---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Manchester; All-grain vs. Extract (BAUGHMANKR)
  Aass Jubilee (TSAMSEL)
  Starting a micro-micro-brewery. (IOCONNOR)
  Processing Homegrown Hops (John Mireley|xxxxxx)
  beer bellies & exercise (pmh)
  CatUs Meow (Charles Anderson)
  Cloudy mash -and- Who is Miller? (Desmond Mottram)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #660 (June 17, 1991) ("David E. Husk")
  re: beer and health (Brian Bliss)
  Re:  Miller Genuine Draft (lg562)
  Sucrose to Invert? (Brian D. Moore)
  Bellies and Beer (Tom Dimock)
  Cholesterol, Strawberries, Brew Bags (hersh)
  AHA Conference (Marty Rowe)
  CABA Promo. (MIKE LIGAS)
  Weizen Beer (Doug Dreger)
  The ol' cleanliness demon... (Ron Rader)
  Personal Address Correction (MIKE LIGAS)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1991 12:27 EST
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: Manchester; All-grain vs. Extract

For those of you planning to go to Manchester, why don't we all try to get
together at some point during the conference and drink a few beers face to
face without these  computer terminals in the way?!  You can all find me at
the equipment expo.  Dave Wills of Freshops and I will have a table dis-
playing our product lines.  I'll be the tall, skinny, 6'8" guy with curly
hair.  All Longnecks, Stubbies, and everyone in between are encouraged to
stop by and say hello.

My two cents on the extract vs. grain discussion:

I started out in extracts.  Then became a strictly all-grain brewer for
years.  Now I "go both ways".  For lagers and light ales, I prefer all-grain
because the flavors are more subtle and are easier to control if I mash.
But for heavy porters, stouts, and barley wines,  I now just use a light
malt extract for the fermentables and steep crystal, chocolate, dextrin malts
or roasted barley for flavor, depending on the recipe.  I've found that
the darker malts over-power any residual extract tang that might be present
in the kit and gives me a full-bodied, robust beer in less time than it
takes to mash.

See ya'll at the conference.

Kinney Baughman                 :       Beer is my business and
baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu  :       I'm late for work.

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Date:    Mon, 17 Jun 1991 7:18:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV
Subject: Aass Jubilee

  Saturday at our brewclub meeting some one brought some of the Aass Jubilee.
It is great. No one had ever had any beer quite like this.
  (If they made a breakfast cereal that tasted like that, even my kids would
eat it). Any ideas on the recipe that give it that granola-ish flavor?
  Ted

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Date:    Mon, 17 Jun 1991 8:15:36 EDT
From: IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU
Subject: Starting a micro-micro-brewery.

Right now I dont have the talent, the time or the money, but a friend 
and I want to start a micri-micro-brewery.  By that I mean a smaill 
operation, basically for one place and for some bars.  I want to 
gather information now--so we'll be ready when we want to start.  

What I'd like:

1)  What are the legal requirements Federal wise and state wise (New 
York)

2)  How about health department wise?

3)  Where do people get supplies for a micro-micro?  For example, 
bottles, *large* brewpots, fermenters and the like?

I'd love to hear from people who have started a micro--do's donts and 
other helpful advice.   Thank you in advance.

Kieran O'Connor

IOCONNOR at SUNRISE (bitnet)
IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU (internet)

PS  Syracuse had an earthquake this morning!  3.9 on the richter.  I 
slept through it but my wife says she felt it--she thought our 
waterbed would break and kill the people below us.

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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 08:39:02 EDT
From: John Mireley|xxxxxx <mireley at horus.cem.msu.edu>
Subject: Processing Homegrown Hops



I just learned that a friend of mine has hops growing in his garden.
They were obtained from Oregon or Washington by a friend of his that
did not have a place to plant them. They have been unattended for a couple
of years.

Is there a good source of information on taking care of and processing
hop plants?

Is it worth the effort?

How do I go about determining what type they are?

John Mireley



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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 09:12:42 EDT
From: pmh at media-lab.media.mit.edu
Subject: beer bellies & exercise

It seems obvious to me that the size of one's beer belly is
inversley related to the amout of excercise undertaken. When I was a
student at Oxford I drank upwards of 8 pints of real ale a night but
because I was rowing 2-3 hours a day I never got much of a belly.
Nowadays, I don't drink nearly as much as I used to (and the beer's not as
good or as fattening), but because I don't exercise as much, I'm
starting to look like I'm expecting. Time to get back in a boat or
something cause I'm not stopping the beer intake!
			------------------------------------
Paul Hubel		     USQUE AD MORTEM BIBENDUM
			------------------------------------
			     You better start drinking
				or I'm gonna leave.  -J.Walsh
			------------------------------------

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Date: 	Fri, 14 Jun 1991 17:07:51 -0500
From: caa at com2serv.c2s.mn.org (Charles Anderson)
Subject: CatUs Meow

I'm sort of a novice homebrewer, I've made a few batches that have turned
out pretty good, and I've made some mead that preliminary indications show
should taste pretty damn good even if the bottles didn't seal tight enough
for it to come out sparkling like it should be (it's mildly fizzy).

