---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  halfers, taste differences (Bill Crick)
  Re: Beer Tastes (and Sam Adams) (Kevin L. McBride)
  1/2 batches (Steven M Casagrande +1 908 949 6737)
  hoppt (Russ Gelinas)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #669 (June 28, 1991) (Alex_M._Stein.osbu_south)
  Near Beer (Rick Myers)
  BEER (EDPY030)
  Brew Clubs in Mass (Greg_Habel)
  fruit juice, Catus Meow, and O2 (Brian Bliss)
  Conference observations & comments (BAUGHMANKR)
  Need info on Keg hardware (Randy Tidd)
  Red pot bottoms... (GARY MASON - I/V/V PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  29-Jun-1991 1603)
  RE:  US formulations of imported beers. (Daniel L. Krus)


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[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: 	Wed, 26 Jun 1991 16:24:02 -0400
From: hplabs!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick)
Subject: halfers, taste differences

I sent an article in on the carbonation levels of half bottles, but it
seems to take my posts a long time to show up? It must be flying around
on someones disk god know wherre?

I always bottle that last half bottle, and have never had any blow up, but
I have noticed that they are more prone to excessive foaming when being poured.
IE: Their apparent carbonation is higher.

Regarding differences between beer tastes in different countries, I have
noticed that most Canadian beers taste different as you travel from province to
to province. I was told this is due to local market preferences?
Note that we don't have a free trade agreement inside Canada, so beer sold in
a province must be brewed in that province! It seems a bit silly to 
have to travel to the states to sample several Canadian beers that it is 
not legal for me to buy in Ontario? Of course that's not the only silly thing
I can think of that is unique to Canada.

Most American brands sold in Canada are brewed under licensce by a 
Canadian brewery.
I believe most Canadian brands sold in the US are Imported from Canada, and 
sold as such. I've never tasted them to compare to the sold in Canada 
versions. I'm always amazed how many places sell Molson Golden on tap in the
states!

Bill Crick  Brewuis, Egro Summer!



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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 91 7:35:44 EDT
From: gozer!klm at uunet.UU.NET (Kevin L. McBride)
Subject: Re: Beer Tastes (and Sam Adams)

Tom Nolan (nolan at lheavx.DNET.NASA.GOV) writes:
>
>Paul Schmidt (prs at titan.hq.ileaf.com) asks about examples of commercial
>beers with specific tastes; he mentions "hoppy", "sweet", "estery". Here's
>a couple of suggestions:
>
>hoppy - Samuel Adams Lager is amazing. It's like sticking your head
>        in a hops basket. Try drinking it straight from the bottle.
>        I don't know, it must shoot the hops right up your nose.

That would have been my choice as well.  Harpoon Lager is also pretty
heavily hopped for a medium-light lager.

>sweet - Any of the scotch ales, like McEwans. They're apparently brewed
>        with crippled yeast to produce sweet diacetyl flavors. The
>        only trouble is finding a fresh bottle. McEwans in particular
>        is in clear glass and tends to go off.

Sam Adams Double Bock is a fairly sweet beer.  Anybody at the
Conference get to try "Wee Heavy" on Friday night?  Now that was
sweet, not to mention having a "hit me over the head with a stick"
alcohol content!

>estery - Anchor Liberty Ale is very fruity for a commercial
>        beer. This is typical for an "ale" style but still strange to
>        the American palate, if there is such a thing.

You want fruity?  Try the new (you guessed it!) Samuel Adams Wheat
Beer (!!) due to hit the stores in a couple of weeks.  It's light and
crisp, a good thirst quencher, with an incredible banana ester.  I
hope it's as good in a bottle as it was straight out of the
conditioning tank at the brewery.

During the Saturday brewery crawl at the AHA conference we visited the
Boston Beer Co. and Jim Koch (he pronounces it "Cook") himself served
as tour guide.  When he was done discussing the brewery operations, he
grabbed a stack of plastic cups and said "Anybody wanna try some
beer?"  (silly question :-) He then proceeded to open the spigot on
the "bright beer tank" and pour a glass for everybody who wanted one.

If someone out there was in attendance and taking notes, maybe you
could pass along some of the comments Jim made about the yeast he uses
for the Wheat Beer?  It's pretty amazing stuff.  Anybody out there
know Fred Eckhardt personally?  I know he was taking notes.  Now if we
could get him on the net...

I always used to think Jim Koch was a marketing slime type, probably
because I get to hear his commercials on Boston radio all the time.
After talking beer with him at the brewery, I've found a new respect
for him and his products.

