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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  SNPA Yeast... (Dave Beedle)
  Beer Tastes (Tom Nolan)
  Hops Propagation (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Please add me to your mailing list. (Chris Woodward)
  Re: consistently bland beer (Mark Sandrock)
  New Kirin Beer (John E. Greene)
  CatUs Meow / Digest #667 (Darren Evans-Young)
  Beer Ingredients (Dave Finberg)
  Unheard cries for subscription and unsubscription to the list. (Bruce Hill)
  Oxygenating Wort (bryan)
  Overdo the 02 (C.R. Saikley)
  1/2 batches (Joe Kendall)
  re: half-filled bottles (Pete Soper)
  Winner's Circle (hersh)
  Wort Aeration (Jack Baty)
  Winner's Circle Beers (Jack Baty)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #668 (June 27, 1991) ("One slip, and down the hole we fall")


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 8:54:34 CDT
From: dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Dave Beedle)
Subject: SNPA Yeast...

     Hi all.  A couple days ago I ran down to the local good beer store to
get some Sierra Nevade Pale Ale with the idea of culturing the yeast for a
botle or two.  They had only one six pack dated March 5th (or close to).
Anyway I prepared a starter of ~1/2 cup DME to a pint of H2O and some hops.
So far no activity, though it is hazy.  Is this normal?  How long does it
take for the stuff to take off?  Are the bottles just too old?  Hope they
get more soon....
 
TTFN

- --
  Dave Beedle                                     Office of Academic Computing
                                                     Illinois State University
  Internet:  dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu                     136A Julian Hall  
    Bitnet:  dbeedle at ilstu.bitnet                           Normal, Il   61761

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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 10:28:18 -0400
From: nolan at lheavx.DNET.NASA.GOV (Tom Nolan)
Subject: Beer Tastes

Paul Schmidt (prs at titan.hq.ileaf.com) asks about examples of commercial
beers with specific tastes; he mentions "hoppy", "sweet", "estery". Here's
a couple of suggestions:

hoppy - Samuel Adams Lager is amazing. It's like sticking your head
        in a hops basket. Try drinking it straight from the bottle.
        I don't know, it must shoot the hops right up your nose.

sweet - Any of the scotch ales, like McEwans. They're apparently brewed
        with crippled yeast to produce sweet diacetyl flavors. The
        only trouble is finding a fresh bottle. McEwans in particular
        is in clear glass and tends to go off.

estery - Anchor Liberty Ale is very fruity for a commercial
        beer. This is typical for an "ale" style but still strange to
        the American palate, if there is such a thing.

Tom

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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 8:20:18 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Hops Propagation

In HOMEBREW Digest #668, Jim White asked:

>I planted 4 hop rhizomes (2 Cascade, 1 Willamette, 1 Mt.Hood) about the
>middle of May. To date just 1 (The Willamette) has broken the surface.
[ ... ]
>Does it typically take 5-6 weeks for signs of life? Should I be concerned?

Both times I planted hops, I planted at the beginning of March and didn't
see any sign of activity until late in April.  No call for concern!

Oh, and by the way, I got only about half of HBD #667.  Could some
kind soul send me a complete copy?  Thanks ...

= Martin A. Lodahl   			  Pacific*Bell Staff Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1991 11:43:35 ADT
From: cw at esv.bgsm.wfu.EDU (Chris Woodward)
Subject: Please add me to your mailing list.

after sending several requests to the homebrew-request address with
no response I decided to go straight to the source... sorry.
Would you please add me to your list of subscribers.
thank you.
 -chris

- -- 
chris woodward      =|
cw at esv.bgsm.wfu.edu =|
======================

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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 10:56:05 CDT
From: Mark Sandrock <sandrock at aries.scs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: consistently bland beer

> ... Now imagine that,
> filtering out all the yeast, then adding some back in! All this for the sake
> of producing a consistently bland beer and keeping it consistently bland
> longer.
> 
> Pass the Sierra Nevada please,
> CR

Well, I like my Sierra Nevada too, but rumor has it that these guys (AB,
Miller, Kirin, etc.) are in business to make money!

I feel the same way in the grocery seeing all the people buying Coke/Pepsi
by the gallon instead of fruit juice -- especially for kids!

I think that very little of the cost of typical beers and soft drinks is in
the ingredients, and most is in packaging, distribution, advertising, (and
profit).  Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be "the American way".

All the more reason to "brew it yourself".

Cheers,

Mark Sandrock

P.S. I sometimes tease my kids when they want me to buy them pop (which I
do on occasion). "Coke, the REAL thing, artifical color, artificial flavor,
artificial sweetener, right!" I say, "Fruit juice, the REAL thing!"
- -- 
BITNET:   sandrock at uiucscs	        Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Internet: sandrock at aries.scs.uiuc.edu   Chemical Sciences Computing Services
Voice:    217-244-0561		        505 S. Mathews Ave., Urbana, IL  61801

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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 09:02:28 PDT
From: jeg at desktalk.com (John E. Greene)
Subject: New Kirin Beer

I recently participated in a marketing survey for a new beer the Kirin is 
introducing.  At the time it was called "Kirin Limited".  I was a very good
beer for a commercial beer.  However, I was rather dismayed by the way the 
survey went because it was obvious that they were intending to market this 
beer as a 'trendy' 'yuppy' brew.  The whole marketing strategy was toward
would I buy the beer base on the 'image' or the looks of the bottle rather 
than how it tastes.  Such a waste.  They were also planning on charging $6
a six pack for it.  My comments were, "It's a really good beer, but not
*that* good".  

