---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  German Beer (SWELTON)
  Beer in Germany
  RE: Time to Pour and Guinness ("espo02::anderson")
  Births and Homebrew (John DeCarlo)
  singha & Indian brews (DAVID)
  misc. ??s (Andy Kurtz)
  mead recipies requested (Michael Tighe)
  The two faces of Guiness (Mike Zentner)
  Re: Singha and Indian Beer (Steve Thornton)
  Singha ("John W. Reed")
  Slow pouring brews (BAUGHMANKR)
  Singha (John Freeman)
  Gold Country Homebrewers festival (krweiss)
  Re: more brewpot queries (Ken Giles)
  Real Life Dry Hopping Efficiencies (Tom Strasser)
  Newsgroup (Robert N Keil)
  Reusing yeast (Norm Hardy)
  Singha and other things.... (SERETNY)
  Whitbred Ale yeast (Chuck Coronella)
  Toxic Homebrew (hersh)
  Damn Lies & PPM (hersh)
  Sparging Bags (Don McDaniel)
  Help Wanted at Homebrew Store (Boston Area) (hersh)
  Re: Singha.. (Chris Shenton)
  Re: Malt aromas and DMS (larryba)
  Re: Suitable refrigerators (larryba)
  sparge apparatus [was: more brewpot queries] (Chris Shenton)
  Yeast Lifetime Expectancy (Tom Quinn 5-4291)
  Re: New edition of Papazian's book due out soon. (Kevin L. McBride)
  Re: Singha (Kevin L. McBride)
  Yet More on Bux & Brewpubs (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Hop Honey (wbt)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Aug 91 11:09:43 CET
From: SWELTON%ESOC.BITNET at YALEVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: German Beer

Date: 07 August 1991, 11:08:05 CET
From: SWELTON  at ESOC
To:   homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com

I sent the following to Todd Fisher regarding German beers but noticing
more talk I thought I'd post it to the digest.

Subject: Beer in Germany

Date: 06 August 1991, 09:55:07 CET
From: SWELTON  at ESOC
To:   tfisher  at brl.mil

Todd,
   I saw your request about beers in Germany, so just happening to live
here I thought I'd pass on some information. In the pubs here you will
more than likely find 4 different types of beer. Probably the most common
is Pils (Pilsner), this is what you will get if you just ask for a bier.
This is probably closest to an American beer, but stronger. The next most
popular is Export which is similiar to Pils but stronger and tends to be
served in tankards (and is my favourite). Also on draught is a dark beer
called Alt, this is reasonbly close to an English beer, but where you're
going is not likely to be very common, but if you do see it, try it. German
pubs don't tend to stock bottled beer's but the one that you are most likely
to find is a Weizen beer which comes in two types. Kristal Weizen which is
clear and Hever Weizen which is dark and cloudy. These beers are usually
served with either a slice of lemon or a few grains of rice (have'nt got
a clue why). I personally don't like them as they have a slight banana taste.
 Every area has it's different breweries so I can't recommend any but one's
to look out for - IMHO - are Pfungstadter, Schmuker, Bitburger and Eder.
 They also have some variations that they they drink here which some people
find weird. A good one is Diesel which is 1/2 Export, 1/2 Coke which isn't
as bad as it sounds. Then there is Grafelder (or muddy water) which is
1/2 Alt, 1/2 Coke and is quite nice. Then there are such things as 1/2
Export and 1/2 Fanta orange and Berliner Weizenbier which is a Weiz beer
with a rasberry cordial.
 German pubs tend to be very good with the amjority serving good food but
as with all pubs check first as it might not be the right type.

re. Bitburger Pils by us Brits living over here is not considered
a particularly good beer, but compared to a lot of other beers
that are available it's okay.

There is a kind of rule in Germany that a Bier (only Pils) should
take 7 minutes to pour. If your beer comes quicker than that you
complain. But you can always ask for a schnell Pils.

 Hope some of this helps.

Seb


~ Sebastian J. Welton              | SWELTON at ESOC.BITNET              ~
~ European Space Operations Centre | MVS + VM Operations Analyst      ~
~ Darmstadt, Germany               | C.S.S.G. ECD/CS Meteosat Ops.    ~
                Standard disclaimers ensue herewith

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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 04:17:05 PDT
From: "espo02::anderson" at newoa.enet.dec.com
Subject: RE: Time to Pour and Guinness


In response to Michael Bass and Bill Thacker concerning time to pour
and Guinness:

I've lived in Germany, Ireland and now the U.K.  The way a beer is poured
*does* matter.

In Germany, a Ma_ is generally poured quickly (this however causes a lot
of complaints at bierfests such as Oktoberfest that you get 3/4 liter
beer and 1/4 foam).

