---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Root Beer Yeast (Jim Grady)
  Beer & Bread (Jim Grady)
  Stuck Fermentations (Jim Grady)
  Reculturing Yeast (Mike Tavis)
  Yeast and oranges. ("DRCV06::GRAHAM")
  Mashing, Dextrins, and American Lager Stats. ("Todd Enders -- WD0BCI")
  A Short Note on pH ("Todd Enders -- WD0BCI")
  Re: Bread Yeast (nnieuwej)
  Re:  Surface Mail address for AHA (Richard Stueven)
  SKIMMING (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: pressure cooker for Malt Aromatics  (Sheridan Adams)
  Malt Aroma (John Polstra)
  Boulder Beers ("Roger Deschner")
  wet-hop (Russ Gelinas)
  pitching dregs, bottle activity (krweiss)
  RE: YEAST (Jerry Burch)
  lager question (Mark Nickel)
  Re: Missing Fermentation (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Re : kegging (Conn Copas)
  Re : Controlling fermenter temperature (Conn Copas)
  bread yeast in beer (Scott Murphy)
  My _Zymurgy_ hasn't shown up; phone number/address for AHA (Dave Kohr)
  Re: yet another stuck... (korz)
  Christmas Brew (Curt Ames)
  Query about Beer/Ale brewing reference (SERETNY)
  Skimmin', boilin', & defendin' (BAUGHMANKR)


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Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 6:49:47 EDT
From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwald.wal.hp.com>
Subject: Root Beer Yeast

 dougd at uts.amdahl.com (Douglas DeMers) writes:

> Does anyone have any suggestions as to what kind of yeast to use for
> making homebrewed root beer?   This is for the kids, of course:-).  The
> recipe with the extract says to use bread yeast...

Our local supplier recommends Champagne yeast but I imagine ale yeast would
work well too; I plan to try it on my next batch.

- --
Jim Grady                         |
Internet: jimg at hpwala.wal.hp.com  | "Better thin beer than an empty jug"
Phone: (617) 290-3409             |                     - Danish Proverb

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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 7:08:15 EDT
From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwald.wal.hp.com>
Subject: Beer & Bread

 Larry Gerstley <ldgerstl at uci.edu> writes in HBD #691:

>   You can make bread with beer, though.  Use malt extract instead of
>   honey in any recipe that calls for it.  I am going to try to bake
>   bread with beer yeast and use homebrew in the recipe.

I frequently do this.  I have never tried re-pitching the yeast from the
primary for my next batch but I frequently use it to make bread.  My
favorite recipe is George Lang's recipe for Potato Bread with Caraway
Seeds (follows) in his book "The Cuisine of Hungary".  I am told it is also in
James Beard's book, "Beard on Bread" as 'George Lang's Potato Bread'.
The bread is very moist and flavorful and has some weight to it.  The
dough is a lot stickier than most other breads I have made to having a
heavy duty mixer to do a lot of the kneading helps.

Anyhow, when I make it using homebrew, I get a slurry of the lees & left over
beer from the primary to make about 2 c. and add a little water to come up
to 2.5 - 3 c. of liquid.  This has a fair bit more body than is in water
so sometimes it takes a little more liquid.

Here's the recipe as it appears in "The Cuisine of Hungary":

             Potato Bread With Caraway Seeds

3 medium-sized Potatoes
2 pounds Bread Flour
1 envelope of dry granular yeast, or
  1 cake of compressed fresh yeast
1.5 tablespoons Salt
0.5 tablespoons Caraway Seeds

1. Boil the potatoes in their skins.  Peel them, and mash through a sieve
   or potato ricer while warm.  You should have one cup mashed potatoes.
   Let cool. (He seems to have smaller potatoes than I have found here.
   I use 1 c. of potatoes)
2. Place yeast in 1/2 cup warm (not hot) water, and mix well with 3
   tablespoons flour in a 4-quart bowl.  Let the starter rise for 30
   minutes.  (Omit this step if making it with the lees from the primary)
3. Add 2 cups lukewarm water, the salt and the caraway seeds.  Add the
   rest of the flour and the mashed potatoes. (Substitute the lees etc.
   described above for the 2 c. water)
4. Knead the dough until it separates from hands and sides of the pot.
   This will take from 10 to 12 minutes.
5. Let the dough rise until it doubles in bulk.  Depending on the 
   temperature, the nature of the flour and the yeast, it will take anywhere
   from 1 to 2 hours. 
6. Preheat the oven to 400F.  Place the dough on a floured board and rework
   it for a few minutes.  Shape it into a loaf, and let it rise for about
   30 minutes.
7. Dip a brush into water and brush it on the center of the bread.  Then
   make an incision in the loaf.  Bake it in the preheated oven for
   45 minutes, or until it is done.