But now I'd like to try some partial mashes and do some full grain mashes.
I was wondering about grain mills I've tried the bowling pin craking
method for some speciality grains that I've added to some of my extract
brews along with using a mortar & pestle but the latter creates too much
dust, the former is a pain in the a**.  I've got a catalog from Great
fermentations that has a grain mill listed at 49.95 but it doesn't say
what type of mill this is...does anyone know?  Is it a Corona Grain mill,
if not is it better than the Corona.

Also on the lookout for Cheap extract & grains, I recently got a catalog
(of sorts) from Green Acres it has 58lp pails of Briess extracts listed
at $82.80 this comes out to $1.42 per pound add shipping and it'l be
around $1.60 this extract comes in (what they call) brewers gold,
sparkling amber, traditional dark, and Bavarian wheat.
They also seem to have pretty good prices on grains at about $1 a pound
for the 20lb range and $.80 for the 50lb range (actual range is from $.62
to $.86 per pound)



> BTW, when I printed the PostScript directly from my Unix
> machine to the Apple LaserWriter, it came out 'Catus Meow'.  When
> I transferred to the Mac and printed it out, it came out
> properly.  Anyone else notice this?" 

I did notice this it actually came out CatUs Meow, you will also not that
just about everyplace in the text that there is supposed to be a ' you
get a U.  This is because the Mac has outputted (is that a real word?)
the code it wants to print the value of the ' (it's actually an accent
grave symbol not a right quote) which has a value of 213 which gets the
high bit stripped off of it and comes out as 85 which is a capital U.
This happens with the copyright symbol too.  I posted a short perl script
right after the recipe book was made available that converts the charaters
with thier high bits set into quoted octal \325 for the above character.
Here it is again....if you don't have perl you should get it but if you
can't a short C program to do the same thing should be relatively easy to
do.             (this should all be on one line)
perl -e 'while(<>){s/[\200-\377]/sprintf("\\%3o",ord($&))/ge;print;}'
		recipe-file | lpr

Sorry for rambling so.
/-Charles-Anderson-\   |       caa at c2s.mn.org || caa at midgard.mn.org 
\------------------/   | Com Squared Systems,          voice (612) 452-9522
The rose goes in front | 1285 Corporate Center Drive    fax  (612) 452-3607
big guy -Crash Davis   | Suite 170 | Eagan,  MN 55121  (I speak for myself)

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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 14:53:13 BST
From: Desmond Mottram <swindon!des at uunet.UU.NET>
Subject: Cloudy mash -and- Who is Miller?


> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 91 10:51:09 EDT
> From: olson at antares.cs.Virginia.EDU
> Subject: sparging -- cloudy runnings
>  
...
> 
> Then comes the part that gives me trouble -- the sparge.
> Miller says to recirculate the first runnings once, then sparge and "let
> the clear wort fall into your boiler".  Other things I've read call for
> you to recirculate until the wort clears.  Unfortunately, my worts
> never run clear.  Last night I recirculated for a full hour, with 
> 
...
> - --Tom Olson
> 
> Thomas J. Olson           | olson at virginia.edu   | Ave color vini clari
> Dept. of Computer Science | work: (804) 982-2217 | Ave sapor sine pari
> University of Virginia    | home: (804) 971-7176 | Tua nos inebriari
> Charlottesville, VA 22903 |                      | Digneris potentia!
> 

I don't think a cloudy sparge is too serious. I've also tried 
re-circulating this through the grains, and also experienced little 
improvement. But the resulting beers have cleared perfectly well, and 
tasted fine.

Dave Line in his Big Book of Brewing says never on any account tip the tun 
at the end of sparging to extract the last part of the mash below the tap, 
as it is full of gunk and will spoil the beer. I just couldn't bring myself 
to junk 1/2 gall of potential beer, so I tipped the tun, Sure enough it was 
full of gunk. I strained it and re-circulated it. It still came out cloudy,
so I fermented it anyway. There was nothing wrong with the beer at all! It 
cleared bright quickly and tasted fine. Can someone say whether this really 
is inadvisable in their experience, not opinion.