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John E. Greene             Everyone needs something to believe in.  I believe 
Sr. Staff Engineer         I'll have another homebrew!
Desktalk Systems Inc.      
(213) 323-5998             internet:  jeg at desktalk.desktalk.com

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Date:         Thu, 27 Jun 91 12:57:53 CDT
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject:      CatUs Meow / Digest #667


The problem with CatUs Meow is not strictly limited to printers.
When I FTP the files, whether from mainframe or PC, special characters
are replaced by letters after the file is uncompressed.  I've tried
many ways of retrieving these files, but I still get the changed characters.

My issue of digest #667 was truncated.  Also, every archive or subscriber
I contacted had a truncated file (about 380 records).  Does anyone have
the entire digest they could send me?

Darren

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Darren Evans-Young, Sys Prg                  BITNET: DARREN at UA1VM.BITNET  |
| The University of Alabama                  Internet: DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU  |
| Seebeck Computer Center                       Phone: (205)348-3988 / 5380 |
| Tuscaloosa, Alabama  35487-0346                      (205)348-3993 FAX    |
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*

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Date:         Thu, 27 Jun 91 13:57:24 EDT
From: Dave Finberg <DIFINB%WMVM1.bitnet at VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Beer Ingredients

Well, I am a newcomer to the list so kill me I am repeating a point, but
a drop of milk in a full glass of beer is enough to destroy all natural
foam.  Try it sometime with some of the commercial beers and see what
happens!  Sorry if my chemistry is not up to explaining why this happens.
                                     -- David Finberg

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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 12:31:00 PDT
From: dannet!bruce at uunet.UU.NET (Bruce Hill)
Subject: Unheard cries for subscription and unsubscription to the list.


I have seen an awful lot of people posting to the digest for subscription
and unsubscription requests.  Here's the reason no one seems to be at
homebrew-request -- Rob Gardner is in Sweden until July 1.  Please be 
patient, when he returns I'm sure he is going to have alot of mail
to wade through.

We now continue with your scheduled programming.......

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Date: 27 Jun 91 12:38:21 PDT (Thu)
From: bryan at tekgen.bv.tek.com
Subject: Oxygenating Wort

I recently ran a test on the effects of oxygenating the cooled wort prior
to pitching the yeast. I brewed what turned out to be about 8 1/2 gallons
of a Pale Ale (O.G. of 57) in a 10 gallon pot. 5 gallons went in 1 fermenter
and 3 1/2 gallons went in another. While transferring the wort, I gave it
a stir regularly to ensure the same density of wort went into both carboys.
When transferring the cooled wort into the 5 gal carboy, I stopped at 3
or 4 points and gave the carboy a good shake. The carboy would have several 
inches of foam on top when I was done shaking it. The carboy with 3 1/2 
gallons I shook only once, at the end. I had a starter made and pitched a
generous amount of Wyeast American yeast into each.

At 8 days the measured gravity was 20 for the carboy with a minimal amount
of oxygenating and 14 for the carboy with lots of oxygenating. In general
the carboy with lots of oxygenating had a much more vigorous fermentation,
(visual observation).

			Bryan


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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 12:45:22 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Overdo the 02


I thought I'd share my method for oxygenating (as opposed to aerating or 
oxidizing) my wort. Since I'm somewhat of a fanatic, I'm sure some of you 
will find it amusing.

My brewing environment is rather hostile. I brew outside for several
reasons, but this has the disadvantage of putting me amidst several fruit
trees. There are always oranges, lemons, figs, or tangerines on the ground
spewing spores everywhere. Add to this the algae laden fish pond and you've
got a microbial zoo. Under these conditions, I'm forced to do everything I
can to minimize exposure of fertile wort to the elements.

When I lived elsewhere, I employed the afore-mentioned technique of
vigorously shaking a partly filled carboy to aerate it thoroughly. That no
longer works. When you do that, you are also putting whatever critters are
in the air in intimate contact with your wort. In my zoo, this is enough to
cause infection related off flavors in the beer. In the spirit of overkill,
here is my solution :

Place a T fitting on the *cool* side of the counter-flow wort chiller. 
Connect one side of the T to a tank of medical grade oxygen!!! Connect 
the other side (via some tubing) to one of those orange colored plastic 
carboy caps with two tubes sticking out of it. In the cap's other tube 
place a stem thermometer so that the stem sticks right into the flow of
wort. When it's all set up, you turn on the valves in the right sequence,
and you get cooled oxygenated wort at the right temperature into the carboy
without exposing it to the environment. The chilling, oxygenating,
transferring system is completely closed. Besides being really cool, it
works very well. The yeast really takes off.

