---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Blueberry mead (chris)
  Homebrew archive "lesson"... (Gary Mason - I/V/S PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  21-May-1991 0847)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #641 (May 21, 1991) (Alan Claver E6 Pattee 5-7213)
  Recipe's ("David E. Husk")
  Re: Drinking game (fwd) (Eric Rose)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #641 (May 21, 1991)  (hersh)
  Re: iraqi brewpubs (James P. Buchman)
  Is pale ale pale (Russ Gelinas)
  Vermont brews (Christopher Connolly)
  Brewpubs in Iraq (C.R. Saikley)
  HEPA Filter Wanted ("Andy Wilcox")
  Re: dates for beer fest??? (paul)
  styrene flavor in HB ("Anton E. Skaugset")
  missing issues...with a pattern observed (R. Bradley)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Mon, 20 May 91 7:53:08 CDT
From: medch!chris at uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Blueberry mead

Someone in HB#639 mentioned a blueberry mead.  I happen to be a
blueberry fiend.  Any chance of posting this recipe?  Thanks...


- -- 
                    #
Chris Hudson        # There are many ways of getting down a pit---
                    #   the easiest, of course, being to simply jump.
X1375               # This practice is to be discouraged, however, 
                    #   because the jumper might injure someone below...
b17a!medch!chris    #   
                    #                           -Roy Davis
IW17A5              #
Intergraph          #  
                    #


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Date: Tue, 21 May 91 08:50:03 -0400
From: mason at habs11.ENET.DEC.COM (Gary Mason - I/V/S PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503 21-May-1991 0847)
Subject: Homebrew archive "lesson"...

OK, OK, consider me suitably chastised for my lack of understanding about 
the vagaries of the archive. I am a VMS person. I am old. It's tough seeing 
that forest out there...too darn many trees in the way!  But I learned 
something in the process (albeit the hard way, as usual). 

Cheers...Gary

P.S. I may be dumb, but I'm stupid  8')

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Date: Tue, 21 May 91 09:08 EDT
From: Alan Claver E6 Pattee 5-7213 <ALC%PSULIAS.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #641 (May 21, 1991)

>Date:  Mon, 20 May 1991 05:40:08 PDT
>From: wegeng at arisia.xerox.com
>Subject: Re: Copyrights, etc.
>
>>As to the possible copyright infringement again, it seems to me that one of

(Stuff about copyright laws removed...)

>certain of this (I am certain that it`s not 0).
>
>Conclusion: it`s probably illegal to send recipes from Dave Line`s book (or any
>homebrewing book, for that matter) to the Homebrew Digest.  In practice it
>seems unlikely that any legal action would be taken against you (or your
>employer if you sent it using a computer at work, or Rob Gardner, or Rob`s
>employer, all for permitting the violation) but that doesn`t make it legal.

No. No. No.  We've had this discussion throughout the various cooking
newsgroups and Fidonet echos. Recipes ARE NOT COPYRIGHTABLE!!! A recipe is a
formula or process, neither of which can be copyrighted. A formula can be
patented ("Our patented fire-brewed process...") but is specifically excluded
from copyright since it is merely an idea.

A cookbook can be copyrighted under a compilation copyright which protects the
total collection of recipes as a book from being reproduced. But, you can take
out a recipe, retype is exactly as is, and put it in your own cookbook with
perfect legality. Now, reproducing the page exactly, with pictures and all,
probably is not legal, but here in the digest the format must have been retyped
and is never substantially the same as the original.

Do you think that Papazian or Miller or Line all have completely original
recipes in their books? Really!

You should have no qualms whatsoever in typing in your favorite recipe into the
digest.

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Date:     Tue May 21 10:38:19 1991
From: "David E. Husk" <deh7g at newton.acc.virginia.edu>
Subject:  Recipe's



	Could the person/person's who are going to provide a text
version of the recipe book mail me a copy or psot a ftp address for 
the text version.  (Mainly because PS drives me crazy) A macintosh 
version (ie recipe.sit.hqx) would also work. Or for that matter 
recipe.zip or recipe.uud.  So long as the recipes are in text.
		Thanks
		Husk at virginia.edu


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Date: Tue, 21 May 91 10:39:50 EDT
From: Eric Rose <rose at aecom.yu.edu>
Subject: Re: Drinking game (fwd)

Dear homebrewians:

     This ditty appeared on a folklore discussion list.  It's a wee bit
lengthy, like all good drinking songs.  Hope you enjoy it.  I've no idea
what the tune would be...