I usually bake it on a "Pizza Stone" (available from lots of kitchen shop)
and do the second rising on a pizza peel (usually available wherever you
find pizza stones).  The pizza stone goes in your oven and is supposed to
simulate a brick oven as well as possible on a small budget.  I spread
corn meal on the peel before I rise the bread on it and also on the pizza
stone before I slide the loaf onto it.  The stone must be pre-heated in
the oven in step 6.

It takes a while to make but most of the time is spent waiting so you can
do other things and it is well worth the wait!
   

- --
Jim Grady                         |
Internet: jimg at hpwala.wal.hp.com  | "Better thin beer than an empty jug"
Phone: (617) 290-3409             |                     - Danish Proverb


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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 7:45:33 EDT
From: Jim Grady <jimg at hpwald.wal.hp.com>
Subject: Stuck Fermentations

Mark Sandrock writes in #690:
> Tried my first batch of homebrew in about 6 years Friday night, and seem
> to have a stuck fermentation on my hands. The details are: 3kg (6.6lb)
> light malt extract, plus 1lb crystal and 0.5lb toasted pale ale malt, ...

and Dan Strahs writes in #691:
>         My third batch of homebrew has been stuck now for about 3 weeks.

>         Started off with 1 can M+F light unhopped, boiled with 1 lb. crushed
> crystal malt, 1 lb. corn sugar, 2 oz. Cluster hops and 1 tsp. non-iodized
> table ...

Well, alas, I discovered yesterday morning that I, too, have a stuck batch on
my hands.  I was trying to make a lighter beer (in alcohol content) so I used
3.3# M+F light malt extract (unhopped), 2# dried malt extract, 8 oz. crystal
malt, 11 AAU Cascade Hops and 1 oz Cascade finishing hops.  The original
gravity was 1.032 (a little lower than I hoped - my previous batch was in
the 40s with 4# Mountmelleck Amber extract & 1# dried malt extract) and
after 2 weeks the fermentation had stopped. (It didn't take that long, I
just didn't check it until then.)  I did not have time to bottle it so
I wanted to rack it off the lees.  When I did this, I took another S.G.
and found it was only down to 1.020.  It does not have any off-flavors
that I can detect (not that my palate is particularly discerning) but
it is still sweeter than what I wanted. I have 4 books I can check so that's
what I did next & here is what I found:

1. Papazian, TCJoHB: (pg. 305) said I was probably worrying and that many
        all malt beers will start as high as 1.038 and end as high as 1.013.
        Some will start as high as 1.055 and end at 1.028.  Says to roll with
        the punch and bottle when fermentation has stopped. -- Not very
        helpful but may be what I will do.  With all those hops, the sweetness
        isn't too objectionable.

2. Miller, TCHoHB: (pg. 189) says the problem is an unattenuative yeast and
        that I should change yeast.  I am using M+F dried yeast - the same as
        for my previous batch that started in the 40s and ended about 1.010.

3. Reese, "Better Beer & How to Brew It" (c) 1978 said usually caused by
        weak yeast or fermentation temperature too low.

4. Eckhardt, "A Treatise on Lager Beers" (c) 1981 said that stuck fermentation
        is relatively common and can be caused by poor yeast, too low temp OR
        too high temp.  I am starting to suspect the latter because nothing
        else seems to fit and we did have a bit of a heat wave here in the
        past 2 wks.  I was fermenting in the basement & don't know what the
        temperature actually got to but is was in the 90s & up to 100 for
        several days straight. Eckhardt suggests the following remedies:

        "It is best cured by making up a strong healthy yeast starter, and
        adding by stages a little of the stuck beer, until about a gallon
        of healthy young beer is going strongly.  This is then added to the
        stuck beer, along with enough sugar or malt extract to raise the
        specifig gravity by 5 points.

        Even better than the above procedure is to Kraeusen the stuck beer
        from a newly started batch at about 1.035, to raise the old beer's
        gravity by about 5 points.  Remove an equal amount of the old and
        add it to the new beer.  If your beer is in the last stages of
        secondary fermentation add more finings."

That is what I have found.  I am planning on trying Fred Eckhardt's first
method (starter) and if that doesn't work, I'll relax and bottle it and see
if it comes out potable.  Does anyone else have any suggestions?

(I'm also planning on waiting until autumn to start my next batch!!)


- --
Jim Grady                         |
Internet: jimg at hpwala.wal.hp.com  | "Better thin beer than an empty jug"
Phone: (617) 290-3409             |                     - Danish Proverb


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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 09:03:53 edt
From: mtavis at saturn.hyperdesk.com (Mike Tavis)
Subject: Reculturing Yeast

For a few months now, I have been enjoying my greatest homebrew
success.  Unfortunately, I am down to my last few bottles.  I have
been planning to try and recreate this batch.  Recently, it dawned on
me that reculturing the yeast from these last bottles might be a way
to reduce at least one variable.  Enough background here are my
questions: 

    1) Is the easiest way to reculture this yeast to combine the 
       dregs (sp?) into one bottle, add a bit of wort, and put
       a fermentation lock on the bottle?

