---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Dave Miller's Book (Mike Schmidt 314-872-3168)
  Los Vagas brewpubs? (JBAUER)
  HBD No. 632 ("Dr. John")
  Dark/Black grain fermentables (Dale Veeneman)
  Hard Cider (GKUSHMER)
  Reccomendations (DAVID)
  Room temperature lager (James P. Buchman)
  Re: bottle contamination worries (Michael Zentner)
  Cheap ? brewpots (Michael Zentner)
  re: sterilizing with a microwave (Darryl Richman)
  Brewkettle (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Hop growing (flowers)
  About Hops ... (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Brewpot (flowers)
  Re: hop growing question (Pete Soper)
  hop growing question (Carl West x4449)
  AHA First Round (hersh)
  Brewkettles (C.R. Saikley)
  IHMO (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Beer Bibliography (BMENK)
  Funny smells (kjohnson)
  Cultural Exchange (C.R. Saikley)
  Please give phone #'s!!! (Brian Bliss)
  Re:  lagering lagers (florianb)
  Coleman coolers? ("N. Zentena")
  looking for kegging suggestions (mbharrington)
  spaten (James Hensley)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 May 1991 21:45 PST
From: Mike Schmidt 314-872-3168 < at hplabs.hpl.hp.com, at hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com: at MDCBBS.COM:SCHMIDT at AEC830>
Subject: Dave Miller's Book

> I own Papazian's book and love it dearly.  I'd also like to get something
> else, just for a second opinion and more recipes.  I'm considering
> Miller's book, but just thought I'd see what y'all thought of it before
> I paid for it.  Any comments?

IMHO, Dave Miller's book is wonderful!  However, keep in mind that I was
asking myself a similar question (i.e. I have been using TCJoHB as my bible
for extract brewing, now where do I go for more info and an INTRO to mashing?)

One thing was clear to me after joining a local homebrew club; the all-grain
brews tasted better then most extract brews (my opinion).  Miller's book is
letting me dabble with partial mashes now.  I am not geared up equipment wise
or mentally prepared for truly all-grain mashing, instead Miller's book will
give you great instructions for your first partial mash.  Once you have done
a partial mash then you can be the judge and decide if your brew has inched up
the quality scale.

Miller does have some chapters (e.g. the chapter on water) that are a bit to
detailed for me but I will come back to those details when I am ready.  What
really sold me on this book is Millers common-sensical approach to brewing.
His book is just littered with neat tips.  For example stuff like:
(1) to calibrate your thermometer, use a mercury fever thermometer
as it is accurate to 2/10 of a degree, (2) draw your brewing water from hot
tap water at 150 degrees as chloroform boils and chlorine gasses out in a
few minutes, (3) an easy way to maintain a partial-mash temp of, say, 150
degrees is to put your covered kettle in the oven -- if you can set your
oven to a temp that low, (4) AAUs explained (very helpful), (5) use the
dry heat cycle on your dishwasher to sterilize bottles. etc. etc.

Last but not least, Miller takes the time to explain every brewing term he
uses; and for the most part the definitions are easily understandable by the
above average beginning brewer.  Furthermore you can later find his definition
in the body of his book because he has a decent index (which is lacking in
Papazian's book).

Sorry to go on so long here but as you can see, I would recommend this book
for the brewer who has 8-10 batches under his belt and is looking for more
homebrewing information, tips and/or challenges.


Return to table of contents


Date: 08 May 91 08:35:50 EST
From: JBAUER at bat.bates.edu
Subject: Los Vagas brewpubs?

Does anyone know of any brewpubs or good places to go in Vagas?
 
thanks.
Jim
jbauer at bat.bates.edu


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Date:         Wed, 08 May 91 08:19:14 EDT
From: "Dr. John" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      HBD No. 632

Ken Weiss says he keeps his clean bottles in a kitchen cabinet and simply
uses them as needed.