Try the wheat beer.  I thought it was pretty amazing.  It smells more
like real bananas than real bananas do! :-) Your mileage may vary.

- -- 
Kevin L. McBride     klm at gozer.uucp  -or-  uunet!wang!gozer!klm
Brew Free or Die!
Nashua, NH

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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 91 08:56:41 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!hotsc!smc (Steven M Casagrande +1 908 949 6737)
Subject: 1/2 batches

>  ...  A buddy of mine has gotten good results by using
>  2 homebrew kits in one 5 gallon batch of beer...
>
>  Can one accomplish the same thing by putting in one brew kit and half the
>  normal amount of water.  I hope so.

My first batch was a 'short' batch by mistake (didn't measure the H20
correctly) and I ended up with about 3 or 3.5 gallons for my 5 gallon
extract recipe.  I was GREAT!  Quite strong, and it was very
flavorful.

One problem - it was so good, it didn't last long!  Also, you really
couldn't drink more than 1 or 2 at a time due to the alcohol content,
or you'd really get  at #$(*(%# :-).

I haven't tried the two-cans-of-extract for one batch method yet, but
that seems like the best of both worlds (full batch, but very strong at
the same time).  I may make my next batch in a similar manner.

Steve Casagrande
smc at hotsc.att.com


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Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1991 11:31:48 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: hoppt

Someone said to smell Sam Adams Lager straight from the bottle for an
example of a hops aroma.  I agree, but Sam Adams Stock Ale has even *more*
hops aroma, almost too much for me, and I like hops alot.  The hops do
seem to be more easily sniffed from the bottle.  Maybe the small nostril-
sized (more or less) opening helps concentrate the aroma for a good sniff.
I always take a good sniff from the open bottle before I pour off any beer.

Russ

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Date: 	Fri, 28 Jun 1991 08:31:28 PDT
From: Alex_M._Stein.osbu_south at xerox.com
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #669 (June 28, 1991)

Tom Nolan (nolan at lheavx.DNET.NASA.GOV) described Sam Adams Lager as "like
putting your head in a hop basket."  Strange, that's how I used to think of
Liberty Ale, which we get in LA both in bottled form on on draft in several of
the finer drinking establishments.

And then, I went to the Anchor brewery and drank fresh Liberty Ale.  It was as
if I'd died and gone to hop heaven.  I've never tasted anything so fragrant and
wonderful and ... hoppy.  Highly recommended.  But then, I'm a big-time
hophead.

Alex Stein
astein.osbu_south at xerox.com

PS:  Unfortunately, I find it hard to drink "normal" Liberty Ale now, since the
intense hoppiness seems to fade and, although I still love it, I can't help but
compare it to the fresh unbelievably hoppy Liberty Ale I had at the brewery.

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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 91 9:48:57 MDT
From: Rick Myers <hp-lsd!hpctdpe!rcm>
Subject: Near Beer
Full-Name: Rick Myers


Somebody recently asked about non-alcholic brewing.  I thought for sure
that somebody would mention the article in latest issue (July) of Popular
Mechanics!  I will recap that article here, since it has some good info
in it...

There are four methods currently used to make beer devoid of alcohol:

a) vacuum distillation
b) diffusion or reverse osmosis
c) "stupid" yeast that ferments only 1% of the fermentables in the wort
d) arrested fermentation

The fourth method, arrested fermentation, seems to produce the best
tasting non-alcholic beer, according to PM's tasting panel.  The top
three brews used the arrested fermentation method.

PM's rating were:

Outstanding
   1. Clausthaler(Binding)
   2. Haake Beck(Beck)
   3. Sharp's(Miller)
Recommended
   4. Pabst N.A.(Pabst)
   5. Buckler(Heineken)
Drinkable
   6. O'Doul's(Anheuser-Busch)
   7. Old Milwaukee N.A.(Stroh)
   8. Texas Select(San Antonio)
   9. Birell(Hurlimann)
  10. Kaliber(Guiness)
  11. NA(San Antonio)
  12. Goetz Pale Near Beer(Pearl)
  13. Moussy(Cardinal)
Poor
  14. Texas Light Dark(San Antonio)
  15. Kingsbury(Heilemann)
  16. Hamm's N.A.(Pabst)
  17. Texas Light(San Antonio)


I thought the 'Drinkable' category amusing, as I don't find any of
those listed in that category as being drinkable...
- --
Rick Myers    rcm at col.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard
Colorado Telecommunications Division

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Date: 28 JUN 91 10:48:15
From: EDPY030%UNLCDC2.BITNET at VM1.NoDak.EDU
Subject: BEER

