---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Eastern Iowa (Mark Stroup)
  New Book... (Rob)
  beer in Eugene (Andy Kurtz)
  low alcohol beer ("Dennis R. Sherman")
  Recommendations for Maui and Southern CA ("Dennis Sutch")
  Re:  Fresh Beer (John DeCarlo)
  Re:  Miller, the author (John DeCarlo)
  Re:  Beer with Taste??? (John DeCarlo)
  Washington D.C. brewpubs (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Brewing in aluminum (John DeCarlo)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #650 (June 03, 1991) (Jean Hunter)
  sex and beer (Brian Bliss)
  Samuel Adams Beer taste-alike (Gene Schultz)
  CHEAP Homebrew Supply Places Sought (stuart mennitt)
  Soapy doesn't have to be bad. (R. Bradley)
  soap taste, and sex? (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  Chimay recipe request (stefan goellner)
  Original Gravity Calculation (John Polstra)
  RE: Keg registration (Attilio Lee Menegoni)
  Cream Soda ("Ihor W. Slabicky")


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon,  3 Jun 91 13:13:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Stroup <ms56+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Eastern Iowa

Will be moving to Eastern Iowa in August. Mount Vernon, to be specific,
which is not far from Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, Davenport and the other
Quad Cities. 

Would like to know of brewpubs, brewclubs and general BierZeitgeist of
the area. 

Will be happy to let people know of what I find out; and if it's
interesting, I'll compile and post. 

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Date:         Tue, 04 Jun 91 05:11:37 CST
From: Rob <C08926RC at WUVMD.Wustl.Edu>
Subject:      New Book...


For the history buffs:  a book has just been published about the Busch
family and the A-B brewery.  It's titled 'Under the Influence' and is
available now.  Word has it that the Busch family tried to keep this
from getting out...


I'm making a batch of cider tonite (my first attempt at fermenting
anything); I'll keep you informed...


Rob

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Date: Tue,  4 Jun 91 09:13:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andy Kurtz <ak35+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: beer in Eugene

i'm going to be in Eugene OR next week for a few days and would like to
know the state of beer there -- bars, micros, etc...
thanx.


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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 91 09:23 EDT
From: "Dennis R. Sherman" <DRS%UNCVX1.BITNET at ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu>
Subject: low alcohol beer

The July 1991 issue of Popular Mechanics has an article on how brewers are
taking the alcohol out of beer.  They say there are 4 ways to take the alcohol
out of beer: vacuum distillation, where the alcohol is boiled out of finished
beer, then things are added to the beer to replace the esters also boiled out;
reverse osmosis, where the beer is pushed against a semipermeable membrane
that only allows the alcohol molecules through;  brewing with a yeast that
only ferments part of the sugars available; and arresting fermentation.

Most brewers use vacuum distillation.  Reverse osmosis is expensive, and is
used by Anheuser-Busch to make O'Doul's.  Birell and Utica Club NA use the
"stupid yeast" (or maybe 'not hungry yeast') method.  The arrested
fermentation method is used by the three beers PM rated highest, Clausthaler,
Haake Beck, and Sharp's.

Interesting article - worth tracking down for a quick look.
===================================================================
Dennis R. Sherman
Triangle Research Libraries Network
University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill
drs at uncvx1.bitnet

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Date:     Tue, 04 Jun 91  09:53:12 EDT
From: "Dennis Sutch" <ECF at CU.NIH.GOV>
Subject:  Recommendations for Maui and Southern CA

I am looking for some suggestions of brewpubs and breweries
that might be worth visiting on my next trip.  I will be
in Hawaii (Maui, to be exact) for one week.  I will then
fly into San Diego and head whichever way the wind blows
me for the next two weeks.  Any suggestions would be
appreciated.

Thanks,
Dennis Sutch
ECF at NIHCU or ECF at CU.NIH.GOV or DSUTCH at RTI or DSUTCH at TITAN.RTI.ORG


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Date: Tuesday, 4 Jun 1991 10:40:45 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re:  Fresh Beer

>Date:   Wed, 8 May 1991 13:39:26 -0400
>From: hplabs!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick)

>Something I have been wondering about:  Several new small
>breweries around here date stamp their beer, and go to great
>lengths to explain that they do all sorts of things to make sure
>you get "Fresh beer"??  Why?  The last thing I want is fresh
>beer?  I go out of my way to hide freshly brewed beer where I
>won't be tempted to drink it until it has aged.

