HOMEBREW Digest #693 Fri 02 August 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Pitching Rates (Re: Overpitching?) (Stephen E. Hansen)
  stuck ferment (Russ Gelinas)
  Absolute Beginners (Peter Glen Berger)
  Saving Malt Aromatics ("Roger Deschner")
  Christmas Ale Recipe (BAUGHMANKR)
  Re: Lotus 1-2-3 file... (Kurt Swanson)
  Fear and Loathing in the Great PPM vs. mG/L Debate... (Kurt Swanson)
  Wort aeration... (Kurt Swanson)
  Re : A Judge's Lament (Conn Copas)
  Yeast (Walter H. Gude)
  Indian beers (Percy)
  Musings on a first mash (Kurt Swanson)
  Where to find kegs (Jeff Close)
  Cider (Phil Obermarck)
  Re: Liberia's own Club beer (Dale Veeneman)
  Dry-hopping (Tom Bower)
  unsuscribe root at bison.mb.ca (root of bison)
  Re: Stuck Fermentation (Ken Ellinwood)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 23:53:06 -0700 From: Stephen E. Hansen <hansen at gloworm.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Pitching Rates (Re: Overpitching?) In Homebrew Digest #688, eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West) writes: > OK, so how much yeast is too much yeast? The question of pitching rates was thrown around the HBD many moons ago but I don't remember that anyone came up with a definitive answer (i.e. Biblical, as in from the works of Miller or Fix). I recently came across a value for commercial "standard" pitching rates that I thought I'd share with the rest of you. My wife's aunt knows of my interest in brewing and often sends me newspaper clippings and whatnot from the Portland area. She worked for many years in a microbiology lab and I assume that that is the source of a publication she recently sent my way. It's titled "Microbiological Control in the Brewery", Application Report AR-71 from the Millipore Company. Millipore supplies filtration equipment and culture media to the brewing industry (and others). This report was kind of interesting in its discussion of controlling and monitoring the wee critters in a commercial brewery. One section on Critical Control Areas talked about testing the pitching yeast for Lactobacillus and Pediococcus contamination. As part of this test a "pitching rate equivalent" dilution is made and cultured on the proper medium. Here are the directions. Parts 1, 2 and 5 are the interesting ones. 1. Obtain a sample yeast cream from the brink. 2. Place 2 ml of the sample into 50 ml of sterile saline solution. 3. Shake the dilution bottle and plate (i.e. spread in thin coating) a 0.1 ml sample on Wallerstein Laboratories Differential Medium (WLD medium). 4. Incubate anaerobically for ten days (refer to section on "Anaerobic Culturing"). 5. If the count is under 50 bacterial colonies per ml, the yeast is considered to be in sound biological condition. If the yeast is diluted as described, the number of organisms that appear on the plate will be identical to the number per ml that would appear in the wort if the yeast were to be used in pitching. Or, to put it another way, a "pitching-rate-equivalent" dilution is the same as the dilution that results when the brewer pitches the standard one pound of yeast to one barrel of wort. Following this formula, a homebrewer would need to pitch 0.8 quarts of "yeast cream" for a 5 gallon batch. Now I generally pitch about 3 pints of starter solution but you can bet that that is a small fraction of the "standard one pound of yeast to one barrel of wort." Worried about overpitching? Don't. Have a homebrew :-) Stephen E. Hansen - hansen at sierra.Stanford.EDU | "The church is near, Electrical Engineering Computer Facility | but the road is icy. Applied Electronics Laboratory, Room 204 | The bar is far away, Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-4055 | but I will walk carefully." Phone: +1-415-723-1058 Fax: +1-415-725-7298 | -- Russian Proverb Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1991 9:38:53 EDT From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: stuck ferment Somewhere in Miller (look for Crabtree effect in the index), he discusses why "beginner recipes" are bad, and I believe he says somthing to the effect that because these recipes are very light on malt, like 3 lbs., there is a lack of the proteins and amino acids that the yeast need to multiply. So the yeast only grow to a certain point, then they start fermenting. He says something about maltotriose not being able to be taken in by the cells, so the result is a high-final gravity beer. I suppose even if you make a 1.040 OG brew, if the malt does not have enough of the required yeast nutrients, then you could get the same result. Unfortunately, I don't think you could just add yeast nutrients to the stuck batch; the yeast are already "damaged". Yeast experts, wanna comment? Looking back, 2 of the people with stuck ferments used M&F malt. Mark S., did you also use M&F? Maybe M&F made a nutrient-poor batch. Russ (I don't claim to understand any of this. If in doubt, boil the book, no wait, don't boil it, just simmer it, like tea, no, not like tea, like...) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 10:06:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Glen Berger <pb1p+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Subject: Absolute Beginners Okay, it's naive stupid question time. I just moved in to a new house, which means that I think I finally have enough space to homebrew. My questions are: 1) What equipment do I need and how much will it cost? 2) Are there net resources (a la ftp) for recipes and the like? 3) Any other useful information that would help a beginner. Please either post any responses, or mail them to: pb1p+beer at andrew.cmu.edu. Thanks! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Pete Berger || ARPA: peterb at cs.cmu.edu Professional Student || Pete.Berger at andrew.cmu.edu Univ. Pittsburgh School of Law || BITNET: R746PB1P at CMCCVB Attend this school, not CMU || UUCP: ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!pb1p - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Goldilocks is about property rights. Little Red Riding Hood is a tale of seduction, rape, murder, and cannibalism." -Bernard J. Hibbits - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: 1 August 1991 09:32:24 CDT From: "Roger Deschner" <U52983 at UICVM.uic.edu> Subject: Saving Malt Aromatics It occured to me -- now why on earth would you want to do a thing like that? The greatest value of those malt aromatics "lost" during the boil is what they do to my house while I am brewing. It is a truly heavenly aroma, and one of the definite rewards of brewing at home, despite the upstairs neighbor who periodically drops by for a homebrew when he smells it. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1991 11:06 EST From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU Subject: Christmas Ale Recipe >From: Curt Ames <7872P%NAVPGS.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu> Hmm. Another one of those renegades from Cornell. >Subject: Christmas Brew >I'm looking for that special holiday brew made with any Christmas-type herbs >and spices. Anyone have a favorite mix out there for a dark, high alcohol >winter brew. Following is Phil Fleming's recipe for Christmas Ale that I posted last fall in these electronic pages. The recipe is in the latest special issue of Zymurgy. I judged this beer in Oakland at the AHA competition. All I can say is that after the first sip I was singing "Jingle Bells"! It finished runner-up in Best of Show. Ingredients for 5 gallons 3 1/2 pounds Munton and Fison Stout Kit 3 1/2 pounds Munton and Fison amber dry malt extract 3 pounds Munton and Fison amber dry malt extract } ?? Typo ?? 1/2 ounce Hallertauer hops (60 minutes) 1/2 ounce Hallertauer hops (5 minutes) 3/4 pound honey 5 3-inch cinnamon sticks 2 teaspoons allspice 1 teaspoon cloves 6 ounces ginger root 6 rinds from medium size oranges (scrape the white insides of the rind away) Wyeast No. 1007 German ale liquid yeast 7 ounces corn sugar for priming *O.G.: 1.069 *T.G.: 1.030 *Primary fermentation: 14 days at 61 degrees F. *Age when judged: six months BREWER'S SPECIFICS Simmer spices and honey (45 minutes). Boil malt and hops (50 minutes). Add finishing hops and boil (5 minutes). Cool, strain and pitch yeast. MY COMMENTS: The second call for 3 pounds of M & F amber dry malt extract is probably a typo in the magazine. 7 pounds of extract and 3/4 pound of honey would give you an O.G. of around 1.069. 10 pounds of extract would give you an O.G. much higher than that. I never did decide if the second call for the M & F was a typo or not. It was discussed but I'm not sure I was convinced. So please take my comments with a "shaker or two of salt". Anybody close to Phil care to ask him? This was one of the best -- no, I take that back -- this was THE best Xmas ale I've ever tasted. I'd like to set the public record straight especially since I might be the one screwing it up. Though he doesn't say so, it sounds like Phil did not brew the honey and spices together with the extract but mixed them together in the fermenter. I will say that, unlike other Xmas beers I've tasted, this beer had the freshest, most aromatic spicy smell and taste. Oftentimes, spices will add a bitterness to the beer if boiled too long. This beer was not bitter at all. Merry Christmas. Kinney Baughman | Beer is my business and | I'm late for work. Ah, hem! > --Darryl Richman >P.S. To all the adoring fans, yes... it's true: this is just a facade >account and nome d'plume for Steve Russell (srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell. >edu), one of those lovable rascals at Cornell, where there is nothing >better to do than drink. IBU, UBMe, We All B Each Other. Well, whether U B Darryl or U B Snoopy, just wanted to let you know that you might be careful when and where you plume your nome. We got laws against doing that kind of thing in public down here in North Carolina. Jesse, he be everywhere!! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 10:28:13 CDT From: kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson) Subject: Re: Lotus 1-2-3 file... So whatever happened to that Lotus 1-2-3 brewing aid that was discussed in this forum?? I keep checking the archives in miami, but find nothing new... What's the word? I'd like to get my fingertips on this... - -- Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, Northwestern University. kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 10:50:38 CDT From: kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson) Subject: Fear and Loathing in the Great PPM vs. mG/L Debate... I couldn't resist holding off until the fiery debate subsided... About 2 months ago I received a city water analysis in terms of mg/l, and discovered that my reference (Miller), described the variants in terms of ppm. Thus I, too, was wondering the conversion rate. So I posted a Usenet msg to sci.chem saying that I had measurements of certain ions dissolved in H2O in terms of mg/l and needed ppm. I stated how chemically ignorant I was, but that I believed some equation must exist that uses Avogadro's number. I received about 15 replies. They all said that "ppm" is a misnomer, outdated term, shouldn't be used, etc.... And they assured me that any reference to ppm for dissolved ions in water is in fact equivalent to mg/l... But, unfortunately, about half told me that I should multiply mg/l by 1 to get ppm, while the others said I should divide... thus the great debate continues... - -- Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, Northwestern University. kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 10:53:31 CDT From: kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson) Subject: Wort aeration... To aerate wort it has been suggested that small holes be drilled on the end of the siphon tube... but *WHICH* end? I could see possibilities for either, but maybe I'm just over-thinking this one... - -- Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, Northwestern University. kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 16:43:36 bst From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas%loughborough.ac.uk at hplb.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Re : A Judge's Lament Martin A. Lodahl writes : > But the more acquainted I become with infected beer, the >more I'm convinced it's not harmless. This is probably not so relevant to tasting and judging, but different beers of the same strength certainly can have different hangover potential. The culprit seems to be higher alcohols (often referred to collectively as fusel oil), although I must admit that the whole subject of the effect of congeners in alcoholic drinks is somewhat contentious, scientifically. Fusel oil is promoted by the use of certain (typically amateur) yeasts, warm ferments, and nutrient deficiencies. Having said all this, some ale brewers intentionally encourage fusel oil production for the sake of additional complexity, in the same way that high gravity brews are regarded for their fruity ester content. I've had many a homebrewer tell me that their brew treats them more lightly than commercial brews, due to the natural methods employed, presence of yeast, etc. By and large, my investigations have revealed this to be wishful thinking, and that anybody who uses 'yeast anonymous' and no temperature control is asking for a headache. Conn V Copas tel : (0509)263171 ext 4164 Loughborough University of Technology fax : (0509)610815 Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail - G Britain (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 10:32:48 CDT From: whg at tellab5.tellabs.COM (Walter H. Gude) Subject: Yeast Hi, With all this talk about yeast I've been thinking (Always a bad sign). What if, rather than take the slurry out of the primary, I put new wort into the primary. I figure I could brew up a new batch on the day I'm tranfering to the secondary. After siphoning the firth batch of, I could siphon in the new wort. Of course, the new wort would have to be the right temp. when it was siphoned. I think I'd only want to do this once or twice before giving the fermenter a good cleaning. Anybody tried this? I can't see that there'd be more chance of infection than transfering the yeast from place to place several times. Comments? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 14:10:37 EDT From: t13329 at Calvin.EDU (Percy) Subject: Indian beers Howdy, I'm new to this list. I've never really brewed any beer myself but I do drink a great deal of it. My Dad used to brew beer in this big blue plastic traschcan and it was damned good. Instead of malt he'd use this black, sticky gunk that was some kind of pick-me-up medicene that you got in big bottles. I think it was because malt was hard to get in India or something - anyone know what that could have been? BTW, any one out there ever try an Indian beer? Su Misra t13329 at ursa.calvin.edu - -- | \ | / \| \| | \| |\ | | \| \| | /| /\ \|/ \|\ |\ . |\ \|\ |/ | /|| /|\|\ |\ |/ | / \ | |\ | . |/ |\ |\ |/ ||/ | |\ | |/ \ | | | | | | \ | | | | Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 13:22:32 CDT From: kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson) Subject: Musings on a first mash For my first all-grain