HOMEBREW Digest #671 Tue 02 July 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  brewpubs in New York City (Marc Light)
  #667 truncations. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Lambic experiment update (Mike Sharp)
  US/Canadian beers, good wishes for the summer. (R. Bradley)
  hop flavor (WJW2)
  Water Treatment for Lagers (John Polstra)
  Aphids aphids everywhere and not a hop to drink (Norm Hardy)
  Zymurgy  at  3AM, Harvesting Hops (hersh)
  Zymurgy  at  3AM, Harvesting Hops (hersh)
  Hops for Sierra Nevada PA (Ken Ellinwood)
  Re: Beer Tastes (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Cornell Homebrewers (Tom Dimock)

Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com [Please do not send me requests for back issues] Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 01 Jul 91 03:19:02 -0400 From: Marc Light <light at cs.rochester.edu> Subject: brewpubs in New York City I'm sure this request has been made before but I didn't save the answer (sorry): could someone send me a list of the brew pubs and breweries in New York City? I seem to remember a pub named Brewsky's that was highly recommended. Does it still exist? Thanks. Marc Return to table of contents
Date: 1 Jul 91 07:35:00 EDT From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil> Subject: #667 truncations. Did anyone ever get a complete copy of issue #667? I've checked both the Miami and the Wang servers and several other digesters and all received a truncated copy. If anyone got a complete copy, please send it to me and I'll be happy to redistribute it to others who wish it. Thanks very much in advance to any kind soul who has this complete copy. Dan Graham Beer made with the Derry air. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 7:35:37 EDT From: msharp at hawk.ulowell.edu (Mike Sharp) Subject: Lambic experiment update Hello All, I heard from Martin Lodhal that some of you have been wondering about the lambic experiments. So here goes... Currently there are three test batches. I've made two and Martin has made one. Test Batch #1 -- Started back in January. This is 60%malt 40%malted wheat fermented in a 15 gallon oak primary and a 15 gallon oak secondary. This was innoculated with Wyeast bavarian wheat (it seemed like the thing to do at the time) followed by Pediococcus cerevisiae and then Brettanomyces bruxellensis. Test Batch #2 -- Started about 1 (2?) months ago. Again, a 60%/40% mix, but fermented in glass this time. Wyeast European was used for the ferment, followed by Pedio and Brett as with #1. Martin's batch -- ummm, I'm not sure what he did... probably something simmilar. He'll have to tell you when he gets back from vaccation. A few weeks before the conference (AHA) I made a pseudo-gueuze by blending my two test batches 50/50. It is currently a redish-golden-wierd color. Sort of like a light honey with just a hint of red. Carbonation is extremely slight, but its been increasing as the Brett. works at what is left of the fermentables. The nose is mostly of oak, but not unpleasantly so. The taste is a combination of oak, lactic acid, and a sort of subtle fruityness. There is a subtle hint of hops (if you look for it) as well as a slight malty flavor too. There isn't any one dominant flavor, many different ones. I think this turned out remarkable well given (a) a new oak barrel and (b) having almost no clue about making this when I started. Of course this really won't be ready for a year or so, but its already showing promise. I can hardly wait to start the next batches given the result of these batches. I should be adding some Moreno cherries to a few gallons of test batch #1 in a week or two, and once my _28_ gallon brewery is functional (gloat) I'll be back to using the cask. (it took me 20 straight hours the last time I made a batch in the cask -- I'm a fanatic, but not crazy enough to do that again). As for the tasting at the conference, I think it went very well. You'd be hard pressed (I was) to assemble that many lambics/flanders browns outside of Belguim. The final lineup was Liefman's Goudenband, Timmerman's Kriek & Framboise, St. Louis Gueuze, Mort Subite Kriek, Alexander Rodenbach (the 150 aniversary beer, not the gran cru), Lindeman's Framboise, homemade gueuze from Mike Matucheski, homebrew kriek-substance from Charlie Papazian, assorted trappists from Darryl Richman (I think), and probably a few others I'm forgetting. Both tastings lasted about 2 hours, proceded at a rather relaxed pace, and were very informal. Pictures of Cantillon (thanks to Martin) were