HOMEBREW Digest #685 Tue 23 July 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Re: Homebrew Digest #683 (July 19, 1991) (Brad Isley)
  Stainless Steel Pots (John DeCarlo)
  mailing list? (Mike Zulauf)
  mailing list? (Mike Zulauf)
  bananas (mcnally)
  All Natural Soda Recipes (bob)
  Darryl who?? Hop Harvest (hersh)
  DeClerck on dextrin body ("Peter Karp")
  T-shirt trick (Carl West)
  aluminum v stainless  (Carl West)
  Culturing Yeast (MC2331S)
  "stainless" pots... (Michael Zentner)
  Request: recipes for Bridge Port Ale and Pilsner Urquell (Dave Brown)
  Q; Rec. for pot lids? (bobc at wings.Eng - Bob Clark)
  Re: Aluminum vs SS (larryba)
  Flat beer (Rob Malouf)
  Ferromagnetism (korz)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #684 (July 22, 1991) ("One slip, and down the hole we fall")
  Sam Adams Wheat Brew. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Dry brew, cold filtered (Mike Fertsch)
  sterilizing water? (Craig Artley)
  Conditioning in tanks (fse)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Jul 91 9:14:32 EDT From: hpfcla!slammer!brad%emory.mathcs.emory.edu (Brad Isley) Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #683 (July 19, 1991) This is a retry... Please unsbscribe me from the list. Please subscribe my brother, emory!slammer!bagend!jan Thanx. Return to table of contents
Date: Monday, 22 Jul 1991 07:53:24 EDT From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Stainless Steel Pots Can anyone enlighten me on the use one could make of a magnet when looking for a stainless steel brewpot? I know the stainless steel pot I have now (only 5 gallons, alas), doesn't react to a magnet (the magnet won't stick). But it would surprise me to learn that a magnet sticks to aluminum pots. John "So, I am confused as to how you would use it." DeCarlo Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org) Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 91 19:50:12 -0600 From: Mike Zulauf <zulauf at orbit.Colorado.EDU> Subject: mailing list? To Whom It May Concern: I understand you run a homebrew mailing list. Please send me information or add my name to the list. Thank you. Mike Zulauf zulauf at orbit.colorado.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 91 19:52:49 -0600 From: Mike Zulauf <zulauf at orbit.Colorado.EDU> Subject: mailing list? To Whom It May Concern: I understand you run a homebrew mailing list. Please send me information or add my name to the list. Thank you. Mike Zulauf zulauf at orbit.colorado.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 91 11:04:25 -0700 From: mcnally at Pa.dec.com Subject: bananas I have begun sampling a batch that, like a couple before it, have a distinct banana aroma. Noonan blames this on ethyl acetate formed due to lack of oxygen in the early pre-fermentation phase. I'll be building one of those aerators (from some stiff plastic tubing) real soon now. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike McNally mcnally at wsl.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation Western Software Lab Return to table of contents
Date: Fri Jul 19 23:57:18 1991 From: semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET Subject: All Natural Soda Recipes Enclosed are some 'All Natural' soda recipes. There where some requests a few months ago for some such recipes. I felt inclined to send them to the digest for that reason and due to the fact that they seemed so homebrew like. To date I have not tried the recipes, but plan to run up a test batch of the Ginger Ale. Recipes from _Early American Life_, August 1975, Pg 12, titled _Making Your Own Soda Pop_, by Caroline Kitchen Riddle. I was presented this magazine while helping to clean old books and magazines from an elderly woman's porch. After a short explanation as to what specific article was contained in the magazine she said: "Oh Bob, make some ginger beer, I do *like* that stuff.". So here they are: Root Beer ========= 3 tablespoons ground sarsaparilla 1 tablespoon sassafras 1 heaping tablespoon hops 1/4 teaspoon ground coriander 2 gallons of water 1 1/2 cups honey 1/4 teaspoon wintergreen extract (Almost all natural) 1/4 teaspoon yeast Place the sarsaparilla, sassafras, hops, and coriander into an enameled or stainless steel pan. Cover them with water and bring to a boil. Reduce the heat and allow them to just barely simmer for 12 hours, making sure the water does not all evaporate. Strain out the solids and add the liquid to 2 gallons of water that has been boiled and cooled to lukewarm. Stir