I suspect the cause of the cloudiness is powder in the malt. I've had two 
consecutive batches from the same supplier, one full of powder and one 
without but with too many whole grains. I don't think the cracking/crushing 
is as consistent as it should be. I also got widely varying amounts of sugar 
from these two batches. Far less came out of the batch with too many whole 
grains, barely 60% extraction. So I'd rather have a bit more powder and 
more sugar for my money, than a wort that is clear because there is nothing
in it.

Lastly - this may be sacrelige - but who is Miller? I'm from the UK and 
have never heard of him. Our brewing gurus are Dave Line and (recently) 
Graham Wheeler of CAMRA. Can someone please mail me the title of his 
book(s) with publisher, date and ISBN if possible.

Thanks,

Desmond Mottram,
des at swindon.ingr.com
..uunet!ingr!swindon!d_mottram

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Date:     Mon Jun 17 09:48:00 1991
From: "David E. Husk" <deh7g at newton.acc.virginia.edu>
Subject:  Re:  Homebrew Digest #660 (June 17, 1991)


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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 10:45:29 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: re: beer and health


cjh at vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock) writes:

> It's arguable that the key to health ... is moderation.

assume that you are moderate in everything.
you now have excessive moderation, a contradiction.

excessiveness is clearly the way to go...

bb


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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 08:23:11 PDT
From: lg562 at koshland.pnl.gov
Subject: Re:  Miller Genuine Draft

   Date: Fri, 14 Jun 91 10:35:14 -0500
   >From: dbreiden at mentor.cc.purdue.edu

   Last night I wanted something light and thin, so I bummed a Miller GD from
   my roommate.  It's a pretty good beer for when you want an American style
   beer.  Anyhow, I was looking at the label and recalling the stuff I've
   heard about Miller brewing and the treatment of hops.  On the label, the
   words "No additives or preservatives" are boldy displayed.  And of course,
   the ingredients are not listed, they simply say "Contains malt, hops, yeast,
   and water.  Selective listing indeed.  So I was thinking, "If they treat the
   hops, wouldn't that result in an additive?"  

That's interesting, because I was "forced" to drink one the other day
on a Delta flight (they don't carry any imported beers!).  So my
parched mouth succumbed to the temptation.  One thing I noticed was
the head of this beer.  They must be adding some sort of heading agent
as the head was much more creamy and long lasting than those I'm used
to.  In fact I thought "Gee this stuff is lingering too long."  The
foam that did stick to the sides of the cup never did subside, even
after the beer was long gone.  After that experience I can't imagine
there is _only_ malt, hops, yeast, and water in the beer.

Michael Bass
Molecular Science Research Center, K2-18
Battelle - Pacific Northwest Laboratory
Richland, Washington  99352
lg562 at pnl.gov


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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 11:14:06 CDT
From: Brian D. Moore <bemo at spacsun.rice.edu>
Subject: Sucrose to Invert?


     Reading yet another book on winemaking, I have come across a procedure
to, supposedly, convert sucrose to invert sugar.  I figure posting here would
be the quickest way to test/deflate the procedure.
     "The Winemaker's Companion" by Turner and Berry suggests that it is
possible to accomplish the conversion by boiling the sugar with 1 tsp. citric
acid, which I suppose is to perform the same conversion as the yeast's 
'invertase' enzyme.  Does this, in fact, work?  It is not mentioned in Berry's
more famous work, and the books appear to be equally old.  Should this practice
be restricted to winemaking, or does the presence of citric acid not affect
beerbrewing unduly?

Brian Moore
CEO Barsoom Brewery

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Date:         Mon, 17 Jun 91 13:10:05 EDT
From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Bellies and Beer

If my personal experience is any indication, you can drink more beer at
the same time you are reducing both your cholesterol and your "beer belly".
A year ago I had a cholesterol count of 220 (not really bad, but needs
attention according to my doctor).  I have seriously reduced my fat intake,
but because I work eight minutes walk from the Chapter House (owned by
James and Laurie Clement, who brew four-star beers in their brewery at
Vernon Valley, N.J.) I have been drinking more and better beer.  This year
I am 10 lbs lighter (all off my belly) and my cholesterol is down to 134.
So cut out the junk food (and ice cream and chocolate, sigh...), stop
worrying, and have a homebrew!!