Well, this is an age-old controversy, which is why I refrained
from replying until I saw what happened.

Good breweries only bottle when the beer is ready to drink.  How
long it is aged beforehand depends on the type of beer, the
brewery, etc.  For instance, Anchor Brewery stores their ales
cold (45? 50? 55? I forget) for awhile before bottling.  IMHO,
good breweries don't use artificial preservatives (beyond the
yeast and hops).  Therefore, you want to get their beer as
quickly as you can because it should be near the height of flavor
when bottled.  [This does not apply to high-alcohol beers that
can age years.]  Remember, the longer it is in the bottle, the
more likely it will be mishandled by being stored in hot
conditions or somesuch.

So, what about the beer you make yourself?  After being on both
sides of the fence, I think that fresh is good, but not the
end-all and be-all of brewing.  I store my beer in the basement,
not exposed to light or heat, fairly cool (roughly 60F all year).
So I have had good beer over a year old.  Still, if I don't like
the taste at a week in the bottle, I figure there is something
about my brewing process that could be improved.

I have found that 1 week-old beer brewed with liquid yeast is
much, much better than the 1 week-old beer I made with dry
packets.  I now regularly drink the beer young and enjoy it and
remark on the changes that occur as it ages.  I like my beer both
fresh and aged, now that I think I am doing things more-or-less
right in the brewing process.

John "One brewer's opinion, anyway" DeCarlo

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

Return to table of contents


Date: Tuesday, 4 Jun 1991 10:41:29 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re:  Miller, the author

>From: card at apollo.hp.com

> I completely disagree with the recent assessments of Miller's
>book.  I think he's a fanatic.  If you're the type that likes
>spending more than 2-3x the time to complete a task (IE.  rinse
>your bottles 6 times), than necessary, by all means use this
>book as your bible.  But really, Papazian has it all over this
>guy!

OK, here is another data point.  Before having ever brewed (and,
unfortunately, not knowing other brewers in the area), I read
what I could find on the subject.  Someone I talked to
recommended avoiding older books on the subject, so I ended up
with Papazian and Miller.  I thought Papazian was interesting and
informative, but not really very helpful for a novice brewer who
wasn't really sure if he had all the equipment, etc.  Miller
tried to be very thorough, explain what equipment you needed and
what you probably already had in your kitchen you could use.  His
procedure was very detailed and easy to follow.  I knew if I
followed Miller I would not miss any steps, so I could relax.

In other words, it sort of depends on your personality and such,
but I think Miller is by far the best for someone who hasn't
brewed at all before.  Once you are comfortable with the process
and equipment, Papazian then is more fun and has more interesting
recipes.  Miller does become useful again when you want to get
beyond the basics of extract brewing.

John "Oops, please sprinkly IMHOs liberally above" DeCarlo

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Tuesday, 4 Jun 1991 10:42:09 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re:  Beer with Taste???

>From: David Taylor <DAVID at phillip.edu.au>

>Our commercial brewers seem to be able to handle cane sugar
>well, producing beer devoid of body and flavour yet with 5%
>alcohol.  When I try to make a similar strength brew without
>sugar the malt comes through strongly.  So...  why don't *you*
>use cane sugar?

I didn't notice a smiley-face here.  If I don't want any malt
taste, I drink root beer or lemonade.  Why drink beer if it
doesn't have any taste to it?  If you haven't had a wheat beer,
you might be surprised at how good it is without much malt
flavor.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date: Tuesday, 4 Jun 1991 10:42:57 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Washington D.C. brewpubs

>From: David Arnold <davida at syrinx.umd.edu>

>After seeing the posts for just about every city in the US, I
>haven't noticed one for the Washington D.C./Baltimore MD area.
>Do any brewpubs exist in this corridor?  While we're at it, how
>about Philadelphia, PA?

