---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Spaten (Steve Anthony)
  Re: Hunter Energy Monitor - The right one (Jean Hunter)
  more questions about hops (DAVID)
  Re: IMHO (11PDAVIS)
  Spaten (Fritz Keinert)
  Archives out of date (Matthias Blumrich)
  Growing hops (Joe Kendall)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #633 (May 09, 1991) (Steve Thornton)
  steam beer and kegs (Marty Albini)
  IMHO (Bill Thacker)
  spaten
  "IMHO", IMHO (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Four Comments on Four Topics (Mike Fertsch)
  AHA First Round
  IHMO
  Coleman coolers?
  spaten
  first batch of ale (John Mireley)
  Carapils (Brian Smithey)
  Last word on Hunter (Ken Johnson)
  hard cider and steam beer (mage!lou)
  enamel brewpots (Don McDaniel)
  Alternative Grains... (Kurt Swanson)
  Add me to the list (Mark Hoeft)
  Grain Brewing, Cleaning Equipment, Kegs, etc. (larryba)
  Pitching and Traveling (IOCONNOR)
  Beers from France, Miller (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Subscription ("Dr. Ruth Mazo Karras")
  Cappers (Martin A. Lodahl)
  i've settled on a brewpot (mbharrington)
  hop growing (chip upsal)
  Cooler/Masher (chip upsal)
  Fresh beer? (Bill Crick)
  Honey, siphons, and bottles (cdp!uunet!inland.com!pals)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 May 91 08:40:06 EDT
From: Steve Anthony <steveo at Think.COM>
Subject: Spaten


>Date: Wed, 8 May 91 19:23:55 -0700
>From: jpaul at lccsd.sd.locus.com (James Hensley)
>Subject: spaten


>There seem to be several brands of beer from germany called 'spaten'.  One of
>these has a spade on the label, leading me to believe that it means 'spade'.
>What is a spaten?

Spaten is indeed a spade, and Spaten is also one of the bigger braueries in
the Munich region. The spade is the brewers spade, used to turn the grains in
the malting/mashing process. 

On a recent trip to Germany, I was suprised to see how many breweries have
the spade, fork and a hop cluster in their logo. Also of interest was the
brewer's star, which was a star of David. Anybody know what the background
on that is? How did the symbol of Judaism become associated with brewing?

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Date:         Thu, 09 May 91 08:26:00 EDT
From: Jean Hunter <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Re: Hunter Energy Monitor - The right one

Two friends and I just received Hunter energy monitors picked up for us by
a fellow IHD subscriber.  We have the model 42205, H.E.M.-AC, which is meant
for use with a room air conditioner and will handle a 115-V power source.
Presumably the 24-V model referred to in a recent HBD is the one that connects
to a home thermostatting system.
My new HEM plugs into the wall, then the fridge plugs into it.  It has a
thermocouple (thermistor?) plug at the end of a 4' cord, which goes inside the
fridge to measure temperature.  It is microprocessor based and can be pro-
grammed for a weeklong cycle with four temperature changes/day on weekdays
and two on weekends.  Temperatures are set digitally in a range from 40 - 90F.
The dead zone is 1 degree above to 2 degrees below setpoint and there is a
4 minute minimum delay between power-off and power-on to protect the fridge
compressor.  The H.E.M. is made by Hunter Fan Company, 2500 Frisco Avenue,
Memphis TN 38114.  Their customer service line is (901) 745-9222, M-F, central
time.  Enough?  No one has ever accused me of brevity.  Cheers - Jean

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Date:    Thu, 9 May 1991 9:20:40 EDT
From: POORE at SCRI1.SCRI.FSU.EDU (DAVID)
Subject: more questions about hops

All this talk about hops has me wondering a few things, and I'm curious if 
it would be productive to try to cultivate my own.

I live in N. Fla., very hot and humid, and a few freezing nights in the 
winter. I've got a fairly limited space of full sun with most of my 
property pretty well shaded. Can I cultivate hops in these conditions? If 
so, can someone list the address and numbers for Freshops or any other good 
sources for rhizomes?

Also, is it to late in the year to get them started? How soon can one 
expect to harvest after planting?

Thanks...