    2) In general, is it best to reculture yeast from the bottle,
       the primary, or the secondary?

    3) Assuming that I want to make a third batch of this recipe
       should I save some of the yeast from this first reculturing
       effort (i.e. don't add it all to the second batch), or take
       it from one of the three sources in question 2?
       
Thanks in advance for all your words of wisdom.

- -- Mike

  o o|  Michael Tavis, HyperDesk Corporation
  o o|  Suite 300, 2000 West Park Dr., Westboro, MA  01581
  ---+  E-mail: mike_t at hyperdesk.com        (508) 366-5050


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Date: 31 Jul 91 10:08:00 EDT
From: "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <graham%drcv06.decnet at drcvax.af.mil>
Subject: Yeast and oranges.

Oranges in a brew:

Be careful how much of the orange you use, rather what parts you use.  The 
orange part of the peel has a lot of oils and will impart a Grand Marnier 
like flavor.  The white part of the peel has a nasty bitter taste, not the 
kind of bittering we love in beer, but one that will gag you.  The fruit 
has the usual orange juice flavor.  I would suggest using either the fruit 
sans peel or the zest sans the rest of the fruit.  Maybe I'll try a 
"Florida Porter" next batch myself.

Yeast:

The question of how much yeast to pitch is one which will always be with 
us, and that's all right because we need things to argue about.  Whether 
you pitch one yeast cell or a billion, the final yeast concentration will 
be in the neightorhood of one to ten billion cells per milliliter, 
depending on temperature and fermentable concentration.

The more cells (up to a point) you pitch, the shorter the respiration phase 
and the sooner primary fermentation will ensue.  Back in issue 600, Father 
Barleywine discussed his "yeast kicking" method of using the yeast mat from 
a batch as the entire pitch for the next batch.  I and a few others have 
tried this and had great success.  There is virtually no respiration phase 
at all.  If you use the same, or a little greater volume of wort, there is 
no overpitching because the yeast present was that needed (minus what 
remained in solution at botteling) for primary fermentation to begin in the 
first place.  I have seen active fermentation in less than two hours with 
this method, and the results are a great beer.

As I described yesterday, I'm conducting an experiment to see how long 
yeast under beer in the refrigerator will last.  I still have questions 
about autolysis.  The information is rather contradictory; maybe one of our 
august bio types will comment.


Gee, listen to me already, been brewing for seven months and I think I'm an 
expert ... must be too many homebrews ... and not even ten in the morning 
yet ... oh well, take it with a shaker or two of salt.

Dan Graham
Beer made with the Derry air.



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Date:      Wed, 31 Jul 1991 03:42:48 GMT
From: "Todd Enders -- WD0BCI" <cos.hp.com!plains!bolshoi!root at hp-lsd>
Subject:   Mashing, Dextrins, and American Lager Stats.


     After the recent discussion about dextrins, mashing, etc.  I went and did
a little research into just how much the mash temperature effects the 
fermentability of the wort.  I found the following in _Industrial 
Microbiology_ by Prescott and Dunn, 3rd ed. (used without permission)

Effect of the Temperature of Conversion on the Ratio of Sugars to Dextrins

     Conversion                 Ratio of Sugar
        Temp.                    to Dextrins
     ----------                 --------------

       147.2F                       1:0.37
       150.8F                       1:0.40
       154.4F                       1:0.48
       158.0F                       1:0.52
       161.6F                       1:0.57

     Hopefully, this info will be of some use in calculating the change in
final gravity vs. mash temperature.

     Another interesting exerpt is the ratio of malt to adjuncts in American
lager over the years.

                             1937     1946     1956
     %malt per barrel       72.41    57.38    65.53
     % adjuncts " "         27.59    42.62    34.47
     % " (hops) " "          1.21     0.98     0.804

     This data was extracted by the authors from _Annual Reports to the
Commisioner_  US Treasury Dept., Internal Revenue Service, Alcohol and Tobacco
Tax division, for the fiscal years noted above.  I'm going to have to see if I
can find the relavent BATF reports for a more current year to see how much 
more commercial beer has been diluted in this country.

     The most popular adjunct was corn (1956 - 21.293%), followed by rice
(10.377%), Sugar and syrups (2.671%), wheat (0.091%), soybeans and byproducts
(0.021%), sorghum (0.0009%), and barley (unmalted) (0.0002%)

     The hopping rate fell from 10 oz. per barrel (31 US gal.) to 5.8 oz. per
barrel over the period.  Assuming 5% alpha Cluster or Cascade hops, that works
out to a high of about 8 AAU down to about 4.7 AAU.  Pretty sad, IMHO.

     Hope you all find this interesting/useful.

