---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Cholesterol...and who does what (Ifor Wyn Williams)
  Burton salts (Ifor Wyn Williams)
  MISSING #665. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Re: RE: Half-filled Bottles (Michael Mays)
  Re: Rust in stainless kettles (HBD  665) (ferguson ct 71078)
  AB Liquid Bread? (ferguson ct 71078)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #666 (June 25, 1991)  (hersh)
  Heat Receptive Coatings ?? (Ron Rushing)
  subscribe (John J. Kim)
  Miller's Cold Filtering (GERMANI)
  Consistency (MC2331S)
  pre-pitching oxidation (oxygenation?) (mcnally)
  exploding bottles (kevin vang)
  beginner's & cat's meow questions (Greg Pryzby)
  half-filled bottles  (Carl West x4449)
  Cold filtered (adams)
  Half bottle carbonation (Bill Crick)
  Re: consistency (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Cold Filtering, and the Conference (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Ullage (Martin A. Lodahl)
  BEER (EDPY030)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
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[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 10:54:29 BST
From: Ifor Wyn Williams <ifor at computer-science.manchester.ac.uk>
Subject: Cholesterol...and who does what


> From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner)
> Subject: Cholesterol...and who does what
> ......
> Another important factor affecting your cholesterol level is
> genetics.  

This doesn't have a lot to do with beer, but I thought it may make
some drinkers happier!....

A popular science TV programme here in the UK made several very
interesting points/claims about Cholesterol..

1. It is extremely difficult to reduce your Cholesterol level. In one
survey, a large number of people who were regularly counseled by a
dietician only managed to reduce their Cholesterol levels by an
average of 5%.

2. Drugs to reduce Cholesterol levels do not have an overall effect on
the mortality of their users. Their side effects cause an increase in
suicides and an increased susceptibility to fatal accidents!

3. There is no evidence demonstrating that someone who manages to
reduce their cholesterol level by dieting is less likely to suffer
heart disease or live longer.

Basically, they claimed that controlling your diet to reduce
Cholesterol in order to avoid heart disease was only sensible for a
small number of genetically susceptible people.  Different people are
susceptible to different causes of heart disease.

I find that being anxious about diet does me no good at all :-) ---
just drink away and enjoy!

Ifor.


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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 09:46:58 BST
From: Ifor Wyn Williams <ifor at computer-science.manchester.ac.uk>
Subject: Burton salts

> From: Rob Malouf <RMALOUF at MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU>
> Subject: Burton salts
> 
> I am planning on brewing a pale ale this weekend, and I was
> wondering if anyone  knows exactly what is in "Burton salts".

I don't know for sure what's in "Burton Salts", but my supplier
believes it's nothing more than the appropriate mix of Calcium and
Magnesium sulphate.  According to "Home Brewing" by Graham Wheeler,
water quality similar to Burton-on-Trent may be achieved by adding
1000mg/l Calcium Sulphate (Gypsum), 150mg/l Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom
salts) and 60mg/l Sodium Chloride (common salt) to soft water.

Ifor

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Date: 25 Jun 91 08:07:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: MISSING #665.

HI ALL.  SOME GATEWAY SOMEWHERE SEEMS TO BE STUCK AGAIN AND I MISSED ISSUE 
665.  THE MIAMI ARCHIVES SEEM TO HAVE MISSED IT TOO.  COULD SOME KIND SOUL 
PLEASE SEND #665 TO ME?  THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

DAN GRAHAM


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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 08:23 EDT
From: Michael Mays <MAYS at jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu>
Subject: Re: RE: Half-filled Bottles

Hi There,

Since I am claiming to me a chemist I thought I should correct the last 
paragraph my of my posting in HBD666.  For the aerobic 'metabolization' 
described, the pressure increase would be zero since each CO2 molecule 
produced  replaces a O2 molecule consumed.

On the subject of Canadian beer.  When I was in Magog, Quebec for a few 
weeks a few years ago, I asked a few Canadians why their beer tasted 
different/better.  No one was an authority but the most popular opinions 
were:  People in the United States would not drink a 'real' beer with 
flavor and The beer brewed for us Southerners had to be brewed to 
different standards to satisfy some governmental (US) body.  

