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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  zymurgy (Y-word) (TSAMSEL)
  Book on A-Busch (TSAMSEL)
  re Mackeson's Stout (GARY MASON  08-Jul-1991 0755)
  ACK!  It won't stop! (Dave Beedle)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #674 (July 08, 1991) (Christopher M Mauritz)
  decoction mashing (mcnally)
  brewing English bitter (Brian Smithey)
  yet another request for brew pub locations (Shannon Torrey)
  Corsendonk  (Carl West x4449)
  `T' aeration  (Carl West x4449)
  Automated Subscriptions (hersh)
  Liberty Ale? ("William F. Pemberton")
  stouts (Brian Bliss)
  Bay Area homebrew clubs (Ken Johnson)
  St. Louis--Need Info on Good Bars and BrewPubs (stuart mennitt)
  wheat beer (extract) (Mike Lang)
  BREW PUBlications (C.R. Saikley)
  faucet aspirators (braumeister)
  Power Brew? (Bob Fozard)
  Re: Oregon Micro-breweries beer fest (Brian Capouch)
  off flavors (mike_schrempp)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1991 6:49:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV
Subject: zymurgy (Y-word)

  I may have been blind to this, but has ZYMURGY gone completely yuppie? I got
their summer issue and....
  Well, I'd just like to know if I'm just being a codger (yikes! ageism!!) or
if my perceptual abilities are still as KEEN as ever. Please, their recipe for
barbecue sauce is like candy. But then there is no regional barbecue E-mail
forum.
  Ted

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Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1991 7:00:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV
Subject: Book on A-Busch

  I havn't had a chnace to read this yet but there is a new book out called,
(I believe) UNDER THE INFLUENCE. It's about Augie Busch and family and how
American  beer was changed. It's history and puts A-B in a not so good light.
(So what's new?)
  Also, I'm going up to Maine in August and would like names and approximate locations
of brewpubs, beerstores in Albany, S. VT, S. NH, and ME. 
  Ted

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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 07:57:25 -0400
From: mason at habs11.ENET.DEC.COM (GARY MASON 08-Jul-1991 0755)
Subject: re Mackeson's Stout

I have never been able to find two bottles of any brews imported in lesser 
quantities to be the same.  I have long since given up on even attempting to 
determine their true characteristics from imported bottles.  That was true 
of Mackeson's as well - I had them in Atlanta earlier this year.  I would 
not base my judgement on these random tastings.

Cheers...Gary

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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 8:42:49 CDT
From: dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Dave Beedle)
Subject: ACK!  It won't stop!

     Hi all!  I've got a batch of ginger beer in that I'm beginning to be
concerned about.  I pitch on the 15th of June and it's still bubbling through
the fermentation lock!  I did try rehydrating the yeast in some water (I think
I added some sugar as well) then pitching.  The stuff never did take off as it
has in the past and the activity in the carboy has been pretty slow (compared
to my past batches).  What is going on?  Is there something in ginger which
contributes to slow fermentations?  Any tips?

TTFN

- --
  Dave Beedle                                     Office of Academic Computing
                                                     Illinois State University
  Internet:  dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu                     136A Julian Hall
    Bitnet:  dbeedle at ilstu.bitnet                           Normal, Il   61761

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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 10:06:22 EDT
From: Christopher M Mauritz <cmm1 at cunixa.cc.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #674 (July 08, 1991)

Unsubscribe

- --------------+----------------------------------------------------------
Chris Mauritz | Cuba's *superior* human rights record is only part of the
              | answer; it's superior social conditions are another.
- --------------|        -Harel Barzilai-

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Date: Mon, 08 Jul 91 08:19:34 -0700
From: mcnally at Pa.dec.com
Subject: decoction mashing


I picked up Greg Noonan's "Brewing Lager Beer" over the weekend, primarily
to get more information on water treatment.  The most interesting thing so
far about the book is the staunch stand he takes on the benefits of 
decoction mashing vis-a-vis infusion mashing.  As an infusion masher, I'm
seriously intrigued.  I'd like to hear something from people who've done 
both.

One thing I don't quite understand (I haven't read the whole book yet) is
the exact procedure for boiling the decoctions.  It seems to me that the
thick part of the mash won't really boil, but will sort of splutter and 
spurt wads of wet grain all over the place.  What sort of consistancy
should the boiled portions have?