However, a Pils is poured slowly down the side and builds a very large
head.  This is allowed to rest and then refilled (can take 5+ minutes)

A Wei_bier is poured from the bottle into the tall glass by inverting
the bottle into the beer as it fills the glass just under the surface; if
done correctly, this causes the foam to be sucked back up into the bottle,
which is placed on its side and allowed to rest and then poured into the
glass.
If done incorrectly, you get a real mess.
 
In Ireland, pouring a pint is ritual.  However, after sampling an
uncounted number of Guinness (and Murphy's) I do believe it does make
a difference.  To properly pour the pint you place the glass at an
angle and place it against the tap and pull the handle towards yourself.
This causes the Guinness to pour slowly into the glass.  As it reachs
the top, the glass is straightened; this starts creating the foamy head.
When the glass is nearly full, it is placed on the counter to rest.
The "bubbles" are diffused thoughout the drink and slowly rise to the
top, turning the pint from brown to black.  When this is complete
(about 2-3 minutes), it is topped up again by pulling the handle towards
yourself.  Then, the handle is pushed away.  This causes an injection
which really builds a head.  This again is allowed to settle (about 1-2
minutes).  Then it is offered to the customer.  The secret is in the tap.

Why does this actually make a difference? The head of a Guinness is
very creamy and bitter (the creamyness comes from nitrogen).  A good
Guinness should have a head that lasts until the drink is finished.  When
you drink it you get a little bit of the head with each sip.  This blends
the bitterness properly.

================
Kent Anderson

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Date: Wednesday, 7 Aug 1991 07:18:11 EDT
From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Births and Homebrew

>This *is* a hombrew list, so to keep to the topic, I've been
 ...
>Pale Ale, and of course, lots of homebrew.  It's particularly
>nice to toast your son with your own homebrew...

Another proper way to celebrate is to brew a commemorative brew.
I brewed one last year in May called "New Baby Wheat", and one
again this May called "Year Old Baby Wheat".  (Pretty imaginative
eh?)

If you get inspired, you can scan in pictures of the baby at the
appropriate age and put those on the label.

Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
           (or John.DeCarlo at f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet:  1:109/131

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Date:    Wed, 7 Aug 1991 8:45:16 EDT
From: POORE at SCRI1.SCRI.FSU.EDU (DAVID)
Subject: singha & Indian brews

>Re: the Singha beer - I don't believe it's Indian. I know of a couple
>of Indian beers you can get at import stores - one is called UB
>(united breweries) and the other one is Kingfisher which I recommend.

Singha is Thai, and when it is fresh it's pretty good. Fairly rich malty 
flavor and amazing head characteristics reminiscent of a Beligian Trappiste 
(thick, creamy, and perpetual).

Another pretty good Indian beer is Golden Eagle (or some close permutation 
thereof), which is an ok lager. Always interests me to think about 
'colonial' brews and the influence they show from their European 
progenitors (eg. San Miguel, Mexican brews, Carribbean, etc.)

David Poore
poore at gw.scri.fsu.edu

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Date: Wed,  7 Aug 91 09:05:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andy Kurtz <ak35+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: misc. ??s

A few questions's all:

Has anyone out there tried M&F's wheat extract?  According to the can
its a 55% wheat/45% barley combo.  As my local store was out of Ireks, I
purchased two cans of this for a wheat beer.  Anybody know what I can
expect?

I'd also be interested in hearing people's opinions of M.eV.'s liquid
wheat-beer yeast #33.  Again, what can I expect in the way of viability,
temp. tolerance, stamina (some liquid yeasts need a good jump-start
outside of the foil packet before introduction into the wort) and above
all, taste. 

One last (which I know has probably been addressed many times in the past...):
Does B-brite sterilize?

- --andy    


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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 09:14:31 EDT
From: tighe at inmet.camb.inmet.com (Michael Tighe)
Subject: mead recipies requested

> Su Misra (t13329 at Calvin.EDU (Percy)) writes:
> I'm looking for a recipe for mead. 

Here's my "standby" - 

	2 pounds of honey per gallon of water
	one thumb-sized piece of ginger per gallon of water
	grated skin of orange peel (two tablespoons/gal and avoid
	   the white pith of the peel as much as possible)

	bring the honey and water to a boil skimming off the white 
	and brown foam as you heat it

	simmer/skim for about 5 minutes per gallon (5gal == 20 min)

	when the boiling is almost done, add the ginger and orange peel

	cool (I usually let it cool "naturally").

	work with yeast (Werka Mead Yeast is good, champagne or
	general purpose wine yeast will do)

	bottle after two weeks (while it's still sweet and still
	quite active)

	refrigerate the bottles after another two weeks (to avoid
	the glass grenade syndrome and to make the yeast settle out
	of the mead)

	To quote the original source: "It will be quick and pleasant
	from the very start and will keep for a month or more."