Bye,
Michael Mays
Johns Hopkins Chemistry

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 09:44:27 EDT
From: ferguson at x102c.ess.harris.com (ferguson ct 71078)
Subject: Re: Rust in stainless kettles (HBD  665)


Jean Hunter <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu> writes:

> I don't know what grade of stainless is used for kegs (can
> anyone tell me?  would it be #304?) but I've seen rust on #316 stainless,
> the most corrosion-resistant, at mechanical stress points on a stirrer used
> in saturated KCl solution.

As a general rule, you don't want to soak stainless steel in chlorine
bleach.  Stainless steel is subject to a phenomenon known as "stress
corrosion cracking" wherein stainless steel under stress in a chlorine
environment will develop tiny cracks along the metal grain boundaries
in the high-stress zones.  

Unfortunately, I have had practical experience with this phenomenon.
Some time ago I had a favorite stainless steel thermos bottle that I
hauled to work every day loaded with coffee.  After many years of use
the interior had acquired a coffee lacquer coating that was pretty
unsanitary looking.  Being a homebrewer, I figured nothing would be
better at sanitizing my scummy thermos bottle than bleach.  So I
decided to soak the thermos overnight in bleach.  I figured that
stress corrosion cracks require high chlorine concentrations and would
take months to develop.  Since I was using common household bleach
(full strength) and only soaking overnight I should be safe.  Boy was
I wrong.  The next day my favorite (actually my only) thermos bottle
had no vacuum and was ruined.  Lesson learned.  Nowadays, I use bleach
to sanitize my stainless brewpot and *RINSE THOROUGHLY* before
storing.  

You have rust stains?  Try some fine grade ("00" or "000") steel wool.

Chuck Ferguson             Harris Government Information Systems Division
(407) 984-6010             MS: W2/7742  PO Box 98000  Melbourne, FL 32902
Internet:                  ferguson at x102c.ess.harris.com
Usenet:                    uunet!x102a!x102c!ferguson

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 09:50:32 EDT
From: ferguson at x102c.ess.harris.com (ferguson ct 71078)
Subject: AB Liquid Bread?

I recently went to Busch Gardens in Tampa Bay, FL and toured the
Budweiser brewery there.  At the end of the tour was a small museum
containing mostly marketing memorabilia from AB's past.  One flyer
from about 1920 had a small illustration of each of AB's products.
One product intrigued me --- it was called "Liquid Bread."  Does
anyone have any idea what this could have been?

Chuck Ferguson             Harris Government Information Systems Division
(407) 984-6010             MS: W1/7742  PO Box 98000  Melbourne, FL 32902
Internet:                  ferguson at x102c.ess.harris.com
Usenet:                    uunet!x102a!x102c!ferguson

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 10:51:54 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #666 (June 25, 1991) 


Oh my god, not HBD #666, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Sorry folks, couldn't resist

	JaH


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Date:     25 JUN 91 10:00:46 CDT
From: Ron Rushing <RRUSHING%SFAUSTIN.bitnet at RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
Subject:  Heat Receptive Coatings ??

Greetings From Nacogdoches--
Am looking for a source for some form of paint or coating to apply
to my SS barrels/kegs that will provide better heat transfer.
I have heard of such coatings, and seen photos of containers with a
gray coating on their bottom surfaces.
Please reply directly to me if you have an answer or suggestions.  I'll fwd
any responces back to the list.
Thanks--
RON
rrushing at sfaustin.bitnet
F_RUSHINGRG at ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Compu$erve: U0710
- ---

RON RUSHING--Supervisor, Education Media Center S.F.A. University
 Nacogdoches, TX  75962 <RRUSHING at SFAUSTIN.BITNET>

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 11:17:54 EDT
From: johnjkim at psyche.mit.edu (John J. Kim)
Subject: subscribe


I would like to subscribe to the homebrewing mailing list.


