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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Germany (Rob)
  HBD No's 635 & 636 ("Dr. John")
  Re: Roggen (Fritz Keinert)
  ?'s (Russ Gelinas)
  dates for beer fest??? (pmh)
  Hops 'n questions ("KATMAN.WNETS385")
  Homebew supply stores on Je (Bob Hettmansperger)
  Homebew supply stores on Jersey Shore?
  mead ferment times (Ken Johnson)
  Wheat Beer (MC2331S)
  Hops & NY, Gingered Pale Ale at AHA Conference (hersh)
  pilsener urquell (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  MALT (BEER) VINEGAR. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  rye in beer (florianb)
  Re:  Sanitation (Greg Wageman)
  Capping Bottles (IOCONNOR)
  Grolsch Bottles (IOCONNOR)
  Varia (Norm Hardy)
  Strange hoplike herbs (Paul Michelman)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
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[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date:         Tue, 14 May 91 04:26:03 CST
From: Rob <C08926RC at WUVMD.Wustl.Edu>
Subject:      Germany

My in-laws are traveling to Germany, Austria and France soon.  What
beers should I ask them to bring back for me?  I'd like to get some
that are not available in the states.  BTW, is EKU Kulminator Urtyp
Hell available in the U.S.?

Thanks!


Rob

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Date:         Tue, 14 May 91 07:58:00 EDT
From: "Dr. John" <JELJ at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      HBD No's 635 & 636

In HBD #636 C.R. Saikley mentions a wild rice beer.

Just to set the record straight, this is brewed by the Capital Brewing Co.,
Madison, next to Middleton, is the capital city of Wisconsin, but the
brewery name doesn't contain "City."  I have yet to taste this brew, though
all the other products I've had from this brewery have been very good.


Just to add my empirical evidence to the two-handled capper discussion, I have
broken the tops off of a few bottles with mine.  Haven't done so since I
received a Colona(?) single-handled capper for Christmas a couple (3?) years
ago (probably due to the fact that I retired the 2-handled job then :-)).  The
Colona capper is capable of capping some types of bottles I couldn't
cap with the 2-handler, and also speeds up my bottling considerably.


In today's digest, Rob Derrick asks about "God is Good"

I beleive this is a term that was used for yeast, in the period before its
importance in brewing was understood.  There were other terms, I beleive
"barm" was one of them though am sure someone will correct me if I'm
mistaken :-), that were used in that period also.

Good brewing,

Dr. John

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Date: Tue, 14 May 91 07:19:41 CDT
From: Fritz Keinert <keinert at iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: Roggen

>> A couple of pubs near where I was living in England were selling a beer
>> called Rogen around the end of last year and beginning of this year.  It
          ^^
You probably mean "Roggen". "Rogen" means "roe", as in fish eggs.
"Roggen" is rye.

>> is made by the Bavarian brewer Thurn & Taxis, and the pubs also sold their
                                  ^^

Thurn & Taxis is one of the largest privately owned German business
conglomerates, maybe THE largest. Sort of like Rockefeller or Trump.
Apparently, there is also a brewery in there (or several).

>> Hefeweizen (wheat beer - also widely available at Tesco supermarkets).
 
For those who don't know: "Hefe" means yeast. A Hefeweizen still
contains lots of yeast and is cloudy. The filtered, clear stuff is called
"Kristallweizen". 

Fritz Keinert                             phone:  (515) 294-5128
Department of Mathematics                 fax:    (515) 294-5454
Iowa State University                     e-mail: keinert at iastate.edu
Ames, IA 50011

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Date:    Tue, 14 May 1991 8:54:01 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: ?'s

A couple of them:  I've seen a couple of people mention putting black
patent malt into wheat beers.  Is that a common practice?  Every wheat
beer I've had/made was light colored and flavored, with no call for
black patent.  I don't see how it would fit.  Also, I think you *should*
use a good amount of aromatic hops (Hallertau works very well) in a
wheat beer.  It may not be "in the style", but the combination of the big 
head and the light flavor makes a lighter AAU hop very noticeable. Try it.

I guess that's only one ?.