Variants:

	Add lots more honey and let it ferment till it stops.  Bottle
	and wait a month or more, you get champagne.

	Use some other citris fruit peel, such as lemon or grapefruit.

	Add some other fruit flavoring (crushed berries of some sort).

	Load up on the ginger (my friend makes "death by ginger" by
	using pounds of ginger per gallon!)

Have fun, and may the yeasty-beasties be kind to you!


Michael Tighe
Intermetrics Microsystems Software Inc.
Cambridge, MA 02138 (USA)
email: tighe at inmet.camb.inmet.com                  

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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 09:08:29 -0500
From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Mike Zentner)
Subject: The two faces of Guiness


Bill Thacker writes:
> Also, his description of the flavor didn't match with my own very well,
> giving me to wonder if this bar might be serving the *real* draught Guinness
> as found in Ireland (it *is* an Irish pub).

I've had both versions.  The last time I had it was a severe disappointment.
It was thin, translucent!!!!, and did not have a non-quitting head, not
at all like the real thing.  If, in the future I see a bar advertising
Guiness on tap, I'll certainly order a glass before getting rooked on a
pitcher.

Mike Zentner

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Date:         Wed, 07 Aug 91 10:48:58 EST
From: Steve Thornton <NETWRK at HARVARDA.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Singha and Indian Beer

>Re: the Singha beer - I don't believe it's Indian. I know of a couple
>of Indian beers you can get at import stores - one is called UB
>(united breweries) and the other one is Kingfisher which I recommend.
>It's bloody expensive though.

Singha is from Thailand. I've never seen UB (available in England only?) But
Kingfisher, in 12 oz. and 25? oz. bottles is widely available in the US,
particularly in Indian restaurants. Another I've seen is Golden Eagle. The
Kingfisher is an Indian brand and an Indian recipe but the US bottles say
"brewed under contract in England" or some such on them, which is wierd.
Golden Eagle appears to be really from India. I'm not real crazy about
any of them, but then I'm a dedicated ale drinker. Keep your lager.

Steve

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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 11:05:19 EDT
From: "John W. Reed" <johnreed at BOSTON.vnet.ibm.com>
Subject: Singha

I've tried it and it's good stuff.  It's Thai beer.  Goes well with spicy
Thai cuisine...


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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1991 11:41 EDT
From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: Slow pouring brews

>Michael Bass writes:
>
>> I had the good fortune to attend a conference in Berlin, Germany.
>> One of the interesting features of the way they
>> server beers: Apparently the length of time it takes to pour a beer is
>> a measure of the quality of the beer and the bartender.  

Boy is that ever a reversal of what we expect on this side of the puddle.
Whatever the case with the bartender,  I certainly don't see a one-to-one 
correspondence between quality of brew and length of pour.
>
>Coincidentally, a friend of mine, in a telephone call Sunday night,
>mentioned discovering a bar in Chicago which served Guinness on tap.
>He marvelled that it took several minutes to pour the beer, because of the
>foaming, and asked me what that meant.
>
>Several possibilities dawned on me, including the "new keg" foaminess
>mentioned here, but he assured me that he'd investigated for a sufficiently
>long time to see the keg well on its way toward emptiness. 8-)
>
>Also, his description of the flavor didn't match with my own very well,
>giving me to wonder if this bar might be serving the *real* draught Guinness
>as found in Ireland (it *is* an Irish pub).
>
>All this makes me curious.  I can imagine ways that the type of pouring
>might affect the beer; a good frothy pour would release more aroma to
>tickle the nose, and perhaps the entrainment of air somehow emphasizes
>the flavor and/or body.  So how is beer poured for competition judging ?
>
As for Guinness, the foamy pour results from the special tap system they 
employ.  There are two inlets for compressed gas in a Guinness tap.  One 
introduces more or less 25% nitrogen.  The rest is CO2.  I've always been 
told that it's the nitrogen that gives draft Guinness its extraordinary 
head.

My question is: do they do they same in Germany for their beers?  If they 
do, I've never heard of it.  The one time I was in Germany, I didn't 
notice the bartenders taking any longer to pour a brew than they do over 
here.  Then again, I wasn't in Bavaria where I understand long pours are 
common.

So are the long pours in Germany a function of the tap system or the 
style of beer?  Expiring minds want to know.

Kinney Baughman                 |     Beer is my business and 
baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu  |     I'm late for work.