in the honey, wintergreen extract, and the yeast dissolved in 2/3 cup warm water. Stir the mixture thoroughly and allow it to mellow for several hours. You can then siphon off the root beer into a clean container before bottling, or fill the bottles immediately. Makes about two dozen 12-ounce bottles. Ginger Ale ========== 2 5/8 cups honey or 5 cups sugar 2 gallons water 3 beaten egg whites 1 tablespoon ginger, moistened with a little water Juice of 4 lemons 1/4 teaspoon yeast 1 whole lemon Dissolve the honey or sugar in 2 gallons water. Add the beaten egg whites and ginger. Bring to a boil and skim. Most of the flavor of the ginger will have been given out, so don't worry that you loose much of it in the skimming. Add the whole lemon and set the mixture aside to cool. When it is lukewarm, add the lemon juice and the yeast dissolved in 1/4 cup warm water. Stir well and let stand for a while for the sediment to settle to the bottom. Strain through a cloth into a clean container. Give it a few more minutes to settle and you are ready to bottle. The rest of the article goes into equipment, bottles, cleaning, siphoning, capping, fermentation, conditioning, ingredients, and exploding bottles. I won't repeat these points because they are all the same points brought out when learning to brew. I hope these recipes serve you well, and please do post any results to the digest. -- Bob Gorman Jake had a dream. It was his, -- -- bob at rsi.com the only real one he'd ever had, -- -- uunet!semantic!bob and he clung to it. ... -- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 11:15:22 EDT From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Darryl who?? Hop Harvest >Just who is Darryl Richman, anyway ? :-) Never heard of the guy :-) !! Well since I am going away for a bit (SIGGRAPH and a Grand Canyon hike) and a lot of my hops looked ready (as per Pete Sopers description of what that means), and I had to return the ladder I borrowed I decided ready or not to harvest my hops. Most of them seemed ready, some were just starting to brown out a little, Many were a little dry and papery, and when squeezed didn't spring back, so from what I understand they were probably ready. Anyway while I was up there trying not to fall off the ladder I noticed that a few leaves had been munched on, but lo and behold the cavalry was there. I spotted at least 2 lady bugs, a few spiders and a cricket (these eat other bugs right??), so it looks like the balance o nature was working for me here to keep nasties in check and protect my lovely hops. With a little luck I may get another harvest off these plants. Anyone ever use any manure, fertilizers, or other growth inducing agent on their hops?? If so what is good for the plants & good for the environment?? - JaH Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 91 14:19:00 EDT From: karp at unix1.cs.umass.edu ("Peter Karp") Subject: DeClerck on dextrin body I found a reference in DeClerck's Textbook of Brewing to the 'Dextrin Body' controversy. After reading it (text follows) I was surprised to discover that contrary to David Line's citing of DeClerck as a supporter of dextrin as the source of body (DeClerck uses the term 'mellow'), DeClerck has come to his own conclusions. From DeClerck (pg 262): Beers rich in dextrin are generally considered to have a more mellow palate and this is usually attributed to the greater viscosity of such beers compared with beers with a higher alcholic content. This view, however is quite erroneous. The author has made a series of mashes so as to obtain worts of differing dextrin content (12-15% difference in attenuation limit) and found that the beers brewed from these high dextrin worts lacked palate fulness. This result is probably due to the fact that raising the mashing temperature suddenly from 50 degC to 70 degC to suppress partially sugar formation, at the same time leads to a failure to form intermediate protein degradation products, as will be seen in the next paragraph. These intermediate protein degradation undoubtedly make a major contribution to palate fulness, nor must it be forgotten that the higher the dextrin content, the lower will be the concentration of alcohol, which is also a contributory factor to mellowness and palate. