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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: FTP'ing the recipe book... (Ed Falk)
  brewpubs in iraq (Brian Bliss)
  Re: Copyrights, etc. (wegeng)
  weekend spree (Russ Gelinas)
  2-litre PETs, Long Island info (R. Bradley)
  Contents of various whiskeys (Steven M Cohn)
  Copyrights, etc. (Darryl Richman)
  whiskey ingredients and beer stuff (mcnally)
  oops (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Hops Plugs (hersh)
  feed store grains (Dave Barrett)
  Returning to the digest ("FEINSTEIN")
  Re: Recipe book... (a.e.mossberg)
  Recipe book (boubez)
  sterile filtration, AHA Nats (Pete Soper)


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[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Mon, 20 May 91 02:14:25 PDT
From: Ed.Falk at Eng.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Subject: Re: FTP'ing the recipe book...

> 	homebrew% ftp -n mthvax.cs.miami.edu
> 	mthvax.cs.miami.edu: unknown host

Hi all; Jay is having trouble with Sun's "firewall".  The question and
solution are only meaningful within Sun.  I have given him a way to ftp
the recipe book.

	-ed falk

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Date: Mon, 20 May 91 07:36:17 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: brewpubs in iraq


I am headed to Baghdad in a few months, and was wondering if
anyone knew of any brewpubs in the area?

bb


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Date: 	Mon, 20 May 1991 05:40:08 PDT
From: wegeng at arisia.xerox.com
Subject: Re: Copyrights, etc.

>As to the possible copyright infringement again, it seems to me that one of
>the main reasons for the digest is educational, and I beleive the copyright
>laws allow copyrighted material to be photocopied for educational purposes.

Not really.  The Copyright law grants exclusive rights to a work to the owner
of the Copyright.  The owner may then relinquish those rights as they so
desire.  Allowing short excerpts from a work to be printed as part of a review
is an example of this.  Educational use is sometimes permitted, but not always.
The Copyright notice in the book sometimes lists the exemptions that have been
granted, or you can contact the publisher for more information.

One aspect of the law that I`m not clear on is how long the Copyright remains
in effect after the death of the holder.  I think it`s 50 years, but I`m not
certain of this (I am certain that it`s not 0).

Conclusion: it`s probably illegal to send recipes from Dave Line`s book (or any
homebrewing book, for that matter) to the Homebrew Digest.  In practice it
seems unlikely that any legal action would be taken against you (or your
employer if you sent it using a computer at work, or Rob Gardner, or Rob`s
employer, all for permitting the violation) but that doesn`t make it legal.

/Don

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Date:    Mon, 20 May 1991 9:54:55 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: weekend spree

Well, I cleaned up this weekend. I picked up a Lindemann's Frambroise
Lambic, an Orval Trappist Ale, an Aass Pilsner from Norway I think, and
a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Porter, and Stout.  I also had some Long Trail
Ale (made in Vermont):  supposed to be a pale ale, but it was amber, and
had an "over-bitter" character to it, as if it had too much pellet hops
(I know the flavor well...).  Nice malt aroma, but the malt flavor got
lost in the bitter, and it had little hops aroma.  An ok ale, but .....
I also had another VT made ale on tap, but can't remember its name. It
was made in Bridgeport (?).  It was also a pale ale. It *was* pale, a
little cloudy, and light.  Little maltiness, little hopiness. A nice
yuppie beer. Actually it would be nice on a hot summer day.  It seemed
"cleaner" than the Long Trail, but maybe that's 'cuz it was on tap (at
3 Dollar Dewey's in Burlington, VT. Great place, about 15 different
beers on tap, from local VT brews to Spaten Bock!).

I also picked up 2 food grade 4.5 gallon containers.  The plan is to turn
them into a Zapap later tun.  If anyone has done this and has some
suggestions or things to avoid, I'd appreciate the info.

Now, Belgium (Flemish?) beer:  What should I expect from the Lambic and
the Orval.  I've never had either before.  The Orval is dated Feb 1990.
Is that too old to culture the yeast?  What temperature should the
Lambic be served at?

Any info on the Aass pilsner?

All in all, a succesful (and expensive) weekend.

Russ in Manchester

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Date:         Mon, 20 May 91 10:30:24 EDT
From: F5LY at CORNELLF.TC.CORNELL.EDU

I no longer wish to receive HOMEBREW Digest.  Please remove this account
name from your file.  Thanks.

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Date: Mon, 20 May 91 09:42:25 CDT
From: bradley at dehn.math.nwu.edu (R. Bradley)
Subject: 2-litre PETs, Long Island info

In #640, Justin A. Aborn writes:

> The nice man at the PBI said that the 2 liter bottles used for
> soda are made out of PolyEthylene Terathalate (sp?) or PET.  This
> used for liquor and beer bottles in Japan and the UK.  He thought
> there were no worries.  Who knows...