Ken, might I suggest that you turn the bottles upside down while storing
them, though you have had no problems to date you probably have indeed
tempted the gods by posting your info.  If you have the bottles upside
down they may find it harder to put any nasties in them.  Otherwise, it
does seem unlikely that anything could live for long on clean dry glass.

C.R. Saikley provided a graphic of barley derivatives.

C.R. are you sure you want to put roasted barley where you have?  Your chart
implies that roasted barley is roasted flaked barley, and interesting concept
but one which I have yet to encounter (all the roasted barley I've seen, and
bought has been whole corns).  Perhaps the roasted barley should be on its own
branch?

Carl West relates a tale about an attempt to culture from a Sierra Nevada
bottle.

Carl, sounds like you have an old bottle there.  I personally wouldn't use it
to pitch a batch of homebrew, think about how bad you'd feel if it fermented
a whole batch as weakly as it appears to be fermenting the small amount of
wort you have introduced into the bottle.  I would want to see an active
ferment, with a good head, after a day or two if I were going to consider
pitching yeast from an experiment such as this.  But, these are only my
personal opinions, do what you like.

Matt Harrington asks about the Great Fermentations "33  gallon" brewpot.

Planning to brew some big batches Matt?  I think that you probably meant to
say "33 quart."  I bought one of these, from this source, about two years ago,
for about a dollar a quart as I recall.  The only thing I would caution you
against is lifting the pot by its handles when it is full of wort.  The handles
aren't strong enough for this task, mine has some small chips on the inside of
the pot from doing this once (I never lift it when it is full any more).  The
price seems reasonably good, but if you can get by with whatever you are using
and save your pennies for a while you might be further ahead waiting till you
can afford a 10 gallon stainless steel pot, I wish I had done this but I too
was a "starving" grad student (and thirsty too) when I bought the
afforementioned ceramic on steel pot.  This is a serviceable piece of equipment
if treated with care and used within its limits.

Matt also asks about sanitizing bottles from a questionable source.

I'd go ahead and immerse them in a bucket of bleach solution for a good
long soak.  In addition to cleaning the insides good this will loosen most
paper labels, I personally find it more aesthetically pleasing to put my
beer into bottles which are clean both inside and out.  And, make sure that you
get rid of any gunk inside the bottles before you soak them, use a brush or a
pile of BB's (didn't you have a BB gun when you were a kid?) to scour the
insides of the bottles.  The BB's work rather well, just dump in a small
handful of them along with a bit of liquid and swirl them around till they
have loosened the deposits.


I'd like to thank all of you who responded to my querry about the beer judge
exam.  The information should all be useful in my attempt to achieve the
highest possible score the first time I take the exam.

It seems, from several recent postings, that there is more that one variation
on the Hunter Energy Monitor (perhaps going by several names).  Does anyone
have the lowdown on this thing (these things)?  What is involved in getting
them installed and usable?  Are these the same type of gizmo that some homebrew
suppliers (Williams in particular) are selling (i.e. the type of thing that
plugs into the outlet, and you plug your fridge or freezer into, and has a
thermocouple that controls how much current your fridge gets to run its
compressor)?  A somewhat detailed discussion would seem to be in order if
anyone has the knowledge and the inclination to share it.

Good brewing,

Dr. John

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 08 May 91 08:54:16 EDT
From: Dale Veeneman <dev1 at gte.com>
Subject: Dark/Black grain fermentables

In my previous posting where I asked about mashing vs. boiling dark
grains, I guess I should have said BLACK grains used as adjuncts.
Burch says, "Unlike the lighter grain malts, black grains do not
have to be mashed, as all the starch has been effectively burned
out during the kilning, and they consequently have little effect
on the amount of fermentables in your wort."  What I was wondering
about is the possible effect of tannins or whatnot due to boiling
(as Burch recommends).  

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 8 May 1991 08:59 EDT
From: GKUSHMER at RUBY.TUFTS.EDU
Subject: Hard Cider

Hello everyone.

I'm a New England native that loves hard cider and wants to try getting
some batches up starting in apple season.  I know that this board is more
geared to beer, but there has to be someone out there that has at least
tried since the same equipment can be used (the carboy anyways).