David Poore
poore at gw.scri.fsu.edu

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Date: Thu, 9 May 1991 09:28 EST
From: 11PDAVIS%GALLUA.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Re: IMHO


        IMHO = In My *Humble* Opinion

                Universal Encyclopedia of Oxymorons - Abridged


        That's right; yet another acronym. Judging from your net address, you
must be familiar with others; like SNAFU, ASAP, SOP. Have you been in long
enough to remember FTA - For Today's Army? Or F___ the Army; I guess it
depended on your orientation. I'm sure we will always be able to depend the
military PR types for new and interesting word games. Some may even make the
UEoO-A. When was the last time you met an acronym that was all vowels, eh?

                                        Have fun!
                                                Pete Davis


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Date: Thu, 09 May 91 08:47:46 CDT
From: Fritz Keinert <keinert at iastate.edu>
Subject: Spaten

In digest #633, jpaul at lccsd.sd.locus.com (James Hensley) asks

> There seem to be several brands of beer from germany called 'spaten'.  One of
> these has a spade on the label, leading me to believe that it means 'spade'.
> What is a spaten?

"Spaten" is indeed the German word for spade. I think it is simply the
name of the brewery, but I am not sure.

Fritz Keinert
keinert at iastate.edu



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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 10:00:29 -0400
From: Matthias Blumrich <mb at Princeton.EDU>
Subject: Archives out of date

Sorry to post this, but I got no response from -request.  Maybe somebody can
answer this:

Why has the archive not been updated since January?  I want to delete
the digests I have saved but I won't do so until they show up in the
archive.  I see that there are files called "9102.index", etc., but I
can't read them.

 - Matt -

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Date: 05/09/91
From: Joe Kendall <SYSHJK%GSU.EDU at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Growing hops

 The discussion on hop growing is fascinating!  Where does one get hop
 plants to start?  A quick search of local nurseries revealed no leads.
 There were a few strange looks and a laugh or two, though!

 
 

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Date:         Thu, 09 May 91 10:13:34 EST
From: Steve Thornton <NETWRK at HARVARDA.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Homebrew Digest #633 (May 09, 1991)

IMHO = In my humble opinion
IMNSHO = In my not so humble opinion

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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 7:37:30 PDT
From: Marty Albini <martya at sdd.hp.com>
Subject: steam beer and kegs

> From: jpb at tesuji.dco.dec.com (James P. Buchman)
> Subject: Room temperature lager
> 
> 	My brother and I are making a steam beer for batch #5, roughly based
> on the "The Sun Has Set On Time Steam Beer" recipe in Papazian. That recipe
> describes its product as "a lager beer fermented at ale temperatures".
> Since I don't have enough refrigerator space for my carboy but wanted to
> try a lager anyway, I got some MeV high temperature lager yeast for the
> experiment. The package says that the yeast works best between 10 and 16 C;
> my basement stays around 18 C. Papazian assures us that perfectly good
> beer can be made with lager yeast at those temperatures but that we might
> sacrifice some smoothness. Does anyone have firsthand experience with room
> temperature lagers? Will it take longer to ferment than ale? And is racking
> to secondary necessary at higher temps?

	This is my regular summer brew (it's called "The Sun
Has Left Us On Time Steam Beer," btw, after a quote from
Thomas Edison). I have gotten good results with both Red Star
lager yeast and William's dry lager yeast.

	If you brew at the temperature mentioned, you are
*not* brewing a lager, you are brewing a steam beer. A
different animal, and quite enjoyable in its own right. I have
been able to improve the smoothness of this recipe by lagering
the secondary, and doing the primary ferment at room
temperatures, but as you point out, this requires a LARGE
fridge. Even doing both at room temperature makes a fine
beer.
	
> 	Secondly, when substituting dry malt extract for the liquid, I've
> been using 80% as much dry as I would liquid, on the assumption that
> the liquid is 20% water. Is this a good estimate?

	Yes, by weight. This makes TSHLUOTSB an easy recipe:
five pounds of dry malt extract and half a pound of crystal
malt. Try dry hopping with Cascades as the finishing hops.
 
> From: mbharrington at UCSD.EDU
> 
> As I bottled last night, I thought about how nice it would be to have
> a Cornelius system, in that it would be so much less effort than
> washing all of those bottles.  It is a bit pricey for me though, about
> 1/3 of my tuition here!  Papazian's book shows a keg that looks like
> it would be a lot cheaper, but I havent been able to find one ine
> a catalog.  Not the actual keg, but the bungholes, etc.  Have
> these kegs been phased out?  Does anyone still use them?

	Don't mess with it. Soda kegs are cheap if you know
where to shop (you're local, so give me a call) and you don't
mind reconditioning a used keg. The rest of the hardware isn't
bad, and can be found used as well. Figure a hundred bucks to
get started with used stuff, twice that with new. Another
thirty bucks per keg additional (used).