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 11:35:01 EDT From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West) Subject: T-shirt trick Sunday last week I started a batch. Since then we've been in the sweltering grippe of a heat wave (90-100). I don't have air conditioning or a Hunter Air-Stat for one of the extra fridges, so... I figured I'd try the T-shirt trick. I put three T-shirts one inside the other, wet them down, put them over the carboy (5 gal) and put the dressed carboy into a dish-washing pan. I then filled the pan near brim-full and propped a gallon jug, full of water, mouth down bubbler-style in the corner of the dishpan and strapped it to the carboy. This `system' went for three days on the gallon of water, all the while the T-shirts were wet or damp all the way to the top. CAVEAT: If a corner of the T-shirt (like a sleeve) hangs out over the side of the pan it will drip on the floor and make a fair size puddle. Tuck the sleeves in. -Carl Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 11:12:58 EDT From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West) Subject: aluminum v stainless If a magnet will stick to a pot it is not aluminum, but if it won't stick, you can't safely conclude that it is made of aluminum. There are (at least) two families of stainless steel, one of which is non-magnetic. If memory serves, the non-magnetic family is often used for cookware because of it's greater ductility. The surer way to test the pot's mettle* is to have at an inconspicuous corner with a pocket knife, if you can actually remove a small curl of metal, it is not stainless steel. -Carl *sorry, couldn't resist. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 10:38 CDT From: MC2331S at ACAD.DRAKE.EDU Subject: Culturing Yeast With all of the discussion going on about yeast I decided it was time to try culturing some myself. I bought the Ironmaster cider kit iin my (what now appears to be) life-quest for perfect cider (i.e. Strongbow). If this yeast works better than the M&F ale yeast that I have been using I'll want to keep some around. So question is, how do I do this? I would really appreciate a nice step-by-step (hopefully easy) way to allow me to keep this strain going. This is of course assuming that the cider is drinkable. Mark Castleman MC2331S at ACAD.DRAKE Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 11:10:39 -0500 From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Zentner) Subject: "stainless" pots... I thought I found quite a deal a while back on a "stainless" 10 gallon pot for about $70...very heavy duty, made by Wearever. I got the thing home, after being assured by several people at the store (even the buyer) that it was indeed SS, and decided to test how long it would take to boil 5 gallons on my stovetop. The pot discolored horribly, arousing suspicion. What I did first was, as many of you suggested, take a magnet to it...didn't stick. Not being sure about the alloy, I dug out my materials books and found that not all alloys known as SS have magnetic properties. This was confirmed by the fact that the magnet did not stick to my kitchen sink, which was labelled SS. I rigged up a measuring device to gage the width of the pot material. Measuring the dimensions of the closed cylinder and calculating the volume of metal involved vs the weight of the thing, it weighed about 1/3 of what the same volume of SS should weigh, which corresponded almost exactly to the density of Aluminum. I verified with a call to the manufacturer and got my money back. Since then, I bought the Polarware 10 gallon SS pot for $90 from Rapids Inc. This is a very nicely constructed pot. I had it out on my 165000 BTU burner last night for some moonlight brewing and have no doubts as to it's durability (iron grate was glowing red, but the pot transferred the heat nicely). I'd highly reccommend this pot to anyone considering spending more than $50. Another use for such a big pot...our group decided to make a strawberry mead one day and went out in the morning to pick fresh berries. We came out of there with 70 lbs in about an hour. Brews were popping, and we got a little carried away pureeing strawberries, ended up using about 30 lbs of berries and 16 lb of honey, having quite a large volume of material which undoubtedly would plug up an airlock on even a 7 gal carboy. So, we just let it cool down from the 170 F steeping temperature in the pot and carried out the primary in stainless. The thing wiped clean with no effort. Now, as to what we're going to do with such an outrageously high gravity mead, we haven't figured out yet....either a very sweet dessert wine or dilute it (or both). Mike Zentner Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 09:25:27 PDT From: brown at ocelot.llnl.gov (Dave Brown) Subject: Request: recipes for Bridge Port Ale and Pilsner Urquell My wife has decided that her two favorite beers are Bridge Port Ale and Pilsner Urquell. Since my wifes total beer consumtion last year was about 12 - 15 bottles, this new found interest in these beers is quite interesting. She's already bought about 2 or 3, 6 packs of Pilsn Urquell. Given the motivation, I need to find recipes for both of these beers, I'll be looking in Miller and Papazian, but I wanted to ask the rest of you on alt.beer.guru to send me any recipes that you might have for these scrumptious brewskies. Full mash is fine, I can mash about 9 pounds of grain at a time. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- David S. Brown | The Carboys brown at ocelot.llnl.gov | Lycanthrope Brewing, CCC CA .__ / .__ | HM(415) 625-1029 | \ \ |__) | WK(415) 423-9878 |__/ / |__) | beer at ocelot.llnl.gov FAX(415) 423-8002 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 09:52:33 PDT From: Bob.Clark at Eng.Sun.COM (bobc at wings.Eng - Bob Clark) Subject: Q; Rec. for pot lids? I am fortunate enough to have a 15 ga. keg ready to be converted to boiling kettle, but first I would like to get a good lid for it and cut the hole to match. Can anyone recommend a good lid for this? Thanks, Bob C. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon Jul 22 09:46:16 1991 From: larryba at microsoft.com Subject: Re: Aluminum vs SS In HBD #684: |>From: pencin at parcplace.com (Russ Pencin) | |Well, don't all of you get your airplane tickets to S.F. too quickly. I drove |up to SF Chinatown yesterday to check out this $42/$39 stainless steel pot. |Well folks it isn't stainless,it's aluminum! I talked at length with the owner |and he verified that the pot was aluminum. Not to waste the trip, I scouted |several other places and found a 8 gallon pot that really looked like |Stainless, but didn't have a magnet to check it. I'll probably go back up |next week to re-check since this pot was nothing short of beautiful. A magnet is not a reliable indicator of SS. Some varieties are magnetic, some not. No aluminum pot is magnetic. I am not a metallurgist but I suspect the following will reliably identify your metal: - if it rusts, it is regular steel - if it corrodes under lye (easy off) it is aluminum (i used to make hydrogen ballons using this technique) - if none of the above it is probably SS. If it is thin (like formed sheet metal) and has a rolled or folded edge, it ain't aluminum. Aluminum is too soft and all aluminum pots I have seen are pretty thick. Also, aluminum, unless surface treated, is easily scratched - it is much softer than SS. Take one of your kitchen forks and do a simple hardness test. The brewers warehouse in Seattle has 5 gal korean ss pots for $40. They are thin bottomed vessels. I could imagine a 10gal pot for the same $ from a super discounter buying direct from Korea or Taiwan. Although I brew in SS, I have heard from reliable brewers that aluminum has no detectable affects on their beers. If I had known that before dropping centa-bucks on SS I would have opted for aluminum... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 10:58 EDT From: Rob Malouf <RMALOUF at SBMS01.MSRC.SUNYSB.EDU> Subject: Flat beer A while ago, I made my first attempt at a partial mash. It was an all-around failure, but I decided to let it ferment out anyway, just to see what would happen. It's been in the bottle now for about three weeks now, and it tastes a little weird but not all bad. Unfortunately, it's almost completely flat! I used the same priming (1/2 cup corn sugar), bottling, and capping procedure I have always used, and I've always gotten good carbonation within 2-3 weeks. The starches in the mash didn't convert, but I added enough DME to get an OG of 1.033. I pitched about a cup of Wyeast Chico Ale slurry, and had strong fermentation within eight hours, and fermentation was complete in a week. The gravity at bottling time was 1.006. The beer was still very cloudy when I bottled it (I assume the unconverted starch had something to do with that). The bottles have a good yeasty sediment. The temperature has averaged 75 to 80 degrees for most of the time, but this week it's been more like 95 (I live in an attic). I also chill each bottle for a couple of days before I taste it. Does anyone have any idea what might have caused this? By the way, I've brewed a small all-grain raspberry beer since then, and the mash went very well, so I guess I've solved that problem. - --- Rob Malouf Marine Sciences