HELLO... HELLO...
ANYBODY OUT THERE?
I'VE BEEN TRYING FOR WEEKS TO CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION TO THE HOMEBREW DIGEST.
I'VE NOW RESORTED TO SENDING THIS MESSAGE TO EVERY ADDRESS I CAN FIND.  IF
I'VE REACHED SOMEONE, PLEASE BE SO KIND AS TO REMOVE MY NAME FROM THE MAIL-
ING LIST.
THANKS
TERRI     EDPY030 at UNLCDC2


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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 91 10:21:58 edt
From: Greg_Habel at DGC.MCEO.DG.COM
Subject: Brew Clubs in Mass

CEO summary:
Is anyone aware of any brew clubs in Mass that are not listed in 
Zymurgy?  I live in Hopedale (south west of Boston) and am looking to 
join a club.  All of the clubs mentioned in Zymurgy are more than 1 
hours drive.  By the way... I just recently discovered HDB and am 
very glad to hear brewing conversations.  Well its back to the keg 
for another pint of homebrew!  Greg.




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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 91 11:53:18 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: fruit juice, Catus Meow, and O2


> P.S. I sometimes tease my kids when they want me to buy them pop (which I
> do on occasion). "Coke, the REAL thing, artifical color, artificial flavor,
> artificial sweetener, right!" I say, "Fruit juice, the REAL thing!"

The hard part is finding a brand whose major ingredient isn't
corn sweetener... (Even if it is, I still prefer it to coke)


> The problem with CatUs Meow is not strictly limited to printers.
> When I FTP the files, whether from mainframe or PC, special characters
> are replaced by letters after the file is uncompressed.  I've tried
> many ways of retrieving these files, but I still get the changed characters.

Yes. The authors to "uuencode" the file after they compress it
(not vice-versa!), and stick it somewhere where we can ftp it.
This is standard stuff for files with special characters in them,
such as raster images, or the output from "compress".


> At 8 days the measured gravity was 20 for the carboy with a minimal amount
> of oxygenating and 14 for the carboy with lots of oxygenating. In general
> the carboy with lots of oxygenating had a much more vigorous fermentation,
> (visual observation).

Please be sure to tell us if the final gravity for the less-oxygenated
wort is the same, even if it takes longer to get there...

On the same note, in trying to get my orange-ginger mead to carbonate,
I took both cases and shook them last night.  Did I pull a SNAFU?
It's a dry mead, OG 1.088, FG .998, so fermentation stopped from lack
of fermentables.  I added 3/4 cup of corn sugar for bottling.
It's been a month or two since bottling, and it spent 2.5 months
fermenting.

BTW, it's the same mead that had a "soapy" taste to it when
it was fermenting.  From the responses we got here, I thought
the taste was from not peeling the ginger.  When fermentation finally
stopped, it was totally clear a day later, and the soapy taste was
completely gone.  I must conclude that the taste was from the yeast
(M & F champagne yeast, If I remember correctly).

cheers!

bb


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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1991 13:29 EST
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: Conference observations & comments

Greetings one and all:

I just got back from the New Hampshire Conference and am catching up on 
all the Digests that came in while I was gone.

I thought the New Hampshire Conference was another resounding success.  
This makes my fifth national conference and I can't think of another event 
that I enjoy as much.  A motel full of homebrewing freaks, each anxious to 
talk and share their latest and greatest brews.  That's about as close to 
homebrew heaven as a poor old country boy like me can get.  That goes for 
you city boys, too. :-)

It was great to put faces to some of the e-mail addresses I've been seeing 
for the last year.  Mike Sharp gave a great Belgian lambic beer tasting.  
I found out too late to actually participate but I did wander around and 
grabbed a few sips from the ever-generous crowd.  I played basketball in 
Belgium 13 years ago so I had already sampled most of the beers that were 
served in Manchester.  I always love to see the look on someone's face as 
they sample these precious bottles of God's nectar for the first time!  I 
even found Charlie Papazian's horse blanket kriek surprisingly close to 
style.

A few more observations: (because I can't resist!!)

I met Jay Hersh for the first time around 3:00 a.m. in his room.  He's the 
only man I've ever seen who can read an issue of Zymurgy while fast 
asleep!