> Also,  I was thinking that it was a lot easier, but if I only had one
> keg, I could only have one type of beer at one time, right?  And, it
> wouldn't be economical to drink some beer and age some for a while.
> I gather that many readers of HBD use a kegging system and I'd appreciate
> your comments.

	Well, I have more than one keg 8<:^) (anybody who's
been to my house can appreciate the humor). I store my beer in
five gallon kegs and refrigerate and serve from 2.5 and 3
gallon kegs (they fit the fridge better). I use a transfer
hose to move from one to the other. I only use bottles when I
need a "single serving" package for some reason (my annual
Christmas beer distribution, for instance).
- --
________________________________________________Marty Albini___________
"To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks."
phone    : (619) 592-4177
UUCP     : {hplabs|nosc|hpfcla|ucsd}!hp-sdd!martya
Internet : martya at sdd.hp.com 
US mail  : Hewlett-Packard Co., 16399 W. Bernardo Drive, San Diego CA 92127-1899 USA

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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 10:21:22 EDT
From: Bill Thacker <hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!cbema!wbt>
Subject: IMHO

William Boyle (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL> writes:

> 
> This may be a stupid question, but it's starting to drive me
> crazy.  What does "IMHO" stand for, I know it means you like
> what ever you use it with.  

"Imbibe More Homebrew Or-else."

Actually, it's "In my humble opinion" or "In my honest opinion."
And BTW, "BTW" stands for "by the way," not "Bavarian Tater Works."



Subject: spaten
 
 jpaul at lccsd.sd.locus.com (James Hensley) writes:

> What is a spaten?

I thought it meant "dry."

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker	AT&T Network Systems - Columbus      wbt at cbnews.att.com



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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 7:48:08 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: "IMHO", IMHO

In HOMEBREW Digest #633, Bill Boyle asked:

> This may be a stupid question, but it's starting to drive me
> crazy.  What does "IMHO" stand for ...

In My Humble Opinion.  The "Humble" is usually ironic ... ;->

= Martin A. Lodahl   			  Pacific*Bell Staff Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 12:06 EDT
From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: Four Comments on Four Topics

Subject: AHA First Round

I echo Jay Hersh's positive comments about the East-coast first round
judging.  Everything went well.  We spent one full weekend and one evening
unpacking and registering our ~400 entries.  We expected lots of broken
bottles, but received only one.  We had about 15 entries from wrong
categories sent to us by mistake - these were re-shipped to Boulder.  We
received about 20 bottles with imprinted or raised lettering - illegal
bottles! 

We ran 5 judging flights, held over 3 days.  Most flights had between 8 and
10 entries.  IMHO, most beers were excellent. 

Is there any news from the Boulder judging crew?

> In general from the results on either coast it seems like the
> distribution of labor was a total success. Too bad it took so long for the
> AHA to trust it's own membership to take on some of the load (HBD old
> timers recall our long past discussion of the tiered competition system). 

I agree.  I see this year's experiment as the first step to the tiered
competition system.  If the AHA sets up more first-round sites, and allows
each site to judge all categories, then we will have a regional "tiered system".

**************************************

Subject:  IHMO

> This may be a stupid question, but it's starting to drive me
> crazy.  What does "IMHO" stand for...

FYI, it means "In my humble opinion".  

**************************************

Subject: Coleman coolers?

> 		I'm thinking of getting a cooler to using for mashing. What
> I've seen is a 10 gallon round beverage cooler. Will this work? Or should
> I use a square one? If I use the round one how would I create a false bottom
> for it?

I use a 5 gallon cylindrical Coolman cooler.  It works fine - I use it as a
one-step combined masher/sparger.  For sparging, I wrap a stainless
vegtable steamer in a nylon bag and place it on the bottom.  It fits just
above the valve.  Oh yes, I've removed the standard push-to-dispende spigot
and replaced it with the usual draining valve. 

**************************************

Subject: spaten

> There seem to be several brands of beer from germany called 'spaten'.  One of
> these has a spade on the label, leading me to believe that it means 'spade'.
> What is a spaten?

The Spaten Brewery is in Munich and makes many styles of beer.  Spaten
means shovel/spade in German, and they use a spade as their logo.  BTW,
they used to call their Dobblebock "Doppelspaten" and put two shovels on
the bottle.