passed about. The list of reservations reads like a HBD,CI$,AHA whos-who. I think we need to do this again next year... (it was interesting to see how many of the 'good people' I pulled away from the openning ceremonies) Current cultures for making lambics: (I'm keeping them) Pediococcus cerevisiae Brettanomyces bruxellensis & lambicus Saccaromyces globosus I have two others, but they're not going anywhere until I figure out if they're `safe'. I'll be experementing with a line of 'Belgian kits' sometime soon. A supplier at the conference told me about them & will hopefully be shipping me a few for testing. I'm particularly interested in if (& how) they have the same lactic acid character, or if they result in just a standard fruit ale. Stay tuned for more info. Finally, every month or so I create a 'best of' collection of lambic notes that appeared on my mailing list. For those of you who want to keep up w/o the daily junk-mail this might be a viable route. Note that I have two such 'best of's at the moment (a third is due) and each is about 800 lines. - --Mike Sharp (lambic fanatic, and lambic mailing list `founder') msharp at cs.ulowell.edu -- for personal mail lambic at cs.ulowell.edu -- for the lambic mailing list lambic-request@ cs.ulowell.edu -- for add/remove/administrata Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 08:23 EST From: STROUD%GAIA at sdi.polaroid.com Subject: HBD Please add me to the mailing list for Homebrew Digest. Thanks. Steve Stroud Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 11:24:11 CDT From: bradley at dehn.math.nwu.edu (R. Bradley) Subject: US/Canadian beers, good wishes for the summer. Happy Canada Day, fellow homebrewers! I'm about to sign off the list for the summer: vacation, conferences, moving. I'll be sure to get back on after Labour Day. The first 14 months has been great; I look forward to many, many more. On the subject of US beers in Canada and vice versa: Canadian main-line beers are almost comically consistent: 5% alcohol by volume and a FG of 1010, no matter who makes 'em and what they're called. This means that they start at 1048 or so and we may ball-park the *real* residual extract at 40%. Needless to say, you need a *few* hops to balance that much sugar. Even a beer like Blue - a sop to the contemporary palate, being about 1/3 adjunct (legend puts it as high as 4/9!) and relatively sweet - has been hopped to an extent you wouldn't find in Miller or Bud. Therefore, Canadian Miller and Bud, which are brewed under licence, are very little like the original, as they match typical Canadian specs. Did I hear some innocent soul ask why they would bother to brew beer named Miller or Bud that's nothing like the original number? Simple: for a modest licence fee, the Canadian breweries cash in on decades of American beer commercials which we Canucks have watched on cable. Canadian beers in the US, on the other hand, are imports. I won't promise that the Blue and Golden we get down here is exactly the same as the stuff in Canada, but Moosehead is typically Canadian - 5%, 1010 and a fair hop bite. (Caveat: beers brewed by the big Canadian brewers are often sufficiently bitter, but virtually never have decent flavour/aroma characteristics.) Moosehead segues nicely into the province-to-province trade issue. I grew up in Quebec and lived for 8 years in Ontario. I never tasted Moosehead until I moved to Chicago. 9 Canadian provinces (tiny Prince Edward Island is the exception) have a simple law - brew your beer here or it will be treated like Becks and Newkie Brown: an import, available only in provincial liquor stores. This is just one example of the sort of inefficiency built into the Canadian economy by decades of pork-barrel politics aimed at keeping as many workers in the "regions" of Canada as possible, instead of flooding to the big urban centers. The result is that even a beer like Blue, which is available everywhere, is brewed in different provinces with different water, different brewing kettles, different size batches, and so on. Moosehead, BTW, is brewed in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick and apparently sells better in the US than in Canada. A closing note for residents of/visitors to Ontario. According to the brewmaster at Molson's Toronto brewery in '88 (maybe '87), Molson's was the only brewer selling 100% malt beers at regular prices. They make 4 all-malt brews: Lowenbrau (under licence) and Porter (decent sweet stout) are premium-priced, but Molson Stock Ale and Export Light are regular priced. Export Light is