Research Center rmalouf at sbms01.msrc.sunysb.edu State University of New York at Stony Brook Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 11:03 CDT From: korz at ihlpl.att.com Subject: Ferromagnetism Russ writes: >and he verified that the pot was aluminum. Not to waste the trip, I scouted >several other places and found a 8 gallon pot that really looked like >Stainless, but didn't have a magnet to check it. I'll probably go back up Sorry Russ, but a magnet won't help you. Neither SS nor aluminum are ferromagnetic, so the magnet test will not distinguish between the two. Besides checking the specific gravity of the metal, which would be difficult given the size (remember the "EUREKA!" story?), I can only think of testing the electrical potential of the metal (I think that's what it's called). Anyone care to comment if the following will work: 1. look up the electrical potential of aluminum and of copper 2. soak a piece of filter paper in an electrolyte (say, lemon juice & water) 3. sandwichthe wet filter paper between the pot and a piece of copper 4. measure the voltage potential between the pot and the copper 5. if the voltage is equal to the difference between the AL and CU electrical potentials, then you know you've got AL. If the voltage is different, then I don't know what you've got. I don't have my old Chem book anymore (these potentials were in an appendix) so I can't look them up for you, and I'm pretty sure that you won't find an electrical potential for SS. Try the CRC Chem & Physics Reference Manual. Al "I can't believe I remember this much from a class I almost failed" Korzonas korz at ihlpl.att.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1991 13:44 EDT From: "One slip, and down the hole we fall" <ACSWILEY%EKU.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #684 (July 22, 1991) Fellow Brewsters I am the guy who thought he had a problem because I pitched the liquid yeast without letting it incubate. Well everything look likes its going to be ok. The batch started ferminting friday night..about 2 days after I pitched the yeast..anyway it was quite active for 2 days straight. Its bubbling about once every 10 seconds now. Just thought i'd let you guys know. Thanks to evryone out there who responded to my inquiry! While I am here does anyone have O'briens of Chicago's telephone or address...I lost my catalog. Direct e-mail is fine. Bill acswiley at eku.bitnet Return to table of contents
Date: 22 Jul 91 13:48:00 EDT From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil> Subject: Sam Adams Wheat Brew. I got my first six-pack of the new Wheat Brew from Sam Adams (The Boston Beer Co.), this weekend. Now, I am new to experiencing many different types of beer. Two years ago, I hated beer because all I had ever tasted was the usual American barley sodapop. When I finally discovered beer in all it's glories, I missed wheat beer. This new brew from Sam Adams is the first wheat I have ever tasted. (I intend to brew some, but too many stouts to try first!) Does anyone know what the wheat percentage is in this beer? Do they brew it on premesis, or is it contract brewed. Most importantly of all, how does it compare with other great wheat beers of Europe. (I intend to get around to trying all of them, too ... it just takes time, a lot of time.) Oh yes, how did I like the new Wheat Brew? Since I haven't heard any other opinions yet, I'll go out on a limb and say it is delicious. There is a good solid taste that starts with a lot of flavor and lingers longer than any other beer I have tasted. The far end of the aftertaste is not unlike that you get if you chew raw wheat berries. Now, if the consensus is that it's a bad beer, I'm proven to have no taste ... but I think it will hold up to be pretty good in all quarters. Dan Graham Beer made with the Derry Air. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 15:09 EDT From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com> Subject: Dry brew, cold filtered Last week, Dave Barrett had a few questions about Bud Dry, cold filtering, and dry brewing. I always assumed that Bud Dry is "dry brewed", meaning fermented with a very attenuative yeast. Attenuative yeasts will ferment all the sugars out of solution, resulting in a low final gravity and a dry (not sweet) taste. I assumed that "Cold filtered" meant that the beer was not heat pasteurized. Typically beers is heat treated to kill any living thing such as yeast or bacteria. Cold filtering means that the final beer is passed through a fine