recipe, I chose Miller's All-Malt I.P.A., (pg. 224), using 6 lbs 2-row lager, 1 lb crystal, .5 ounce chocolate, and 14 AAU's of Fuggles (is this pronounced like goggles or bugles?), which worked to be 3.2 ounces. I placed the grains into my corona's hopper, and proceded to set the grind as per Miller pgs 111-112. With the 2nd plate assembly firmly screwed to the rest of the mill (with the 2 wing nut on the sides), I found that even with the adjusting screw completely loosened (or taken off), the grain was just gournd much too fine - flour. Thus I loosened the two wing nuts which gave the grinding plates a bit more room. Now the grain came out still very fine, but the husks were not ground, so I said "intact husks - no problems sparging" (mistake #1). Then I mashed-in as the stated temp, adjusted pH correctly, and proceded to starch conversion temperature (150F). With my 33 quart pot covering 2 burners, this did not take long. When it got to 147F, I turned of the burners, and watched the temp settle at 150F - so I thought (mistake #2). So I placed the pot into my insulated box, and waited one hour. Then I checked the temp, and found it to be 153F! I had no idea how high it went. So I decided let it cool, and at 148F I closed it up again. After another hour I took the temp and found it at 147F - the box is a pretty good insulator. So I proceded to sparge. I used a grain bag slightly suspended over the bottom of one of those Canadian 6.7 gallon food pails (which I believe come straight through Crosby & Baker), to which I had added a spigot. The first runnings where opaque. So were the third, fifth, and twelfth. So I just decided I had obviously ground the grains to much, and proceded to rinse that which was not flour. Now, because of mistakes 1 & 2, I decided I just might not have enough sugar in the wort to make anything stronger than Miller Lite. Thus, lacking any extract, I added (get ready to cringe), one pound of corn sugar. Then I completed the boil and hop additions to complete the recipe, chilled the wort, racked off the flour into the fermenter, and took an O.G. reading of 1.047 in 4.5 gallons. (For some reason I decided not to top this up to five). Miller obtains an OG of 1.045 with this recipe, so assuming a complete 40 pts/gallon of gravity for the pound of corn sugar, and discounting the lost fermentables in there with the dead flour in the boiler, bearing any miscalculations, I believe I obtained an efficiency of 85+% of Miller's. How good is this? To complete the story I pitched with 7 month old Wyeast (British Ale), which only took 1 day to explode to near bursting levels in the foil. (My last Wyeast was 1 month old and took one hour to get to pitchable size.) Anyone else encounter this? Another comment: I have a 33-quart pot & a 9-quart pot. Thus I mashed in the 33-quart, and had to try to get 5 gallons of sparge water into a 9-quart pot, immediately rinse out the 33-quart to collect the runnings & then boil. I suspect the purchase of a 20-quart pot for sparge water would be a good idea, or even two, with one to mash in - and thus only use the 33-quart for boiling since 33-quart is a bit large for mashing (I would like my floating thermometer to actually float....). So what sort of setup do y'all use? - -- Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, Northwestern University. kswanson at casbah.acns.nwu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 15:41:24 EDT From: Jeff Close <jclose at potomac.ads.com> Subject: Where to find kegs Greetings, I know this has been discussed millions of times, but can anyone repeat where some good sources for small kegs are? I'm tired of bottling and want to look into it... Thanks much for any help. Jeffrey - ---------------------------------v------------------------------------ InterNet: jclose at ads.com | VoiceNet: 703-243-1611 ADS, 1500 Wilson Blvd #512 | "Now it's time for something you'll Arlington, VA 22209 | REALLY like.." - Rocky the Squirrel Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 13:32:27 PDT From: Phil Obermarck <POBERMARCK at INTELLICORP.COM> Subject: Cider Help! I have recently come into a mess o' apples, and would like to make some cider. Problem is, I don't have a cider press. If anyone can tell me where I can buy (cheap), rent or borrow one in the SF Bay area I'd appreciate it. Also, any favorite cider recipes (pref from apple to bottle) would be useful. Thanks, Philip R. Obermarck POBERMARCK at INTELLICORP.COM - ------- Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 91 16:40:06 EDT From: Dale Veeneman <dev1 at gte.com> Subject: Re: Liberia's own Club beer I have very fond memories of Club beer. I served as a Peace Corps volunteer in Liberia for nearly 4 years in the early 70's. Since water was generally not safe to drink without boiling, I drank a great deal of beer. A few European imports were available in bigger towns (and at special embassy functions), but cost more than I could afford on my meager salary so I drank Club. (Palm wine, a naturally fermented beverage collected from specially prepared tree tops