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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1991 11:37 EST
From: GERMANI%NSLVAX at Venus.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Miller's Cold Filtering

Greetings,

	Today Kieran (IOCONNOR) asks "what the * at #$ is 'cold filtered'?"
Well, I do know someone that works at Miller (just down the road from 
you Kieran, in Fulton) and the best that I can figure is that they have 
ceramic lined pipes that the genuine draft goes through to the bottling 
plant and the beer is passed through ceramic filters.  Also, the bottle 
filler is enclosed in a 'clean room' with people in white suits and hats
and booties.  They even have to step in some sort of alcohol bath before
entering the filler room.  Oh, and they do not pasturize the beer.
	All this says to me that instead of pasturizing to kill all of the 
potential nasty beatsies they filter them out and pay very close attention 
to sanitization.  In fact I heard that they recently pitched something like
1600 (or maybe there is one more zero) cases that didn't pass the bio type 
qc.  The net result is that they work hard to make their beer clean 
enough to last without pasturization.  They call it genuine draft 
because they don't pasturize keg beer either, it goes straight from the 
filler to the cooler and remains cold (supposedly) until serving.
	Oh the price people pay to ensure that their alcoholic beverages
have the same lack of flavor every time!
	On a related topic, has anyone had any Miller 100% Barley Draft?
I think that it is cold filtered too but has no 'cereal' (so they say).
I had some a while ago and it was the most flavorful thing that Miller 
has ever put out (which isn't saying much).

G'Day,

	Joe 

Bitnet: GERMANI at YALEVMS
Decnet: 44421::GERMANI


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

What care I how time advances:
I am drinking ale today.			Poe

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 10:47 CDT
From: MC2331S at ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
Subject: Consistency

	Another bit of antecdotal evidence on beers tasting different here than
on their home turf.  Two years ago I took the Carlsberg tour in Copenhagen.  I
was told that the Carlsberg, Tuborg, Elephant etc. which is shipped here to the
USA is made according to a completely different recipe than the stuff made in
Denmark for domestic consumption.  A-B imports the stuff, but doesn't do anything other than bottle it.  The guide said that the US Carlsberg is made with much
less malt and hops, but a higher alcohol content.
	On a seperate note: what is the best way to condition bottles of
lager?  We have a batch of Irish Lager in the fridge right now and will be
racking it soon.  Do we put the bottles in the closet or the fridge or somewherein between?

	Mark W Castleman
	Big Dog Brewing Cooperative
	MC2331S at ACAD.DRAKE.EDU

	Go see "Robin Hood"!  Friar Tuck is a Brewer!
	"Fine.  You talk, I'll drink."

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 09:26:37 -0700
From: mcnally at Pa.dec.com
Subject: pre-pitching oxidation (oxygenation?)


I've got a batch of sweet stout just getting going in the fermentor.
Because the packet of Wyeast (Irish Ale) was slow to start, I didn't
have time to give it a second feeding in some starter wort.  To offset
the low pitching rate, I decided to aerate the wort more vigorously
than usual.  After cooling, I racked into a carboy which sat overnight
in my newly-built swamp chiller (a sort of idiotic extension to the
wet T-shirt mechanism) at about 60 degrees.  The next morning, I
sterlilized my fermentor and began racking the wort (sans break material)
into it.  So far, nothing unusual; I always do this, and use the Dave
Miller technique of aiming the racking hose such that the wort fans
out over the inside surface of the fermentor.  This time, however, I
stopped the flow after about a gallon, put some clean (not sterlized,
but I'm not worried) saran wrap over the top, picked it up, and shook
the heck out of it.  The result was a two-inch layer of foam on the
wort.  I then pitched the yeast over this and finished racking.  The
beer is now off to a start.

I think I'll probably do this in future whether I've pre-cultured the
yeast or not.  Comments?  Of course, I wouldn't try this in a plastic
bucket fermentor :-)  (My old bucket is now part of my swamp chiller,
along with a little pump, a fan, and a Hunter AirStat.)

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date:         Tue, 25 Jun 91 12:59:35 CDT
From: kevin vang <MN033302 at VM1.NoDak.EDU>
Subject:      exploding bottles

I've always bottled every drop of my brews, even that last bottle which only
gets filled halfway.  I've been brewing now for eight yars, and as of so far,
to my admittedly unreliable memory, not once has a partially filled bottle
exploded.  Not only that, they don't really seem to over- or under-carbonate.
I even primed by putting a spoonful of sugar into each bottle for the first
three years (there's a tedious waste of time for you) and it worked ok then too.