Yours,
e.r.


> >From "Songs of the Pennine Hills. A Book of the Open Air", Ammon Wrigley,
> Geo. Whittaker & Sons, Stalybridge, 1938; a book belonging to my mother, who
> grew up in Lancashire next to the Pennines. - Pete Soper
> 
>               Friezland Ale
>               Home brewed.
> 
>   Friezland - said to mean furze or gorse land - forms part of the Pennine
> parish of Saddleworth, Yorkshire.
> 
> Whene're I drink old Friezland ale,
>   Drawn from a big brown bottle,
> I feel as if a summer morn
>   Were running down my "throttle";*
> A pint of sunshine at a swipe,
>   All sparkle, grip and mettle,
> There's nothing like old home-brewed ale
>   For keeping folk in fettle.
> 
> It runs out of the bottle's neck
>   Like morning's milk but richer,
> And bubbles up in bunches white
>   Like roses in a pitcher;
> But never roses e're can be
>   So full of bloom and sappy,
> A mellow pot of Friezland ale
>   Would make a gatepost happy.
> 
> And when I drink this hearty brew
>   With malt and hops in plenty,
> I'm ten years younger with a pint,
>   And if I've two I'm twenty.
> Then what a fool I'd be to change
>   And join cold water teaching,
> I'd go to church on Sunday morn
>   If Friezland ale were preaching.
> 
> It is the ale that fills my pot
>   With merry song and laughter,
> That makes me feel I'm made of joy
>   And brings no headache after.
> It does not roll me on the road
>   Or set my head a tupping,
> I always feel I'm twice the man
>   When Friezland ale I'm supping.
> 
> There is no ale from barley brewed
>   With half so bold a flavour,
> For English folk and English soil
>   In every drop I savour:
> And they who brew by Friezland moors,
>   In homesteads clean and "warty,"
> Are jannock folk with double chins,
>   And always hale and hearty.
> 
> The ale-wife meets the early morn,
>    When Heaven's brimming over,
> And filling all the meadow lands
>   With buttercups and clover;
> For morning brings her wondrous gifts
>   Of magic taste and witching,
> That make a charmed fairy room
>   Of here old-fashioned kitchen.
> 
> She gathers where the plover roves,
>   As wild bees gather honey,
> Her apron full of fragrant things,
>   The joyous and the sunny;
> The smell of blossom in the lane
>   She catches as she passes,
> And blends it with the sweets she finds
>   Among the mowing grasses.
> 
> She captures, too, the skylark's song,
>   And takes each run and quaver,
> And song of thrush in hedges green,
>   To give her brew a flavour;
> The low of cows at milking time
>   And smell of moorland heather,
> She mixes with her malt and hops
>   And boils them well together.
> 
> And then she takes her brewing tub
>   And lays the "tow" across it,
> She gets her jug of gradely yeast,
>   The "spiggott" and the "fawsitt";
> She knows that going too oft to th' well
>   Will bring good malt to ruin,
> That just eleven quarts to th' peck
>   Will make a Friezland brewing.
> 
> Give me a warm and homely hearth,
>   A pint for quiet drinking,
> There is no woman on this earth
>   I'd marry to my thinking,
> For womenfolk are hard to please,
>   And fond of fine apparel,
> If e'er I wed I'll take for wife
>   A brown old Friezland barrel.
> 
> Now he who drinks this home brewed ale
>   Grows redder than the cherry,
> He walks on daisies all his life
>   In sunshine blithe and merry;
> And in his hand you feel a grip
>   That tells you e's your brother,
> For Friezland ale does parson's work
>   It makes men love each other.
> 
> * Dialect word for throat.
> 

CHEERS!



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Date: Tue, 21 May 91 12:26:17 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #641 (May 21, 1991) 


Cher F. says about off flavors in Mead
>If that isn't the problem, then I would assume that the stainless steel pot is
>the culprit. metal can chemically interact with a boiling wort, with undesirable
> results.

Sorry I don't buy it. You're not going to get off flavors from Stainless Steel.
Stainless is not going to chemically interact with the boiling wort.
Almost every commerical brewer in this country uses Stainless (except those
that use Copper). I have Stainless Surgical Steel implanted in my body, 
Stainless Steel is pretty resistant to chemical reactions, particularly 
oxidations.

I will personally stake a large quantity of my Mead that the source of thise
poor persons (HBD  629 Douglas Allen Luce) off flavors is *NOT* Stainless 
Steel.