a misnomer - it should be called Stock Light, as it's the dilute formulation of Molson Stock Ale. At 4%/vol and 1010 with a good hop bite, it's a reasonable alternative to the usual mind-numbing 5% stuff we Canadians grew up swilling. Molson Stock Ale - 5% and 1012 with real bitterness - is just about the last example of a Canadian traditional ale, the sort of thing 'real' Canadians drank until the 1960s. Even IPA has now been yuppied up. The foregoing is not meant to imply that the big breweries are the whole story. Ontario has provided fertile ground for micros and brewpubs, ranging from the excellent to the atrocious, over the past few years. I'll drink a few pints of Wellington County (they make real ale a la CAMRA, available in pubs only) and sup some Brick and Upper Canada while I'm home, but the case of beer in my trunk when I cross the border will be Molson Stock Ale. Have a great summer, Rob Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 13:49 EDT From: WJW2 at PSUVM.PSU.EDU Subject: hop flavor regarding tom's (nolan at lheavx.dnet.nasa.gov) request for info on tastes. I feel its important when considering beer taste, but not often said out loud to beginners, to understand the difference between 'bitterness' and hop flavor. hops, depending on how you use them, can add either. beers can be very bitter but not taste like hops (but the bitterness is from the hops). taste any english bitter for a bitter taste. for hop flavor- try spaten! H.d. at penn state. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 11:34:49 PDT From: polstra!jdp at uunet.UU.NET (John Polstra) Subject: Water Treatment for Lagers In HBD #670, baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu (Kinney Baughman) had plenty of interesting stuff to say (I loved the technique for emptying a carboy), but I am responding here to his comments about water treatment: > Adjust your water according to beer you're trying to make. In general, > soft water for lagers. Hard water for English type ales. This is the common wisdom and it's what I used to do, too. But further study has convinced me that "soft water for lagers" is bad advice. (Actually, what is usually advised is "soft water for *pale* lagers," and I'll assume that's what Kinney really meant.) Where does this idea come from? It seems to stem from the following line of reasoning: 1. The greatest pale lagers in the world come from Pilsen. 2. The water in Pilsen is extremely soft. 3. Therefore, soft water should be used for pale lagers. Makes sense, eh, so what's wrong here? What is wrong is that this line of reasoning does not take into account the brewing *process* that is used in Pilsen. It turns out that the brewers of Pilsen were not able to brew good pale lagers until 1842, when they first began using an acid rest during the mash to compensate for their soft water. [1] The acid rest is a rest at around 95 degrees F which is done before the protein rest. As its name implies, the acid rest has the effect of lowering the pH of the mash. It is necessary in Pilsen only because the water is so soft there. If the water had the proper level of calcium ions in it (and not too much carbonate) then the pH would settle out at a good value on its own. You're not going to get the best results in making a pale lager with soft water unless you either add an acid rest to your mash schedule or treat the water appropriately to bring the calcium level up. In my opinion, treating the water is a whole lot easier and more reliable. The key to treating soft water is getting the calcium level up to 50-100 parts per million. This will (again, assuming you don't have a lot of carbonate ions in your water) cause the mash pH to be correct and will make an astounding difference in the amount of extract you get from a given amount of grain. It will also shorten the starch conversion time by an amazing amount. Consider the following table from [2], which describes five mashes with identical ingredients except for the water treatment: CaSO4 CaCO3 pH Conversion Time 0 0 5.95 45 0 50 6.15 60 125 0 5.65 15 250 0 5.35 10 125 50 5.75 30 Here, concentrations of CaSO4 (gypsum) and CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) are given in parts per million, and conversion times are given in minutes. The article goes on to state: These examples show how strongly the composition of the brewing water affects the mash. Similar results have been reported for commercial brews, however, the conversion times tend to be lower than those reported in Table 1 ... Conversion times of 20 minutes are