The book is extremely informative.  It seems to me to stand in 
relationship to TCHoHB as TCHoHB stands to Papazian; it's pretty heavy
stuff.  Excellent description of the chemical properties of cleaners, by
the way.

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike McNally                                           mcnally at wsl.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation
Western Software Lab

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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 08:16:52 PDT
From: smithey at esosun.css.gov (Brian Smithey)
Subject: brewing English bitter

For those of you who have tried "brewing beers like those you
can't buy in North Anerica", and have been put off by Dave Line's
use of funny sugars, or confused/discouraged trying to substitute
lactose (or anything else) for the saccharine, I think a friend
and I have stumbled across the secret:  use REAL English Crystal
Malt.  Rick (rolson at sea.com) and I recently brewed up a batch of
bitter based on the recipe for Tetley's Bitter in Line's BBLTYB
for Rick's wedding reception, and it came out with a nice residual
sweetness that reminded us both very much of the Double Diamond
that we've had on tap at a local pub.  We've both used lots of
domestic crystal in the past, up to 2 pounds in a 5 gal batch,
and I've messed around with lactose, and never had results like
we got in this batch with only .5# English crystal.

The recipe for this low-gravity bitter was very simple: English
Pale Ale malt, English Crystal, a little wheat malt for head
retention (this beer had a beautiful creamy-white head), Fuggles
for bittering and a late addition of Bramling Cross for flavor/aroma.
Maybe Rick will provide the quantities when he gets back from his
honeymoon in a couple of weeks, he kept the records on this one.

For those who can't find real English crystal malt, all of the
ingredients for this batch were purchased mail-order from Great
Fermentations of Santa Rosa.  They're listed in the "Cat's Meow"
supplier index, and advertise in Zymurgy, etc.

Brian
- --
Brian Smithey / SAIC, Geophysics Division / San Diego CA
smithey at esosun.css.gov  -  uunet!seismo!esosun!smithey

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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 08:36:36 PDT
From: shannon at eir.css.gov (Shannon Torrey)
Subject: yet another request for brew pub locations


Hi, I've been reading the digest for several months now and
while I haven't yet made any beer (I make mead and liqueurs 
currently), I have developed a taste for brew pubs.  I'll
be driving from south-west Connecticut to Boston, then up
to Maine and over to Nova Scotia for vacation late this week.
I would like to know of any brew pub places that might be fun
to visit along that route. 

Thanks for your time,

Shannon Torrey

PS.  I notice that there are quite a lot of these requests.
Is there, or has any one given thought to compiling a list
of brew pubs from old homebrew-digests?

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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 11:27:34 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West x4449)
Subject: Corsendonk 


It appears that I have successfully cultured the yeast from a bottle of 
Corsendonk Monk's Brown Ale. Anybody know anything about this yeast? 
Guessing by the ale itself (which is very good, if a little sweet), it's 
an estery, non-attenuative yeast. 

Anything else I ought to know about Corsendonk?

- --Carl

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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 11:26:35 EDT
From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West x4449)
Subject: `T' aeration 


It seems that if you're going to try to introduce filtered air into your 
cooled wort through a `T' fitting you would do well to *pump* the air in. 
Which calls out a problem with the idea. If you put the `T' fitting too 
far up the siphon hose, the air leaking in will tend to break the siphon. 
The `T' should be lower than the bottom of the source vessel. Then, if you 
want enough suction to draw alot of air through a filter and into the wort 
you'll need a fair drop in the hose after the `T', I suspect that 10 or 12 
feet will not be enough. This is becoming a two-story operation. Pumping 
the air will solve the suction and height problem, but it makes the 
siphoning problem somewhat worse, the `T' will have to be put even lower in 
the hose to keep the added air pressure from backing the siphon up. Pumping 
the wort would fix the siphoning problem, but if you pump the wort, you *must* 
pump the air. How much equipment do you want to have?

- --Carl

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Date: Mon, 08 Jul 91 12:32:28 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Automated Subscriptions


It is possible to automate subscription requests.
I will pass along to Rob the appropriate info.

 - JaH


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Date:     Mon Jul  8 12:45:18 1991
From: "William F. Pemberton" <wfp5p at euclid.acc.virginia.edu>
Subject:  Liberty Ale?