Alan Kornblum, the brewing chemist at Anchor, informed me that most
commercial breweries aerate their wort rather than oxygenate. This is
primarily because excess oxygen can cause yeast mutations and it's easier 
to not overdo it if you avoid pure oxygen. I seldom repitch my yeast, so
mutations aren't a big concern.

To be used only under adult supervision..........8-}

CR


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Date: 06/27/91
From: Joe Kendall <SYSHJK%GSU.EDU at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: 1/2 batches

 Howdy,
   Disclaimer first:  I'm a novice home brewer.  Now that that's out of the
 way, here's my question.  A buddy of mine has gotten good results by using
 2 homebrew kits in one 5 gallon batch of beer.  I think this was recommended
 in "Joy of Homebrewing".  It seems to me what one changes by putting in 2
 cans of "good stuff" instead of one, is the ratio of "good stuff" to water.
 Can one accomplish the same thing by putting in one brew kit and half the
 normal amount of water.  I hope so.

 
 

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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 17:29:32 EDT
From: Pete Soper <soper at encore.com>
Subject: re: half-filled bottles

  Two considerations:

  1. It is the rapid expansion of the headspace gas that propels broken glass.
     The bigger the starting volume (and pressure of course), the more energy
     available to shove a piece of glass into your body.
  2. Thermal expansion of beer will cause the bottle and/or cap to fail if
     you use too little headspace and the beer then warms up enough.

  This has been repeated periodically in "Zymurgy", in the Digest, etc. Item
one is a serious safety issue that beginning brewers should pay special
attention to. Item two is just a heart breaker that you'll observe if you
go too far with minimizing headspace.


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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 19:35:11 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Winner's Circle


Mike:
I was under the impression the discussion was also including winners more
recent than the book. I may be wrong on this though.
Do you recall the statistics announced for this year's winners. Don't quote me
on this, but I think that the number of winning extract brews was not
significantly different (on a percentage wise basis) from their representation
in the total entries.

HOWEVER The number of winners who used liquid yeasts WAS disproportionate from
the percentage of entries, implying that liquid yeast has a significant impact
on brewing quality.

JaH  (I'm always right, except when I'm wrong)


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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 19:16:10 CDT
From: jack at wubios.wustl.edu (Jack Baty)
Subject: Wort Aeration

> From: dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu (Don McDaniel)
> Subject: Aerating worts

> Like Mike, my primary reference is Miller.  I used to fan the wort
> over the sides of the primary when racking to aerate the wort.
> With this method, I experienced a variety of problems with long
> lags, slow or stuck ferments, and high terminal gravities.  So

      Since writing his book, Dave Miller has changed his ideas on wort
  aeration.  At a meeting of the St. Louis Brews a while back he suggested
  aerating the wort every half hour or so after pitching for at least
  several hours.
      More recently he has been experimenting with a homemade version of the
  'Happy Yeast Air Infusion System' reviewed in the Winter 1990 _Zymurgy_.
  This uses an aquarium pump to pump air through a filter and into the
  wort.  According to the review, the manufacturer suggests aerating for
  five hours.

- -- 
Jack Baty
Division of Biostatistics   Washington University Medical School   St. Louis
jack at wubios.WUstl.edu

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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 91 19:30:42 CDT
From: jack at wubios.wustl.edu (Jack Baty)
Subject: Winner's Circle Beers

  In the last two special issues of _Zymurgy_, the Winner's Circle column
  has published statistics about the entries to the national homebrew
  competition.  Here are excerpts:

  1989 Based on data from over 850 entries
		Entered    Placed 1, 2, or 3
  Extract         28%             22%
  Partial Mash    23%             18%
  All-Grain       49%             60%

  1990 Based on data from 1548 entries
		Entered    Placed 1, 2, or 3
  Extract         22%             20%
  Partial Mash    27%             20%
  All-Grain       51%             60%

  Of course, in interpreting the numbers one must take into account that
  more experienced brewers may be more likely to submit all-grain beers.

- -- 
Jack Baty

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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1991 00:17 EDT
From: "One slip, and down the hole we fall" <ACSWILEY%EKU.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #668 (June 27, 1991)


Howdy Brewfreaks!

  Well as ya'll know I'm fairly new to homebrewing...cooked my first batch
and its in the bottles now. Everything is going according to plan. I popped
the top on one and its smells and tastes ok....the thing is that the first
try I used a "kit" you know open the can..boil..add sugar etc..which is fine.
for the first time..but I want to branch out (i'm allready hooked on the
hobby :)  the deal is the 2 suppliers who I got catalogs from really have a
limited inventory..as far as supplies go...I won't mention any names...but
one starts with a O and is from Ill. the other is from NC...what I would
like to know is there a mail order supplier who stocks it all...I want to
continue with extracts...but eventually I want to try some grain recipes..
any help would be greatly appreciated...you guys have been really helpful
thanks again to ya'll!!! direct e-mail is fine.

                                             Bill

acswiley at eku.bitnet

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #669, 06/28/91
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