiskey before sucking
on the racking tube, but that got expensive, since all I have 
around the house is Bushmill's, and it tasted so good one swig 
wasn't enough.  I stopped being paranoid about tube sucking and just
did it anyway.  Somehow, there are a lot more important factors
in good brewing to consider than this one.

florian


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Date: Mon, 6 May 91 13:59:34 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Re: Oregon Brew Bashing




From: florianb at chip.cna.tek.com


>The trouble is, having microbreweries legal isn't any guarantee that
>the beer quality will improve.  In fact, here in Oregon there are
>several breweries producing ale of such poor quality that if I had
>made it in my own kitchen, I would have poured it out.  Some of this
>stuff *should* be illegal!!

Procedes to bash excellent breweries like Bridgeport, Portland etc......

I suggest that the problem was that you got your beers in a grocery
store. Microbrewed beer should be enjoyed fresh, but unfortunately,
grocery stores often sell stale beer. 

If you are interested in checking out these beers, find one of their 
many draft accounts at the very least. Of course, for the best brews,
go to the breweries themselves. The cask conditioned ales at Bridgeport
are truly wonderful.

And now an approximate quote :

	"Bridgeport serves the finest examples of cask conditioned
	ales I've had in America."

				Michael Jackson


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Date: Mon, 6 May 91 14:46:11 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Round One!

The first round of judging of the AHA Nationals is over, and in the
West, at least, it was grand.  The Anchor brewery was the perfect
place for it, and the team of Russ Wigglesworth, Brook Ostrom, and
Paddy Giffen did an outstanding job of organizing it.  Everything
ran like clockwork.  The stewards had the right beers in the right
places at the right time at the right temperature (we checked), the
judges had no unreasonably long flights to judge, all judges I was
seated with seemed VERY competent, and if the beers I entered all
flop, it's my own damn fault.

In between judging sessions there were always interesting people
talking about interesting things (beer), affording, in some cases,
the opportunity to connect a face with a familiar name.  HBD's own
Darryl Richman and C.R. Saikley, for example, are even better in
real life than in print.  Knots of brewers stood by the windows
of the fermentation rooms, watching Steam or Liberty churn.  Folks,
it was marvelous.

= Martin A. Lodahl   			  Pacific*Bell Staff Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Mon, 6 May 91 15:31:27 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: One Goat


From: 02-May-1991 0940 <hannan at gnpike.enet.dec.com>

>	I recently bought some Ayinger Maibock (May Bock) beer from 
	West Germany.  It is a very bitter very heavy very strong delicious 
	brew which I had never heard of.   Apparently "bock" doesn't mean
	dark, as this brew has a basic dense, golden color.
	
	Anyone know the definition of May bock beer, or bock in general ?

Aying is a pleasant little town just outside of Munich. I had the pleasure
of touring the brewery in 1982, and they do make some fine brews. Seek out
Ayinger Ur-Weizen, it's wonderful stuff.

In Germany, a bock is defined as a brew that starts at a gravity of over
a certain amount (1.065 I believe). If the gravity is 1.075 (?) or more,
then it is christened dopplebock. This nomenclature is not adhered to in
the US.

If it doesn't specify otherwise, a bock is typically a dark brew. In
general, a pale colored bock is a Hellbock, but is nonetheless a heavenly
brew. Maibocks are usually pale, although they can vary somewhat in color.
For a domestic Hellbock that does its Bavarian brethren proud, look for
Sierra Nevada Pale Bock, the proverbial nectar of the gods.


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Date: Mon, 6 May 91 17:22:08 EDT
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: safety of bleach as sterilant

   The problem with chlorine in your drinking water is that you drink it
(unless you boil the water first); ozone is much more unstable, so it tends
to sterilize the water and dissipate. Homebrew sterilizing is a two-step
process: soak in sterilant, then rinse \\thoroughly// in hot water; you
shouldn't be consuming any significant amount of bleach. B-Brite is a
nasty substance too---I wouldn't say you're any safer drinking it.
   Note also that the chemistry is somewhat different---water plants use
chlorine gas instead of sodium hypochlorite (although I can't guess which is
more likely to yield THM's).

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Date: Mon, 6 May 91 18:54:59 EDT
From: tighe at inmet.inmet.com (Michael Tighe)
Subject: Sumerian Beer


C.R. Saikley (grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET) writes:
> The Anchor Brewing Co made a special Sumerian Brew. ...
> I put some in my cellar to see how it would develop.  It went off 
> very quickly. This brew had the shortest shelf life of any I've known.
> Moral of the story : Boil your wort and add hops.

I visited the Anchor Brewing Co specifically to find out more about
their sumerian beer.  I did get a taste from their bar (he had a few
bottles left) and it had already gone south.

Their explanation for the short shelf-life is twofold:  

    a)  No hops.  To brew commercial beer in the U.S., you are required to 
	brew beer with hops.  They had to get a special permit to make the 
	sumerian beer without hops.  Hops has specific anti-bacterial activity
	which is one of the reasons it was added to beer to begin with.

    b)  Flash-pasturize.  Anchor normally only heats their finished product
	to 140 deg for 20 seconds to get a shelf life of six -to- nine
	months (if I remember correctly).  For the Sumerian Beer, they
	didn't do even that since it was a one-batch item intended for
	a conference (Micro-Brewery Conference in S.F.).

The bottle I tasted had definite signs of having gone sour, but I did
still taste the dates and the grains used to brew it.  It was a neat
experiment and I hope they continue to do specialty brews.  In fact,
I hope they make the sumerian beer again - I want a "fresh" bottle.

The Anchor Brewing Co. gives great tours and very fine samples at the
end of the tour!  :-)


Intermetrics Microsystems Software Inc.
Cambridge, MA 02138 (USA)
email: tighe at inmet.inmet.com                  

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Date: 06 May 91 22:54:54 EDT
From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com>
Subject: ale temps

John Mirely writes:


>I have been fermenting my lager beer in the basement. The
>temperature has been 61 and hasn't changed more than a degree
>either way. I want to brew my first batch of  ale. I'll be using a
>Muton and Fison Olde Ale kit.      Should I do the fermenting upstairs
>where it will be warmer but the temperature is likely to vary more (5-10
>degrees) or keep doing it in the basement at a steady 61 degrees? My
>inclination is to do it in the basement and be patient.


61 deg.  sounds fine for an ale.  I think of most ales fermenting at
celler tempature and lagers fermenting at 'fridge temps.


Chip


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #631, 05/07/91
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