==============================================================================
Todd Enders                    ARPA: root%bolshoi.UUCP at plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center                UUCP: uunet!plains!bolshoi!root
Minot State University           or: hplabs!hp-lsd!plains!bolshoi!root
Minot, ND 58701              Bitnet: root%bolshoi.UUCP at plains.bitnet
==============================================================================



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Date:      Wed, 31 Jul 1991 05:35:39 GMT
From: "Todd Enders -- WD0BCI" <cos.hp.com!plains!bolshoi!root at hp-lsd>
Subject:   A Short Note on pH


     Here's what an old brewing volume has to say on the issue of pH:

     According to Hopkins & Krause, the yeild of extract in a mash is maximum
at a pH of 5.0 - 5.2.  Beta amylase is very active at this pH as well as
protease.  Maltose formation and attenuation are best at a pH of approx. 5.5.
This value is excellent for filtration (sparging) also.  At pH values below 
5.0, amino nitrogen (sic) is formed at a maximum rate.

     Tannin and bitter resins are dissolved from the husk more readily at
higher pH values, since they are weakly acidic in nature.  Color, likewise
is extracted better at higher pH values.

          _Industrial Microbiology_ 3rd. ed. Prescott & Dunn, 1959

     The Hopkins and Krause citation was extracted from:

     Hopkins, R. H. and C. B. Krause: "Biochemistry Applied to Malting and
Brewing", 2nd. ed., D Van Nostrand Co., Inc. 1947.

============================================================================
Todd Enders - WD0BCI               ARPA: root%bolshoi.UUCP at plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center                    UUCP: uunet!plains!bolshoi!root
Minot State University               or: hplabs!hp-lsd!plains!bolshoi!root
Minot, ND 58701                  Bitnet: root%bolshoi.UUCP at plains.bitnet
============================================================================



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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 10:47:36 -0400
From: nnieuwej at pooh.bowdoin.edu
Subject: Re: Bread Yeast

I've been extremely fortunate in my short life; I have only made
one batch of beer that was undrinkable.  While there are many
opportunities for a batch to go awry and it is frequently difficult
to pinpoint exactly what went wrong when a beer doesn't quite meet
you expectations, I'm pretty sure I've nailed down the cause of my one
brewing disaster.
  I was making dinner for my fiance and her parents last summer.  A big pot
of my world famous chili (made with my less than world famous homebrew)
had been on the back burner for the better part of the day.  I had a loaf
of bread in the oven and a bubbling brew-cauldron on the front burner.
My roommate (and usual brewpartner) was unexpectedly called in to work, so
my fiance was pressed into service.  Just before dinner was served, she
and I strained the schmod (see the definition at the bottom) and set the
hot wort aside to cool.
  Several hours later, her parents had (thankfully) left and she and I went
back to the evening's true work: the beer.  I opened the fridge and reached
for the yeast.  The shelf was empty (shades of Mother Hubbard...).  Refusing
to panic I carefully searched the entire refrigerator from top to bottom,
hoping that my dastardly roommate had moved it (for what had better be a
damn good reason...).   I was finally forced to accept the fact that my mind
had snapped and I had used the last of the brewers yeast in the bread and 
that all I had left for the beer was the bread yeast.
  Well, to cut a long story short, it was the worst beer I've ever tasted.
To this day, it is still the only beer I've ever poured on the garden.  Of
course, it may not have been due to the bread yeast, but I can't imagine
what else could have gone that for wrong.  I don't know who asked about bread
yeast making yucky beer, but I hope this answers your question.

Now, I have a question of my own.  What is the difference between bread yeast
and brewers yeast?

            -Nils

schmod: 1. The grains left in the wort at the end of the boil that must be
           strained off.
        2. The yeast sediment (also called gunk) that accumulates in the
           bottom of the fermenter.
        3. The sediment in the bottle.  ("Wow, there's a lot of schmod in that
                                          beer!")
        4. Anything useless or unwanted.  ("Get that schmod off my desk!"
                                           "Don't listen to him, he's just
                                            talking schmod.")

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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 08:32:04 PDT
From: Richard.Stueven at Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven)
Subject: Re:  Surface Mail address for AHA

In HBD# 691, Bob Allen (not *the* Bob Allen...?) asks for the surface
mail address for the AHA.  I thought it might be of general interest to
post it here.

American Homebrewers Association
P.O. Box 287
Boulder CO  80306-0287 USA
303-447-0816

have fun

gak  (AHA# 22584)

I guess there's some things          |      Seems like the more I think I know
I'm not meant to understand          |                 The more I find I don't
Ain't life a riot? Ain't love grand? | Every answer opens up so many questions
Richard Stueven                gak at Corp.Sun.COM                ...!attmail!gak

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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 09:29 CDT
From: arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: SKIMMING

 
 To: Homebrew Digest
 Fm: Jack Schmidling
 
 
 Here is another myth I need to get sorted out.....
 
 I have always skimmed the foam off the primary ferment just prior to its 
 falling back in because most books say you will get yeat bite if you don't.
 
 The guy who runs the local brew shop says it is not necessary.
 