I've done a little reading on the topic, but I was wondering if anyone out 
there had any tips on either (or both) of the following:

	1) How to control how dry or sweet the end-product becomes.
	2) The legality of selling it at roadside stands.

I have read that the Federal Government allows New England natives to
sell limited quantities of hard cider from roadside stands - not even
requiring a license or taxes!  But I'm not sure if this law has any
provisions - and then there's the state.  I'd love to try selling some,
but not at the expense of spending a weekend in jail.

Thnx

- --gk


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Date:    Wed, 8 May 1991 9:12:30 EDT
From: POORE at SCRI1.SCRI.FSU.EDU (DAVID)
Subject: Reccomendations

Hi folks...

My mother is going to France in a month or so and I have a couple 
questions.

First, what are the prospects of shipping (relatively) large quantities of 
beer from France to US? Possible? Costly? What carriers?

Second, can anyone reccomend brews that would be readily available and 
tasty to have her send? I am interested in Belgian brews, mostly lambics, 
and also would like to get some Dutch Trappist brews as well. I'd prefer 
brews from smaller breweries and will want to try to get some yeast 
cultures (if the yeast in the bottle is the 'real' yeast). 

Any suggestions about shipping procedures and specific brews to buy will be 
much appreciated. Thanks...

David Poore
poore at gw.scri.fsu.edu

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Date: Wed, 8 May 91 09:41:34 -0400
From: jpb at tesuji.dco.dec.com (James P. Buchman)
Subject: Room temperature lager

	My brother and I are making a steam beer for batch #5, roughly based
on the "The Sun Has Set On Time Steam Beer" recipe in Papazian. That recipe
describes its product as "a lager beer fermented at ale temperatures".
Since I don't have enough refrigerator space for my carboy but wanted to
try a lager anyway, I got some MeV high temperature lager yeast for the
experiment. The package says that the yeast works best between 10 and 16 C;
my basement stays around 18 C. Papazian assures us that perfectly good
beer can be made with lager yeast at those temperatures but that we might
sacrifice some smoothness. Does anyone have firsthand experience with room
temperature lagers? Will it take longer to ferment than ale? And is racking
to secondary necessary at higher temps?

	Secondly, when substituting dry malt extract for the liquid, I've
been using 80% as much dry as I would liquid, on the assumption that
the liquid is 20% water. Is this a good estimate?

	Last, there was a discussion some weeks ago about spruce beer.
We made a batch of this using the recipe for Special Red Bitter; we tossed
a pint cup (loosely packed) of the smallest spruce twigs into the wort for
the last 10 minutes of the boil, then removed them. We thought this would
be safe; it's far less spruce than is called for in th Kudmis Island Spruce
Beer recipe in Papazian; but in the first few bottles we opened, the beer
tasted like puree'ed pine tree. After aging in the bottle for five weeks,
though, it has mellowed and is pretty good (though the pine taste is still
too strong). A few more weeks of aging might be all it needs. I'd still
advise using about 1/4 what we used and working up from there.
			Thanks,
				Jim Buchman
				jpb%tesuji.dco.dec.com at decuac.dec.com

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Date: Wed, 8 May 91 09:28:11 -0500
From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner)
Subject: Re: bottle contamination worries


Joe Kendall asks:
> Should I cover the bottles?  Store them upside down in their cardboard
box?
> Thanks in advance for the help.

Ken Weiss replies:

>I run my bottles through the dishwasher as I drink 'em, and keep them in a
>kitchen cabinet until I'm ready to bottle. No sanitizing, no nothing. I
>keep them right side up and uncovered. I have (please don't strike me down
>for hubris, Lord!) never had a problem with contamination. I think you'll
>be reasonably safe, assuming the bottles are clean to begin with.