Russ

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Date: Tue, 14 May 91 09:19:12 EDT
From: pmh at media-lab.media.mit.edu
Subject: dates for beer fest???

Does anyone know the dates and location for the CAMRA "Great British
Beer Festival"?  I went to it last August in Brighton and liked it
so much I want to go back...
thanks,
			------------------------------------
Paul Hubel		     USQUE AD MORTEM BIBENDUM
			------------------------------------

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Date: Tue, 14 May 91 15:49 GMT
From: "KATMAN.WNETS385" <6790753%356_WEST_58TH_5TH_FL%NEW_YORK_NY%WNET_6790753 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Hops 'n questions



     Date: 14-May-91      Time: 11:51 AM       Msg: EXT01082

Hello,

1) if you grow hops be prepared; they take over and may strangle your other
plants. Put them in a separate area or use that plastic stuff you bury as an
underground fence.

I'm planning to start a batch (extract only) in about 2 weeks.
2) Are Grolsch type bottles ok to put homebrew in?

3) What effect on my beer will a small vibration have? The only place to put
the fermenter is near the washers on the cement floor. Bottled beer will be
upstairs, so any sediment will be able to settle out in the bottle.

Lee Katman == Thirteen/WNET == New York, NY

=Do not= use REPLY or ANSWERBACK, I can not receive mail in that fashion.
Please send all mail to
INTERNET katman.wnets385%wnet_6790753 at mcimail.com
OR
MCIMAIL EMS: wnet 6790753  MBX: katman.wnets385



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Date: 14 May 91 12:41:31
From: Bob Hettmansperger <Bob_Hettmansperger at klondike.bellcore.com>
Subject: Homebew supply stores on Je

Time:     12:36 PM           Date:    5/14/91

Subject:  Homebew supply stores on Jersey Shore?


Help.  I live in Monmouth County on the Northern Jersey Shore (no, that's
*not* what I need help with) and I'd like to find a homebrew supply store
that's not too far away.  I figure there's got to be one around, but the 
closest I've come so far is in Manhattan.  Can anybody help?

Thanks

Bob Hettmansperger (I also receive email at bobh at twinkie.bellcore.com)



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Date: Tue, 14 May 91 11:11:30 PDT
From: kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson)
Subject: mead ferment times

I was wondering how long before the activity of the yeast slows down in this
mead.  I bought 15 lb of honey for 5 gal.  It's been fermenting for about
five weeks right now.  OG 1100 SG 1060 right now.  If it will finish near 1000,
how long is this going to take before I can bottle?  The yeast was Red Star
Champagne, and the ingredients were water and honey.  Should I add some yeast
nutrient next time?

kj

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Date: Tue, 14 May 91 13:46 CDT
From: MC2331S at ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
Subject: Wheat Beer

	After seeing the wheat beer tips inthe last issue (624?) I have my
own question.  Has anybody ever used M&F wheat extract?  It is, I think, 55%
wheat and 45% barley.  Does it work?  Is is good?  In a similar vein, does 
anybody have a {extract} recipie for Berliner Weisse?
	Mark Castleman
	Big Dog Brewing Cooperative
	MC2331S at ACAD.DRAKE.EDU

Beer is our business, and we're late for work -- Locomotive Breath Steam Beer

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Date: Tue, 14 May 91 14:46:44 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Hops & NY, Gingered Pale Ale at AHA Conference


My understanding was that upstate NY and Western Mass. were big hop growing
regions, but shortly after the opening of the West (in a commercial sense)
in the late 19th/early 20th Century more hops began to be grown out West.

I was told that the final nail in the coffin of Eastern hop growing was a nasty
fungus which destroyed the commercial viability of the crop in this region.

Hops acreage now is tightly controlled by the USDA and one needs to be
registered and/or licensed to grow hops. This has to do with some type of
bidding system to insure an adequate supply for commercial breweries.
Sounds like restraint of trade to me though...

And a warning to all planning to attend the AHA conference. I am brewing up a
batch of my soon to be infamous Gingered Pale Ale (4 oz chopped ginger, 2oz
Eroica + some Sticklbract), talk about a beer with a bite. Look for it at the
AHA club night or the Wort Processors Courtesy Suite.