 One book I read said it is only necessary with ale yeast.
 
 And then we come to another gem from:
 
                      "BREW IT YOURSELF"
                       by Leigh P Beadle
 
 "If you look into the fermenter, you will see a rich foamy head bubbling on 
 top.  This head is composed mainly of resins from the hops, which are forced 
 up by the carbon dioxide bubbles.  Some books advocate skimming off the head, 
 but this should never be done because it contains all the oils and resins 
 that will give the beer its body, aroma, and characteristic beer taste."
 
 I was going to plagiarize his title for the "how to" video we are producing 
 but I am having serious second thoughts.  Anybody have an idea for a title?
 A free copy to anyone whose title is selected.
 
 We are covering root beer, ginger ale and simple beer.  Lots of micro and 
 timelapse stuff.
 
 ...........
 
 
 
 
ZZ

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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 11:00:08 CDT
From: sja at grog.cray.com (Sheridan Adams)
Subject: Re: pressure cooker for Malt Aromatics 

> 
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 91 08:18:33 EDT
> From: cookson at bccnxt.mitre.org (Dean Cookson)
> Subject: Re: Malt Aromatics.
> 
> I can't really see just a simple cover keeping in much in the
> way of volitiles.  Now if you tried using a pressure cooker...
> Anyone want to give it a go??
> 
> Dean
> 
I have been looking at getting a pressure cooker for vegetable canning
and thought about using it for beer.  Since a pressure cooker raises
the boiling temperature, could that in fact hurt the beer.  Also, one
couldn't add any thing to the wort once the pressure was on. (without
serious consequences 8-) 



>   Please define what constitutes a CREAM ALE.  Another mystery of brewing.
> 	...Ralph...  ("What's going to happen.....Something wonderful!!!")
Half half & half and half ale?


From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
> After careful research and experimentation, I have determined that :
> 
> 	ppm = 42;
> 	mg/l = 6 X 8;
> 
> Further evidence suggests that these two quantities may in fact be equal,
> but the program is still running.
If your program says they are equal you've got a problem. 8-)

- -- 

	Nirvana - Where Wheel of Fortune contestants stand

			Sheridan J. Adams
			sja at grog.cray.com
			(612) 683-3030

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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 09:04:45 PDT
From: polstra!jdp at uunet.UU.NET (John Polstra)
Subject: Malt Aroma

In HBD #691, ralph at ecn.purdue.edu (Ralph L McCallister) speculated about
malt aroma:

> I seems that the German beers seem to impart that malt aroma and
> taste.  There seems to be a corrilation between this and the type of
> barley they use.

I agree with that.  One of our local homebrew supply shops (Liberty
Malt Supply) somehow secured a connection for true German malts (i.e.,
imported) about 9 months ago.  Several of us lager brewers (Norm Hardy
is another name you'll recognize) have been making a lot of beers from
these malts.  I've been amazed at how different the results have been.
There is much more of a malty nose, with the honey-like aroma that the
good German lagers have.  The body seems to be much better, too.

   John Polstra               polstra!jdp at uunet.uu.net
   Polstra & Co., Inc.           ...!uunet!polstra!jdp
   Seattle, Washington USA              (206) 932-6482
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."  -- John Barth

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Date: 31 July 1991 10:54:34 CDT
From: "Roger Deschner" <U52983 at UICVM.uic.edu>
Subject: Boulder Beers

Last autumn, the perpetually-financially-ailing Boulder Brewery was
bought by the highly successful Walnut Brewery, a really good brew-pub
just off the Pearl St. Mall in Downtown Boulder. Apparently Walnut did
not have sufficient capacity to serve everyone who walked in the front
door, and also they wanted to bottle some of their beer. Therefore, the
deal was a natural - Boulder Beers would still be made at Boulder
Brewery, Walnut would make its Buffalo Gold Beer at Boulder as well, both
for consumption at the brewpub and to be bottled, and there was finally
enough money in the operation to keep it afloat. (Boulder Brewery is
about four miles away from Walnut Brew-pub.)

I always thought Boulder Stout suffered from inconsistency, but that
their Porter was good to the point of being one of the best Porters
anywhere in the US. The Porter remains good (when fresh, as it was a week
ago when I got it in Boulder) even while they don't quite have it
together on Stout. Their realignment of the sundry shades of Amber Ale
has simplified things somewhat, with the very nice darker amber ale for
us beer-geeks and the lighter amber ale positioned for the Lite beer
crowd.

The Boulder Brewery remains one of the best photo-opportunities in the
area. The scene of the brewery in front of the Flatirons (those rock
formations pictured on the Boulder Beer label) is breathtaking.
Inspirational, even. (The light is best for photos in the morning.)