These 2 litre (and 1 litre and even half-litre) PET bottles are also
used in another strange, foreign land:  Canada.  Many micro-brewers
have chosen to use them.  Also, you can buy them in homebrew stores,
where screw-on caps can also be purchased.  There are two types:
the re-usable ones seems more attractive on cost considerations,
but they don't work as reliably as the one-time jobs that have a ring
around the bottom which breaks when the bottle is breached.


On an entirely different note, I finally found a job.  I'll be working
at Adelphi University in Nassau County, Long Island, come September.
Another lonely posting for "un Canadien Errant".  Does anyone have
information on local clubs, homebrew stores and brew pubs (I stress
the "local" in the last point, as Manhattan brewpubs have recently 
been discussed...Adelphi is in Garden City and I'm told that nearby
Hempstead is a nice town).

Thanks,

Rob
bradley at math.nwu.edu

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Date: Mon, 20 May 91 07:58:22 PDT
From: smc at styx.desktalk.com (Steven M Cohn)
Subject: Contents of various whiskeys

Chip Upsal writes:

> Does anybody know what goes into what type of wiskies?

As I understand it:

Scotch: Malted Barley (Blends may use some others)
American/Canadian Whiskey (Seagrams, CC, Crown Royal): Rye
Bourbon (Only in Kentucky): Corn Mash
Sour Mash (Jack Daniels): Corn Mash

As for rye being malted in the US, I beleive that the House of Seagram 
is the largest single consumer of rye in North America.  I doubt that
they buy malted rye though, they probably do it themselves.

Steve

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                                                                             |
| Steven Cohn                           Internet:       smc at desktalk.com      |
| Staff Engineer                        Voice:          (213) 323-5998        |
| DeskTalk Systems Inc                  Fax:            (213) 323-6197        | 
| Torrance, CA  90502                                                         |
|                                                                             |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+


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Date: Mon, 20 May 91 07:57:43 -0700
From: darryl at ism.isc.com (Darryl Richman)
Subject: Copyrights, etc.

>   And lastly, this gives me an opening to broach a subject that has been
> bothering me for some time.  To my knowledge, Dave Line was the originator
> of the alpha acid units concept.  Now, for those of you who read Zymurgy,
> have you ever noticed the striking similarity between Homebrew Bittering Units
> and alpha acid units?  (a rose by any other name . . . :-))  I am open to

Actually, HBUs are not the same as AAUs.  HBUs are not as useful a unit,
because they aren't volume neutral.  (For thos who don't understand
what I'm getting at:  1 AAU = 1 oz. 1% alpha acid hops/1 gallon.
1 HBU = 1 oz. 1% alpha acid hops.  Therefore, any information that
quotes an HBU level must also specify the batch size, or else it's
useless.  That's not true for AAUs.)  Papazian "simplified" AAUs
because "everyone" makes 5 gallon batches.

I like Dave Line's Big Book of Brewing a lot and still refer to it.
It has got its drawbacks:  for USians, the English volume units
can cause trouble;  he specifies saccharin for several recipes because
his equipment did not allow him the temperature control he needed to
get a good, high dextrin mash, and once again for us, he calls for
a lot of sugars that I have not seen in the local Safeway.  But especially
considering just how long ago the book was written, it is a milestone
work.  And it is a good reference when investigating English styles.  His
bedtime story for enzymes is still not surpassed ;-).

		--Darryl Richman


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Date: Mon, 20 May 91 08:57:14 -0700
From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Subject: whiskey ingredients and beer stuff


When I said rye is used in American whisky, I should have said "some
American whisky is made with rye."  Like, maybe, "rye whisky".

Here's a brewing note: I've been using the technique suggested a few 
digests back of rinsing chlorine residues with cheap beer.  I'm very
satisfied with the results, which are mostly that I worry less (i.e.,
I'm not sure I've tasted any difference in the beer).  At about $3.69
a twelve-pack, Blatz is the best deal around here.  (As an aside, I
was struck by the pronounced yeastiness of this stuff.  I didn't try
any, just smelled it.)