Mike Fertsch

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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 13:54:25 EDT
From: John Mireley <mireley at horus.cem.msu.edu>
Subject: first batch of ale


After brewing three batches of lager I've brewed my first ale. I used the
expeditous ale recipe from tcjohb. It sure is expeditous. I've been getting
14 or so day fermentations with the lagers. This batch went from an og of 48
to 18 since Monday evening. I used both yeast packs from the Old Ale kits
and I would guess that this contributed to the quick ferment. I figured if I
racked it into the secondary fermenter Thursday morning I wouldn't have
any blow off through the fermentation lock. I did it to quick on my last
batch and wound up putting the boil off tube back in. Anyway, the fermentation 
slowed to one glug in 50 seconds and the specific gravety was down to 18
when I racked it. Did I wait to long? Is this rate to slow to drive off
the air in the carboy? Is this quick ferment typical of ales or just
this recipe? I would be inclined to use a single stage fermentation if
this is typical. Would pitching just one packet of yeast help? Should I
bottle this now or is there enough CO2 to drive out the oxygen and keep it from
going bad.

John Mireley

P.S. I would like to brew a Southern Brown Ale for my next batch.
Can someone recommend a good extract recipe?

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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 11:06:25 PDT
From: smithey at esosun.css.gov (Brian Smithey)
Subject: Carapils

On Tue, 7 May 91 09:49:39 PDT,
grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley) said:

CR> Carapils is dried at a lower temp, so it does not go through the
CR> carmelization that crystal does. The amount of dextrin in carapils is
CR> controlled by the temp during starch->sugar conversion. If you mash with
CR> carapils, you can convert these dextrins into simple sugars, thereby 
CR> losing those elements that the maltster so painstakingly provided.

I'm a bit confused now, what is the "proper" way to use Cara-Pils?
If steeped before mashing, I would expect the extracted dextrins
to be broken down into fermentables during mashing.  After mashing
and sparging, everything is too hot.  Should Cara-Pils be steeped
separately, and then this dextrin soup added to the kettle after
sparging and boiled with the full-volume wort?

Brian
- --
Brian Smithey / SAIC, Geophysics Division / San Diego CA
smithey at esosun.css.gov  -  uunet!seismo!esosun!smithey

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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 11:40:53 PDT
From: kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson)
Subject: Last word on Hunter

I finally got my Hunter Air Stat and it works great.  For those of you who
will be getting beer fridges or just thinking about getting beer fridges
pay close attention.  Hunter is a ceiling fan company that also makes 
thermostats.  The Hunter Energy Monitor is too loose a term, because it
applies to almost all of their stats (including the regular house heater/AC
stat which I unknowingly bought the first time).  What the brew wants is
the Hunter Air Stat, an air conditioner thermostat that plugs into the wall.
You plug your fridge into the Air Stat, put the remote temperature sensor in
the fridge, set the stat, and away you go.  This model goes down to 40 F,
which is plenty low.  If you want to get cooler, just put the stat on manual
and control the temperature with your regular fridge stat.  The energy monitor
feature allows one to read how long the unit has operated on the current day,
the previous day, and a running total. For those of you who don't know where
to buy one, look in your phone book, or call Hunter at 901-745-9222.  A
warning about calling them:  no one ever answers the phone.  It may take you
several tries to get through.  Cost retails around $40 (I think).

Bay Area: buy yours at Home Depot, because they're on sale for $19.95.  Look
in the air conditioning dept.

Midwest: check Builder's Square for the ~$20 price.

To make sure you are buying/have bought the right one, the model # is 42205.

good luck
kj

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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 12:58:53 MDT
From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: hard cider and steam beer

In HBD #633 GKUSHMER at RUBY.TUFTS.EDU writes:

>I'm a New England native that loves hard cider and wants to try getting
>some batches up starting in apple season...

>I've done a little reading on the topic, but I was wondering if anyone out 
>there had any tips on either (or both) of the following:

>	1) How to control how dry or sweet the end-product becomes.

This is decidedly non-trivial.  As a beginner, I wouldn't even try - just
ferment it and decide how you like the result before getting fancy.  The key is
how attenuative your yeast is (are you using the natural yeast in the
fresh-pressed juice or are you pasteurizing and adding yeast?  If so, what
kind?).  What is your original SG?  You can add sugar (actually I'd recommend
honey, but then, I'm a mead-head) to a level where there will still be some
sweetness after the yeast dies off.  On the other hand, you can add Everclear or
vodka to kill the yeast before the fermentation is done.  Anything you do to try
to control it is going to be tricky.