I'm sure Ken knows this, but for a beginning brewer it might be
important.  There may be nothing wrong with this as long as you use
some common sense.  For instance, consider what else you do in your
cabinets/bottle storage area.  My wife was fooling with sourdough bread
starters for a while, keeping them open-top in the cabinets.  Point is,
just make sure the area you propose to use is free of obvious
contamination sources (ie microbes, pets, pests...).  As Ken suggests,
keep them washed as soon as you're done with them.  If there's nothing
in them that bacteria like, chances are it won't thrive in there.

Mike Zentner

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Date: Wed, 8 May 91 09:48:23 -0500
From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner)
Subject: Cheap ? brewpots


Matt Harrington asks:
>Great Fermentations of Santa Rosa has a 33 gallon brewpot (ceramic on steel)
>for $36.95 + shipping/tax.  Seemed like a great price to me.  Anyone
>have comments or suggestions for a better place to get a brewpot on
>a starving student's budget?  Thanks in advance...

A couple of things worth looking into.  First, I assume you mean 33
quart, not gallon.  Anyhow, I found a 5 gallon stainless steel pot for
$20 (on sale from $30) at a store called Venture.  I've also been told
by another person that one can get a 6 gallon SS pot at Service
Merchandise for between $30 and $40.  I just recently ordered a 10
gallon SS pot from a place called Rapids that Marc Rouleau posted a
blurb about from Chris Shentons mail order summary.  This is what Chris
had to say:
 -> Rapids Inc: 1011 2nd Ave SW; P.O.  Box 396; Cedar Rapids, IA 52406;
 -> 800-553-7906.  Restaurant wholesale equipment. Most interesting: 10 gal 20
 -> gauge stainless pot: $80; matching lid: $20.  The pot is quality, and it's
 -> a good company with which to do business.  [chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov]

The pot is now $90.  They sent me the lid, but the pot was on backorder.  After
seeing the heavy duty construction of the lid, I can hardly wait to get the
pot.  Having used both ceramic on steel and SS now, I am glad I never spent
any money on a c-o-s pot specifically for brewing.  SS pots seem easier to
clean up (after mistakes) and they don't chip.  Also, it doesn't seem like I
scorch as often on the SS, but maybe that's just because I'm being more careful
these days.

Re: your bottles....for peace of mind, I'd soak the whole bottle instead of
just filling them up.  When I sterilize my bottles, I always soak the whole
bottle, (especially considering that my dog or cats may have snuck a lick while
I wasn't watching:-).

Mike Zentner

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Date: Wed, 8 May 91 08:10:01 -0700
From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
Subject: re: sterilizing with a microwave

Jean Hunter <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu> says:
> Davin Lim asks if a microwave oven would be any use in sterilizing.  No,
> because they heat so unevenly that you might melt one part of your plastic
> hose while another part barely warmed up.

I agree with this, but I still use a microwave to sterilize.  What I do
is add a small amount of water to whatever it is (usually yeast starter
jars), cover but don't close it (e.g., saran wrap), and run them in the
uwave until most of the water has steamed away.  I like to use boiling
water as my sanitizer, and steam is pretty good too.  This technique
does require that you watch what's happening somewhat closely, because
running the uwave dry could result in the replacement of the magnetron
bulb (and they're expensive, I'm told.)

	--Darryl "we don't need no stinkin' chlorine" Richman

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Date: Wed, 8 May 91 8:06:39 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Brewkettle

In HOMEBREW Digest #632, Matt Harrington asked:

> Great Fermentations of Santa Rosa has a 33 gallon brewpot (ceramic on steel)
> for $36.95 + shipping/tax.  Seemed like a great price to me.  Anyone
> have comments or suggestions for a better place to get a brewpot on
> a starving student's budget?  Thanks in advance...

That's a pretty average price, from what I've seen in the catalogs. 
You're not getting rooked; might as well buy it from Byron.  I found
one of these kettles for somewhat less in an aging hardware store,
but that was clearly a fluke.  They're good kettles, wide enough to
cover two burners on the average stove, a factor you will definitely
appreciate when boiling the full wort volume.

= Martin A. Lodahl   			  Pacific*Bell Staff Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 8 May 1991 10:27:24 -0600
From: flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu
Subject: Hop growing

I'm growing hops this year and have read a book (don't know the name
offhand) from the catalog found in Zymurgy.  