People have already mentioned the two brewpubs in Baltimore.
Here in the DC area, there is a lot of activity.  In Old Town
Alexandria, at the corner of King St. and Arthur St., a brewpub
called King Arthur's is due to open this fall.  I talked to the
guy running things and all the legal hassles seem to be taken
care of, so it will probably open as planned.  The current plan
is to invite the members of the brew club BURP to a pre-opening
event.  I will post a review if I make it, sometime this summer.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

Return to table of contents


Date: Tuesday, 4 Jun 1991 10:43:35 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Brewing in aluminum

>From: Jean hunter <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>

>At the risk of reigniting an old controversy, (why) is aluminum
>a bad material for a mash tun or wort kettle?  Color, flavor,
>aroma, my health, the yeast's health?  Is there a brief answer?

Here is my relatively unbiased analysis of the situation.

1) Flavor.  Some brewers can taste the aluminum-imparted flavor
in beer brewed in aluminum.  Some can't.  Highly acidic liquids
(wort is only mildly acidic) leach out aluminum (I know *I* can
taste a metallic taste if tomato sauce is cooked in aluminum)
from some types of pans.  So, this is a human variable, at least.

2) Health.  Current studies have established no link between
dietary aluminum and any diseases.  Also, other sources of
dietary aluminum (such as plants grown in soil) far outweigh any
possibility of aluminum from brewing.

3) Color?  Haven't heard of any relationship there.
4) Aroma?  Ditto.

John "Trying to be somewhat non-inflammatory" DeCarlo

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

Return to table of contents


Date:         Tue, 04 Jun 91 11:26:54 EDT
From: Jean Hunter <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Re: Homebrew Digest #650 (June 03, 1991)

Hi Al - Beer carbonation is generally expressed in volumes, that is how
many volumes of CO2 at standard temp and pressure per volume of beer.
Carbonation ranges from around 1 vol for "flat" British ales to nearly 3
volumes for a very lively beer like Anchor Steam.  Going for two volumes,
you"d need enough CO2 to make 4 liters at STP.  From the ideal gas law,
one mole of gas (44g of CO2) fills 24.4 liters at 1 atm. and 25 degrees c.
So you need (4 liters)*(44 g/mol)/(24.4 liters/mol) = 7.2 gm dry ice.
Let us know if it works - it is probably easier to deal with dry ice than
with a whole kegging/pressure regulating setup.  BTW, one caution, if you
don't know how many volumes of CO2 are in the beer already, go easy on the
dry ice.  Happy bubbling, Jean

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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 91 10:56:18 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: sex and beer


>>So sit back, pound down a few
>>coffin nails, and reflect on the fact that people have been dying since
>> the
>>invention of reproduction by methods other than fission.  Personally, I
>> prefer
>>sex and homebrews to living forever anyway.
>>
>>                               Yours in Suds
>>
>>                               Father Barleywine
>
>OK, but how about if I give up sex? Can I still drink beer, and live
>forever? I mean, what the hell, the beer is way more important than the sex
>already...

have you ever tried combining the two? I find that a little stout
greatly improves the flavor of bodily fluids.  (especially after
my girlfriend has been chain-smoking)

bb


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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 91 09:09:24 PDT
From: gschultz at cheetah.llnl.gov (Gene Schultz)
Subject: Samuel Adams Beer taste-alike

Several months ago I posted a request for a recipe for something that
tastes like Samuel Adams Beer.  Several of you replied, and I brewed a
four gallon batch based on the collective wisdom of these replies.  I
used a 3.3 lb. Cooper's Ale kit, steeped one pound of Crystal malt for
30 minutes in 2 qt. of water heated to 170 degrees F, added it to the
syrup from the kit and water, added 3/4 oz. of Saaz hops and boiled for
30 minutes, then removed the heat and added 3/4 oz. of Saaz hops for
finishing.  Although I am a fanatic for liquid yeast, I (grimaced and)
added the dry Coopers yeast supplied with the kit to the cooled wort in
the primary.  I transferred to secondary after two days.  All
fermentation was at approximately 60 degrees F.  I primed with 5/8 cup
of corn sugar.