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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 10:49:34 CDT
From: jlf at poplar.cray.com (John Freeman)
Subject: Singha

> Re: the Singha beer - I don't believe it's Indian. 

Singha is made in Thailand.  I have a Singha Brewery T-shirt
that I got in Bangkok.

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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1991 08:48:48 -0800
From: krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Subject: Gold Country Homebrewers festival

The Sacramento Bee ran a front-page-of-the-Metro section article on the
recent homebrew festival run by the Gold Country Brewers Assn. The
publicity was substantially more positive than the last GCBA event, the
infamous "Smoker you drink the driver you get" display reported by Martin
Lodahl. Yo, Martin, were you a judge at this thing? How about a report? The
Bee says it was the third largest homebrew contest in the US of A...

Steve Russell -- an anagram for Ever Lustless. Coincidence or a mark of
Satanic involvement in the whole Darryl/Steve dichotomy? You be the
judge... As for me, I'm brewing a batch of garlic-jalapeno beer to ward off
evil influences while reading this digest.


Ken Weiss                                  krweiss at ucdavis.edu
Manager of Instruction
Computing Services                         916/752-5554
U.C. Davis
Davis, CA 95616


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Date: Wed,  7 Aug 91 09:08:24 PDT
From: keng at ic.MENTORG.COM (Ken Giles)
Subject: Re: more brewpot queries

In HBD 696, Mal Card says:
>  At the risk of beating a subject to death, I would much appreciate 
>  further clarification re: 5 gallon boiler for all grain brewing. 
>
>  I do realize you can't squeeze 6.5 gallons of wort into a 5 gallon 
>  boiler (too messy) BUT, rather than make a sizable investment for an 
>  8 gallon brewpot, my thought was to only boil ~ 4 gallons and dilute 
>  it in either the primary or secondary vessel with boiled and chilled 
>  water, bringing it up to 5 gallons - very similar to my extract 
>  method. 
>
>  Am I missing something? 

Yes. The problem with large wort volumes when making all-grain beer is a result
of the sparging process. Unfortunately, the sparging process won't allow the
production of a concentrated wort, unless you are willing to leave a
considerable amount of extract behind in the grain. Extracting the maximum 
amount of sugars in the sparge will require you to sparge until the runnings
reach a specific gravity of 6 or lower. This requires a certain amount of sparge
water, and when you add this to the volume of water used in the mash, you'll
always come out with a volume greater than the target beer volume. Mashing and
sparging for five gallons of beer will give you a preboil wort volume of greater
than 5 gallons (typically 6.5).

British brewers would sometimes split their mash in half, collecting the first
runnings for a strong beer and collecting the final runnings for a mild. I 
suppose you could go that route. Before I got a kettle suitable for 10 gallon
batches, I would collect all the runnings in my 48 quart picnic cooler (yes, to
the brim) and then divide it and the hops among three kettles (two on my double
propane burner system and one on the stove). After the boil, I would chill each
pot, put the chilled wort back into the cooler, mix in the yeast, and divide
into two carboys for fermentation. Needless to say, it wasn't long before I
invested in the proper size kettle. A 33 quart ceramic-on-steel pot can be had
for $25 at restaurant supply stores.

kg.

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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 12:38:21 -0400
From: strasser at raj5.tn.cornell.edu (Tom Strasser)
Subject: Real Life Dry Hopping Efficiencies


A few comments on errors when converting formula to real life dry
hopping:

In HBD 696
> From: srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu (Stephen Russell)
>
> After much calculation involving the partial differential
> equations for fluid-type flow in a kitchen-type environment under
> brewing-type conditions, we were able to derive the following
> formula for the efficiency of dry-hopping:

> E = [F - (a/A)] * exp(-n) + (a/A)
>
     It seems to me that this formula does not lend itself to real
life dry hopping.  I agree with the limits you have established,
however the rate of decay, me thinks, might vary considerably in
real life situations.  For this reason, I suggest that the
exponential term in the equation be changed to a product of n and a
new variable, Tau, which a measure of a brewers tolerance (e.g.
including body weight, drinking experience, sex, and altitude above
sea level).  Tau would be directly proportional to the brewers
tolerance, and as a guess, it would be equal to the 0.36788 times
the number of beers it takes to get the brewer so twisted he/she
will randomly dry hop the entire kitchen.
     I think this addition would be of great help in using this
equation to correctly predict hopping efficiencies in real life
situations.


> Units have been left off for the purposes of obfuscation.

Of course, I've never known a scientist yet who would willingly
submit himself to the scrutiny of unit analysis.