>In all the descriptions I've read about growing hops, 
>they describe trellises that are 12 to 20 feet off the 
>ground. Is this to avoid some sort of pest? Or does it 
>make the whole project more convenient somehow? 

Hops grow like crazy (up to a foot in a day) and are a vine.  That's just
how it is.  According to the book I read, if you don't let them vine (can
that be used as a verb too?) you will get a diminished crop.  They will
grow horizontally as well.  Someone on the net was going to try to grow
them near the groung in a horizontal manner.  Maybe they can comment on how
it's working.

>Also, in the planting instructions from Freshops it says 
>that rizomes of the same kind may be planted as close 
>together as three feet, but different varieties should be 
>at least five feet apart. Anyone know why?

All hop plants look alike.  A sprout can break the surface a good foot or
more from where the rhizome was planted.  If they are too close, it's
possible to get confused which variety is which.  Also don't forget about
the root system that they develop.  They will spread rapidly in a few years
and become mixed with a nearby variety if you are not careful.  (They won't
create a new variety because they are all females.  By mixed I mean you
won't be able to tell which variety a paticular sprout is.)

Finally, there was a useful picture in the book which showed hops planted
too close together.  The result was said to be reduced harvest.  I have no
experience with this part.

 -Craig Flowers  (flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu)  


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Date: Wed, 8 May 91 8:21:04 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: About Hops ...

In HOMEBREW Digest #632, Carl West asked:

> In all the descriptions I've read about growing hops, 
> they describe trellises that are 12 to 20 feet off the 
> ground. Is this to avoid some sort of pest? Or does it 
> make the whole project more convenient somehow? (hard 
> to believe). Maybe it's to keep vines from running into 
> each other? 

I suspect it's really in keeping with the natural proclivities of
the hop vine.  What's happened in my hopyard in the last few days
seems pretty typical:  one of the Mt. Hood shoots had gotten long
enough for me to begin twining it around a cord.  In the two days
since then, it's nearly doubled in length, while the other shoots
seem listless, by comparison.  Hop vines climb;  that's just what
they do.  This is to our advantage, as we can train them in ways
that enhance our access to the cones at harvest time.

> Also, in the planting instructions from Freshops it says 
> that rizomes of the same kind may be planted as close 
> together as three feet, but different varieties should be 
> at least five feet apart. Anyone know why?

Two possible reasons come to mind.  First, the vines grow like
bloody 'ell and will climb anything in sight, including each other. 
So, if you want to have any idea what kind of cone that is you're
pulling from the impenetrable thicket of intertwined hop vines, it
would behoove you to keep the varieties some distance apart. 
Second, the reason Freshops has rhizomes to sell is that the hops
crown vigorously sends out these underground stems looking for a new
dunghill to colonize, and so in subsequent years shoots can appear a
considerable distance from the crown.  If the hills are too close,
you could have Cluster shoots cleverly masquerading as Saaz ...

= Martin A. Lodahl   			  Pacific*Bell Staff Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 8 May 1991 10:54:17 -0600
From: flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu
Subject: Brewpot

I posted this in issue #609:

>I couldn't locate a large canning pot in any store, so I finally called
the
>company.  Here's the info in anybody is interested.
>
>General Houseware Corp.
>Terre Haute, IN
>812/232-1000
>
>33 quart, ceramic on steel canning pot with lid
>16.5 inch diameter, ~11 inches high 
>$33.50 including shipping


Probably the same pot sold by Great Fermentations.  If you like GF, give
them the profit. 

 -Craig Flowers
 (flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu)
 Subscriber since issue #444


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Date: Wed, 8 May 91 12:42:37 EDT
From: Pete Soper <soper at encore.com>
Subject: Re: hop growing question

From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West x4449)
Subject: hop growing question

>In all the descriptions I've read about growing hops,
>they describe trellises that are 12 to 20 feet off the
>ground. Is this to avoid some sort of pest? Or does it
>make the whole project more convenient somehow? (hard

Because plants grow this tall and sometimes much taller. My Cascades are 19 
feet tall right now (in central North Carolina). Since the vines can't climb
air, a trellis or twine is needed to accomodate lots of vertical space.