And no, I don't have any money invested in the Steel industry.
I just don't want to let you start propagating misinformation, the
Aluminum/Stainless debate is bad enough.

JaH


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Date: Tue, 21 May 91 13:30:44 -0400
From: jpb at tesuji.dco.dec.com (James P. Buchman)
Subject: Re: iraqi brewpubs

> From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
> Subject: brewpubs in iraq
> 
> I am headed to Baghdad in a few months, and was wondering if
> anyone knew of any brewpubs in the area?
> 
> bb

They used to have beer in that area, in the Sumerian Empire days about
four or so thousand years ago. Anchor recently put out a limited edition
of a beer made to a Sumerian recipe, which I hear didn't keep well due
to lack of hops. Since modern Iraq is an Islamic country, I doubt you'll
find any alcoholic beverages sold there legally. (I assume you were kidding)

On a related subject, an archaeologist recently found the oldest wine yet
discovered at a site in Iran, between ancient Sumeria and the Caucasian
mountains. She found pottery fragments from 3500 BC, and intact bottles
from 3000 BC, which still contained traces of wine. Her colleagues were
skeptical at first--they didn't think man knew how to make wine until
many centuries later, and were sure that her samples were just paint.
Now they are all rushing back to test their own collections of pot shards :-)

This wine was definitely "mature" after aging for fifty centuries, but
unfortunately it had dried out and was not drinkable. Does anyone know
the record for the oldest wine that's still sloshing around in the bottle
and theoretically drinkable? Last I heard, it was >2000 year old wine
found in intact amphorae by Jaques Cousteau at the bottom of the Agean.
He actually took a swig from one of the bottles and said it was pretty good.

I didn't catch the archaeologist's name, but she says her next project
is to discover the oldest beer.
			Jim Buchman

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Date:    Tue, 21 May 1991 13:45:39 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: Is pale ale pale

Yes I know I made a mistake.  I described Long Trail pale ale as
not being pale, but as being amber.  Well I know that pale ale *is* usually
amber.  But the Long Trail ale had this orange/reddish glow sort of color;
it struck me as a strange color.  Maybe it only looked strange because
of the lighting in the house, or in comparison to the other pale ales
I was having, or because I just plain had too many pale ales.

When does a pale ale become a brown ale?

Russ

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Date: Tue, 21 May 91 13:53:35 -0400
From: connolly%livy at cs.umass.edu (Christopher Connolly)
Subject: Vermont brews


From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
>I also had another VT made ale on tap, but can't remember its name. It
>was made in Bridgeport (?).  It was also a pale ale. It *was* pale, a
>little cloudy, and light.  Little maltiness, little hopiness. A nice
>yuppie beer. Actually it would be nice on a hot summer day.  It seemed
>"cleaner" than the Long Trail, but maybe that's 'cuz it was on tap (at
>3 Dollar Dewey's in Burlington, VT. Great place, about 15 different
		     ^ Brattleboro? Or is there one in Burlington too?
>beers on tap, from local VT brews to Spaten Bock!).
yow!

Vermont brews on tap at Dewey's in Brattleboro are:
 Long Trail				from Bridgewater
 Otter Creek				from Middlebury
 Catamount Golden, Amber, Porter	from White River Junction
 Dewey's own	(or at least they *said* it would be ready by now)
					from Brattleboro

The (cloudy pale) ale you describe sounds like Otter Creek.
As far as I know, there is one other brewery in Vt., the Burlington
pub and brewery, and one brewpub-in-the-making just around the corner
from Dewey's at the Latchis Hotel in Brattleboro.

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Date: Tue, 21 May 91 11:35:25 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Brewpubs in Iraq


From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)


>I am headed to Baghdad in a few months, and was wondering if
>anyone knew of any brewpubs in the area?

I love it!!!

Try Ahmed's Ale House on Al Shiekh Ave.
The SCUD Steam Beer will knock your socks off, and 
Camel Dung Brown Ale is the proverbial nectar of Allah.

Across town, try Saddam's Place. 
They have a very aggressive Western Imperial Stout, but the
George Bush Bitter was a too astringent for my tastes.