considered bad in commercial brewing since they can yield unpredictable carbohydrate profiles. Those who are used to doing 2-hour mashes, take note! By the way, 125 ppm of CaSO4 adds 29 ppm of calcium to the water, while 250 ppm of CaSO4 adds 58 ppm of calcium. I started systematically treating my brewing water about nine months ago, and I have noticed a real improvement in extract efficiency. Brews that used to take 10 lbs. of grain now need only a little over 8 lbs. Mash conversion times have dropped noticeably, as well. I generally use a mix of gypsum and calcium chloride to treat my ultra-soft Seattle water. When I want to accentuate the hops, I use more gypsum and less calcium chloride; when I want a softer or sweeter flavor, I shift the balance in the other direction. In any case, I make sure that the total calcium ends up in the 50-100 ppm range. Enough of my rambling. Here are the references: [1] Dave Miller, "The Complete Handbook of Home Brewing," p. 114. [2] George Fix, "Quality Control in Small-Scale Brewing," in "Beer and Brewing," volume 6, Brewers Publications, Boulder, page 138. John Polstra polstra!jdp at uunet.uu.net Polstra & Co., Inc. ...!uunet!polstra!jdp Seattle, Washington USA (206) 932-6482 "Self-knowledge is always bad news." -- John Barth Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 91 10:54:12 PDT From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy) Subject: Aphids aphids everywhere and not a hop to drink Here in the summer(?) of wet Seattle, my hops are slowly growing. But, the aphids grow even faster. Here is what I have tried, but I would like to hear how others' are dealing with pests: Although I have used Diazinon to kill the suckers (and lady bugs too), I prefer softer methods. Lately I have been setting the garden hose on stun (spray) and manually knocking the aphids (and spider mites) off the leaves. Not only is it a wet process, but lengthy as the foliage on the Herzbruchers is extensive (some leaves are 12 inches across the longest span). But it works, on the short term as I have to do it again two days later. Most of the problem is located on the back side of the leaves. My botanical neighbor purchased a bag of 1500 lady bugs for her garden, and some naturally came over to check out the hops. But they appear to have flown away home. Lace flies are also trying to eat the aphids but they don't appear to put a dent in the supply. They merely tell me where the concentrations are. Any other HBD hop growers out there want to share? Norm Hardy Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 91 14:26:53 EDT From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Zymurgy at 3AM, Harvesting Hops Now Kinney, if you ask Darryl he'll tell you that I absorbed quite a lot of his article, considering I read it mostly with my eyes 1/2 closed. BTW If you and Gerg Noonan hadn't have shown up I'd have been asleep then instead :-) !! Hey folks, I just moved into Steve Stroud's former residence and inherited his hop plants. They have flowers on them, some quite sizeable, and I'm wondering about harvesting them. What should I look for to know when to harvest them?? Any special technique, or is just pulling them off OK?? Will the vines continue to flower throughout the season or do they flower just once?? Any tips/advice here is much appreciated. - JaH Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 91 15:39:22 EDT From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Zymurgy at 3AM, Harvesting Hops Now Kinney, if you ask Darryl he'll tell you that I absorbed quite a lot of his article, considering I read it mostly with my eyes 1/2 closed. BTW If you and Gerg Noonan hadn't have shown up I'd have been asleep then instead :-) !! Hey folks, I just moved into Steve Stroud's former residence and inherited his hop plants. They have flowers on them, some quite sizeable, and I'm wondering about harvesting them. What should I look for to know when to harvest them?? Any special technique, or is just pulling them off OK?? Will the vines continue to flower throughout the season or do they flower just once?? Any tips/advice here is much appreciated. - JaH - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ assume that you are moderate in everything. you now have an excess of moderation, a contradiction. excessiveness is clearly the way to go... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 11:39:56 PDT From: aimla!ruby!ken at uunet.UU.NET (Ken Ellinwood) Subject: Hops for Sierra Nevada PA Does anyone know what varieties and proportions of hops are used to brew Sierra Nevada Pale Ale? A friend and I are interested in brewing a copy-cat version. Thanks in advance, Ken Ellinwood ken at aimla.