I've fermented out and bottled cider.  My opinion is that just pouring the
juice in a sanitized carboy and adding an airlock works as well as the more
sophisticated techiniques of paseurizing and adding yeast that I've tried.

My preferred way of having hard cider is to just leave the jug open at room
temperature for 2-4 days and then serve.  You get a little bit of fermentaion
and the result is short on alcohol but long on taste.  Of course, you can't
bottle it and serve it next July this way but I think this way has the best
taste.

>	2) The legality of selling it at roadside stands.

>I have read that the Federal Government allows New England natives to
>sell limited quantities of hard cider from roadside stands - not even
>requiring a license or taxes!  But I'm not sure if this law has any
>provisions - and then there's the state.  I'd love to try selling some,
>but not at the expense of spending a weekend in jail.

Reading this makes me wonder if you live in the same United States that I do.
The federal government not requiring taxes on the sale of alcohol?????  I
*strongly* recommend that you ask the nearest office of the US Bureau of
Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms and the state Liquor Control Board and get
permission in writing before trying this.

This is purely speculation and not based on fact or even rumor, but my guess is
that the Feds are tolerant if the roadside stand's cider ferments slightly and
contains traces of alcohol when it is sold since it is very difficult to
prevent this from happening.  I suspect that they take a very different opinion
of someone deliberately fermenting cider and selling it without paying tithes
to Uncle.  don't expect to spend a weekend in jail if you're caught; think in
terms of years and $K.

Also, Jim Buchman writes:

>	My brother and I are making a steam beer for batch #5, roughly based
>on the "The Sun Has Set On Time Steam Beer" recipe in Papazian. That recipe
>describes its product as "a lager beer fermented at ale temperatures".
>Since I don't have enough refrigerator space for my carboy but wanted to
>try a lager anyway, I got some MeV high temperature lager yeast for the
>experiment. The package says that the yeast works best between 10 and 16 C;
>my basement stays around 18 C. Papazian assures us that perfectly good
>beer can be made with lager yeast at those temperatures but that we might
>sacrifice some smoothness. Does anyone have firsthand experience with room
>temperature lagers? Will it take longer to ferment than ale? And is racking
>to secondary necessary at higher temps?

The answer is a very definite maybe.  Some lager yeasts take longer than
others.  I haven't tried steam beer with that yeast.  Racking may or may not be
necessary depending on how long the fermentation goes.  Try it and find out.

	>Secondly, when substituting dry malt extract for the liquid, I've
>been using 80% as much dry as I would liquid, on the assumption that
>the liquid is 20% water. Is this a good estimate?

Sure, why not.  Don't get too hung up on the numbers.

Louis Clark
reply to: lou%mage.uucp at ncar.ucar.edu


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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 13:24:09 -0600
From: dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu (Don McDaniel)
Subject: enamel brewpots

I got the 33 qt enamel-on-steel pot from Great Fermentations in San
Raphael.  It is inded the pot from General Housewares.  GF shipped
it to me in the original GH box!  There appears to be no savings
in ordering from GH, so give some profit to GF.  Also as much as
I wanted a stainless steel pot, all SS pots that I could find are
tall units with small bases.  They will not straddle two burners
as the c-o-s pot will.  This makes a big difference to me.  I'm
tired of waiting for my 7 gal. wort to boil!

Don McDaniel
dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu


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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 14:29:24 CDT
From: kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson)
Subject: Alternative Grains...

Has anyone out there ever tried using rye in brewing?  Besides
barley, I've heard of wheat, oats, corn and rice being used in
brewing, what about rye??  What other grains am I missing?
- -- 
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science,
Northwestern University.  kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu

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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 12:41:54 PDT
From: Mark Hoeft <mhoeft at hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Add me to the list
Full-Name: Mark Hoeft

Hi,

Please add me to the homebrew digest mailing list

We're getting ready to brew out third batch soon.

- --
Mark Hoeft
(408) 447-7323, 48NB
mhoeft at cup.hp.com

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Date: Thu May 09 12:18:54 1991
From: microsoft!larryba at cs.washington.edu
Subject: Grain Brewing, Cleaning Equipment, Kegs, etc.

Why does everyone act like grain brewing is hard and that beginners shouldn't
attempt it?  Although I did extract brews for years (with mediocre results)
and my anxiety levels were very high for the first grain batch, the results
were good and the process was pretty easy and forgiving.  Stick to simple,
single infusion mashes (ala miller or Papazian), get a sparge bag, wrap your
mash/sparge bucket with a towel or two and most of all "Relax, have a
homebrew". The equipment requirements for a good mash are really pretty low
tech.  I just added a barrel tap to my old plastic fermenter and voila:
mash & sparge bucket!