> Does this sound about right to you folks?  Sure hope this helps
> in some small way to the general improvement of brewing as we
> know it.

Well, it didn't sound right to me!  What do you think now?


> However, this is not quite true in practice due to uncontrollable
> muscle spasms, unexpected crosswinds, large, mutated hop-eating
> cockroaches that often appear in a brewer's kitchen, and the

Has the idea of brewery clean been lost amongst the Father
Barleywines (no offense) of homebrewing?


>   Rather than immediately query the readers of this esteemed
> Digest (one or more of whom may in all reality be Darryl Richman)

Wait a minute, I thought srussell at snoopy was Darryl?


>Long live the IBUs

Dittos


Auf ein neues,
Tom Strasser.....strasser at raj5.tn.cornell.edu.....strasser at CRNLMSC3

P.S. Is it true that Darryl Richman is now, or will soon be, an IBU?

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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 09:43:14 PDT
From: 6500keil%ucsbuxa at hub.ucsb.edu (Robert N Keil)
Subject: Newsgroup


   I've noticed that this mailing list gets a lot of traffic (which is great!).
Has anyone ever considered creating a newsgroup about homebrew?  I would think
that this would make replying/reading all the posts a bit easier.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
     Robert Keil               |   Graduate school...
     6500keil at ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu |   Steadily worse living 
     Dept Chem, UCSB           |     through chemistry

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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 09:51:49 PDT
From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Reusing yeast

Two professional brewers in Seattle have mentioned that using the yeast off
the secondary is the way to go for getting good healthy yeast cells.  But,
you might have to build up the amount before reusing.

I have a system that works well with ale yeasts, and in particular, with
Wyeast 1056: Primary ferment for 5 days at a controlled 65-72f.  Rack and
condition in the fridge at 45f to 40f for 8 days.  Bottle.  Carefully pour
the yeast into a starter bottle (32 oz) with some starter wort to make about
20-26 oz of fluid.  Set at room temperature.  It should be ready for a new
batch by the next day (or 2 at the most).  

Temperature shock?  Not really a problem so far. 


- -------------------

Don't mess with John Polstra - Seattle's techno-brewer.

Norm Hardy


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 in the interest of safety, from ...

   John Polstra               polstra!jdp at uunet.uu.net
   Polstra & Co., Inc.           ...!uunet!polstra!jdp
   Seattle, Washington USA              (206) 932-6482
   "Self-knowledge is always bad news."  -- John Barth

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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 13:46:53 EDT
From: SERETNY%uhavax.dnet at uhasun.hartford.edu
Subject: Singha and other things....

 
wbt at cbema.att.com writes:

> Coincidentally, a friend of mine, in a telephone call Sunday night, 
> mentioned discovering a bar in Chicago which served Guinness on tap.
> He marvelled that it took several minutes to pour the beer, because of the
> foaming, and asked me what that meant.  
 
> Several possibilities dawned on me, including the "new keg" foaminess
> mentioned here, but he assured me that he'd investigated for a sufficiently
> long time to see the keg well on its way toward emptiness. 8-)
 
> Also, his description of the flavor didn't match with my own very well,
> giving me to wonder if this bar might be serving the *real* draught Guinness 
> as found in Ireland (it *is* an Irish pub).

	It's not the real Guinness (as I had in Ireland).  Ironically, there's more
alcohol in the U.S. version (not by much).  The Irish version is pure velvet -
it was all I drank in Eire.  (not that Smithwicks is a bad ale, but Guinness is
SOOOOO good over there -- forget Harp Lager).  To my knowledge, there are no
Guinness breweries in America, which makes getting an unpasteurized product
very difficult (impossible).  Too bad...  Irish Guinness is to die for -- I
can't drink the U.S. product at all (draught or bottled).
 
 
t13329 at Calvin.EDU (Percy) writes:
 
 > Re: the Singha beer - I don't believe it's Indian. I know of a couple
 > of Indian beers you can get at import stores - one is called UB
 > (united breweries) and the other one is Kingfisher which I recommend.
 > It's bloody expensive though.

	Singha is Siamese (Thai), and when fresh, quite good.  


				Robert M. Seretny

emails: seretny%uhavax.dnet at uhasun.hartford.edu


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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 13:29 MTS
From: Chuck Coronella <CORONELLRJDS at CHE.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Whitbred Ale yeast

bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss) experienced a phenomenon that I 
experienced, just last week.


> it off after I got a few more hours shuteye.  Alas, the whitbread
> ale yeast I used took off so rapidly that the vigorous fermentation
> stirred up the sediment, and was producing so much CO2 that
> my siphon didin't hold a vacuum long anyway.
> .
> .
> .
> On the subject of whitbread ale yeast, has anyone noticed a
> similarity in behavior between it and M & F ale yeast?