I tasted the beer for the first time two days ago. It was wonderful--
very similar in taste, body, and color (where did the red come from?)
to Samuel Adams, but just a hint of the flavor of Anchor Steam Beer.
I'm going to try to brew the exact same thing again this weekend--the
first time in over 30 batches that I will ever have tried to brew an
exact replica of something I have brewed before.

Thanks to you homebrewing folks who supplied me with the good info.!

                                 ---Gene Schultz
                                    Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
                                    gschultz at cheetah.llnl.gov

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Date: 4 Jun 91 12:31 EDT
From: smennitt at oasys.dt.navy.mil (stuart mennitt)
Subject: CHEAP Homebrew Supply Places Sought

I am new to the HBD, so pardon this basic request.  Does anyone know
of inexpensive mailorder HB supply companies?  I have catalogs for Williams
Brewing and The Hobby Shop, and their prices are not much cheaper than
the local retailer.  Thanks in advance.  Any replies can be emailed
or submitted to the HBD.



]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[
]                     Stu Mennitt                     [
]     David Taylor Research Center, Bethesda, MD      [
]             smennitt at oasys.dt.navy.mil              [
]                    (301)227-3834                    [
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- -------

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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 91 12:12:55 CDT
From: bradley at dehn.math.nwu.edu (R. Bradley)
Subject: Soapy doesn't have to be bad.

In #651, Russell D. Shilling writes:

>  However, it tasted acrid and somewhat soapy.  Can someone tell me 
>  what the most likely culprit would be for such a flavor?

Acrid could be one of many things, those more knowledgable than I will
better be able to identify the source.  A good fresh Goldings hop
(particularly the British, as opposed to the British Columbian or 
Oergonian) sometimes has a soapy flavour.  I remember noticing it for
the first time in English real ale - a London brewer, a pale ale, but
darned if I can remember which! - and being a little taken aback.  I
came to appreciate it with time, but was never able to duplicate it
with the domestic Goldings I got in Toronto.


On a different note, I somehow suspect NOBODY RECEIVED #646!!!!!

Cheers,
Rob
(bradley at math.nwu.edu)

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Date:     Tue, 4 Jun 91 13:21:08 EDT
From: William Boyle (CCL-L) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  soap taste, and sex?

<I mean, what the hell, the beer is way more important than the sex already...

and I thought I was the only one.


<I will admit that the high quality of the wheat beers may have made a
<mediocre pale ale seem worse than it was.  However, it tasted acrid and
<somewhat soapy.  Can someone tell me what the most likely culprit would be
<for such a flavor?

I think the flavor comes from leaving the troob in the fermenter, the yeast
eat-up the troob instead of the sugars, at least that is what  I've been told

                                             B^2

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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 91 14:03:44 EDT
From: rastro!vlema!stef at uunet.UU.NET (stefan goellner)
Subject: Chimay recipe request

Having been to Brussels and having tasted Chimay I'd love to brew some of the
stuff. I brought along two bottles of Chimay from which to culture the yeast,
so now all I need is a recipe. Since I'm not in a position to do any mashing I
need an all extract recipe. Any tips are appreciated. Also please email, since
HBD delivery is EXTREMELY unreliable to my site :-(.

Stef          uunet!rastro!stef     or    rastro!stef at uunet.uu.net


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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 91 17:57:52 PDT
From: polstra!jdp at uunet.UU.NET (John Polstra)
Subject: Original Gravity Calculation

In HBD #649, darrylo at hpnmxx.sr.hp.com was asking about OG calculations:

> I'm also assuming that SG can be calculated by individually calculating
> the SG contributions of each malt, and then adding them up to get the
> real SG value ...

Yes, that's correct.

> ***** For the 3 lbs liquid ME:
> 
>         0.035(3)/5              = 0.021 <-- SG contribution of this liquid ME
>            ^  ^  ^
>            |  |  +-- 5 gallon batch
>            |  +----- 3 lbs of liquid ME
>            +-------- "normalized" SG of 1 lb of liquid ME in 1 gallon
>                      (SG is relative to 1.000, so I subtracted 1.000
>                      from the value, to make it relative to zero).