The Cornell contingent was well-represented.  The Cornell site must have 
more homebrewers per site than any other node on the net.  They may be 
quiet on the Net but they spent the majority of homebrew club night plying 
me with beers and stories.  Then they sent me off stumbling to my room.
Thanks, guys!  It was great!  You may talk with a funny accent but you 
make superb beers!  BTW, Dr. Beebe, I'm Master Baughman to you. :-)

Darryl Richman, thanks to the fame and quality of his responses on the 
Digest, was as popular a personage as the inimitable Charlie P.  All week 
long, one could hear, "Are YOU Darryl Richman?!!!!!" echoing through the 
halls.  Oh, the price of fame and notoriety......

Martin Lodahl wasn't there to spout his memorable impressions of the beer 
in hand but someone had brought along his picture.  I'm not sure how much 
money Martin had to pay him to do it, but it was barely worth the price!  
Sorry you missed the framboise tasting, Martin.  I'd love to have heard 
your impressions of some of those beers.

Pete Soper was there to help me prove once again that the culture and 
breeding of the south shines like a beacon through the murky darkness 
and cultural depravity of those lands beyond the Mason Dixon and 
Mississippi River.  But, hey, we understand that you can't help where 
you were born. :-) 

I talked with Russ Gelinas for a while at the framboise tasting.  But we 
didn't drink enough to break through his calm, even temper so I have no 
lurid tales to tell of him terrorizing the night!

As for me, I maintained my usual calm, unassuming disposition, maintaining 
sobriety at all times, preaching moderation in all things, and only saw 
the sun rise twice.

Now on to various and sundry comments from the last 10 HBD's:

You can make the pick-up tube in a keg longer after cutting it by 
attaching a short length of siphon hose to the bottom.  It's a good idea 
to change it every now and then.

A nice way to get the effect of boiling hops loose in the pot with the 
convenience of putting them in a hop bag is to line the boiling pot with 
either a sparging bag or a BIG mesh bag, one that allows you to fold back 
the top along the rim of the pot.  You might need to weigh down the big 
mesh bag with a circle of copper tubing.  When the boil is over, pull the 
bag out of the pot, taking with it the hops and a fair amount of trub.  
However, I STILL say use the pot scrubber in a hop bag routine.  It's 
simpler and works great.

Beer Periodicals:

_Zymurgy_  &  _The New Brewer_
Box 287
Boulder, CO 80306-0287

Amateur Brewer
1082 B St.
Hayward, CA 94541

All About Beer
Bosack Publishing Co.
4764 Galicia Way
Oceanside, CA 92056

The California Celebrator Beer News
4747 Hopyard Rd. Suite 100
Pleasanton, CA 94566

Cascade Beer News
POB 12247
Portland, OR 97212

The Yankee Brew News
Brasseur Publications
POB 8053
J.F.K. Station
Boston, Mass 02114

Heads Up
Beer Drinkers of America
150 Paularino AVe.
Suite 190
Costa Mesa, CA 92626

As for a quick way to empty carboys:  Stick your siphon hose or a long 
length of copper tubing into the carboy and pour.  I guess this is a 
variation of the soda straw in a bottle technique.  I just discovered it 
about a year ago and slapped myself (ouch!) for not having realized it 
earlier. 

Mike Schremp seemed to imply that when mashing in a picnic cooler, one can 
recover the mash water, heat it up on the stove, and then return the water 
to the cooler to boost the temperature.  BE CAREFUL!!!!!!!!  The mash 
water contains all the enzymes and if you bring that water to a boil, you 
will destroy all the enzymes and thus kill the starch conversion process.

Treating water with Burton Salts:  
If you're brewing with extracts, forget the water salts.  The extracts 
already contain all the minerals and salts that you will need for that 
beer.  If you're making an all-grain beer, it's better to get your water 
tested at your local water plant or give them a call for the ion content 
of the water if you're already on their system.  Adjust your water 
according to beer you're trying to make.  In general, soft water for 
lagers.  Hard water for English type ales.  

An interesting aside here.  Pere Theodore of Chimay fame told me that the 
water at the monastery is extremely soft and they make their ales without 
treating it at all.

Still on the subject of water treatment, watch out for the transcripts of 
the Manchester conference.  Greg Noonan gave a great workshop, in 
particular giving references to easily obtained kits that allow the 
testing of your water in your own home. 

Clean your boiling pots, Bruheats, and coffee pots of stains by boiling a 
little bit of B-Brite in them.  The more I use that stuff, the more uses I 
find for it.

To increase heat transfer in your 15 gallon keg-converted boilers:
Find a fifty gallon drum.  Cut the top foot or two off with a metal 
cutting blade on a circular saw (or take it to a welder).  Then cut a 
circle out of the other end of the barrel, just big enough to fit the 
keg/boiler through.  The idea here is to make a jacket that goes around 
the keg which traps much of the heat that would otherwise escape to the 
air and slip this jacket around the boiler during the boil.  You'll also 
need to cut a couple of 1" x 5" holes around the top of the fifty-gallon 
drum to allow the gases from the burner to escape.