I brewed a cherry ale ~10 days ago, into which I pitched rehydrated Whitbred 
Ale Yeast.  Within three hours, I had active fermentation, and within 12 
hours, I had explosive fermentation.  It was fermenting so vigorously that 
the lid was actually lifted off of my plastic bucket; that's a lid that I
have some difficulty removing by hand.  (I know, I shouldn't use a plastic 
bucket- I usually use a glass carboy, but had no way to get the cherries 
through such a narrow neck.)  Good God, what a mess- cherries pieces all 
over the kitchen!! Anyway, I was able to salvage the beer, and transferred 
it to a (glass) secondary 36 hours after pitching.  The gravity had gone 
from 1.065 to 1.017 in 36 hours!!  Five days later, I bottled it; the 
gravity was still 1.017.

I thought that this experience was probably due to the cherries, but now, 
I'm beginning to wonder.  Is Whitbred selling a new, mutant, over-achieving,
quick-starting yeast?  I saved some of the yeast (from the secondary) and 
will probably use it again in a more traditional ale.  I'll definitely brew 
it in a glass carboy equipped with a what-cha-ma-call-it hose off the top 
into a waiting receptacle.

What do y'all think?

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Date: Tue, 06 Aug 91 18:52:49 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Toxic Homebrew


Re: Martin Lodahl's concerns

The statement "Homebrew can't make you sick!", isn't true.
The statement that beer yeasts don't produce toxic substances is true.
The difference being that there are bacteria that can spoil not only beer that
is fermenting, but even beer that has fermented already (ie these bacteria are
resistant to the growth deterring effect of alcohol, in fact some thrive by
reducing alcohol such as acetic acid bacteria).

Fortunately for the judge these same bacteria produce nasally and often visually
(gushing, rings) apparent signs of their presence.

My question is why as a judge would you taste anything that was such obvious
symptoms of contamination. As a rule I will not score a beer that has obvious
contamination. I simply note the contamination, try to identify it fro mit's
aroma then move on. Being a beer judge may have it's responsibilities, but the
"taste at all cost" philosophy doesn't do anybody any good. Sick judges don't
judge welland risk their health, and drinking contaminated beer put contest 
organizers at risk of liability. 

Have you gotten sick from beers without obvious signs of contamination??

I would strongly advise any judges out there to let their nose be their guide.
If a beer smells (or with gushers looks) obviously contaminated, approach with
caution!!

 - Jay H


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Date: Tue, 06 Aug 91 19:10:43 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Damn Lies & PPM


Sorry, to me it looks like John Polstra wins hands down on this one...



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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 14:16:34 -0600
From: dinsdale at chtm.eece.unm.edu (Don McDaniel)
Subject: Sparging Bags


Mel asks if it wouldn't be better to have a sparging bag with solid
sides and a mesh bottom.  Indeed it would.  Miller (the author, not the
alleged beer) recommends a bag with muslin sides and mesh bottom.
I thought I might make such a thing, but then found one at me local
brew supply store.  It has a drawstring top which secures it to
the bucket and is sized for a five-gallon food pail.  I added one
of those little spring-loaded cord locks you can buy in backpacking
stores to the drawstring.  The bag cost $7.95 I think.  That beats 
making your own.  If you can't find suck a bag at your local store,
call The Grape Arbor in Albuquerque and ask for Victor.  I'm sure
he'd be glad to mail you one.  505/883-0000.

Don McDaniel

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Date: Wed, 07 Aug 91 16:20:17 EDT
From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Help Wanted at Homebrew Store (Boston Area)


Sorry to suck up bandwidth, but this is about the only way to get at the 
proper audience. My friend, Jeff Pzena, owner of The Modern Brewer
(Massachusetts Ave., near Porter Square, Cambridge, Mass.) has found himself in 
the unenviable position of losing his primary employee. He is seeking someone
knowledgeable in homebrewing to replace him. Actually I think he is looking for
2 people, one full time, another part time, but a knowledge of at least the
basics of homebrewing is a pre-requisite for the job. I don't know what the pay
is, but the hours are approximately (they vary based on the day) Noon-7PM.
The store is open 6 days a week, but I think the full time slot is only for
5 of those, the part time provides coverage for the full timers day off, and
busy days (ie weekends I think).

If you want more info call 1-800-SEND-ALE, or locally 868-5580.

Please call the above number, no e-mail inquiries. Thanks for your indulgence.

		JaH

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
assume that you are moderate in everything.
you now have an eXcess of moderation, a contradiction.

eXcessiveness is clearly the way to go...