>Also, in the planting instructions from Freshops it says
>that rizomes of the same kind may be planted as close
>together as three feet, but different varieties should be
>at least five feet apart. Anyone know why?

Because the plants spread and after a few years you will not know what is
growing from where unless you can use other clues like leaf shape.

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Date: Wed, 08 May 91 13:31:12 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: AHA First Round



> With
>35 or so judges this weekend, three judges per flight, and two flights
>per day, this was a most professional event.  I hope that the other
>sites can carry on in this Grand Tradition in the making.

We had a similar experience out here in Beantown (at least the day I judged),
though we probably did slightly larger flights. Kudos to Bill "Zymurgy" Murphy
and Dave Ruggiero, thanks to Jim Koch and the Boston Beer Co. (makers of Sam
Adams, plug, plug ....).

In general from the results on either coast it seems like the distribution of
labor was a total success. Too bad it took so long for the AHA to trust it's
own membership to take on some of the load (HBD old timers recall our long past
discussion of the tiered competition system). 

JaH



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Date: Wed, 8 May 91 10:36:15 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Brewkettles


From: mbharrington at UCSD.EDU


>Great Fermentations of Santa Rosa has a 33 gallon brewpot (ceramic on steel)
					    ^^^^^^
>for $36.95 + shipping/tax.  Seemed like a great price to me.  Anyone
>have comments or suggestions for a better place to get a brewpot on
>a starving student's budget?  Thanks in advance...

Are you sure it's not a 33 quart brewpot???

If it's truly 33 gallons, then it's a very good deal. However, you'll
need a burner that can boil 33 gallons - stove tops are right out.

Another alternative is making a kettle out of a Sankey keg. It takes a
bit of time, but can be had for little more than the price of a keg
deposit ($15). 

Once you've got the keg, cut a 12-14 inch diameter hole in the top using 
a Milwaukee Sawzall (or a plasma cutter if you've got access). Cut a 
1 & 1/16 inch hole near the bottom. A drill with a hole saw is fine for 
this. Then get a stainless steel coupling, and weld it in the hole at the
bottom. You can then attach plumbing to the coupling : nipples, elbows
ball valves, etc. When all is said and done, you've got a 15 gallon
stainless steel kettle with a valve at the bottom for cheap.

There is still the burning issue of how to boil 15 gallons. Broken hot
water heaters are a pretty good source of cheap burners. It's another
project, but the spirit of homebrewing can easily spill over into home
brewery building. 

It's really pretty easy to do this stuff. I knew absolutely nothing
about metal working until I built my kettle, and it works like a charm.
I've left out many of the details. If anyone is interested in more info, 
respond via email.  Also, Buffalo Bill Owens wrote a book on building 
a home brewery in which he talks about using a keg for a brewkettle.

Happy Brewing,
CR

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Date:     Wed, 8 May 91 13:44:25 EDT
From: William Boyle (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  IHMO

This may be a stupid question, but it's starting to drive me
crazy.  What does "IMHO" stand for, I know it means you like
what ever you use it with.  Also could you list any other
abbreviations commonly used by the users of this digest.  I
know what TCJoHB stands for, and if the meaning is in the
book I don't have it yet, it's been on back order for two
months.
                         Bill Boyle (B2)

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Date: Wed, 8 May 91 14:17 EDT
From: BMENK at ccr2.bbn.com
Subject: Beer Bibliography

I have a bibliography that I would be happy to send out to anyone upon direct
request.  (Because it's made from copyrighted materials I can't just post it
somewhere for general use - but I can share if someone asks me).

It is not exhaustive, since it covers only what is in Books In Print and listed
as currently available.  There are many more that have gone out of print that
could only be found through used book dealers, etc.  It does not cover titles
published in the UK unless they were also published in the States.  But there
are a number of useful titles on it - including an obscure treatise on the
importance of beer in the tribal religion of a somewhere in Africa.  