Another brewing note:  I got a notably higher extraction rate from a 
mash this weekend.  I was thinking about life and mashing and stuff while
I was in the recirculation phase (lauter tun->stovetop->lauter tun)
when I decided that recirculation of some sparge water might be a good
idea.  I figured that the whole point was to extract as much soluble
sugar as possible.  Since a single pass through the grain bed is unlikely
to fully exploit the solvent capabilities of the water, I figured I can
give it a better chance by draining off some wort, adding some sparge
water (maybe a gallon), then recirculating for a few minutes.  I realized
that I might be risking greater extraction of husk polyphenols, but I
decided it was worth a try; besides, my sparge water was acidified to
about pH 5.5.  The result was an extract rate of about 31 for my mix
of 7 lbs. 2-row, 1 lb. wheat, and 1 lb. mmedium crystal.  We'll see how
it turns out. . .

Finally: anybody who's thought of building a RIMS for mashing, but has
been daunted by the complexity, I'd like to share ideas.  Complete lack
of understanding of thermodynamics, mechanical engineering, and fluid
dynamics hasn't stopped me from planning various simplifications to the
original plans (which came from Zymurgy? Somebody faxed them to me...)
Anyhow, drop me a line if you want to share ideas.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Mon, 20 May 91 10:41:29 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: oops

I wrote:
>so the transfer tube part is a mute point.
                                ^^^^
I meant moot.  Blame it on too much blood in the alcohol system.
Al.


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Date: Mon, 20 May 91 13:49:37 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Hops Plugs


Here here, I second that recommendation. These things are very convenient, and
are available in a few varieties, which will probably increase as they catch on.

I toss one or two into hop boiling bags. They seem to break up nicely in hot
wort, but I suggest you break them up if you're dry hopping with them.

JaH


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Date:         20 May 91 14:07:22 EST
From: Dave Barrett <DAVE.BARRETT at OFFICE.WANG.COM>
Subject:      feed store grains


Sorry to beat an almost dead horse, but I've been off the net for a while.

To Florian & Kinney:

Before I gave up all hope and became a computer weenie I was a pre-vet
student at Michigan State.  Other posters to the Digest have stated that you
really don't have to worry about pestisides and the like in the grains you buy
from feed stores.  This is true as long as it is intended to feed animals that
are to be used for human consumption.  Lots of nasty things are allowed if
the animals will never be served up.

What you do have to worry about is enzymes and hormones.

Both of these are often added to feed grain to increase/improve milk & meat
production.  Fortunently nothing in life (or feed stores) is free.  Thus you
have to pay extra for these wonderful chemical additives.  Ask the people
running the feed store if either of these are in what your buying.  If they
ain't there you should be OK.

Oh, another thing often added to food for rumenants (cows, horses, ect.) is
nitrogen.  It helps the bacteria that live in their stomachs (the bacteria are
what actually digests the food).  The nitrogen is often added in the form of
urea (yes this means that they spray the grain with urine).

So buy your grain at feed stores and don't worry, just ask.

Dave Barrett at wang.office.com

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Date: 20 May 91 16:48:00 EDT
From: "FEINSTEIN" <crf at pine.circa.ufl.edu>
Subject: Returning to the digest

Hi there!

I've been out of touch for quite a while, due to an extended illness, and have
just finished reading a s--tload of back homebrew digests.  So, please pardon
my commenting on a  "dated" thread. 

A number of people were asking about mead a while back; I wasn't able to retain
the various questions.  So:  my "quick 'n' dirty, 3-week mead" recipe is
available to those who would care to request it.  Any other questions may also
be addressed to me directly, rather than taking up bandwidth here.

Other than that, in dig 629 Douglas Allen Luce <dl2p+ at andrew.cmu.edu> said:

>Last September, I decided to try making a small batch of mead.  I used
>a recipe from the list calling for ginger, tea, and orange peel in
>addition to the honey.  I ended up with a one gallon batch (heated for
>45 minutes with scum-scraping, no boiling) dubbed "Feinstein
>Troublemead."

>It has had pretty much the same taste since the fermentation (with Red
>Star Champagne yeast) ended.  Very sweet, no real taste of alcohol,
>and a horrid composure of styrene!

>Yuk.  I've never heard about this taste before; what could be causing
>it?  The stuff came out of my stainless steel boiler into the glass
>fermenting vessel and glass conditioning jug, never making it's way
>through coffee cups or anything like that.  I've only racked it once
>after the primary fermentation, and there's a few wisps of yeast left
>at the bottom; could this have anything to do with the taste?  Is this
>something that might go away?  It seems as strong as ever.

First of all, sorry you had any trouble with this recipe.  But remember:  it
*is* meant to be a "quickie" recipe, with fermentation halted by artificial
means (addition of grain alcohol or vodka).

Second, it is *meant* to produce a sweet (as opposed to a dry) mead, and if I
remember correctly so states. 

As to the off-flavor you're experiencing:  presuming from the phrasing in your
posting that you allowed fermentation to proceed until it ceased by itself,
then you've probably got a mead that will need to age 2 years before it's
drinkable.  One to two years are very typical mead aging times.  Such is the
case, for example, with the pyment I did last summer. 