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Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1991 13:36:21 EDT
From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: wet-hop


  Hey, easy now, I never said to *boil* the hops to make a hops tea.  I said
to *heat* them.  Boiling will release the volatiles that you are trying to
get.  Steeping hops with the heat off after the boil will probably release
a lot of the volatiles too; the temp. is still pretty hot.  Maybe "tea" was
the wrong word.  I was suggesting heating the hops/water/(alcohol?) mix
just up to the point where the hops oils will be released from the hops,
*into the water*, not into the air.   An alternate approach would be to
steep the hops in room temp. sterile beer (or vodka, etc.) for a few weeks, 
then strain and add that to the secondary.

  Bad news:  My very first harvest of hops went bad.  I guess I didn't dry
them out enough.  Bummer.....

Russ

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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1991 10:37:31 -0800
From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Subject: pitching dregs, bottle activity

>I read somewhere (maybe Noonan?) that yeast bite is more of a concern of 
>commercial breweries, and that homebrewers weren't likely to encounter it
>unless they pitched the entire dregs from one batch into another.
>
>In any case, it sounds like yeast bite is nothing to *worry* about.
>
>CR
>

I've been repitching the entire slurry from the bottom of my secondary
fermentor two or three times before starting a fresh culture. Nothing's bit
me yet.

====================

>
>I know the key is to relax and not worry, but I am concerned.  Me and a
>buddy bottled last Fri night, and now 4 days later the bottles do not
>show any sign of activity.  Should we be able to see something going on
>in there?  

No.

>There is some sediment that could be new yeast that's settled,
>but I don't see any bubbles from CO2.  Is my concern warranted?  

No.

>If the
>yeast has croaked, should we open the bottles and pop some new yeast in
>each one? 

No.

>
>Thanks,
>
>- --Randy--

=======================

Has anyone else noticed that Darryl Richman is an anagram for Mild Harry
Ran C? Coincidence? I don't think so...



Ken Weiss                                  krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Manager of Instruction
Computing Services                         916/752-5554
U.C. Davis
Davis, CA 95616


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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 09:32:09 PDT
From: jerry at octelb.octel.com (Jerry Burch)
Subject: RE: YEAST

Regarding the question about using bread yeast for beer: 

I made a batch where I used both Red Star Ale Yeast and 
Red Star Active Dry Yeast because after having just had my
first batch after moving fail on me and because the supplies
for the second batch came from the same place I didn't really
trust the yeast they gave me. I had intended to get some fresh
yeast from a different place but had forgotten till it came
time to pitch. I pitched the Ale Yeast and then, since it was late
on a Sunday the two stores in the area are closed on Monday,
went to the grocery and bought and pitched two packets of Active
Dry Yeast.

I *thought* I could detect a slightly bread-like smell when I
opened the fermenter to rack to the secondary but the beer
turned out real good.

For my last several batches I used a brand of dry yeast,
I beleive it was called Whitbread, I bougth from Beer Makers
of America on 4th Street in San Jose. It comes in a silver
foil packet. It is faster acting than other brands I have used.
The active portion in the primary takes 1-1/2 rather than 3-4
days. I haven't tried any of the finished product yet as it is
conditioning but the yeast seems to work well.

Jerry Burch

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Date: 30 Jul 91 (12:56)
From: Mark Nickel <hplabs!kpc!uunet!canrem!mark.nickel>
Subject: lager question


As a relatively new homebrewer(working on my sixth batch), I was hoping
that the digest can give me some advice.

My latest effort has seen me attempt to make Papazian's honey lager.
After making, cooling, and then shaking the hell out of my wort, I
added a package of liquid lager yeast which I had started several days
earlier.  I then placed my wort in the fridge.  It has been 32 hours
and so far nothing.  Should I have waited for active fermentation before
placing the wort in the fridge?  Any suggestion on how to remedy this
situation would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Mark
mark.nickel%canrem at lsuc.on.ca
- --
Canada Remote Systems.  Toronto, Ontario
NorthAmeriNet Host


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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 13:41:31 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: Missing Fermentation

Randy writes:
>I know the key is to relax and not worry, but I am concerned.  Me and a
>buddy bottled last Fri night, and now 4 days later the bottles do not
>show any sign of activity.  Should we be able to see something going on
>in there?  There is some sediment that could be new yeast that's settled,
>but I don't see any bubbles from CO2.  Is my concern warranted?  If the
>yeast has croaked, should we open the bottles and pop some new yeast in
>each one?  We did the original fermentation in a 5 gal carboy with a blow
>off tube and then later put on an airlock when things calmed down.  The
>entire time in the carboy was 13 days.

No, no, and no.  Relax.  Try a bottle every week till you think the
beer has the proper level of carbonation.  Then, begin consuming it.

Al.