If you really want to explode bottles, make root beer.  I guarantee that will
do it.

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 14:23:57 CDT
From: neptune!jon1!pryzby at uunet.UU.NET (Greg Pryzby)
Subject: beginner's & cat's meow questions

I have been lurking for a few weeks now and just want to thank everyone
out there. The info that is being shared is going to be helpful in the
future (right now alot of it is over my head 8^). 

My first question is concerning the Cat's Meow. When I sent the ps files
to my printer,  I got a U instead of a ' (apostrophe) everywhere,  Q instead
of ??? (I haven't figured out what the Q is suppose to be),  and 0 instead
of a degree. Anyway,  is it a problem with my printer??? 

My first batch is bottled and will (hopefully) be ready for drinking on
the 4th of July. I am already looking forward to my next batch and am
pouring through recipes and trying to determine what I should brew next.
I am open to suggestions. Also any tips that you have would be great.
THe summer issue of zymurgy has an article by Rob Brooke which has some
good pointers,  IHMO. 

Thanks in advance for the info and email is fine. If anyone is interested
in pointers/hints I will compile the data and mail you a synopsis.

peace, 
 greg

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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 16:17:24 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West x4449)
Subject: half-filled bottles 

My own experience:
One time, while bottling, the last one came up short, 
I sealed it up anyway. A couple weeks later I opened 
the `experiment'. Flat and oxidized. Barf. Drain food.

My solution:
Have at least one clean 6oz bottle ready. I use the 
small returnable Coke bottles and *make*sure* to keep 
them in the dark.

CW


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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 09:03:17 EDT
From: adams at bostech.com
Subject: Cold filtered

Kieren asked about cold filtering...

A lot of the microbrews (at least Catamount, I know for sure) use the process
that Miller has made famous as "Cold Filtering". Apparently, most of the
big commercial breweries heat up the fermented beer in order to kill off the
suspended yeast. This avoids ugly sediment and beer grenades. A cooler way
(sorry, couldn't resist) is to pump the beer from the fermentation tank 
through a filter which, I think, is partially made of diatomaceous (sp?) 
earth. The filter clarifies the beer significantly, in addition to pulling out
the remaining yeasties. It has obvious advantages over any process that 
involves heating up the fermented product.

What I can't figure out is why the average Miller drinker would see the ads
and say "Cold filtered? That must be better than heat pasteurized." Then again
the average Miller drinker doesn't know what hops are either...

Dave

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Date: 	Mon, 24 Jun 1991 10:50:24 -0400
From: hplabs!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick)
Subject: Half bottle carbonation

Someone asked about half filled bottles creating too much carbonation.
I don't know if the final pressure is higher, ( I liked the 02 explaination
, but there certainly is higher apparent carbonation when you open it.
When I make Ginger beer, I always put the last bit in  a black champagne
bottle. I use this one to wake up guests who have gotten dulled to the 
bang the normal ones make. The less liquid in the black bottle, the 
more pop it has. I recently had a batch where the black one only had about
5oz. of beer in it (26oz. bottle). The regular champagne bottles make a boom,
like a shotgun when set off, and the corks are gone for about 4 seconds.
The black one in the last batch cracked like a high caliber rifle, and 
the cork was probably in flight for over 5 seconds. Also the partially full
bottle ussualy shoots its entire contents 10-15 feet into the air, where the 
full ones seldom gush higher than about 4-5 feet.
 There is a definite corelation: The emptier the bottle, the louder, and 
the further the cork and the bottle contents go.

Bill Crick Brewius, Ergo Sum.



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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 16:07:32 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: consistency

I guess I wasn't clear in expressing my comment.  I was well aware of
the fact that "Canadian" Miller was brewed in Canada (under licence
of ... etc. -- just like Lowenbrau brewed under licence by Miller --
Aside: Miller's ad campaign where they shipped a keg to Germany to pass
inspection is a complete farce: I don't think any German could drink
U.S. Lowenbrau without spitting up).  I believe the Labatt's purchased
in the U.S., however, has a big "IMPORTED FROM CANADA" on it, but I
could be wrong.  I won't even mention that Moosehead is not even sold
in Canada -- oops, I guess I just did!  I did notice, Jay, that you had
stopped at the state level, the point I wanted to make was related,
though.