and immediately consumed was also available, but you had to know someone who had a tree and besides that's a whole 'nother story -- as is "cane juice.") Rumor had it the brewery was started by a German, but when I was there the company motto could have been "Relax, don't worry, have a Club." Once there was a period of extended drought (unusual for a rain forest climate) which caused the level of Monrovia's St. Paul river to drop. The level dropped far enough that brine from the ocean started backing upstream. This wasn't too bad, except that the city's water supply was taken from the river. So for a period of 3-4 months the city's water was so salty, you couldn't drink it. Not to worry, just drink Club! Unfortunately, the brewery got its water from the city supply. Did this bother them? Not in the least, they just continued brewing, producing case after case of salty, undrinkable beer (talk about water conditioning - I hate to think of the ppm). For a year or two afterwards, I would occasionally order a beer in some out-of-the-way up-country dive, take a sip, pucker up, spit it out, and dump the bottle. On another occasion (the night before my wedding, in fact), a group of friends and I were out bending a few elbows. Now, Club beer bottles came in two sizes, 750 ml (the usual), and something around 300 or 350 ml (nobody bothered with these). Because the bottles could be found all over the country, they became a standard for measuring volume by the market ladies. Palm oil, palm wine, kerosine, etc., all could be found in Club bottles lining stalls at the markets. Anyway, this night, I noticed something terribly wrong with the beer I was drinking. Everybody tasted it but nobody could tell what it was. We finally called the proprietor over to taste it - he took a swig, spit it on the floor and said he thought it was kerosine. So we all tasted it again and agreed that yes, although it probably wasn't 100% kerosine, it had alot in it. Beginning in December of 1989, a tragic civil war has decimated the country (Nimba county, in which I lived for two years, is virtually deserted). A tenuous cease-fire appears to be holding, but things are still in a very bad way. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 15:25:25 PDT From: Tom Bower <bower at hprnlme1.rose.hp.com> Subject: Dry-hopping Full-Name: Tom Bower Questions for the hop-heads! The major problem I've heard of with dry-hopping is the risk of contamination. Over the last months, there have been discussions of microwaving, tea-brewing and various other techniques, but I haven't been able to get a clear idea of what the best method is. 1.) How do you keep your brew from becoming infected when dry-hopping? 2.) Does dry-hopping in a (refrigerated) keg work well? I'm thinking of trying this on my next beer. I would hope that the cold temperatures might reduce the risk of any nasties becoming a problem. Any advice would be appreciated! Tom Bower, HP RND R&D Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 91 21:21:20 CDT From: root of bison <root at bison.mb.ca> Subject: unsuscribe root at bison.mb.ca unsuscribe How do I unsuscribe to this mailing list ? I have sent a request to homebrew-request, but got a reply that my userid is being added (twice ?) Anyway, I'd like to unsuscribe to this mailing list. Thanks - -- budi rahardjo <root at bison.mb.ca> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 17:57:10 PDT From: aimla!ruby!ken at uunet.UU.NET (Ken Ellinwood) Subject: Re: Stuck Fermentation Last year I too suffered from a long string of stuck fermentations. Here was my situation: I brewed all ales, almost all of which had origial gravities of 1.044 and stuck at 1.016 or 1.020. I fermented in a refrigerator and used a lamp timer and some personal attention to control the temperature inside the refrigerator. Believing that higher temperatures of ferment were worse than lower ones and that since the weather affected the temperature inside the refrigerator, I kept the temperature of fermentation down in the low 60's (this way, I thought, I could keep the weather from ruining my beer when I was unable to attend to it for a while). After trying to solve the problem with different malt extracts, better wort areation, stronger pitches and yeast nutrient, (none of which had any noticeable effect - leading me to beleive that they were not the problem), I fermented with the fermenter mostly submerged in large water bath and kept the temperature of the bath at a somewhat stable 67-69 degrees. Problem solved - the two batches that were fermented in this manner both fermented down to about 1.010. Apparently, ale yeasts prefer this kind of temperature. I have since purchased the hunter energy monitor for my fermenting fridge. Although I haven't had time to brew with it yet, I hope that it will allow for many successful brews in the high 60's (unattended, of course). Ken Ellinwood ken at aimla.com Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #693, 08/02/91 ************************************* -------
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