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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 13:44:38 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Cholesterol, Strawberries, Brew Bags


I am in a similar situation to Ken W., in that I partake of beers on a regular
basis (say a pint a night with dinner most nights, more on the weekends), and
have an excellent cholesterol level (good ratio, high good, low bad).
As for mental acuity, what's that?? :-)

On strawberries, I made a strawberry/blueberry mead a while back that I think
is just now coming into drinking age. The strawberries can be smelled and also
impart a present but not overwhelming flavor. I'll have to double check the
recipe, but I recall being surprised that I could taste the strawberries as
much as I did, since I did not add an overwhelming amount, however the taste is
not that strong overall.

Everything I've heard about these Brew Bags is that they are a gimmick. An
awful contraption that leads people to believe that they can make beer at home
as if it were cake mix, and produces beer that most homebrewers would do a spit
take with. All indications are that this is a disservice to homebrewing in that
more often than not the quality of the product is so poor as to dissuade people
from believing that they can make good beer themselves. CAVEAT: I have never
tried these myself, only read a number of reviews by others, so perhaps I'm
totally wrong (it happened once before, but fortunately there were no witnesses
:-)), but I'm not about to go toss $30 to try it, after all I have lots of
homebrewing equipment so I don't need no steenkin bags...

JaH


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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 16:27:05 -0500
From: mar at dvinci.mitre.org (Marty Rowe)
Subject: AHA Conference

Russ writes:

>>  Re. Manchester stuff:  Well, there isn't really alot.  There's the
>>Boston Trading Co. bar near the convention center.  There's an Irish
>>Pub (can't remember the name) that has good tap brews (Guiness, Double
>>Diamond, Harp,...). Go about 20 blocks north on Elm st. from the conference 
>>center, turn right on Bridge St. (after big Numerica bldg.), then turn
>>right after 1 (2?) blocks on Kosciouscko (sp?) street.  Nearby also is the
>>Salty Dog Tavern.  I haven't been in there in a long time.  It was your
>>average Budswiller joint; it may be better now, probably not.  In the
>>same area is the High 5 restaraunt/hotel.  It has a bar at the top, really
>>nice view of the city.  Recommended for the view.

The name of the Irish Pub is The Wild Rover (or is that the Red Rover?).
It is on some Greek sounding name that starts with the letter K.  Sorry
for the vagueness, Manchester is still a foreign town to me.  Never
been there, but my wife has and she says it is a great place to meet and 
drink good beer.  The description for the Salty Dog is pretty accurate.  
It is basically a college hangout place.

Portsmouth has a new brewpub called the "Portsmouth Brewery."  Portsmouth
is a seacoast town which is 45 to 60 minutes from Manchester.  They had a
wheat beer, pale ale, and a brown ale on tap.  The wheat and pale ale had
a good flavor, though a little cloudy.  The brown ale was lacking in taste,
I thought.  I definitely recommend it, besides Portsmouth is a lot more
interesting than Manchester.  There are other decent bars and pubs in
Portsmouth but I don't remember the names.  If you want more information just
e-mail me and I'll ask my wife (she is the native).  I'll post a summary
if there is enough interest.  Hurry cuz time is running out.

Martin A. Rowe
mar at dvinci.mitre.org
MITRE Corp.
Bedford, MA 01730

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Date: 	Mon, 17 Jun 1991 15:16:00 -0400
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: CABA Promo.


Due to the encouraging response to my recent posting about the Canadian
Amateur Brewers Association (CABA) in which I asked interested brewers to
E-mail me directly for information, I have decided to post this letter
about the CABA directly to HD. A common question I have been getting is
"Can Americans join up?". The answer is a definitive YES. The CABA is much
like the AHA in its scope of interest and activities, as the following
letter describes.

******************************************************************************

                              WHAT IS CABA?

The Canadian Amateur Brewers Association (CABA) is a non-profit organization
whose purpose is to promote homebrewing as an enjoyable hobby through
educational publications, events, and other activities.


                           HOW CAN CABA HELP ME?

The Canadian Amateur Brewers Association is dedicated to improving the skills
and knowledge of its members. Members are invited to participate in the special
events organized including the annual conference, frequent competitions and
special seminars.


             HOW LONG HAS CABA BEEN AROUND AND WHAT HAS IT DONE?

CABA was started in 1984 as a forum for homebrewers, both novice and
experienced, to exchange ideas, skills and their love of homebrewing. Since
then annual conferences, competitions and tastings have been organized.

CABA produces a newsletter every two months to keep its members informed of
recent events, club news, and a members forum which allows members to voice
concerns, ask questions and to get answers.

CABA has also had mail in competitions, and is at present planning judging
training seminars to be part of an ongoing educational program.

In October of 1990, the first Board of Directors was elected from the
membership. The Board is currently registering the organization as a non-profit
group.