JaH


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Date:     Tue, 14 May 91 15:19:07 EDT
From: William Boyle (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  pilsener urquell

>Has anyone tried (preferably successfully) to make the Czechoslovakian
>Budwieser Budvar?  At risk of stirring up national pride, dare I say I
>prefer it to the American Budweiser.

Is this the same as pilsener urquell, anyway, my question is in TCJoHB there
is a recipe for pilsener urquell called "Propensity Pilsener Lager".  In this
recipe it calls for Bierhaus Light Lager Kit, and Lager yeast.  Has anybody
brewed the Pilsener urquell, if so could you post the recipe.  Also is it a
true Lager or a Steam Beer.  I can't find Bierhaus Light Lager Kit, and what
type of Lager yeast, there are so many?
                                                B^2


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Date: 14 May 91 15:25:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: MALT (BEER) VINEGAR.

I have had good luck making cider and wine vinegars, but have never tried a 
malt vinegar.  I'm informed the technique is basically the same:  You start 
with a vinegar mother for the kind you want and some of the basic 
ingredient and let it acetic acid ferment for a few months.

What I am wondering is if anyone here has tried it with different styles of 
beer.  I'm sure a malt vinegar made with a Pilsner would be rather 
different from one made with a Porter.  Any adventursome souls out there 
who like malt vinegar on fish?

Dan
"Beer made with the Derry air, (Derry, New Hampshire).


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Date: Tue, 14 May 91 13:20:57 PDT
From: florianb at chip.CNA.TEK.COM
Subject: rye in beer

For the benefit of the person who inquired about using rye in brewing.

I have used rye with good success in the past.  I purchased the rye
by the pound at a nearby feed store.  I cracked it along with my
other grains (I brew all grain) and mash it along with the malt.
The recipes I have dreamed up use maximum 1 pound of rye, but there
is no reason why more could not be used.  According to Papazian, it
converts readily in a normal mash, even though it has no or very
little enzyme.  The enzyme is provided by the balance of the malt.

I have used it in both lager and ale.  It imparts a flavor which I
can only describe as "pointed."  It appears to accent the bitterness
of hops, the dryness of pilsener, and the statement of strong ale.
If these words are insufficient to describe its flavor, I'm sorry.
For better information, you could try it yourself.

Another grain I've had delightful results with is triticale.  I buy
rolled triticale at the local giant food store out of the bulk bins.
I add it in the amount of 1/4 to 1/2 pound per batch of beer, again
all-grain recipes.  It goes in right in the mash in the beginning.
Note that I do a protein rest at 122 degrees F for 30 minutes.
This grain seems to impart smoothness to the brew.

BTW, rye will not add cloudiness to your brew; in fact, it may help
clarify the beer.  Don't ask me how.  

florian


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Date: Tue, 14 May 91 13:47:51 PDT
From: greg at cemax.com (Greg Wageman)
Subject: Re:  Sanitation

I just have to stick my two cents in after reading all the postings
saying, "I don't worry about sanitation, and have only had X bad
batches out of Y...".

First of all, depending on where you live (and how often you clean),
the number and kind of flora in the air differs tremendously.  I've
brewed in a basement condo in southern New Hampshire, and now do so in
the S.F. Bay area.

Both areas have two things in common: dampness (in the form of humidity
here, drought notwithstanding) and a propensity for mold.  Mold spores
are present in the air constantly in humid areas, and will settle and
grow on virtually anything the least bit damp (for example, the inside
of rinsed, uncovered beer bottles).  Needless to say, sanitation is of
the utmost importance in this kind of climate, otherwise homebrew tends
to develop a grey-green head in the bottle.  Not a pretty sight, and
even worse for the flavor.

The human mouth is another wonderful repository for bacteria of several
kinds.  Most will happily grow in your homebrew.  This is why starting
a siphon with your mouth is a bad idea.  If you are siphoning from the
secondary, it will take longer for the bacteria to get started, but if
you lager or age in the bottle for any length of time you *will* see an
infection.  The bacteria will digest sugars that yeast will not,
leading to drier and drier beer, gushers and grunge.

Yuck.