This weekend I tasted Anchor's Liberty Ale on tap for the first time and
was MOST impressed.  Super hops!  Now, does anyone happen to have
a recipe that comes close to Liberty Ale?

Thanks!
Bill

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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 12:52:53 CDT
From: bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: stouts


> I thought Mackison was supposed to be a "sweet" stout.  It was sort of
> sweet, and that was just fine.  My problem was with the aftertaste, one
> that was reminiscent of fermented raisins ... or was it prunes ...
> Needless to say, I found the aftertaste unpleasant.  Did I get a bad
> bottle, or is that a correct taste.  What contributes to that strong after
> taste?  How do I keep from duplicating it?

It could be underhopped, or possibly too much crystal malt, or both.

I now add 1/4 to 1/2 oz. finishing hops (hallertauer, or cascade in a pinch)
to my stouts to make a nice "hmm - I think I'll take another drink" finish.
To me, this is especially important when making a sweet stout, where
the sweetness remains on the palate - it won't fade without the
finishing hops.

bb

P.S. Isn't it spelled "Mackeson", or is that a different company
that makes the scottish ale? (not that it isn't practically a stout)


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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 11:22:46 PDT
From: kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson)
Subject: Bay Area homebrew clubs

Anyone belong to a Berkeley or S.F. brewing club?  San Andres Malts?

kj

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Date: 8 Jul 91 14:28 EDT
From: smennitt at oasys.dt.navy.mil (stuart mennitt)
Subject: St. Louis--Need Info on Good Bars and BrewPubs

A friend of mine is relocating to St. Louis (Bud City).  She has asked
if there are any brewpubs in the city.  Also any particularly good bars
would be appreciated.  Is there a "strip" in St. Louis suitable for
a good beer Pub Crawl?  Thanks in advance.  Stu Mennitt.

- -------

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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 12:11:03 MDT
From: mike at chtm.unm.edu (Mike Lang)
Subject: wheat beer (extract)

In HBD #674 David Sylvester asks:
>> Is the entire 6lbs of extract too much for a wheat beer? 
I would say no, the wheat beer I had in germany was pretty thick.

These are my last two attempts at wheat beer, they may not be 
traditional but I liked them.

6#'s Wheat/Malt extract
1# honey
3 cups crystal
1# DME
2oz Haulertau Boil 1 hr
1/2 oz Haulertau finish 2 mins
cooled overnight outside
rack to new carboy next day and pitch wyeast Bavarian Wheat

This one turned out good.  Light amber color, a bit on the sweet side 
and I can taste a hint of clove.  The next one I tried to make a little 
lighter with more hops

6# Wheat/Malt extract
1# honey
3 cups crystal
20z Tetanger (alpha 3.6) boil 1 hr
1/2 oz tet to finish 2 mis
cooled overnight outside, rack and repitch slurry from previous batch

This ones a little lighter, I was expecting a big difference in the 
hop taste and aroma but the difference was very slight.  Maybe there were 
too many fermentables to let the hop taste through.  Both brews have a good 
kick (sorry about the lack of gravities but I brewed during finals week.)

The wheat malt extract was 60/40 mix from Alternative Beverage,
the bulk stuff that comes in a jug.

	Hope that helps,
 
- ---------- Real brewers drink the sludge at the bottom of the bottle ----------
Mike Lang					
System Manager (computer guy)			mike at chtm.unm.edu
Center for High Technology Materials		(505)-277-3317  (x0770)
University of New Mexico

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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 12:20:10 PDT
From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: BREW PUBlications

In HBD670, Kinney Baughman listed several beer related periodicals.
The address for the Celebrator was given as :

>The California Celebrator Beer News
>4747 Hopyard Rd. Suite 100
>Pleasanton, CA 94566

The address was changed about one year ago. The new address is :

Celebrator Beer News
PO Box 375
Hayward, CA  94541
415-670-0121

In addition to the publications listed, there are a couple others worth
noting. There is the "Rocky Mountain Brews News" which I think is based
in Fort Collins, CO. There is also the "Northwest Journal of Beer" based
in Seattle.


On a related note, we will soon be publishing an edition of the Celebrator
that highlights the brew scene in the Rocky Mountain states. If there are
any HBD-ers in that region who would like to contribute articles to the 
Celebrator, we would welcome your input. Brewpub reviews, homebrewing 
activities, or whatever; anything pertinent and publishable is fair game.
Of course I can't guarantee that all submissions will get published, but all 
will be considered. Interested parties please respond via email.