Enjoy your stay,
CR (ibn Brahim) Saikley

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Date: Tue, 21 May 91 14:50:03 -0400
From: "Andy Wilcox" <andy at eng.ufl.edu>
Subject: HEPA Filter Wanted


In the last several weeks, I've had the priviledge of using
a tissue culture facility to propogate yeast.  There is 
nothing quite like using an industrial autoclave, a 
laminar flow hood, and a temperature controlled shaker!
Needless to say, the resulting cultures are fabulous.
Six hours after pitching a pale ale (with SN yeast, of
course) one quart of blow-off had already accumulated!

Now that I'm addicted, I'd like to get a HEPA (High
Efficiency Particulate Air) filter with which to build
a small laminar flow hood.  Does anybody know a source
for these?  I've found *one* that will sell me a 12"x24"
filter for around $110.  Hopefully they are cheaper 
somewhere else???

/Andy


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Date: Tue, 21 May 91 11:26:22 -0700
From: paul at Rational.COM
Subject: Re: dates for beer fest???

On Tue, 14 May 91 09:19:12 EDT Paul Hubel wrote:

> Does anyone know the dates and location for the CAMRA "Great British
> Beer Festival"?  I went to it last August in Brighton and liked it
> so much I want to go back...

As I haven't seen a reply posted yet, and happen to have the information with
me:

The 1991 CAMRA (Campaign for Real Ale) Great British Beer Festival will be
from 13th to 17th August at the London Arena in London's Docklands.  This
is a MASSIVE venue and is convenient to reach from Central London.

Promised are over 300 cask ales, bottle conditioned beers, foreign beers and 
lagers, cider and perry, pub games, live entertainment and family room.
Opening times are Tuesday 5-10.30pm, Wed-Fri 11.30am-3pm, Sat 11am-10.30pm.
Unlike the Great (sic) American Beer Festival, you pay for the beer, but you
can drink it in larger than thimble-size quantities.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to make it there myself, owing to my current
self-enforced exile.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Jasper		     3320 Scott Boulevard      Phone: +1 (408) 496-3762
RATIONAL		     Santa Clara	       Fax:   +1 (408) 496-3636
Object-Oriented Products     CA 95054-3197 USA	       Email: paul at rational.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Tue, 21 May 91 16:21:37 CDT
From: "Anton E. Skaugset" <skaugset at aries.scs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: styrene flavor in HB

Greetings.

Don't have all the editing capabilities of this system figured out yet, so
forgive my paraphrasing rather than direct quotes.

In digest #641 Cheryl Feinstein commented on a posting from digest #629,
in which Douglas Luce described making a small batch of mead with ginger,
tea, orange peel and honey.  The resulting brew tasted strongly of styrene.

Feinstein suggested that perhaps the use of a stainless steel brew kettle
was to blame.  (Again, forgive the lack of direct quotes.)

#641 was the first HBD I have received, and I hope that this thread hasn't
been beaten into the ground, but I had a similar batch of beer last year.
It was supposed to be a Christmas Ale, based on light malt extract (Munton
and Fison) with some dark specialty malts to add character, and spiced with
1 pound of honey, fresh ginger, and orange peel.  I used an enamel brew 
kettle, primary fermentation in glass, secondary fermentation in glass, and
temperature control was good.  However, the beer tasted *very* strongly of
styrene.  The flavor was sharp initially, and after some months was more 
subdued, but still made the batch undrinkable.

My techniques and ingredients were the same I've used in other batches, and
produced at least drinkable brew, if not outstanding examples.  After reading
the ingredients for Douglas Luce's mead, and the similarity of the off-flavor
(I mean it tastes like polystyrene smells) I wonder if using honey, ginger,
or orange peel can produce this flavor.

Have other homebrewers encountered this particular phenomenon?  I'm 
somewhat reluctant to attempt another "specialty beer" until I have some
idea why the last one failed.  If this topic has already been covered, could
someone please e-mail me the consensus?

Thanks,

Anton Skaugset
skaugset at aries.scs.uiuc.edu
University of Illinois


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Date: Tue, 21 May 91 18:02:08 CDT
From: bradley at dehn.math.nwu.edu (R. Bradley)
Subject: missing issues...with a pattern observed

Why is it that (almost) every time I submit sometheing to the HBD, I
don't receive a copy of the issue it appears in.  Anyone alse have
that difficulty?  Anyone willing to send a copy of #641, or do I
have to read up on `ftp'  :-)

Rob
bradley at math.nwu.edu

P.S.  Sounds like Hempstead has many detractors and no fans.  Oh, well,
      I kinda like Evanston. so maybe I'll fit in just fine.   :-) :-)

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #642, 05/22/91
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