Secondly:  I don't know about the rest of you, but I find brewing to be
a fair bit of work.  Like most people who work for a living, I don't
have a whole lot of free time to waste, so if a little bit of extra
care in sanitation is going to save me from having to toss the product
of several hours labor and ~$30 worth of materials because of an
infection, I'm all for it.

So, I guess the point is this: if you can get away with poor sanitation
because of where you live, or don't mind dumping an occasional batch,
good for you.  But don't mislead others into thinking that this is a
desirable or even acceptable practice for anyone else.  Many beginners
look to this list for good advice, and you're not doing them any
favors by downplaying the importance of sanitation.

	-Greg (cemax!greg at sj.ate.slb.com)


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Date:    Tue, 14 May 1991 17:26:11 EDT
From: IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU
Subject: Capping Bottles

I saw a show about wine bottling the other day.  They say to lean 
bottles of wine on the side to keep the caps moist and the cork 
therefore expanded.  While I realize that most don't use cork caps, 
would there be any benefit to laying your bottles on the side, or 
would any advantages outweigh the fact that the sediment will be all 
over the bottle?

Second question--I have a bag of caps with cork in them--anyone have 
any experience using them?  I got them as a gift--but don't want to 
ruin a batch if they will screw up the brew.  Would it be to my 
advantage to age a brew capped with *these* caps?

Kieran O'Connor

IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU  internet
IOCONNOR at SUNRISE  (bitnet)

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Date:    Tue, 14 May 1991 18:19:08 EDT
From: IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU
Subject: Grolsch Bottles

I like to use the Grolsch re-sealable bottles for bottling.  The are 
16 ounces and they are re-sealable.  Capping is a breeze!  The problem 
however, is getting them.  Does anyone know where I could get a lot at 
a reasonable price?  I know I can get the gaskets, but the bottles?  
Or similar ones?

Kieran

IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU
IOCONNOR at SUNRISE (bitnet)

PS it's sunny and 80 degress in Syracuse, NY.

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Date: Tue, 14 May 91 15:41:08 PDT
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Varia

1. God is Good (indeed!) refers to the yeas  Back in the old days they
   didn't understand microorganisms as we (but not I) do now.

2. Hop growing is best in WA and OR (and Idaho too) because of the seasonal
   temperature differences (not TOO extreme).  Heck, even in Latte-land 
   Seattle my hops are 10 feet up to the trellis and very hardy (hearty?)
   despite a coospringtime here in America's most overrated city.

3. Czech Budweiser Budvar is not to be compared to the #1 selling A-B
   product.  T real thing is 5% alcohol by volume with an OG of 1.048
   which is clearly printed on the bottle.  Better on tap though, it is
   smooth and malty with a tawny color and non-threatening hop character.
   The bitterness is just right for the malt.  Let me know when an
   authentic recipe for Klages is available.

4. Age and beers:  recently during a brewing drought I was forced to start
   consuming some ancient brews as old as 5 years.  I was surprised by the
   way most all the brews kept their flavor and in some cases got better;
   by which I mean smoother.  I store the bottles on the basement floor
   which fluxuates between 54 and 62 during a year's time.  Cleanliness
   in the handling of the beers seems to be a very important consideration.
   A few of the beers were gushers but had little flavor loss once the foam
   died down.

5. AHA question:  did the number of entries to the competition (1600+)
   exceed the projected number?  Did the price increase affect the number?

Norm Hardy in Seattle
{

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Date: Tue, 14 May 91 20:04:19 EDT
From: michelma at division.cs.columbia.edu (Paul Michelman)
Subject: Strange hoplike herbs

For the last couple of years, an herbalist friend has been insisting
that I brew a batch of beer -- if you could call it that -- using some
herbs other than hops.  This year, she is expecting a good crop of
ale-hoof, a.k.a. ground ivy.  This plant and some others, including
rosemary, were apparently used in England before hops became widely
accepted.  Are there any adverturous souls out there who have
experimented with these concoctions?  If so, were the results potable?

Paul Michelman
Dept. of Computer Science
Columbia University
New York, N.Y.
michelma at division.cs.columbia.edu

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #637, 05/15/91
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