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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Pitching and Traveling (IOCONNOR)
  Legal 'Shine? and Alchemical Symbols (TSAMSEL)
  fresh/aged beer (Russ Gelinas)
  hop growing conditions (Chip Hitchcock)
  Whoa, major hop information mistake! (flowers)
  re alternate grains (sources for malted rye) (Chip Hitchcock)
  rye (mcnally)
  Not really related to brewing... (flowers)
  Those Brits (BAUGHMANKR)
  Wheat beer (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
  More on Rye (paul)
  Mystery Ingredient (rob derrick)
  Sanitation (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)


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[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date:    Mon, 13 May 1991 6:25:18 EDT
From: IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU
Subject: Pitching and Traveling

Many thanks to those who responded to my request for info about 
starters.  I got two replies but I lost one.  My node had a problem 
Friday so I got the one by Brian Smithey6--could the other fellow 
re-mail to me?

I also lost info on going to London.  Someone indicated that there was 
the Beer Festival and sent quite a long list about bre pubs, etc.  
Could you send it again.

I apologize for using the list this way, however I don't have any of 
the addresses.

Thanks a lot.

Kieran O'Connor
 
Bitnet:  IOCONNOR at SUNRISE         Internet: IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU


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Date: Mon, 13 MAY 91 13:23:34 BST
From: GAINS at vax.lse.ac.uk




First, a question:

Has anyone tried (preferably successfully) to make the Czechoslovakian
Budwieser Budvar?  At risk of stirring up national pride, dare I say I
prefer it to the American Budweiser.

Second, an answer:

A reader mentioned a book "Making beers like those you buy". I have a 1983
version of this, and it includes (amongst many others) Bishops Tipple and
Old Peculier. Rather than clutter up HBD I will email the recipes to any
one interested.

Yours expecting bud-related hate mail

Ade

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Date:    Mon, 13 May 1991 8:45:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV
Subject: Legal 'Shine? and Alchemical Symbols

  Please confirm this:(or not).
  A friend claims that it has recently become legal to produce 2 gallons of
distilled spirits per adult per year. I doubt this. Has anyone else heard
this?
  The use of the the Star of David in Alchemy may have a strong Cabalistic
connection, with Islamic/Jewish overtones. Like in FOUCAULT'S PENDULUM!!
  Ted

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Date:    Mon, 13 May 1991 9:28:50 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: fresh/aged beer

I think there's something to be said for both. It depends on the brew. I've
had a keg of amber ale from the Commonwealth Brewery in Cambridge, MA that
was explosive in its "fresh-baked" (like bread) aroma and flavor.  That
beer needs no aging, and it shouldn't be aged.  But it was professionally 
made.  My own ales tend to improve with a few weeks of 60 degree aging,
and what they lose in freshness is more than offset by the gain in 
smoothness.  I think this has been said before on the list...If you make
the brew "correctly", it should be drunk fresh. Aging will help to cover
up the mistakes.

Now as for old beer, I had some Red Star Ale, from *East* Germany, so it
was made before the unification.  It still tasted very good. No off flavors.
Did East Germany prescribe to the Rheingesbot, or did they allowed
preservatives?  It might have been Red Star lager....

I notice clove flavor/aroma in all German beer, not just wheat beer.  Even
in Becks.  Is this just a case of taste-sensitivity, like the aluminum (oh
no he said it) debate, or does the "standard" German yeast produce clove
esters?

Russ (from Manchester....BFD!)


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Date: Mon, 13 May 91 10:03:40 EDT
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: hop growing conditions

  "above the 50th parallel"? There aren't many hop fields in Canada;
perhaps you mean below? (NB, the northern border of the US is the 49th
parallel.)
   The remarks I've seen (e.g., in the hop issue of ZYMURGY) say that hops
grow best between ~40 and ~50, but that's an approximation subject to
climates; it also said there haven't been hops grown commercially in NY
(latitudes 40-47N) for many years (maybe hops like the wet weather and mild
winters of WA/OR more?) and all of Kent (UK) is above 50N.

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Date: Mon, 13 May 1991 10:02:09 -0600
From: flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu
Subject: Whoa, major hop information mistake!

>Hops grow best above the 50th parallel which is why Washington and Oregon
>are hop country.  That's not to say they WON'T grow anywhere else.  It's
>always worth a try.


No, no, no.  That should be the 40th parallel!  I'd like to say it was a
typo, but really I just got my numbers confused.  It was pointed out to me
that the 50th parallel is in Canada.  We all know hops grow well in
Washington!

Sorry for the mistake and thanks to those who pointed it out.

 -Craig Flowers


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Date: Mon, 13 May 91 10:25:42 EDT
From: cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re alternate grains (sources for malted rye)

   I think Canadian whisky has a fair amount of rye in it; maybe CC could
tell you where to get malted rye (I wouldn't bet they'd be willing...).

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Date: Mon, 13 May 91 08:15:40 -0700
From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Subject: rye


In HBD 635, C. R. Saikley mentions that rye is malted in Scotland for
whiskey, but no-one imports it here.  That seems mighty strange to me,
since I was under the impression that American whiskies are made with
rye while Scotch whiskey is made from barley.  It may be that the Scots
use rye as an adjunct, but I'd think that the quantities use would be
dwarfed by American whiskey production.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Mon, 13 May 1991 10:26:46 -0600
From: flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu
Subject: Not really related to brewing...

I'm expanding my brewing operation...I just became engaged over the
weekend.  She's not a brewer, but she does like to drink it!

 -Craig Flowers

PS - Sorry, just HAD to say it.