This is right, EXCEPT that you made one very common mistake.  You want
to divide by the volume of wort at the end of the boil, and that's not
5 gallons.  You may end up with 5 gallons of beer, but chances are
you're starting with more like 5.5 - 5.75 gallons of wort at the end of
the boil.  You lose some of that during the remaining steps (e.g., some
gets soaked up and thrown away with the spent hops, some gets left
behind during siphoning, some goes out the blowoff hose if you use that
method, etc.).  This may seem like a fine point, but it makes a
surprisingly large difference in the OG that you calculate.

It just so happens that I wrote an article about this topic for the
most recent issue of my brewing club's newsletter.  It describes
techniques I've been using which allow me to decide what I want my OG
to be, formulate a recipe, brew it, and reliably hit the target OG
almost exactly.  The article is aimed at grain brewers, but the methods
would also work for extract brewing.  If anybody would like a copy, I'd
be happy to send one.  Just send a SASE to me at this address:

	John Polstra
	9346 California Dr. SW
	Seattle, WA 98136

(I won't send out the article by Email, so don't bother asking.)

   John Polstra               polstra!jdp at uunet.uu.net
   Polstra & Co., Inc.           ...!uunet!polstra!jdp
   Seattle, Washington USA              (206) 932-6482
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."  -- John Barth

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Date:         04 Jun 91 14:19:41 EST
From: Attilio Lee Menegoni <ATTILIO.MENEGONI at OFFICE.WANG.COM>
Subject:      RE: Keg registration


RE: Keg registration / license Amherst Mass:

A couple of comments on keg registration in Amherst Mass.  The problem isn't
that the law was passed after the students left, it was that most were not
registered voters and could not vote on the issue.  Your friend may indeed be a
pinhead but he did register and did vote.  Sitting on your ass relaxing with
a homebrew will only produce sewage.  Quibbling over the definition of beer
isn't a solution either.  If people are concerned about Neo Prohibitionism then
they need to have their votes and voices heard.  The sad thing about this type
of law is the drinking problem it tries to address will not go away, people
will make "party punch" in plastic buckets or buy Matt's Beer Balls (if they
hold less than 5 gallons), and the law will still be on the books.


                                   Live Free or Die
                            Attilio Menegoni   Hudson NH
                            University of Mass / Amherst alumnus
                            former resident / voter Amherst Mass

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Date: Mon, 3 Jun 91 12:10:40 -0400
From: "Ihor W. Slabicky" <iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com>
Subject: Cream Soda

	
	Date: Sat, 18 May 91 09:51:52 -0500
	From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu
	Subject: Cream soda, siphoning woes. 
	
	My biggest concern with many authentic root beer recipes is that they
	call for many bizarre and hard to find ingredients.  Of course, one
	can always get the extract, but that just doesn't sound like as much
	fun to me.  Besides, I'm not that big of a root beer fan anyway.

	What I would love to try is a cream soda recipe!  Does anyone have an
	actual recipe for cream soda?  I'd prefer one that starts "from scratch"
	rather than from an extract.

If anyone does have a cream soda recipe from scratch, please post it 
or email it to me as well...

As an aside, there are two types of 'cream soda' sold in North America.
In the good ole' USA, we have 'Cream' or 'Creme' or 'Vanilla Cream' or
something along those lines.  What you get is a soda that is slightly
golden colored and has the taste of vanilla - as in vanilla beans,
or extract or ice cream.  

Canada (at least Montreal and the southern part of Quebec province) has
a soda called 'Cream Soda' or in French 'Soda Mousse'.  This is a clear
soda which tastes remarkably like cream (as in dairy cream) and has a
long lasting head (for soda that is).  The Canadian cream soda uses as
an ingredient either saponin or quialla (sorry about the spellings) which
is an extract from plants that is used to make soap - I guess just a bit
in the soda makes for the wonderful head you get.

I have also seen in Montreal a 'cream nectar' type of soda, made by
Canada Dry in Canada, which is similar in taste to the 'cream soda'
we get in the US, but which also had the frothy head of the other
Canadian 'cream soda'. 

I would be interested in seeing if anyone does have a recipe for
'cream soda' and which one - US or Canadian?

For the US version, I'd think that a vanilla extract/sugar syrup
mixture to suit your taste would be a good starting point, then
make as any other soda. 

Ihor

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #652, 06/05/91
*************************************
-------

---