TIA,

CR Saikley
Associate Editor - Celebrator Beer News
Usenet : grumpy!cr

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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 09:58:45 EDT
From: wolfe at zeus.WEC.COM (braumeister)
Subject: faucet aspirators

Regarding the devices you have all seen in chemistry labs in high school
and college. They are faucet aspirators.  They are designed to draw a vacuum
on the side port when water flows through them.  The limit of the vacuum
is determined by the vapor pressure of the cold water stream. [about 24-26 
inches of Hg].  A water pressure of  at 17psi gauge is required to start 
aspiration.  They will act as aerators if the side port is not constrained.
I moonlight as chemist/analyst for a micro brewery and have access to
lab supply houses.  A nylon version (no temperature rating) model is available
for $12.50US, lab grade stainless for $37 and chrome plated brass at 19.50.
Shipping time is about 2 weeks.  (Most chemical supply houses will not sell to
individuals, only to schools and labs because of previous law suits.)
			
			jim, drinker of homebrew

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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 9:18:10 PDT
From: rfozard at slipknot.pyramid.com (Bob Fozard)
Subject: Power Brew?


I read an article in the San Jose Mercury News this weekend that
discussed a new product from Heilman's (sp?).  The reason it was
getting attention was because 1), it is allegedly being marketed
at lower income minorities, and 2), it's name breaks some US
regulation against allowing beer to have names that imply extra
strength (Power, Super, etc.).  I dont recall what this particular
new brew is called, but was curious to note that the article stated
that it's actually against the law to label the alcohol content on
beer in the US.  This is apparently to protect us from ourselves,
as we would squander our dollars on the most powerful stuff without
considering flavor :-).  Incidently, Heilman's is dropping the 
product.

- -- 
bob fozard      rfozard at pyramid.com


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Date: Mon,  8 Jul 91 15:35:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU>
Subject: Re: Oregon Micro-breweries beer fest

If any of you out there might happen to have any information about this
fest, which was alluded to in yesterday's HBD, I'd be much obliged for
some pointers. 

While I'm on the subject, I'm heading out to Seattle/Northern Oregon,
and don't want to miss anything "important" in the way of homebrewing,
microbrewing, or brewpubs.  Could any of you out there give me pointers
about what simply shouldn't be missed. 

If you think the group would be uninterested, please email me personally. 

Thanks in advance. 

Brian Capouch
brianc at saintjoe.edu

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Date:         8 Jul 91 14:55 -0700
From: mike_schrempp%42 at hp4200.desk.hp.com
Subject:     off flavors

I've got a question about off flavors, but first a clarification on my mashing
technique. I put all the contents of my picnic cooler into the boiler to raise
the temperature, not just the liquid.

Now on to questions:

I made a dry stout (Miller's recipe) and have been getting a very strange
off flavor. I have two suspected culprits. First is Chlorine contamination from
not enough rinsing, the second is too warm a fermentation temperature. At first
I suspected chlorine, because I classified the flavor as "medicine-like" but now
I don't know. After bottling (the flavor was there at the end of the ferment)
the flavor seems to be stronger. I didn't use any bleach in the bottles, so the
chance for this flavor to develop more strongly isn't there.

High temperature fermentation is suspected because it was very hot when the
beer fermented.

My question is, I want to taste a chlorine problem and a high temperature
ferment. Can I add a drop (or less) of chlorox to a bottle of beer and then
taste? Can anyone recommend a medicine I can buy at the drug store that has
that classic "medicine-like" flavor? To taste warm fermentation, do I need to
fermetn a hopped wort, or can I ferment a corn sugar and water solution to
isolate the yeast flavors? Are the higher order fermentables needed to get all
the yeast produced flavors? Has anyone tried this? If I don't get any response,
I'll try it and post the results.

Parting shot: I've really enjoyed reading the exploits of the conference
attendees, particularly about the "Cornell contingent". Being an alumnus from
the old times (before the drinking age was raised to 21 in NY), I was afraid
that the party had gone out of the school.

Mike Schrempp '80 (it's a date, not one of those cute pictures)


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #675, 07/09/91
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