I entirely agree with Mike McNally's observation that one should aerate 
the wort in the carboy by sloshing the beer around while it's filling.  
I've been advocating that for my BrewCap customers for the last five or 
six years.  It's especially important to aerate the wort well in the 
BrewCap since it is a closed fermentation system.  The idea of connecting 
a T-fitting in-line with an aquarium pump pumping air into the cool wort 
sounds like a great idea.  I can't wait to give it a try.

Cheers ya'll,

Kinney Baughman                   |  Beer is my business and
baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu    |  I'm late for work.
 



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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 91 16:33:17 -0400
From: randy at grebyn.com (Randy Tidd)
Subject: Need info on Keg hardware


I have a question about Kegging my homebrew -- but my subscription
to this forum isn't currently active, so I'd appreciate a reply
via e-mail.

I recently acquired one of the old-fashioned aluminum kegs, one of
the Aheiser Busch "Golden Gate Kegs"; these are the ones with the
bung hole in the middle of the side, and taps on the top and bottom.
What I need is the hardware to use it -- replacement bungs, and a
tapper system. The tapper system will have to be a 2-piece one, with
the pump for the top tap hole and a spigot for the bottom tap hole.

Can anyone give me any pointers? I asked my local homebrew shop and
the guys at 1-800-321-BREW and neither could help me out. One guy
mentioned a place in Kansas called Foxx, but I have no way of knowing
what their phone number is or even if they still exist. Any tips on
this company would also be appreciated.

Again, please send the info via e-mail to randy at grebyn.com.

Thanks!


Randy Tidd
randy at grebyn.com

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Date: Sat, 29 Jun 91 00:06:10 -0400
From: Tim.Weil at f131.n109.z1.FidoNet.Org (Tim Weil)

Problem - How to extend standard 5 gallon all-grain
          mash recipes to 7 gallon volume.
 
Variables -
          *  Conflicting information!!!  I recently
             followed a ZYMURGY recipe from the Yeast Special
             Issue that used 15-20 lbs. of grain & I still
             only produced 6 gallons.
          
          *  99% of all published recipes appear to target
             5 gallon batches, regardless of the contents used.
 
          *  The '1 quart of water to 1 pound of grain' rule of 
             thumb doesn't seem to help.  Is more sparge water
             the answer?
 
Questions -
          *  What are some tried-and-true 'extender' techniques
             for increasing water content but not diluting the beer
             for an all-grain mash.
 
thanks....  Tim.Weil at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org


 * Origin: Cluster (No Tarmac) McLean, VA 703-448-0926 (1:109/131.0)
  

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Date: Sat, 29 Jun 91 16:07:37 -0400
From: mason at habs11.ENET.DEC.COM (GARY MASON - I/V/V PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503 29-Jun-1991 1603)
Subject: Red pot bottoms...

You all know I am a scaredy-cat when it comes to this, hence the question: 

	How far can you let the bottom of a pot go?  I have a commercial
	quality ten gallon, SS with bottom cladding, for wort boiling.
	I just broke out my big mother new burner, and at anything near
	full chat, the entire bottom of the pot glows cherry red.  Is
	there anything to worry about?  I backed off, and only the center
	six inches were red for the full boil.  Is there a place to stop?

Thanks...Gary

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Date:    Sun, 30 Jun 1991 0:17:56 EDT
From: D_KRUS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Daniel L. Krus)
Subject: RE:  US formulations of imported beers.

Bob makes reference to Beck's American beer being different than their 
European version.  I can personally attest to this.  My sister is a flight
attendant for NorthWest Airlines and she has brought me back a couple of 5L
kegs.  This beer is MUCH better than the American version.  It has much more
flavor and is much smoother, almost creamy.  European Beck's is a superb beer.

                                Dan

|**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:|
| Internet:    D_KRUS at unhh.unh.edu              | Daniel L. Krus               |
| Compuserve:  71601,365                        | Parsons Hall                 |
|-----------------------------------------------| Department of Chemistry      |
|  "A good word is an easy obligation, but not  | U of New Hampshire           |
|  to speak ill, requires only our              | Durham, New Hampshire  03824 |
|  silence, which costs us nothing."  Tillotson | (603) 862-2521               |
|**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:**:|

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #670, 07/01/91
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