For less than the savings from a single batch of homebrew, you can enroll in
the only national club in Canada which will help you brew better beer.


                        THE BENEFITS OF JOINING CABA

Newsletter every two months                   Annual Conference
Annual Spring Competition                     Fall Mail-in Competition
Judge training/Tasting seminar                Discounts at retailers
Members Forum

A greater variety of regional activities across Canada will be planned as
CABA's membership increases.


                            HOW DO I SUBSCRIBE?

To become a member of the CABA mail a cheque/money order for $15 made out to
CABA, to the following address:

                                CABA
                                19 Cheshire Dr.
                                Islington, Ontario
                                M9B 2N7

Please include the following information on a separate sheet of paper:

                                NAME
                                ADDRESS
                                POSTAL CODE
                                HOME PHONE (include area code)

It would also be appreciated if you could provide the following information:

        I started brewing in 19__.

        I brew with: [please check appropriate line(s)]
                   : extract only ___.
                   : extract and grains ___.
                   : grain ___.

        My interests are in the following areas:
                   : Attending conferences ___.
                   : Competitions ___.
                   : Educational exchange ___.
                   : Winning recipes ___.
                   : Tasting/Judging ___.

********************************************************************************

Happy Brewing,
Mike Ligas
ligas at sscvax.cis.mcmaster.ca

P.O. Box 668
Waterdown, Ontario
L8M 3B5


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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 14:06:43 PDT
From: Doug Dreger <dreger at seismo.gps.caltech.edu>
Subject: Weizen Beer


I was wondering I anyone has been successful in making a weisen with
a medium to strong clove taste?  The local brewpub offers a wheat beer
that doesn't even have a hint of cloves and several homebrewing friends
make very good wheat beers that have negligable clove taste.  My HBing
friends use the wyeast wheat beer yeast.  I don't know what the brewpub uses.

Anyway I want to make a weisen with a strong clove taste.  I propose to
mash 6 lbs of wheat malt with 4 lbs of klagges, add about 1.5 oz's of
medium alpha hops and the wyeast wheat beer yeast.  My question what else
can I do to help develop the clove taste.  Does fermentation temperature
play a role?  I am planning on fermenting in my refridge at about 55 to 60
degrees.

Thanks
Doug

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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 91 13:22:00 EDT
From: rlr at bbt.com (Ron Rader)
Subject: The ol' cleanliness demon...

> From: "Ihor W. Slabicky" <iws at sgfb.ssd.ray.com>
> Subject: Xingu Beer
> 
> The Indian tribes along the Xingu river and it's
> tributaries (Amazon area) still brew these beers. Their
> process is basically malted grains, lupine herbs, and airborne
> yeasts - with the women chewing the grain and spitting the mash
> into pots, the resulting 'mash' being cooked over open fires
> and giving the beer it's 'blackness' from the smoke - and lagered
> in underground clay pots.

  Hah, hah, hah!  Betcha those clay pots never saw a drop of Clorox solution.
Let alone the, ah, interesting character that pre-chewed mash lends to the
final brew.  Father Barleywine, what do you think of that?  I can see the
recipe in 'The Cat's Meow, 2nd edition':

  XINGU THUNDERF**K

  5 pounds Amazon maize
  5 pounds winter wheat
  Lots of lupine herbs

  Chew grains thoroughly.  Get your family and friends to help.  Spit into
malting vessel, and cook over an open fire, making sure you expose the mash
to the smoke....

  Leave wort outside for 3 days, after which time you may then bury your
fermentation vessels until final gravity reaches 1.005.  Don't worry about
the scum at the top of the vessels, draw beer from the bottom and enjoy!

  Actually, I wonder what this stuff tastes like?  I'd love to see M. Jackson
cruise around native lands, sampling folk brews.

- -- 
ron rader, jr  rlr at bbt.com OR ...!mcnc!bbt!rlr = Opinions are my own and do
| |  i gotta six-pack & nothing to do...       = not necessarily reflect those
 | | i gotta six-pack & i don't need you       = of BroadBand Tech. (SO THERE!)
  *** Punk ain't no religious cult, punk means thinking for yourself - DKs ***

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Date: 	Mon, 17 Jun 1991 18:48:00 -0400
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Personal Address Correction


At the end of my recent posting (CABA Promo.) I provided an incorrect personal
address. My proper slow mail address is:

                        Mike Ligas
                        P.O. Box 668
                        Waterdown, Ontario
                        Canada
                        L0R 2H0

Sorry for the error.
Mike

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #661, 06/18/91
*************************************
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