The point is, that it's interesting that a reasonable tasting product
can be poured out of a can labeled "Miller,"  while at the same time
a relatively lousy tasting product can come out of a bottle labeled
"Labatt's."  I understand there is/was a price-gouging lawsuit against
the American brands in Canada.  I believe that their defense was that
they do not advertise in Canada and the low cost was due to this reason
(if my memory serves me correctly, the last time I was in Toronto,
24 cans of Canadian beer was approaching 30 $CDN, whereas a case of
an American brand was on the order of 19 $CDN).  My explaniation for
Labatt's tasting bad in the U.S. has always been that it needed to
be pasteurized to be sold here.  Keeping their beer fresh was the
reason I was told that Coors did not used to be sold east of the
Mississippi -- I believe Coors now says that it ships their beer
under refridgeration, but I've seen cases of Coors stacked in the
aisles of the store, so what gives?  I know that beer purchased in
Canada used to spoil in a few months if not refridgerated.  Beer in
Alberta used to always be stored in walk-in coolers and only came in
bottles, but on my most recent trip to Calgary (1988) and my last
trip to Vancouver (1990), they cans and the cans were stacked in the
aisles of the store.  Have they started pasteurizing?

Al.


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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 15:53:06 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Cold Filtering, and the Conference

In HOMEBREW Digest #666 (the Issue of the Beast 8-), Kieran O'Connor
asked a very cogent question:

>	--what the * at #$ is "cold filtered"?

A marketing ploy.  Virtually every commercial brewer filters their
beer, and virtually all do so cold, to (try to) remove chill-haze
before bottling.  A lot of other stuff is stripped out as well, 
but their process is calibrated for that.  Bottled beers labeled
"draft" can't, by law, be pasteurized, so they must be very finely
filtered to eliminate possible biological contamination;  Coors,
for example, has done this for years with all their beers.  Miller
marketeers saw an opportunity, and like A-B with their beechwood
aging, made marketing hay on a technique imposed on them by other
parts of their process.

And to all of you posting glowing reports of what must have been
an outstanding conference:  YOU CAN'T IMAGINE HOW JEALOUS I AM!!
Maybe next year.  And in Mike Sharp's report on the Lambic Net (the
only traffic there in weeks, it seems) I note that Phil Moeller,
a fellow GCBA member, was there; so I'm sure I'll hear all about it
at least once more ...

Speaking of Mike and lambics, if you thought that he'd done a huge
amount of advance work to make his tastings go so well, you're
right!

= Martin A. Lodahl   			  Pacific*Bell Staff Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 16:05:24 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Ullage

My first batch was, to be charitable, sub-optimal.  Among my many
sins in producing that batch was wildly inconsistent ullage, ranging
from 1/8" to 2+".  I noticed that the sound made in lifting a crown
would vary considerably, roughly proportional to the headspace. 
Bottles with lots of ullage roared "PSSSSSST!!", while those with
less were more reserved.  Then I bought a copy of Miller, and have
used his recommended (small) headspace ever since, without further
reflection.

Until this year's nationals.  The bottles I sent in never had less
than 1/2" nor more than 3/4" ullage, but some judges seemed to find
this uncomfortably small.  Several commented on the "overfill", and
one made the curious remark that though it was rather full, it
didn't gush.  I've never noticed a correlation between fill and
gushing.

Perhaps the answer is that if you're entering contests, it's a good
idea to tailor both the bottles you use and the way you fill them to
the apparent tastes of the judges ...

= Martin A. Lodahl   			  Pacific*Bell Staff Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: 25 JUN 91 17:05:58
From: EDPY030%UNLCDC2.BITNET at VM1.NoDak.EDU
Subject: BEER

DEAR FRIEND,
PLEASE REMOVE MY NAME FROM THE HOMEBREW DIGEST MAILING LIST.
THANK YOU
TERRI  EDPY030 at UNLCDC2


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #667, 06/26/91
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