The proof is that a friend of mine did his first three batches ever as all
grain and had very nice brown ales to show for it.

- ---- Cleaning Equipment

Try plain old Washing Soda (in a blue box at your supermarket) It is just
Sodium Carbonate (main ingredient in your dishwasher detergent).  A chemist
friend of a friend claims Soda doesn't etch your glass ware (the phosphorous
in detergent is the culprit) and rinses out very easily.  Also, the stuff
strips off beer labels and the gum very quickly.  This doesn't sanitize and
shouldn't be mixed with bleach.  Etched glassware is a haven for bugs and
harder to clean/sterilize.

- ----- Kegs

I got used Firestones for $30/ea.  I spent around $220 for CO2 bottle,
regulator, hoses, kegs, taps for three kegs.  It was a lot of money, but
the kegs are pretty convenient.  I also bottle (from the keg) when I want
to give someone my beer or take some on a picinic.  Unless you can find a
supply of used kegs real cheap you probably won't get setup this cheap.
The place that set me up (Brewers Warehouse, Seattle) doesn't carry used
kegs anymore...  The only problem I have with kegs is that I am limited
to how many beers I can have on tap - this gets even worse now that I am
playing around with lagers and a keg is tied up for a month or so before
I can start drinking!

Anyone have a pointer to a supply of cheap used pin lock kegs?



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Date:    Thu, 9 May 1991 17:44:32 EDT
From: IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU
Subject: Pitching and Traveling

Two questions:
 
1)  My third and fourth batches seem to have a high ending gravity.  I
didnt do anything different from the previous two--but the third one
started at 1046 and ended  at 1024 when I bottled.  I just racked my
fourth batch to a  
I used a M&F premium kit in the first one and a John Bull Stout kit in
the second case.  I did not do anything different from the first two
batches, and they came out at <1010.  Whats the deal?  My ferments are 
quick because of the temp in my apt, about 76 deg.  Will the beer 
taste bad, or be unfermented?

2)  Any pointers tobrew pubs in London and Luxembourg City?  Either in 
the HBD archives, or by personal email?  I'll be in both cities in 
July and early August.

3)  I lied about two questions, it was to get you to read this.  Can 
someone describe the proper way to create a "starter".  Mine failed to 
"glug" when I did it a day in advance.  I used a cup of spray malt and 
a half gallon of H20, then put the yeats in at 80 deg.  I know, it was 
hot, but I was impatient.

Thanks for any and all responses.

Kieran

IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU (internet)  IOCONNOR at SUNRISE (bitnet)

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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 15:18:44 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Beers from France, Miller

In HOMEBREW Digest #633, David Poore asked:

> First, what are the prospects of shipping (relatively) large quantities of 
> beer from France to US? Possible? Costly? What carriers?

I can't answer this one.  I started looking into the question
several years ago, and at the time, the complexities involved with
the shipping plus the BATF and ABC red tape made me finally give it
up.  Unless you're willing to be an honest-to-goodness importer, it
just doesn't seem to be worth it.  I hope someone else has a better
answer than that ...

> Second, can anyone reccomend brews that would be readily available and 
> tasty to have her send? I am interested in Belgian brews, mostly lambics, 
> and also would like to get some Dutch Trappist brews as well. I'd prefer 
> brews from smaller breweries and will want to try to get some yeast 
> cultures (if the yeast in the bottle is the 'real' yeast). 

Where's she going?  Many Belgian beers are available in Paris,
including many lambics.  My brother-in-law lives next to a tiny,
completely unremarkable neighborhood store in the 20th 
Arrondissement, and it carries such delicacies as Leffe
Trappiste, Mort Subite kriek & gueuze, and Jenlain biere de garde. 
A couple blocks away is an ordinary liquor store that has Orval, the
three major Chimays, St. Sixtus, Timmerman's gueuze, kriek, and
framboise, and many others.  In short, if she's going to Paris, she
should have no trouble at all finding things you'll like.  To the
best of my knowledge there's no practical limit on the quantity she
could bring back in her baggage, but excess baggage charges make it
not practical politics to bring more than a case or so, and she'll
be charged duty on anything over 2 liters.