It's about 15 pages long (or 50k).

Anyone who would like me to send them a copy should e-mail me directly at:
BMENK at BBN.COM

Hope you can find it useful.

Bobb Menk
Senior Technical Librarian
Bolt, Beranek, & Newman

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Date: Wed, 08 May 91 11:25:57 -0700
From: kjohnson at gold.berkeley.edu
Subject: Funny smells

My current batch of fermenting beer has this really strange smell to it.  I 
think the starter may have been infected with something and I didn't realize
it until I had poured all of it in the wort.  It's not a smell of rotten
food or anything, but it's strong and very strange.  Has anyone had experience
with bad smells and how did the beer turn out?

kj


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Date: Wed, 8 May 91 11:03:50 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Cultural Exchange

From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West x4449)


>I'm attempting to culture the yeast from the sediment from a 
>bottle of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. 

A noble pursuit. I've brewed several award winners with yeast pilfered
from Sierra bottles. There are several ways to do this, here is the one 
that works for me.

1. Brew about one quart of lightly hopped, low gravity (1.020 or so)
wort. Cool and transfer to a sterile 48 oz jar fitted with an airlock.

2. Add the dregs from 3 or 4 bottles of Sierra, flaming tops as you go.
Be sure to drink the beer ;-D. If there are any off flavors, don't use
the sediment.

If your source of Sierra is fresh, your starter should be in high krausen
in 3 days. I usually make a starter on Thursday, and brew on Sunday. It's
that easy. There are those who insist that autoclaving is necessary when
making starters, but that hasn't been my experience.

>A week and a half later there is about an 1/8" of sediment in the 
>bottle. SOMETHING is growing in there. Is there any test short of 
>brewing a small batch that'll tell me if I got it? 

Yes there is. One of the niceties of making starters is the quality
checks you get along the way. The simple test is to taste a small amount
of the starter. If it tastes like very green beer, then you're probably
OK. If it's off, don't use it.

CR



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Date: Wed, 8 May 91 13:45:34 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: Please give phone #'s!!!


> Great Fermentations of Santa Rosa has a 33 gallon brewpot (ceramic on steel)
> for $36.95 + shipping/tax.  Seemed like a great price to me.  Anyone
> have comments or suggestions for a better place to get a brewpot on
> a starving student's budget?  Thanks in advance...

And once again, we are getting price quotes (this time for equipment)
without and address or phone number.  please include this information
for those of us unfortunate enough to know all these places by heart
so that we may order from them also, without having to spend an hour
finding out how to contact them.

bb


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Date: Tue, 07 May 91 13:09:48 PDT
From: florianb at chip.CNA.TEK.COM
Subject: Re:  lagering lagers

Yesterday, Randy Tidd inquired about lagering lagers:

>yeast.  Once the fermentation got going, I put the fermenter in the
>fridge at about 40F.  The fermentation went real slow once it cooled
>down, then stopped after about 3 days.  I decided it was too cold, so
>I warmed up the fridge a little (from 'E' to 'C' on the little dial
>inside -- wonderful gauge, that) and racked the beer to a secondary.
>Now it's been going for about 4-1/2 more weeks!  The lock has been
>glubbing about once every 20-30 seconds the whole time.  Now the beer
>is clear enough that I can see little bubbles inside as it ferments.

I'm going to guess that you pitched the yeast from a packet into room
temperature wort.  Then you cooled the wort and shocked the yeast.  It
recovered after three days and intended to do its job when you racked
it and shocked it further.

>month.  I was going to make another lager that was slightly richer
>(6-7 lbs of extracts + specialty grains), but if this supposedly "light"
>beer is taking 5-6 weeks to ferment, I hate to think how long a richer
>beer would take.  Is this normal?

A beer with "specialty" grains shouldn't take any longer to ferment 
than the pale beer, unless you are using lots of 80L crystal or 
something like that.  The 5-6 weeks isn't normal fermentation.  In
any case the present stage is fermentation, not lagering.  Please let
me go into some detail to develop this by giving an example of how
I brew lagers.