If that isn't the problem, then I would assume that the stainless steel pot is
the culprit.  I do *all* my brewing-type boiling *only* in enamel.  As Papazian
and others point out (if I remember correctly), metal can chemically interact
with a boiling wort, with undesirable results.

Again, sorry you had trouble.  Hope this helps.


                         *Really* glad to be back,

                                      Cher 


"I wish to the Lord someone would figure out a way of makin' baskets out of
that ol' Kudzu vine; hit's 'bout to cover up Asheville!" -- Anon. NC woman
=============================================================================

	Cheryl Feinstein              INTERNET:  CRF at PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
	Univ. of Fla.                 BITNET:  CRF at UFPINE
	Gainesville, FL


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Date: Mon, 20 May 91 22:20:28 GMT
From: aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg)
Subject: Re: Recipe book...

Gary wrote:

>I tried for the recipe book, but received only a "$" for my trouble.  I used
>the form :
>		SEND RECIPE-BOOK FROM HOMEBREW
>Any suggestions?

Hmmm. Let's see what the "index from homebrew" says..

recipe-book		- directory of The Homebrew Recipe Book

Well, it says directory. Okay, let's see if there is a 
"index from recipe-book"

- ----
The Homebrew Recipe Book, in 15 parts (listed below)

recipes_pt1.ps
recipes_pt2.ps
recipes_pt3.ps
recipes_pt4.ps
recipes_pt5.ps
recipes_pt6.ps
recipes_pt7.ps
recipes_pt8.ps
recipes_pt9.ps
recipes_pt10.ps
recipes_pt11.ps
recipes_pt12.ps
recipes_pt13.ps
recipes_pt14.ps
recipes_pt15.ps
- -----

By jove, there is. Perhaps

send recipes_pt1.ps from recipe-book

through

send recipes_pt15.ps from recipe-book

might work?

aem


- -- 
aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu .......................................................
A nation that continues year after year to spend more money 
on military defense than on programs of social uplift is 
approaching spiritual death.  		- Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Date: Mon, 20 May 91 18:22:42 EDT
From: boubez at bass.rutgers.edu
Subject: Recipe book


First of all, a big Thank You to mark Stevens and Karl Lutzen for their
efforts. Next, (after the buttering up (-: ), I'm having a small problem
with the ftp'd 15-part book. When I print out a section, only the last page
comes out. Has anybody had a similar problem. If so, how can it be cured?
Thanks again.

toufic

            R 2 4      Toufic Boubez
            |_|_|      boubez at caip.rutgers.edu
            | | |      Computational Engineering Systems Lab
            1 3 5      CAIP Center, Rutgers University


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Date: Mon, 20 May 91 22:36:23 EDT
From: Pete Soper <soper at encore.com>
Subject: sterile filtration, AHA Nats

  It is possible to sterilize air by filtration, just as beer is commonly
sterilized by filtration in many commercial breweries.
  I played with some Cole Parmer L-02915-34 50mm nylon filters ($27.50 for
ten, 800 323 4340, credit cards welcome). These have a 0.2 micron pore size
which will block darn near everything that is likely to cause infection. They
come in sterile packages, have hose barbs on both ends and pass air very freely
when driven with something like an aquarium pump.
  I was not interested in reducing lag time but instead wanted to "turbocharge"
yeast starters involving small dabs of yeast from slants. I hoped that by
forcing a prolonged aeration period I could keep the yeast in a respiration
phase longer and get more buildup of cells. After what looked like good 
results (which I ranted about privately), I set up an experiment, running
sterile air into starters with two original gravity values while also
running two starters without more than the usual "shake it up" aeration at the
start, with matching gravities. There was no significant difference in
apparent speed of onset of turbidity, sedimentation rate or amount, 
clarification speed, etc. In other words it was a great deal of trouble for
nothing.
  This was just one data point and probably says nothing about potential use for
shortening lag in a larger volume of wort; I just wasn't interested in this
application.
  ---
  I got my judging sheets back from the pale ale and dry stout I sent off to
Boston for the Nats. These were two just-OK beers and the judging forms went a 
long way toward showing me all that was wrong with them. I take issue with a 
few comments (of course) but overall think the judging was *VASTLY* improved 
over last year and for these two beers was a great help to me for understanding
some brewing mistakes. It was a real treat to open bottles of the beers in
question and sip them, reading the forms and saying to myself "Yes, yes!, yes,
maybe, yes, yes!", instead of "Say what? Which planet did these guys fly in 
from?" :-)

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #641, 05/21/91
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