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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 13:44:40 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Singha..

Singha is Thai.

I enjoy it -- especially with bitchin' spicy Thai food. A clean pilsner with
a pronounced hop edge which helps remove some of the heat :-).

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Date: Wed Aug 07 12:53:25 1991
From: microsoft!larryba at cs.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Malt aromas and DMS

In #695, Darryl Richman, referencing George Fixx, indicates that DMS is a
primary distinction between Ales and Lagers w/re to secondary flavor
components.

My question is, why?  What is different that causes the DMS to hang around
the lagers much more than Ales?  I have done 8 ales and 4 lagers (the last is
still fermenting so make that 3 data points) and the lagers have always had
dms smell (creamed corn) that dissapates quickly one the head has formed.  My
Ales have *never* had this smell.

Is it the high temperature vigorous ferment that causes the difference (blowing
more DMS off)?  Or is it a function of the metabolism of the yeast used?
Lager yeast sure smell different when fermenting!  I have made a lager using
English Pale Ale and single step infusion mashes - that one (this is from
memory because my notes are not in front of me) had the strongest DMS aroma,
so it doesn't seem to be a related to using "lager" malts...




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Date: Wed Aug 07 10:45:23 1991
From: microsoft!larryba at cs.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Suitable refrigerators

In HBD #695, Mike McNally inquires about refers for fermenting.

I am successfully using an old 18cf Sears frost free refer (with freezer on
top). The price was right: free if I hauled it away. I have a hunter energy
monitor, but fiddling with the thermostat was easy enough to do.  The only
advantage with the hunter is easy setting of temp and less cycling of the
compressor (less electricity and longer life).  To fudge the built in
thermostat, dissasemble it.  There are a couple of adjustment screws that can
be used to set the proper range.

I don't use the freezer section other than to store glasses/bottles before
filling with beer. To make it more efficient I used plastic boxing tape to
modify the ducting to direct more cold air into the main refer portion.  I
store filled bottles on the door.

I have three cobra taps set in the side.  I can have three firestone kegs in
it + a 7.5 gal carboy.  I ferment, lager, store and delivery at 48f with
reasonable results.  Also a week at 48f for newly kegged ales really cleans/
clears them up nicely.

Since the floor isn't flat, I cobbed up a false bottom (short shelf - plywood
board with another board on one side as a leg) to set the carboy on.  The
kegs fit just fine without the false bottom.  There is no room for shelfs.

In other words, just about anything will do.  Skip those dorm friges.  they
are too small (my brew buddy has one and the carboy + airlock doesn't fit)
and are suitable only for delivery of one keg.

If I had more room, I would get a second refer to handle lagering of multiple
beers.  Having room for only one carboy is my critical path in making lagers!


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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 13:39:46 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: sparge apparatus [was: more brewpot queries]

On Tue, 6 Aug 91 09:17:17 EDT , card at apollo.hp.com said:

card> But what keeps the water from channeling through to the sides 
card> leaving the sweet wort trapped in the middle?  He calls for 
card> an all mesh bag but wouldn't it make more sense to have a bag 
card> with solid sides and mesh only at the bottom? 

You're right about the mesh bag -- the water does tend to run out of the
sides and avoid the middle. I haven't seen (tho I haven't looked too hard)
sparge bags with non-porous sides.

Here are two things that work for me:

One of my mash/lauter tuns is a cylindrical 5-gallon cooler made by Gott. I
found at an Asian store a large plastic collander just big enough to fit snugly
down in the bottom of the cooler. This is great for 5-gallon batches of
not-too-heavy beer; a heavy bock would probably not fit. 

The second is a 54 quart rectangular cooler, Igloo or something. I've made
a 4-pipe drainage thingy out of 1/2" copper pipe which I slotted half way
through every 1/2" inch or so, and soldered them up with 2 elbows and three
Ts; it is coupled to the tap with a couple inches of plastic hose. I use
this for my double batch mashes and it gives me a sufficient grain bed
depth. It's not hard to build one -- certainly easier than drilling a
zillion 16th inch holes -- but make sure you use silver solder to avoid the
lead.

On both, I replaced the push button valve with a drum tap thing.

PS: Through the miracle of ASCII graphics, a diagram of the plumbing:

      /================			[]	drum tap
      |					|=	T
      |================			\=	elbow
 []--=|					==	slotted pipe
      |================			--	plastic hose
      |
      \================			


PPS: re your real question about 5 gallon boils: you could use 2 5-gallon
pots, or do like I did and cut a hole in the top of a keg (LOUD!)