First, I prepare a yeast starter by pitching the packet into a solution
of 1/8# dry light unhopped extract in one quart water, which has been
(I mean the solution has been)
boiled 20 minutes, then cooled to about 70 degrees.  I do this two days
before brewing.  On the brew day, I prepare the wort, then chill to
about 50 degrees in a large tub fermenter.  I pitch the yeast starter,
stir like hell, then put it into a 48 degree frige.  Here is where
temperature control is extremely important.  After two days, it is
fermenting bodaciously.  When the foam head has dropped, I transfer to
a carboy quickly so that the temperature of the wort doesn't change
much.  Then I jam it back into the frige at 48 degrees for about 12
more days.  The fermentation should be just about over by then.

At that point, I do one of two things.  Here are the two options.

(1)	I rack it once more and put it back into the frige.  I lower 
the temp gradually over one week to 35 degrees.  Then I leave it for
6-8 weeks.  After that, I package it.  I then store it at 48 degrees
for one week to carbonate it, then lager it once more until consumption.

(2)	I keg and prime it.  The I put it in the frige at a temperature
of 48 degrees for one week.  Over a week's time, I lower the temp
to about 36 degrees.  Then I leave it for 6-8 weeks.

In either case, the lagering occurs after fermentation is complete.
It is optional whether to carbonate before or after fermentation.

Most likely, if the beer is requiring 5 weeks to ferment out, the
culprit is temperature.  The one and only real good alternative
is to use a temperature controller on the frige.

I hope this helps.  The most important things are to (1)  stay cool
(2) don't worry, (3) stay in school and graduate (4) keep brewing.

Florian



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Date: 	Wed, 8 May 1991 18:41:31 -0400
From: "N. Zentena" <zen at utcs.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Coleman coolers?

	Hi,
		I'm thinking of getting a cooler to using for mashing. What
I've seen is a 10gallon round beverage cooler. Will this work? Or should
I use a square one? If I use the round one how would I create a false bottom
for it?
	Nick

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Date: Wed, 8 May 91 19:04:22 PDT
From: mbharrington at UCSD.EDU
Subject: looking for kegging suggestions


As I bottled last night, I thought about how nice it would be to have
a Cornelius system, in that it would be so much less effort than
washing all of those bottles.  It is a bit pricey for me though, about
1/3 of my tuition here!  Papazian's book shows a keg that looks like
it would be a lot cheaper, but I havent been able to find one ine
a catalog.  Not the actual keg, but the bungholes, etc.  Have
these kegs been phased out?  Does anyone still use them?

Also,  I was thinking that it was a lot easier, but if I only had one
keg, I could only have one type of beer at one time, right?  And, it
wouldn't be economical to drink some beer and age some for a while.
I gather that many readers of HBD use a kegging system and I'd appreciate
your comments.

What really made it a pain in the rear was that many of the bottles that
I set aside to use couldn't be capped with my capper, which I believe
is called a Universal capper made in Italy.  The capper I have needs
a bit of an angle on the neck of the bottle, and the neck can't be
too thick as in champagne bottles.  I found out the hard way as the
first champagne bottle shattered into itsy bitsy shards of glass.

Is it possible to use a Bud/Miller/etc. keg from my local store to
brew
?  I'd just give up the deposit...

Thanks,

Matt Harringotn
(that should be HarringTOn  :-)  )

Matthew B. Harrington                        Internet: matt at ucsd.edu
University of California at San Diego        Recycle or Die.
Biophysics                                   Think! It's not illegal yet.

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Date: Wed, 8 May 91 19:23:55 -0700
From: jpaul at lccsd.sd.locus.com (James Hensley)
Subject: spaten


There seem to be several brands of beer from germany called 'spaten'.  One of
these has a spade on the label, leading me to believe that it means 'spade'.
What is a spaten?

Thanks,
James

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #633, 05/09/91
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