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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 16:37:01 bst
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas%loughborough.ac.uk at hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re : kegging

Regarding the virtues of British plastic kegs, beware of your brand ! The
cheap and nastiest ones often possess no pressure relief valve, and
consequently are liable to distortion. Another critical design feature is
the pressure rating of the tap, with 'drum' taps (round handles) being
superior. I am afraid that Boots' reputation is mud amongst most serious
brewers here. Hambleton Bard's Supercask (ie, 6 galls) is one I can
personally endorse. Assuming conditioning requires about 3 weeks at room
temperature, the cask will hold condition for approximately another 3 weeks
before a CO2 boost is required. Of course, if you consume the contents
rapidly, you may require earlier boosts just to equalise the pressure and
make the beer flow.

Other features to look for : an intake valve which permits slide-on rather
than screw-on gas cylinders, plastic valves (resistant to steriliser
corrosion), wide necks for internal cleaning, translucent body which shows
the beer level (therefore, do not store in strong light).

Judging from some comments on the net, some of you in the US do not seem
familiar with draught brewing techniques. One of the aims, surprisingly
enough, is to consume the beer fresh, before the aromatic content has
degraded. The standard practice is to employ a 5-7 day primary ferment,
after which the beer is fined, primed and possibly dry hopped
simultaneously in the cask. The character of a draught beer is totally
unlike the same bottle-conditioned beer, possessing a much creamier head
and less 'tingle' on the tongue. Some of the more extreme members of CAMRA
object to top conditioning (ie, CO2 boosting) on the grounds that this
practice over-carbonates the beer, but I personally can't taste the
difference and think the claim is scientifically dubious anyway.

Cask lager is also a possibility, although obviously a typical lager
carbonation will not be obtained. Chilling could also be a problem.  

Conn V Copas                                   tel : (0509)263171  ext 4164
Loughborough University of Technology          fax : (0509)610815
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre            
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU                    e-mail -    
G Britain                         (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut  
                     (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk







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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 17:39:27 bst
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas%loughborough.ac.uk at hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re : Controlling fermenter temperature

David Taylor writes :

>I'm thinking of building a cabinet large enough for three fermenters, heating >it
>with light bulbs, stirring the air with a computer cooling fan and controlling
>the temp. with the water bed thermostat.


The easiest solution to your problem is to build an insulated cupboard with
an electric towel-rail(s) as the heat source (much safer to leave
unattended than anything with a motor or an exposed element in it; also,
the brew may not benefit from too much light exposure). I have never found
a circulation fan to be necessary. The wattage of the rail will determine
the maximum heat output. If you just want the thing for Winter, you may
find that a fixed, low wattage heater left on constantly will maintain the
brew within acceptable limits. The next more sophisticated solution is to
fit a rheostat to the heater, which will allow you to control the heat
output manually, similar to operating an electric stove. Lastly, you could
fit the thermostat, which will maintain a constant temperature by switching
the heater on and off automatically. Water is admittedly a more stable
medium than air, but think of all the construction problems !

Despite what manufacturers such as Coopers claim, warm ferments are a
disadvantage for any brew which has pretensions of taste cleaness, such as
lagers or standard gravity bitters. The 'homebrew flavour' is just too
noticeable (in fact, I would avoid Coopers yeast entirely). I would
recommend fermenting at 15-16 degrees, although this does not stop you
pitching the yeast at up to 25 degrees, or conducting the first couple of
days of bottle conditioning at 25 degrees for quicker maturation. I have
found my brews to stabilise at around 11-12 degrees inside during a NSW
Winter (regardless of time of day), so you may not need too much extra
heating. The bigger problem can be Summer cooling, because that definitely
requires water as a medium ! 

Conn V Copas                                   tel : (0509)263171  ext 4164
Loughborough University of Technology          fax : (0509)610815
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre            
Leicestershire  LE11 3TU                    e-mail -    
G Britain                         (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut  
                     (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk







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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 11:54:16 MST
From: scott at alecto.gordian.com (Scott Murphy)
Subject: bread yeast in beer

Just to stir up more trouble...

the 1989 special issue of Zymurgy ( Yeast & Beer issue) has an article by Kurt 
Denke on using bread yeast.  He recommends Budweiser Baking Yeast no sold under
the name Fleischmann's Yeast.  After primary fermentation at 50 to 52 F, he
lagers the beer for serveral weeks.  
	According to Kurt, "the flavor is extremely clean and lagerlike, and I
have been able to brew beers of very light, delicate character that are 
comparable in their cleanliness of flavor to commercial beers."

hope this helps

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Date:     Wed, 31 Jul 91 14:27:40 CST
From: blazek at d.cs.okstate.edu

Please cancel subscription,
have graduated and lost net
access, greatly enjoyed the letter.

Thanks,
 -eric

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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 16:27:11 -0400
From: drk at ll.mit.edu (Dave Kohr)
Subject: My _Zymurgy_ hasn't shown up; phone number/address for AHA

I hear people on this digest talking about the Summer '91 issue of
_Zymurgy_.  Mine hasn't shown up yet; how long ago did others get their
copies?  Also, does anyone have a phone number or address where I can
contact the AHA?