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Date: Mon, 13 May 1991 11:46 EST
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: Those Brits

>I never even
>heard of anyone using a fermentation lock for beer until I
>came here!  A loose lid always did the trick for me in
>England.  Are there different bacterias here or is it just
>paranoia?

Yeah and those are the guys that drive on the wrong side of
the road, too.  :-)

"Loose lids sink sips"

Ouch! I'm outta here.....

I'm not even gonna sign this thing....

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Date: Mon, 13 May 91 12:30:08 EDT
From: (Mark Stevens) <stevens at stsci.edu>
Subject: Wheat beer


In Homebrew Digest #635, Randy Tidd (rtidd at mwunix.mitre.org) asked about
brewing wheat beers with extracts.

On the issue of adding extra hops: Probably not a good idea. Wheat beers
are generally not real hoppy, and most recipes either omit or go very light
on finishing hops.
On the issue of yeast: Yes, there are special wheat beer yeasts. The Brewers
Choice line from Wyeast Labs has a liquid culture (I believe it's either
#3026 or #3056) called "Bavarian Wheat". This is a very good choice for a
wheat beer, although I've also had reasonably good results from their
European Ale yeast. [Your mail address looks like it's in the D.C. area,
in which case, you can get the Wyeast liquid cultures from BrewMasters
in Rockville.] 

Okay, now a recipe:
This turned out so good that I brewed two batches, the first was called
"Jihad Better Have a Beer" [named by Karl Lutzen---thanks Karl], and the
second was dubbed "Casual Dunkelweizen". 

3.3#   Northwestern weizen extract
3.3#   Northwestern amber extract 
1/2#   crystal malt (crushed)
1/2 cup black patent malt (lightly crushed)
1 tsp. gypsum
1/2 tsp. Irish moss
8.6 AAU hops (I used 2 ounces of Mt. Hood at 4.3%)
Wyeast Bavarian Wheat liquid yeast

The black patent was *VERY* lightly crushed (I just ran a heavy rolling pin
over it a few times) because I just wanted a light brown beer---not a black
beer. The grains were steeped to just before boil and strained out. Add
extract and all of the hops. Boil 60 minutes. Add to cold water in fermenter
and pitch yeast.

Cheers!
- ---Mark Stevens
   stevens at stsci.edu


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Date: Mon, 13 May 91 11:00:58 -0700
From: paul at Rational.COM
Subject: More on Rye

From: kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson)

>Has anyone out there ever tried using rye in brewing?  Besides
>barley, I've heard of wheat, oats, corn and rice being used in
>brewing, what about rye??  What other grains am I missing?

A couple of pubs near where I was living in England were selling a beer
called Rogen around the end of last year and beginning of this year.  It
is made by the Bavarian brewer Thurn & Taxis, and the pubs also sold their
Hefeweizen (wheat beer - also widely available at Tesco supermarkets).
The label claimed it was the first beer to revive a style not brewed for
decades (I forget the exact number, but could easily have been over 100
years).  Written in German, it said something about it not surviving a
particularly bad succession of rye harvests.

Like the weizen, the Rogen came in half litre bottles and they supplied 
the tall weizen "vases" to drink it from.  It was much darker that the weizen,
a deep, reddy brown, and was also much smoother.  Poured correctly (up-ending
the bottle and shaking to get the last dregs out) it had the same massive head,
but held it better than the wheat beer (the glasses probably hadn't been
rinsed too well, which didn't help).  Taste-wise, it was delicious: 
reminiscent of the better English mild ales, sweetish and smooth.  It
rapidly became a favourite for when I was feeling rich; at 1.75 pounds it
was considerably more than a pint of bitter (around 1.25 to 1.35).

The pubs are both owned by Brent Walker.  They are the Tap and Spile,
Crouch Hill/Stroud Green Road, near Finsbury Park, London (part of a themed
chain specializing in constantly varying selections of independent brewers
real ales) and Fat Harry's near the Sobell Centre, also near Finsbury Park.
I won't guarantee either still has the Rogen, but both carry a rewarding
selection of ales.

Let me know if anyone finds this in California!

Paul

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Jasper		     3320 Scott Boulevard      Phone: +1 (408) 496-3762
RATIONAL		     Santa Clara	       Fax:   +1 (408) 496-3636
Object-Oriented Products     CA 95054-3197 USA	       Email: paul at rational.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 13 May 91 11:45:24 MDT
From: rxxd at doc.lanl.gov (rob derrick)
Subject: Mystery Ingredient

Dear Brewbie,

Can you tell me what the mystery ingredient in Olde brewing is,
namely, something called "God is Good"?  I have a quote from ~1700's
which goes something like - "Anyone that doth put anything else to 
their ale than is rehearsed, than yeast, barley malt, or God is Good,
doth sophistical their ale...".  Sign me, Curious in Kenoma. 

rob derrick

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Date: Mon, 13 May 91 15:50:07 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Sanitation

All this talk of starting siphons with one's mouth and not
sanitizing bottles before bottling makes me feel that I
should comment.  I feel that these two procedures should not
be recommended as being okay.  I'd like to point out that
if you drink the entire batch within two weeks of it being
carbonated, then you could probably not boil anything and
ferment in your toilet bowl.  However, I have four homebrews
on tap at all times plus a couple aging, so that sometimes
a beer will take two or three months to be consumed.  In my
experience, if I cut one corner in my usual sanitation
procedure, I get (probably) a lactobacillus infection after
8 - 10 weeks.  I suggest following the usual procedures
recommended in the texts and sticking with them.  Once you
make a habit of them, they don't get in the way and don't
increase brewing time that much.
Al.
korz at ihlpl.att.com


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #636, 05/14/91
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