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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 13:07:13 CDT
From: quinnt at turing.med.ge.com (Tom Quinn 5-4291)
Subject: Yeast Lifetime Expectancy

One discussion I have not seen during the last eight months since I
began receiving this digest is about yeast lifetime expectancy.  To
frame my questions, I'll describe my current situation.  Let me
preface this with the fact that my brewing opportunities have been
limited in recent months, so I've had yeast laying around unused much
longer than I had expected.

A few months back I brewed what was easily my finest batch.  At the
recommendation of several HBD readers I used a liquid yeast for the
first time, and was pleased enough with the results to culture another
starter from a bottle to use in my next batch, which also turned out
fine.  The other night, I tried again to get a starter going from a
bottle from that first liquid yeast batch, boiling up a small amount
of wort and being as sanitary as possible.  After several days it
became obvious that this starter was going nowhere (there was
absolutely no activity).  I made up another wort, poured in the yeast
dregs from another bottle, and waited again, with the same non-
results.

Could the yeast in the beer have been too old to make a starter from?
That batch had been in the bottle about four months.  Is it possible
that some storage conditions could have affected the yeast - we had a
lot of hot weather around here earlier in the summer.  I realize that
my technique of starting the culture could also be at fault, but I'm
interested in learning how long yeast remain alive but dormant in a
beer.

Also, I have a few packets of dried yeast I had bought before my
conversion to liquid yeast.  These are over four months old, and I
wonder how they are affected by age.  On those dried yeasts that are
marked with dates, how meaningful are they?  Can these be stored for
long periods of time (> 6 months)?  Are there optimal storage
conditions for dried yeast?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Tom

===========================================================================
 Tom Quinn		  ||
 Consultant at		  || uucp: {uunet!crdgw1|sun!sunbrew}!gemed!quinnt
 G.E. Medical Systems	  || internet: quinnt at gemed.ge.com
 Milwaukee, WI 53201-414  ||
===========================================================================

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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 21:13:42 EDT
From: gozer!klm at uunet.UU.NET (Kevin L. McBride)
Subject: Re: New edition of Papazian's book due out soon.

Dave Shaver <shaver at orion.convex.com> writes:

>Although this may not be news to everyone, Charlie Papazian has the
>second edition of his "The Complete Joy of Home Brewing" due out soon.

Yeah, I know.  Charlie himself told me at the AHA conference.  He
said, with a devilish smirk on his face, that it would have TWO
indices.

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

- --
Kevin

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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 21:19:26 EDT
From: gozer!klm at uunet.uu.net (Kevin L. McBride)
Subject: Re: Singha

I've had this beer before at a Thai restaurant.  It is a southeast
asian beer and may, in fact, be made in Thailand.  It's been a while
since I've had it.

Hey, that gives me a great excuse to go back to that Thai place!!!

Pretty good beer, BTW.  A nice malty pilsner with a creamy head.

- -- 
Kevin

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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 13:25:12 PDT
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM>
Subject: Yet More on Bux & Brewpubs

I hate to sound like a shill for this, but the catalog for the
upcoming U. C. Davis Extension classes is out, and it lists:

	_Brewpubs_and_Microbreweries:__Business_and_Brewing_
	  Saturday & Sunday, October 26 & 27, 9AM to 4PM
$260 includes course material, one dinner, and a beer tasting. 
Pre-enroll by October 18 in Section 912E700.  For more information
or to enroll (using plastic), call 1-800-752-0881 (or, in Davis or
Dixon, 757-8777).

The class will be presented in the Extension portion of the U. C.
Davis campus, California.  I attended it in June, and feel it has
important information for anyone thinking of starting up such a
business, who does NOT have a solid business background.  The
emphasis is not on brewing.

= Martin A. Lodahl   			Pacific*Bell Systems Analyst =
= malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM       Sacramento, CA       916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  8-)   =


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Date: Wed, 7 Aug 91 11:05:39 EDT
From: wbt at cbema.att.com
Subject: Hop Honey

Sean Conway mentions his impending hop harvest, noting:
 
> Also, I don't "see" any of the oils or resins characteristics of
> hops, just the orange pollen.

reminding me that hops are flowers.  Unfortunately, I've forgotten what I
learned in my high school plant sexuality class 8-) so I'm not certain...
as only the female hop plants are grown, do they still generate the nectar
that attracts bees ? (My guess is "yes.")

If they do, I wonder if anyone's ever tried putting a beehive in the middle
of a hop field to get "hop honey," and then used that to make a honey beer
or mead.

Though I do get this image of green-hued honey that's a bit
unappetizing... well, you could sell it on St. Patrick's Day. 8-)

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker	AT&T Network Systems - Columbus      wbt at cbnews.att.com



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #697, 08/08/91
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