Thanks,

David R. Kohr     M.I.T. Lincoln Laboratory      Group 45 (Radars 'R' Us)
     email:    drk at ll.mit.edu (preferred)  or  drk at athena.mit.edu
     phone:    (617)981-0775 (work)        or  (617)527-3908 (home)

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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 14:20 CDT
From: korz at ihlpl.att.com
Subject: Re: yet another stuck...

Dan Strahs writes:
>	My third batch of homebrew has been stuck now for about 3 weeks.
	
	[Standard recipe deleted - but next time lose the sugar and salt
	and don't boil your grains...remove them when the liquor (water)
	comes to a boil]

>	The wort bubbled for a few hours the next day and stopped.  I waited
>a week, siphoned off some of the wort, re-boiled, placed in a sterile beer
>bottle fitted with an airlock and added another packet of Red Star Ale Yeast
>to that.  The next day that was going strongly, so I pitched it back into 
>the primary.  The primary fermented longer this time (about a day) before
>slacking and dying.  The ferment has now been stationary for more that 2
>weeks.  

Is there a big temperature change around the fermentor daytime to nightime?  
Wide swings in temperature can shock the yeast into dormancy or worse.
Al.
korz at ihlpl.att.com

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Date:         Wed, 31 Jul 91 14:12:14 PDT
From: Curt Ames <7872P%NAVPGS.BITNET at CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject:      Christmas Brew

I'm looking for that special holiday brew made with any Christmas-type herbs an
d spices.  Anyone have a favorite mix out there for a dark, high alcohol winter
 brew.  Also looking for good prices on a small kegging system (individual).
......Save Water, Drink Beer
Curt....7872p at NAVPS
    ....7872p at cc.nps.navy.mil

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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 20:33:27 EDT
From: SERETNY%csv310.dnet at uhasun.hartford.edu
Subject: Query about Beer/Ale brewing reference

	Has anyone a brewing reference work similar to the way Michael
Jackson's "New World Guide..." is a masterwork for Beers of the World?  I have
a C. J. J. Berry book on brewing, but it sticks too much to recipes (most
of which employ malt liquid extract of some kind).  It's a pretty good book
for technique (sparging is covered very well, for instance).  I'm interested
in learning about the various malts, adjuncts (MJ's book well covers which
beer styles use what, but since it's not a brewer's text, it rarely goes into
proportions, &c), and even the all the different charachteristic of the
various hops.  Essentially, I'm looking for some book (or books) which will
not only well ground in the brewer's craft, but also provide a comprehensive
body of reference data.
	Incidentally, the brewers' magazines are valuable for locating the
various ingredients (such as some particular Saaz hops or type of malt).

				Thank you,
				Robert M. Seretny

Please email any responses, and I'll summarise them back as a service to other
neos out there.

emails: seretny at uhavax.decnet at uhasun.hartford.edu
- --or--
rseretny at uhasun.hartford.edu  (not preferred)

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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1991 22:04 EST
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: Skimmin', boilin', & defendin'

>Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org

>Well, IMHO (not IMBO), I have never heard of skimming of this hot
>break (I think you are referring to the hot break).  I just
>siphon off it after the boil is finished.

>So, can anyone come up with a reason to skim?

I've been skimming the creamy head that forms on wort as it comes
to a boil for several years.  I first started doing it because I 
noticed that it eliminated boil-over. I tasted the stuff once 
while I was skimming.  Astringent would describe it well.  So I 
continued skimming to help eliminate that taste as well.  I've had 
no problem with head retention in my beers as a result. 

>From: Dan Strahs  <strahs at murex.bioc.aecom.yu.edu>

>        Started off with 1 can M+F light unhopped, boiled with 1 lb. crushed
>crystal malt, 1 lb. corn sugar, 2 oz. Cluster hops and 1 tsp. non-iodized table

I'm not sure about the answer to your original question.  Just 
wanted to point out that you shouldn't boil the crystal malt with 
the extract.  Steep it in a bag as your water comes to a boil.  
Remove the bag when the temperature hits the neighborhood of 170 
degrees F.  Boiling grains will extract tannins, giving the beer 
an unwanted astringency.

Kinney Baughman     

Oh, yes. I almost forgot....

>From: srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu (Stephen Russell)

>ps  Despite rumors circulating to the contrary, I am *not* Darryl Richman, but
>I do believe that a certain tall, lanky North Carolinian just might be.

Indeed, suh, I must defend mah honoh, mah integrity, not to mention mah 
fambly.  As most o'de good folks on dis net knows, ah have been known to be 
confused.  And ah've even been confused wid udder folks.  But ah've nevah, 
in all my born days, been confused wid anyone less than 6 feet tall befoah.  
Now, ah cahn't sweah to it, but ah think ah saw sumpin' what looked lak dat 
Richman fella at de confrence.  Wuddn't he runnin' around sportin' a funny 
lookin' little short billed hat and playin' on dat toy computah of his'n?  
Or was dat you? 


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #692, 08/01/91
*************************************
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