filter to remove these organisms. This is reportedly better to the taste of the beer. Listening to the adverts, I think it is intesesting to note the order of the process. A-B always says "cold filtered, then dry brewed" to describe their process. This seems backwards to me. My bother to filter, if afterwards you are going to brew the stuff?! mike f Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 15:40:58 MDT From: cartley at dix.Mines.Colorado.EDU (Craig Artley) Subject: sterilizing water? Hello! I bought a starter kit and cooked up my first batch of homebrew last night. I checked on it this morning, at it was bubbling right along. It looks to be off to a good start---I can hardly wait. Anyway, I'm writing for some opinions. In addition to reading Papazian's "The complete joy of homebrewing", I got some tips from the fellow at the homebrew store (The Wine & Hop Shop in Denver). He strongly recommended Boiling all of the water for 20 minutes to sterilize it, then letting it cool overnight in the fermenter. Then boil and cool the wort and add it to the fermenter. Do the rest of you go to such extreme measures as boiling 3-4 gallons of water for making your beer? It was pain, but the shopkeeper said that using fresh tap water could result in unwanted bacterial contamination. Next time I will be inclined to skip that step and relax, don't worry, and have a homebrew. Opinions? I also cooled the wort by placing the brewpot in a sink of cold water, which worked rather well. I observed a lot of the protein sediment (trub) settling out in the fermenter, so I guess that means I got a good "cold-break", right? This fellow also recommended using two packets of yeast and rehydrating it in a bit of warm, sterilized water before pitching. Are these also good ideas? Craig Artley cartley at dix.mines.colorado.edu (303) 273-3557 Dept. of Geophysics, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, CO 80401 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 91 21:29:46 MST From: teroach!fse at phx.mcd.mot.com Subject: Conditioning in tanks I've asked this before and did get a number of helpful responses... Thanks to those that replied... But I'm still having trouble and thought I'd cry out once again: I "keg" my homebrew in 5 and 10 gallon ball lock style Cornelius and Spartenburg tanks, I've followed the majority of the sound advice I've had for conditioning in the tanks and I still come up with nearly flat beer. My local brew supply proprietor and local expert in these matters has been kegging his brews in standard half kegs (15.5 gal) from his normal 65 gallon batches he does in a single mashing session. He has no problems with in keg (i.e. large volumes relative to bottles) conditioning. I've made sure that there's no residual sanitizer in the tanks, that the seals are 'set' with 8-10 lbs of CO2 after priming with about 1/2 cup of corn sugar boiled in a pint of water (and let cool of course). After the lids on I purge the Air with CO2 for several seconds via the presure relief valve and then let the pressure build and set the seals... I make sure the sugar/water mixture is well mixed with the beer. I've measured the gravity after conditioning and it's exactly the same as before I primed, indicating that the sugar has indeed been consumed during conditioning. I even, as one person suggested, rechecked the pressure each day for about 5 days to make sure the CO2 didn't all get absorbed into the beer before it had a chance to build up it's own presure and therefore lose the seal. The second and third day it took on a little CO2, the next day, it didn't take on any and the forth and fifth day it tried to pump beer up my CO2 line! But by God, after two weeks of conditioning, I've got very little fizzzz! If you slosh the beer, stir it or agitate it, it produces head pretty well. So I'm back to artificially carbonating this tank again. >From the responses last time, I know that some people have given up on natural conditioning of Cornelius tanked beer, but maybe those of you that have good luck with this can give me an idea of what I need to do.. Am I cutting back on priming sugar (as sugested by C.Papazian) too much for this volume? Do I need to use a full cup to get a 5 gallon tank carbonated? Two cups for a 10 gallon tank? Geeezzz! I gotta relax! Good thing I'm sippin' on a homebrew. 8^{) (burping smiley) Stan Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #685, 07/23/91 ************************************* -------
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