The question of culturing from the bottle is a real "gotcha", for
exactly the reason you've stated.  There's an additional problem
with lambics:  due to the the complex nature of the fermentation,
only some of the organisms lying in that heap of rubbish at the
bottom of the bottle are likely to be viable, and of those that are,
some reproduce very slowly.  So, if you manage to culture something
from a gueuze bottle and use it to make beer, that beer probably
won't taste much like gueuze.

On an entirely different subject:  I wholeheartedly throw my support
behind the Miller book (The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing).  I
agree with Darryl's reservations concerning the title, but it's
always the first place I look when I'm considering brewing a new (to
me) style of beer.  I personally believe it belongs in every
homebrewer's library.

= Martin A. Lodahl   			  Pacific*Bell Staff Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: 09 May 91 18:54:06 EST
From: "Dr. Ruth Mazo Karras" <RKARRAS at PENNSAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Subscription

May I be included in the distribution for the Homebrew Digest?

                    RKarras at PennSAS.BITNET

                           - or -

                    RKarras at PennSAS.UPenn.EDU

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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 15:39:46 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Cappers

In HOMEBREW Digest #633, Matt Harrington observed:

>What really made it a pain in the rear was that many of the bottles that
>I set aside to use couldn't be capped with my capper, which I believe
>is called a Universal capper made in Italy.  The capper I have needs
>a bit of an angle on the neck of the bottle, and the neck can't be
>too thick as in champagne bottles.  I found out the hard way as the
>first champagne bottle shattered into itsy bitsy shards of glass.

Two-handled cappers are traps for the unwary.  Frankly, I can't
imagine why retailers sell them.  Actually I can, but just wish I
couldn't.  I had exactly the same problems, and sent many a
perfectly usable bottle off to be recycled, before my wife found a
bench capper at a yard sale for $3.  For a few batches I bravely
tried to go on using that two-handled glass smasher on those bottles
it seemed suited to, but I finally gave up on it and just keep it in
case of the (unlikely) failure of my bench capper.  Do yourself a
favor, Matt, and start setting a little money aside each month for a
good capper.  They're lots cheaper than Cornelius kegs.

= Martin A. Lodahl   			  Pacific*Bell Staff Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Thu, 9 May 91 18:25:46 PDT
From: mbharrington at UCSD.EDU
Subject: i've settled on a brewpot


>
Thanks to the person who suggested looking for a 33 quart brewpot at
Barley Malt & Vine.  The price was $25 with free shipping for
orders over $30, so I ordered some ingredients as well.
I don't have the number with me now, but it is included on the list
of homebrew stores which some reader of HBD has kindly made up.

I'll be making the traditional porter (sweeter) from Papazian's book.

By the way, many people have recommended a book called Winner's
Circle.  Does this book only contain all-grain recipes?

- --Matt

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Date: 09 May 91 23:56:29 EDT
From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com>
Subject: hop growing

Carl West x4449 writes


>In all the descriptions I've read about growing
>hops, they describe trellises that are 12 to 20
>feet off the ground. Is this to avoid some sort
>of pest? Or does it ake the whole project more

I beleve it is mostly to support the tremendiously long vines that the
plants will produce.

>Also, in the planting instructions from Freshops it
>says that rizomes of the same kind may be planted
>as close together as three feet, but different
>varieties should be at least five feet apart.


Just so you can tell them apart later.

Chip


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 this
type brew deserves a long time in the bottle to reach prefection.  But it
is well worth the time.

Chip


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Date: 10 May 91 00:41:37 EDT
From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Cooler/Masher

Nick <zen at utcs.utoronto.ca>, writes


>                I'm thinking of getting a cooler to using for mashing.
>What I've seen is a 10gallon round beverage cooler. Will this work? Or
>should I use a square one? If I use the round one how would I
>create a false bottom for it?

I have a 5 gal. Gott water cooler for a mash tun.  For a false bottom I
put in some type m copper set set in an "H"  like pattern with lots of
holes drilled in the copper.  The copper runs out the bottom of the cooler
where the drain was and is epoxied where it runs through to prevent
leekage.  I put a faucet at the end of the copper to controll the flow of
the wort.

From the top the copper looks like this:


                           _       _
                          | |     | |
                          | |_____| |
                          |  _   _  |
                          | | | | | |
                          |_| | | |_|
                              | |
                              | |
                              | |
                             valve


I soldered the thing up using lead free solder.  It works well I can hold
the mash tempature two with in a few degrees for the entire mash.  The
only week point is where the copper passes through the cooler and is
sealed with epoxy.  The epoxy does not maintain a good seal with the
plastic.  Any ideas for improving the designe would be helpfull.