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 91 16:32:39 mdt From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: Re: Beer Tastes Tom writes: >Paul Schmidt asks about examples of commercial >beers with specific tastes; he mentions "hoppy", "sweet", "estery". Here's >a couple of suggestions: > >hoppy - Samuel Adams Lager is amazing. It's like sticking your head > in a hops basket. Try drinking it straight from the bottle. > I don't know, it must shoot the hops right up your nose. I agree, but would be more specific and say Sam Adams Lager has a *lot* of hop *bouquet* AND quite a bit of hop flavor. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale also has quite a big hop nose and taste. Anchor Liberty Ale has quite a bit of hop flavor/bitterness but a little less hop nose (if I remember correctly). I'd also like to add that, in my opinion, the 1990 Sam Adams Christmas beer (I forget the actual name) was just as hoppy in nose and palate but had a bit more maltiness -- a more well balanced beer than the Boston Lager. I wish it would be available year-round. >sweet - Any of the scotch ales, like McEwans. They're apparently brewed > with crippled yeast to produce sweet diacetyl flavors. The > only trouble is finding a fresh bottle. McEwans in particular > is in clear glass and tends to go off. If I recall correctly, I get my McEwans (Scotch Ale and Export) in brown bottles (Chicago Metro Area). I would add Sheaf Stout (by Tooth's) to sweet beers and Mackeson's XXX Stout is also pretty sweet. Compare to Guiness Extra Stout which is a dry stout (especially in the bottle -- note that Guiness on Draft is a very different beer than in the bottle). I would recommend Samuel Smith's Pale Ale for diacetyl flavor, but it's not as sweet as the beers mentioned above. >estery - Anchor Liberty Ale is very fruity for a commercial > beer. This is typical for an "ale" style but still strange to > the American palate, if there is such a thing. The fruitiest beer I've ever tasted is Orval Trappiste Ale. A cross between banana and (forgive me) bubble gum. I've heard that, on one occasion, a person got a hold of a very bad bottle of Orval. If it tastes awful, you got one too. Finally, I would like to dispute Paul's contention that Molson Golden is a hoppy beer. Paul-- once you try Sam Adams, Liberty Ale, and SNPA, you may feel compelled to write a retraction ;^), but you don't have to. Here's to beer with flavor! (I'll drink to that!) Al. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 91 20:49:29 EDT From: Tom Dimock <RGG at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu> Subject: Cornell Homebrewers In HBD #670 Kinney Baughman remarks "The Cornell site must have more homebrewers per site than any other node on the net." Probably true, and I just wanted to give a little credit to those responsible. Steve Russell ("primary fermenter"), Dwight Beebe ("chief brewing fool"), and the rest of the membership of the IBU make it hard to NOT be a homebrewer. You walk into the Chapter House on IBU meeting night (either on purpose or by accident) and here are 30 or so loud and lively people who have brought their own beers to a bar with some of the best brews available! Not only that, but the owners are enthusiastically participating, rather than chasing them out or calling the police. Showing the slightest bit of interest gets you a fast intro to the art of homebrewing (complete with samples), a trial subscription to their excellent newsletter, and an offer of an experienced brewer to help you through your first batch! It also didn't hurt that at my first meeting the guest of honor was no less than Michael Jackson! Well, you might be able to walk away at that point, but then you start getting E-mail from Steve about everything from upcoming IBU events to blowing up dead whales with half a ton of dynamite. And every time you go into the Chapter House James or Laurie Clement or someone from the club wants to know how you're doing.... Next thing you know, there's five gallons of brew bubbling away in the kitchen, and the HBD has become the high point of your working day. So thanks, IBU, for getting me into this; I'm looking forward to sharing my attempts and helping get someone else into this silly sport! Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #671, 07/02/91 ************************************* -------
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