Chip


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Date: 	Wed, 8 May 1991 13:39:26 -0400
From: hplabs!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick)
Subject: Fresh beer?

Something I have been wondering about: Several new small breweries
around here date stamp their beer, and go to great lengths to explain that
they do all sorts of things to make sure you get "Fresh beer"??
Why? The last thing I want is fresh beer? I go out of my way to hide 
freshly brewed beer where I won't be tempted to drink it until it has
aged. I consider a few months to be minimum, six months better, so what 
is it with the "fresh beer"?? 
 Of course this is mainly for cool/cold fermented beers. When I throw a
bitter into the keg, I figure I deserve a glass right away for washing 
such a big container;-) It's amazing that in five minutes, there is enough
gas produced to ooze that first glass out of the keg. But IMHO, even
warm flat ales taste better after aging.

Comments?   
Bill Crick Brewius Eons Sum!




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Date: Thu,  9 May 91 08:11:57 CST
From: hplabs!cdp!uunet!inland.com!pals
Subject: Honey, siphons, and bottles

In HBD #631, Randy Tidd writes:

>I'm on my 6th or 7th batch of homebrew now, and wanted to make a lager.
>I decided to use Papaizan's recipe for Rocky Raccoon's Honey Lager with
>slight modifications; I used 4 lbs of light extract (Alexander's) and
>3 lbs of clover honey. I brewed it and pitched a liquid bavarian lager
>yeast.  Once the fermentation got going, I put the fermenter in the
>fridge at about 40F.  The fermentation went real slow once it cooled
>down, then stopped after about 3 days.  I decided it was too cold, so
>I warmed up the fridge a little (from 'E' to 'C' on the little dial
>inside -- wonderful gauge, that) and racked the beer to a secondary.
>Now it's been going for about 4-1/2 more weeks!  The lock has been
>glubbing about once every 20-30 seconds the whole time.  Now the beer
>is clear enough that I can see little bubbles inside as it ferments.
>Will this beer be ready to drink anytime this year? This is taking much
>much longer than I expected.

One point to remember is that honey takes a long time to ferment.  I
recently bottled a Mild Ale that contained 4 pounds of amber DME and
a bit less than a pound of honey, and used Wyeast ale yeast.  Normally,
I would expect this to be done fermenting in about a week at 65 F.  With
the honey, it took 3-4 weeks!  And for a good portion of that time, the
fermentation lock was going at 5-6 glubs/minute (constant).  By the way,
this stuff turned out great - it will make a wonderful summer beer.
When it got down to the area of 1 glub/min, I bottled with my normal
prime - 3/4 cup corn sugar.  This stuff is *carbonated*, as the honey
wasn't completely fermented out - but I like it that way for a light
summer beer.

Also in HBD #631, Dave Huyink writes:

>I siphon twice with every batch, once from the primary fermenter (food
>grade plastic) to the secondary (glass carboy) and once more from the 
>secondary to the bottles.  I start the siphon by sucking on the tube.
>I always clean the tube before each use.  

I use a turkey baster to start the siphon.  It works reasonably well.  The
area that causes difficulty is where the soft plastic tubing fits over the
hard plastic racking tube.  This increase in diameter plus the occasionaly
air leak at this point sometimes breaks the flow. 

In HBD #632, Matt Harrington writes:

>I'm about to sanitize my bottles for my first batch of homebrew.  Some
>of the bottles came from the recycling bin in my dormatory (sp?) so I can't
>vouch that the people that drank from them were healthy. Should I soak the
>entire bottle under water+bleach overnight?  Or is filling the bottle
>sufficient?  Help! I can't relax and have a homebrew knowing that I could
>get hepatitus or something...

Bottles I have just received from elsewhere (a liquor store, etc) are some
of the grossest things I've ever laid eyes on.  I'd say over 50% have large,
nasty mold colonies growing in the bottom.  I've found cigarrette butts and
even *live* bugs in the bottles.  So, my routine for these "new" bottles
is (1) fill about 2 inches with *strong* (1 oz. per gallon or more) bleach
solution.  Soak overnight - this should loosen the mold colonies.  Then, I
put them in the laundry tub and soak them inside *and out* in another 
bleach solution of 2 oz per 5 gallons.  Rinse thoroughly.

Now, I don't go nearly this far once I've used the bottles.  I rinse them
well right after drinking from them.  Before using again, I soak the
insides only in a weak bleach solution and then rinse thoroughly.

Randy Pals
pals at inland.com


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #634, 05/10/91
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